Tungi questionFollow

It increases Double Attack Rate when used in conjunction with Life Belt Gloves and Tungi Sushi.

Tungi actually refers to the old old Irish leprechaun legend. Where the young green fitted boy spotted a fine lass at the end of a fabulous rainbow. But, alas, he only came to realize his two drinks wore off on the journey to the end of the rainbow and she wasn't so fine after all...

But honestly, it's a good axe to have.

Let me apologize. The Double Effect, Life Belt Gloves, and Tungi Sushi are an old joke about the Tungi. Way back in the day, people swore up and down that it increased double attack rates, but no actual evidence was produced. It became such a thing that people started to make things up about it. Much like "I got it from Taisai," what I said became the impromptu answer to the question.
That's not entirely true. For a dual wield build (And yes, I am going there.), the low delay and moderate base damage makes it a useful offhand weapon.

i forgot it was such a low level. though nowadays, i think you'd want to use this, though they hilariously have it drop from a treasure casket in an area juuuuuust too high for 1st jobbers to go get it. anyway, yeah, forgot. i'll leave GA onry argument for someone else to make.

Retards happened.

I am not calling anybody in this thread a retard, but retards happened all the same.

I REFUSE TO MIX COKE IN MY DRINKS


I feel ashamed, again and again
With nothing to give, and no one to blame
During the daaaaaaayyyyyyy, I guess I'm okay.

Edited, Feb 9th 2010 1:33am by Redshift

i am irish. i don't see how giving the correct answer to someone not getting the jokes is playing devil's advocate though.

people have been accusing me of playing devil's advocate irl as of late, i'm not sure what that's about. i'm not sure i fully understand the phrase... if there's a legitimate doubt to be raised, it's not contrarian or "devil's advocate-y" to raise it. on the internet... i wouldn't say i so much play devil's advocate, rather i troll. i try to be subtle about it though. all the math posts help.

Since the thread was starting to take a turn away from the OP's intent (which all threads do eventually), and you actually being on point, was the opposite of what I have come to expect (ie devil's advocate). It was a joke in the fact that you weren't one of the first one's on bored the derail and you usually are. So you must have been "upset"(joke) since someone stole your thunder and went the route of responding correctly out of "spite"; and thus putting the thread back on track.

Devil's advocate just refers to going against the consensus, the consensus was shifting from on point topic to off point topic in my estimation.


Edited, Feb 9th 2010 1:26pm by doctorugh

A Devil's Advocate is someone who takes a position they do not agree with for the sake of argument or discourse. If they are implying that you agree with the position, they are using the term incorrectly.

Hrmmm....perhaps he has run out of quality beers to try and is discouraged.
I suggest one, but thats kind of like asking Jay Leno if he wants to ride my bicycle. Maybe i should just agrue with him about some inane thing....that might do the trick. Also, polearm is mostly a fad for warriors. I'm just waiting for it to curl up and die like dual axes. Damn you SE, make the exp/merit choice mobs a bit variable, and cooler looking. Pink birds? Really?

1) thanks for explaining the "steal your thunder" line, b/c i genuinely didn't understand it, and now i do. not as offensive as i'd vaguely assumed.

2) yeah, it seems people use devil's advocate to mean irl contrarian troll to perpetuate spirited (read: people get offended) conversation, or to argue for things you don't mean. the latter one more often, but that's the one i don't understand (trolling i understand). say i have a theory, like that thoughts can't consist in mental states that are themselves representations of the world analogous to human language. in fact, i do have that theory (human language involves social conventions and, more to the point, purpose; a sentence gets its meaning from how it's *used*, but that's categorically different than what language of thought theorists--and i assume most cognitive scientists--task the representations that mental states are supposed to be to do).

however, in order to argue for my point, it is essential that i make the strongest arguments i can for language of thought or "mentalese". of course i don't believe in it, but in a sense i don't believe its opposite either as long as i can still form arguments (though i do "think its opposite is true" at least). belief (and even certainty) never presuppose that you can't take seriously a counterargument, or at least they shouldn't (and 'belief' is a word used for all sorts of different things).

i guess i find it odd when people say i'm playing devil's advocate b/c i raise issues. people try to attribute these issues to me like they're my eye color or something, but i'm not pretending to hold these views. i'm also attentive to ideas and conversation enough to know when the questions themselves rest on possibly fallacious presuppositions. in fact, *my whole training* as a student centered around locating such presuppositions and questioning them. so it's not like i "tip my hand" by raising an issue, ie illustrate presuppositions that someone doesn't believe i really have (which would be playing devil's advocate). we find every branch and possibility and hammer it out. most presuppositions themselves are only used to employ hypothetical reasoning.

i believe in very little, and am pretty open and demonstrative about it. it's strange to me when people start to lump me in with brainwashed fundamentalists or some other group when i raise an argument to their point or worldview.

in short, i get what devil's advocate is supposed to mean, but i don't think there's a clear distinction b/w arguing a position you "don't believe" and raising possible counterarguments. it's especially sticky when so much human argument really is coming from a place similar to eye color; so-and-so argues that this-or-that war is just *because of how they identify themselves and make the world make sense*. if i pretended to do that, would i be devil's advocate? or is that too strong a definition; is it simply devil's advocate to offer a counterargument in the interest of rigor? if so, weird phrase. judging from the reactions i get when people think i'm playing the devil's advocate (frustrated, "come on, you don't REALLY believe that do you??" ["no i don't, stupid, have you ever tried rationality?"]), i don't think the latter definition is usually the operative one.

3) doctorugh, i'm not sure what the jay leno comment meant, but i ALWAYS am interested in someone's beer recommendations. there's tons of beer in the world, and really i think knowing that someone loves something (or at least likes it) makes a beer more interesting than just seeing it on a shelf or knowing its style/brewing history/whatever. i always appreciate beer recommendations, even if it turns out that i've tried whatever the person is suggesting many times.

edit: stuff.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 1:48am by milich

This is the reason I decided that warrior would be my first job.
A real warrior.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 7:16am by doctorugh

That's pretty much the case for most good weapons (and armor). By the time you (yourself - solo) could get the weapon, it's already less useful.

Axe selection sucks in the 60's. Sirrocco Axe gives you a good mainhand axe so you can offhand Tungi until 63. Then you'd just use Sirrocco/Fran for the rest of the 60's (unless I missed something) So in reality, it can last you 10 levels, if you're dual wielding axes that is. It just makes Tungi a lot less useful than it once was in an era where Tungi is already a lot less useful than it once was.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 9:04am by LordMnementh

i love you, spartacus.

Agreed. I'm using Franny/Sirocco on 65BST now until Acha D'armas at 68 (yes, I actually camped that thing back in the day lol...)

So I just kind of walked away from this thread after a few post but damn.

Honestly, I hate /NIN sub. I find it worthless and love /SAM. I only have been using dual wield Axes to keep skill capped. I don't want crap weapons in either build and happened to get Tungi one day out of boredom. I remembered the rumors of double attack hidden effect and was curious if it was disproven yet.

It was proven to not exist.

New warrior tanking status has been grapevined to me through people in the know.

#1) While equiping shield, warrior get a +10 enmity bonus

#2) Defender grants a 40% damage reduction that decays over the course of the JA. (down to 0%???)

#3) Lastly, but not leastly; Tungi's hidden effect has been released:
While defender is up, Crit rate is +30% and also can randomly intimidate (any mob???)