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#1 Aug 03 2009 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hi

Apologies if this has been covered before but i have read back through the posts and i can't see anything

So my question is: on Gaxe would it be worth while to go for to 2 x +5 dex rings(cant remember the name of them sorry) vs snipers rings.

Please correct me if im wrong but you would get 7 acc out of plus 10 dex and i think it would alter my crit ratio aswell

So id be dropping 3 acc for an in increased crit rate

I can get the acc back if needs be by switching from tarasque +1 to thick mufflers and switching out potent belt for Life

Will going with this significantly increase my DoT or am i best of staying with snipers

(If anyones knows the formula for working out crit ratio please let me know)

Thanks for reading




Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 10:50am by silksmiler

Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 10:51am by silksmiler
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#2 Aug 03 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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The only ring with DEX you should even be considering is Rajas Ring. Honestly, the increase in crit % is negligible and is dependant on what you're fighting anyway.

Stick with the Sniper's.
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#3 Aug 03 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the info

I was mulling it over on the weekend and it was one of those semi plausible ideas where i thought it could possibly be worth doing

Snipers it is :)
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#4 Aug 03 2009 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
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Sure no worries.

Best of luck with your WARing!
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#5 Aug 03 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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This reminds me of the thread going on over at BG where they're discussing RR vs KJ. People sub in +DEX gear for their RR sets (lolMax?)

Thread
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#6 Aug 03 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Default
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Dont be hating on my Iota Ring :(

I also Pair it with Hollow Earring giving me 6 accuracy 5 DEX

Would you wear a ring with 6 acc? : Why not.
Would you wear a earring with 5 DEX?: Sure as hell would :O

My content IDs are cancelled so I dont remember exactly but my TP build did have around 40 DEX or so. The crit rate is nice on birds but hell on tougher sh*t its not too notice-able.

Edited, Aug 3rd 2009 5:04pm by Skarwind
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The best way to farm cocks is as Thf or with /thf. You start off sneaking up behind the cock and sneak attack it, sneak attack makes sure you end up hitting the cock from behind as hard as you can.

After that just start whacking the cock. Be careful though, the more you whack the cock the more likely to hit you with one of its nasty attacks. The last thing you want while you're face to face with a big cock is to end up


#7 Aug 03 2009 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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Because I could wear a ACC+7 ring and ACC+2/ATK+5 earring?
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#8 Aug 03 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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You could buy some cheap +4dex rings and hope to get acc on it from elite training.
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#9 Aug 03 2009 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Skyra wrote:
You could buy some cheap +4dex rings and hope to get acc on it from elite training.
Or you could stop sucking an use proper rings?
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#10 Aug 03 2009 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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Because everyone can afford Toreaders :)

(Aimed at Redshift)
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Quote:
The best way to farm cocks is as Thf or with /thf. You start off sneaking up behind the cock and sneak attack it, sneak attack makes sure you end up hitting the cock from behind as hard as you can.

After that just start whacking the cock. Be careful though, the more you whack the cock the more likely to hit you with one of its nasty attacks. The last thing you want while you're face to face with a big cock is to end up


#11 Aug 03 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Iota's really not that bad when I think about it. Next to Toreadors/Sniper+1, it's probably a wash between Ulthalam and Iota.
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bsphil wrote:
I suppose I could also call it "smallifying numberitude" but that sounds incredibly gay. Like, milich youtube playlist gay.
#12 Aug 03 2009 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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I'd use DEX +5 rings over ACC +5 rings on a 2h job if I were sitting at 40-ish DEX over the mob's AGI. I'd definitely take 10%-ish more crits over 3 ACC.
#13 Aug 03 2009 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
I'd use DEX +5 rings over ACC +5 rings on a 2h job if I were sitting at 40-ish DEX over the mob's AGI. I'd definitely take 10%-ish more crits over 3 ACC.


? Elaborate plz?
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bsphil wrote:
I suppose I could also call it "smallifying numberitude" but that sounds incredibly gay. Like, milich youtube playlist gay.
#14 Aug 03 2009 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
Caesura wrote:
I'd use DEX +5 rings over ACC +5 rings on a 2h job if I were sitting at 40-ish DEX over the mob's AGI. I'd definitely take 10%-ish more crits over 3 ACC.


? Elaborate plz?
it's believed (with quite fat evidence to back it up) that when the delta-DEX(the difference between your DEX minus Mob AGI) is 50+ your critical hit reach the cap(proved to be 20%)

The thing is that critical hit rate progression works oddly, it is neither an straight or an exponential curve, as far as the current test goes it will grow from 5% to 10% from delta-DEX = 1 to delta-DEX =40 (from here the legendary +8 DEX ~= +1% Critical hit)

However from delta-DEX=41 until delta-DEX=50 the ratio change dramatically, becoming +1% Critical for each DEX point, from there the statement in Caesura's post.

Many jobs and job/race combos can not reach delta-DEX over 40 w/o losing more than winning in the trade for a heavy DEX build, however for Thf's and Nin's (particularly Mithras) there are certain merits camps where these builds may work.

I hope it helps.

Ken.
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#15 Aug 03 2009 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Many jobs and job/race combos can not reach delta-DEX over 40 w/o losing more than winning in the trade for a heavy DEX build

Sorry that I wasn't more clear about the DEX/AGI stuff -- I thought it was common knowledge now. I'm actually not a WAR so there may be variables here I'm not familiar with, but I know that my hume SAM is very close to +40 on Colibri without even trying, and a WAR can wear the same Hauby +1, Askar gloves and hat, and Byakko's Haidate that give my SAM most of his DEX. It has occurred to me that if I ever got a Rajas and a Cuchulain's Mantle I'd be at the point where more DEX would start getting me huge crit gains.
#16 Aug 03 2009 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
Caesura wrote:
I'd use DEX +5 rings over ACC +5 rings on a 2h job if I were sitting at 40-ish DEX over the mob's AGI. I'd definitely take 10%-ish more crits over 3 ACC.


? Elaborate plz?
it's believed (with quite fat evidence to back it up) that when the delta-DEX(the difference between your DEX minus Mob AGI) is 50+ your critical hit reach the cap(proved to be 20%)

The thing is that critical hit rate progression works oddly, it is neither an straight or an exponential curve, as far as the current test goes it will grow from 5% to 10% from delta-DEX = 1 to delta-DEX =40 (from here the legendary +8 DEX ~= +1% Critical hit)

However from delta-DEX=41 until delta-DEX=50 the ratio change dramatically, becoming +1% Critical for each DEX point, from there the statement in Caesura's post.

Many jobs and job/race combos can not reach delta-DEX over 40 w/o losing more than winning in the trade for a heavy DEX build, however for Thf's and Nin's (particularly Mithras) there are certain merits camps where these builds may work.

I hope it helps.

Ken.
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Edited, Aug 4th 2009 3:23am by Lucinus
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#17 Aug 04 2009 at 2:55 AM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
Sorry that I wasn't more clear about the DEX/AGI stuff -- I thought it was common knowledge now.
Like how enmity works? Unfortunately, what should be common sense people just don't want to take the time to get at least a little understanding of, yannow?

As an aside, I don't think I'd spend the money for +5 DEX rings just for the sake of Colibri. 600,000~700,000 (each) just for one camp seems like a waste. 'course, if you're just sitting on an ever expanding bank roll (Dunno how, with how Square likes to eliminate ways of making money...), then I can see it.
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#18 Aug 04 2009 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Caesura wrote:
Quote:
Many jobs and job/race combos can not reach delta-DEX over 40 w/o losing more than winning in the trade for a heavy DEX build

Sorry that I wasn't more clear about the DEX/AGI stuff -- I thought it was common knowledge now. I'm actually not a WAR so there may be variables here I'm not familiar with, but I know that my hume SAM is very close to +40 on Colibri without even trying, and a WAR can wear the same Hauby +1, Askar gloves and hat, and Byakko's Haidate that give my SAM most of his DEX. It has occurred to me that if I ever got a Rajas and a Cuchulain's Mantle I'd be at the point where more DEX would start getting me huge crit gains.
Cae, I believe that scenario is quite hard to reach.

Greater Colibries have 67 AGI(both versions lvl 81 and 82) and Hume samurai at 75 has 69 Dex(Same as war)

To reach the 40+ sweet spot you need at least +39 Dex

Askar Head: +4
Askar Hands: +5
Byakko: +15
Hauby +1: +6
Rajas: +5
Chuchulain: +4

Total: 39, to get just delta-DEX = 41, changing your second ring for a Dex +5 will get you to 46 which is actually a desired scenario, however we can't say that Hauby +1 and Chuchulain are common items, for that matter many guys are still missing byakko, but thank you for the info regardless, I never considered reach the sweet critic +% with War before.

Sincerely.

Ken.


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#19 Aug 04 2009 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm in my case well

Askar Head: +4
Askar Hands: +5
Byakko: +15
Hauby +1: +6
Rajas: +5
Aurum Feet: +3
Hollow Earring +2
Iota Ring+3


That puts me at +43

Personally I like the extra critical hits on my WAR, but accuracy is also another reason I prefer my Iota/Hollow combo. Thats 32.25 Accuracy alone from DEX with 2 handed weapons. +36 (+41 if I had a PCC) From Gear/Perdu Axe alone. I might be missing attack from Assault Earring/ToA Ring/Dusk Gloves but I am not noticing the loss of it (+15 Attack added up). Nothing a little Meat/Bard Buffs wont fix anyways. Also I use a Bomb Core instead of the Fire Bomblet if anyone is wondering.

Edit: Was including my total gear set not just the 1 listed. Sorry for the confusion

Edited, Aug 5th 2009 1:58am by Skarwind
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The best way to farm cocks is as Thf or with /thf. You start off sneaking up behind the cock and sneak attack it, sneak attack makes sure you end up hitting the cock from behind as hard as you can.

After that just start whacking the cock. Be careful though, the more you whack the cock the more likely to hit you with one of its nasty attacks. The last thing you want while you're face to face with a big cock is to end up


#20 Aug 05 2009 at 12:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Skar, would you mind posting your entire gear set so I can check something? (Specifically, I think your gear is a little too heavy on accuracy at the expense of both attack and haste, but I'm not absolutely certain.)

Also, is EBody somewhere in your immediate future?
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#21 Aug 05 2009 at 12:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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An edit to waht Kenage said. The actual +crit rate doesn't start happening till dDex is over 20. Testing on the NIN forums about 1~2 (I forget) years ago pinned this down pretty well. From dDex=0 to dDex=19 you may get +%1, they couldn't nail it down exactly because the sample size would be have to be insane. But at dDex=20 and above there is a very large increase in crit rating, and then from 40 to 50 is the 1=1 we see. The only people other then THF and NIN who can reasonable hit that without sacrificing something is Adaberk WAR's.

Adaberk +10
Kitty Pants +15
Rajas +5
Askar hands +5
Askar head +4
Arum Feet +3
C.Mantle +4

is +46, if your Mithra you can drop the C.Mantle as you should already be at or near ~50.
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#22 Aug 05 2009 at 2:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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saevellakshmi wrote:
An edit to waht Kenage said. The actual +crit rate doesn't start happening till dDex is over 20. Testing on the NIN forums about 1~2 (I forget) years ago pinned this down pretty well. From dDex=0 to dDex=19 you may get +%1, they couldn't nail it down exactly because the sample size would be have to be insane. But at dDex=20 and above there is a very large increase in crit rating, and then from 40 to 50 is the 1=1 we see. The only people other then THF and NIN who can reasonable hit that without sacrificing something is Adaberk WAR's.

Adaberk +10
Kitty Pants +15
Rajas +5
Askar hands +5
Askar head +4
Arum Feet +3
C.Mantle +4

is +46, if your Mithra you can drop the C.Mantle as you should already be at or near ~50.

Thank you for the correction Saev, I wasn't aware about the first 20 points of delta-Dex(to be honest my fault I read about that long time ago should have kept up to date)

The think with adaberk Wars using a Dex build is the over cap in accuracy, unless you are dual-wielding the equipment you posted is far beyond the accuracy cap for colibries and a bit above mamool camp standard, not to mention that aggressor would be just a flashy icon in your screen since it will do almost nothing for your with that kind of set up.

Sadly(or fortunately depends on how you look at it) we War's have an important inconsistency with our accuracy, as your gear get better(like those able to reach 40+ values of delta-Dex) is more important to think about aggresor down/up sets to get the best of your gear, if you don't all your hard earned gear is doing much less than it could do for you.

Sincerely.

Ken.
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#23 Aug 05 2009 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
This reminds me of the thread going on over at BG where they're discussing RR vs KJ. People sub in +DEX gear for their RR sets (lolMax?)

Thread


Except then posts were made demonstrating that +dex helps crits on crit-based WS, just like it does regular melee attacks. That thread's terrible though, Starr prancing around like some sort of bridge-dweller in a tutu.
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#24 Aug 05 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Skar, would you mind posting your entire gear set so I can check something? (Specifically, I think your gear is a little too heavy on accuracy at the expense of both attack and haste, but I'm not absolutely certain.)

Also, is EBody somewhere in your immediate future?


Not at the moment on Ebody, I'm enlisting in the military so my playtime is suspended for awhile. I was doing Einherjar hard core but it never really worked out. Even though I play RNG and DRG alot mostly DRG at birds. I find this gear set on WAR useful for Mamools and higher end game mobs.

Most of my Acc/Dex is also coupled in with my Haste Items except for the Rings.

TP Build
Perdu Voulge/Pole(Will go to Rose Strap for /SAM) Bomb Core
Askar Head, Chiv Chain, Brutal Earring, Hollow Earring
Hauberk+1, Askar Hands, Rajas Ring, Iota Ring
Foragers Mantle, Swift Belt, Byakko's Haidate, Aurum Sabatons.

So 17% haste.
STR: +21
DEX: +43
Attack:49
Accuracy:+36

Aside from the secondary Earring/Ring Choice its a common build over all. Though I do carry my Turban/Dusk Gloves for Soul Voiced Zergs.
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Quote:
The best way to farm cocks is as Thf or with /thf. You start off sneaking up behind the cock and sneak attack it, sneak attack makes sure you end up hitting the cock from behind as hard as you can.

After that just start whacking the cock. Be careful though, the more you whack the cock the more likely to hit you with one of its nasty attacks. The last thing you want while you're face to face with a big cock is to end up


#25 Aug 05 2009 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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MithraDooom wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
This reminds me of the thread going on over at BG where they're discussing RR vs KJ. People sub in +DEX gear for their RR sets (lolMax?)

Thread


Except then posts were made demonstrating that +dex helps crits on crit-based WS, just like it does regular melee attacks. That thread's terrible though, Starr prancing around like some sort of bridge-dweller in a tutu.
No, just Starr's dick gets hard off any little thing.
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