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Dusk Feet Follow

#1 May 25 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I am at 17% haste in tp gear. But not capped acc in any camp, well maybe capped with aggressor up at birds.

4 acc vrs 2 haste.


I would think that a hypothtical 10 acc is definatly > 2 haste.

5 acc = 2 haste?


Question being i.e. Amir or Armada vrs Dusk close?? or 2 haste way better?

Just trying to determine if worth the gil.
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#2 May 25 2009 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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The easiest answer to this question is aurum.

It depends on your acc vs the mob in question and current total haste. Situational stuff is useful in various situations.

Edited, May 25th 2009 11:01pm by tresker
#3 May 25 2009 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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You'd be better off with Amir until you can get aurum, or if you're getting haste spell and march.
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#4 May 25 2009 at 8:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tyleron wrote:
I am at 17% haste in tp gear. But not capped acc in any camp, well maybe capped with aggressor up at birds.

4 acc vrs 2 haste.


I would think that a hypothtical 10 acc is definatly > 2 haste.

5 acc = 2 haste?


Question being i.e. Amir or Armada vrs Dusk close?? or 2 haste way better?

Just trying to determine if worth the gil.


first of all, a few easy to remember things to help decide such questions:

1) 1 ACC yields .5 ACC%, ie if your ACC is 75% without a sniper's ring (5ACC:P), it's 77.5% with a sniper's ring.

2) because of (1), as long as ACC doesn't cap, 2ACC is always > 1% DoT. why? because going from 94% to 95% ACC is more than a 1% increase (1/94 = 1.06%), though generally it's just about a 1% increase. if your ACC% is 50% (extremely low), 2ACC is a 2% DoT increase (1/50 = 2%).

3) at 50% total haste, 1% haste gives you 2% DoT.

---

so now take your hypothetical question: is 10 ACC > 2 haste? well, 10 ACC is 5 ACC%. 5 ACC% is > 5% DoT. 2 haste isn't > 4% DoT until your initial haste is 50%. therefore, you know (at least) that 10 ACC is going to win unless you have a ton of haste.

---

the table in this post (i think i'm quoting shintasama with it) can also lead you to the answer to your question. holy ****, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died. good luck with dusk decision and remember to consider haste spell and/or march(es).
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#5 May 25 2009 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Tyleron wrote:
Question being i.e. Amir or Armada vrs Dusk close?? or 2 haste way better?

Just trying to determine if worth the gil.
First things first, forget about Armada, it's a just a sink of money even if you can find cursed -1 which should be pretty rare these days.

However to judge Amir we need to look a bit deeper.

In your ideal merit situation with 35% Haste(Haste spell + MarchX2) and you current gear, your total haste sits at 42%, when you add 2% on top of that your DoT increases about ~3.57%

Now the pertinent question should be, when does accuracy +6 beats that? well if your current accuracy is lower than ~84% Amir will be better(84% to 87% is about 3.571% DoT) if you accuracy is higher then dusk will triumph.

However an interesting hint, if you aren't getting 35% haste from your back line dusk bonus drops under 3% DoT(2.97% with Haste and V.March) which means that 6 accuracy will be better on every non capped situation.

Ken.

P.D. I usually myself in more merit parties with MarchX2 and Haste than those without that's why I have always consider dusk worth.
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#6 May 25 2009 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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I used Amir until Aurum. I was happy with it.
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#7 May 25 2009 at 10:24 PM Rating: Excellent
milich wrote:
holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died.


And they never saw milich again....



RIP.
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#8 May 26 2009 at 2:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died.
And they never saw milich again....



RIP.
He will be missed, until his alcohol cache is discovered, at which point all but one drink will be consumed. Then we will party like no tomorrow, in honor of the deceased.
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#9 May 26 2009 at 4:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Commander MojoVIII wrote:
milich wrote:
holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died.
And they never saw milich again....



RIP.
He will be missed, until his alcohol cache is discovered, at which point all but one drink will be consumed. Then we will party like no tomorrow, in honor of the deceased.
Pour a little liquor on the ground for our homie.

On the ground, and in our mouths Smiley: chug
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#10 May 26 2009 at 5:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Commander MojoVIII wrote:
milich wrote:
holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died.
And they never saw milich again....



RIP.
He will be missed, until his alcohol cache is discovered, at which point all but one drink will be consumed. Then we will party like no tomorrow, in honor of the deceased.
If we drank Milich's chache we'd be joining him in death. Smiley: drunk
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#11 May 26 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Commander MojoVIII wrote:
milich wrote:
holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died.
And they never saw milich again....



RIP.
He will be missed, until his alcohol cache is discovered, at which point all but one drink will be consumed. Then we will party like no tomorrow, in honor of the deceased.
If we drank Milich's chache we'd be joining him in death. Smiley: drunk
What a way to go.
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#12 May 27 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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I would say that 50% of the time I am getting 35% from backline. (I already have armada, have had it for years)

Ok lets see if I understand the math here.


My tp gear is

Base Dex 66 + 25 =91 = 60 acc
Acc gear = 47
Skill 282 (too many merits in other categories, but I may drop axe and push this to 290)about 272 acc??

272 + 60 + 47 = 379.

410 (Bird Camp cap) - 379 = 31 31 / 2 = 15% which seems I am only at 80% hit rate? (Without aggressor, i am 3/3/4 so agrressor is up roughly 66% of time) So it would appear that i have a blended hit rate of about 88%.

Dam, going to have to finish meriting GAX, well at least take to to 5 so that I am capped with aggressor up.

Is my math close?









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Arcari wrote:
It's the animation. All Drakesbane does is poke a mob and make lights appear. Ukko's Fury smashes a hole through existence itself to damage an opponent.

#13 May 28 2009 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
the table in this post (i think i'm quoting shintasama with it) can also lead you to the answer to your question. holy sh*t, i was going to post more but my head is hurting so much i need to get offline. wow, that's a sharp pain. if i never post again, assume that i've died. good luck with dusk decision and remember to consider haste spell and/or march(es).


I dunno but YEA, I'm in that post!
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#14 May 28 2009 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tyleron wrote:


I would say that 50% of the time I am getting 35% from backline. (I already have armada, have had it for years)

Ok lets see if I understand the math here.


My tp gear is

Base Dex 66 + 25 =91 = 60 acc
Acc gear = 47
Skill 282 (too many merits in other categories, but I may drop axe and push this to 290)about 272 acc??

272 + 60 + 47 = 379.

410 (Bird Camp cap) - 379 = 31 31 / 2 = 15% which seems I am only at 80% hit rate? (Without aggressor, i am 3/3/4 so agrressor is up roughly 66% of time) So it would appear that i have a blended hit rate of about 88%.

Dam, going to have to finish meriting GAX, well at least take to to 5 so that I am capped with aggressor up.

Is my math close?


273 ACC from skill (the first 200 skill gives you 200 ACC, then everything after is multiplied by .9, with the decimal cut off of the product; 90*.9 = 73.8, so you get 273 ACC, and would get 281 with 290 skill).

as for ACC at bird camp, note that the stats on bgwiki are wrong and the ones on ffxi wiki are right; it's only 2ACC difference, but the old numbers are a small mistake by nagamaki (when he discovered the ACC formula, incidentally) that for some reason the bg people don't fix.

anyway, lv81 has 334 evasion, and lv82 has 339 evasion. ACC% is level corrected such that the mob gains 4 effective evasion (that doesn't show up in /check) for every level above you it is, so lv81 gets 24 more ACC and lv82 gets 28 more ACC, putting effective evasion at

lv81 gcolibri: 358 (so you cap ACC% with 398 ACC vs them)
lv82 gcolibri: 367 (and you cap vs them at 407 ACC)

379 means 85.5% ACC vs lv81, 81% vs lv82. aggressor caps you vs lv81 but not 82.

---

so, dusk vs amir... if you don't make separate macros for aggressor up and down... 6ACC vs 2% haste... i'd go with dusk. if you load up on ACC, i'd think about making an aggressor up macro and doing something crazy in it like wearing byrnie+1 or askar or something. maybe...
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#15 May 28 2009 at 1:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
so, dusk vs amir... if you don't make separate macros for aggressor up and down... 6ACC vs 2% haste... i'd go with dusk. if you load up on ACC, i'd think about making an aggressor up macro and doing something crazy in it like wearing byrnie+1 or askar or something. maybe...


Agreed. I actually do use Askar in my Aggressor macro.

Side note: pahn, why don't you level WAR already?! You'd like it, I promise. Especially coming from a pimped MNK.
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Second, that's not how spell animations work. We wrap our arms around our faces and magic beetle shadows and sh*t fly at the targets.
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And yes before you ask I'm mexican and you better not **** me off about warrior and tequila or I will drop down from the donkey and hit you with my awesome guitar.
#16 May 28 2009 at 4:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
so, dusk vs amir... if you don't make separate macros for aggressor up and down... 6ACC vs 2% haste... i'd go with dusk. if you load up on ACC, i'd think about making an aggressor up macro and doing something crazy in it like wearing byrnie+1 or askar or something. maybe...


Two suggestions I never expected to hear in the warrior forum. And thinking about it, I'm not sure why. Now, I've only just woke up so the odds of me missing the mark are considerable, but; blitz ring? (assuming you're not /sam and need the stp from ecphoria). Cuchlain's to Amemet+1/forager's? Hrm.

Edited, May 28th 2009 12:42pm by MithraDooom
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#17 May 28 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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MithraDooom wrote:
milich wrote:
so, dusk vs amir... if you don't make separate macros for aggressor up and down... 6ACC vs 2% haste... i'd go with dusk. if you load up on ACC, i'd think about making an aggressor up macro and doing something crazy in it like wearing byrnie+1 or askar or something. maybe...


Two suggestions I never expected to hear in the warrior forum. And thinking about it, I'm not sure why. Now, I've only just woke up so the odds of me missing the mark are considerable, but; blitz ring? (assuming you're not /sam and need the stp from ecphoria). Cuchlain's to Amemet+1/forager's? Hrm.

Edited, May 28th 2009 12:42pm by MithraDooom


Byrnie +1 is basically Ares Cuirass. With 7 less Str. (and technically ~2 less acc.) It's also about 6 mil cheaper. Notice how many people use it >.> (lolAres) I am not saying you shouldn't use Byrnie (+1) where appropriate, but that it's applications are slim.

The reason suggestions like Askar/Byrnie/Blitz/etc are not spoken and preached is because Agg up and Agg down macro schemes are min/maxing and generally offer little (worth it, but little) improvement over just leaving in overkill acc. They should be reserved for the people who know what they are doing. As a general rule, its a bad idea to use these items. People thinking they have capped acc everywhere is already a problem enough.
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#18 May 28 2009 at 9:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been saying to use blitz and bombcore when aggressor is up because of excess ACC since... forever
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#19 May 28 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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LordMnementh wrote:
People thinking they have capped acc everywhere is already a problem enough.


This is true. Last LS merit pt I had, the samurai had lower acc than the dancer, despite previously believing his acc would be capped on birds. 75% acc on a 2-handed, merited DD is just sad. Moral of the story? Don't eyeball.

Plus there's the ever-present danger of tailoring your gear for a specific enemy/camp/set of buffs, only for it to become sub-par once you fight something else under differing circumstances.
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#20 May 28 2009 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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RedshiftOnPandy wrote:
I've been saying to use blitz and bombcore when aggressor is up because of excess ACC since... forever


You also have bot macros to automatically change your macro swaps according to what you are fighting. I have to go in and edit my macros every party I have and remember what I had in there. Sometimes I forget to change it and the differences are so miniscule that just a couple fights of losing necessary acc can completely negate the benefit of doing it for an hour straight...

What is good on colibri and nyzul is not necessarily good for everything else. Fighting mamools without bot macros, you'd still have to leave acc gear in on Agg unless you wanted to go apesh*t and put TWO Agg down macros instead of one. (which is already min/maxing)

Moral is, this is good for you. But unless you parse + know the math, know your EXACT acc, or a combination of the above, it is a better and safer idea to just leave the acc gear in. (98% of all playerbase)

Edited, May 28th 2009 2:28pm by LordMnementh

Edited, May 28th 2009 2:30pm by LordMnementh
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lolgaxe wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
WARs do what they do best.

Provoke the foe and break it in half.
Coincidentally, that's how I met my wife.
#21 May 28 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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LordMnementh wrote:
Moral is, this is good for you. But unless you parse + know the math, know your EXACT acc, or a combination of the above, it is a better and safer idea to just leave the acc gear in. (98% of all playerbase)


i agree. though, with so many macro books and palettes, i don't see how anyone couldn't afford a "bird party" macro set. (shrug)

Solrain wrote:
Side note: pahn, why don't you level WAR already?! You'd like it, I promise. Especially coming from a pimped MNK.


i'd like to, but a) i took a month or two off from the game due to laptop trouble so i didn't get anything done, b) i've been working on PUP for more usu-sharing utility (and PUP is fun), c) i have vali's bow, obow, 5/5 relic (and various stuff like osode) for my RNG37;;;, and i'd kind of like to put those to use, d) WAR, though fun, would force me to make some annoying decisions, eg "trade bushi for suppa?" "keep my capped h2h/GK/polearm (last only 4 of course) merits?" "go back to einherjar for ebody?" etc. e) if i get luckier with usukane, i may take NIN to 75 for more equip sharing, just to be "captain eastern jobs".

edit: fixed typo that you can find in quote below;;;.

Edited, May 28th 2009 4:06pm by milich
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#22 May 28 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
LordMnementh wrote:
Moral is, this is good for you. But unless you parse + know the math, know your EXACT acc, or a combination of the above, it is a better and safer idea to just leave the acc gear in. (98% of all playerbase)


i agree. though, with so many macro books and palettes, i don't see how anyone couldn't afford a "bird party" macro set. (shrug)

Solrain wrote:
Side note: pahn, why don't you level WAR already?! You'd like it, I promise. Especially coming from a pimped MNK.


i'd like to, but a) i took a month or two off from the game due to laptop trouble so i didn't get anything done, b) i've been working on PUP for more usu-sharing utility (and PUP is fun), c) i have vali's bow, obow, 5/5 relic (and various stuff like osode) for my RNG37;;;, and i'd kind of like to put those to use, d) WAR, though fun, would force me to make some annoying decisions, eg "trade bushi for brutal?" "keep my capped h2h/GK/polearm (last only 4 of course) merits?" "go back to einherjar for ebody?" etc. e) if i get luckier with usukane, i may take NIN to 75 for more equip sharing, just to be "captain eastern jobs".


**** you and your making-me-feel-guilty-for-not-having-more-macro-sets. -_-... I guess I just don't have THAT much gear to change around, and so I don't really want to write 120 lines of macro code just for one or two gear changes...

As for captain eastern jobs... that's kind of why I haven't leveled any. Enough damned Samurais... Mnk I *really* want to level, but then I'd feel bad about Usukane, need BB items, more sky ****, merits, etc. So unfortunate.
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#23 May 28 2009 at 3:04 PM Rating: Excellent
milich wrote:
stuff

HE'S ALIVE!!!! Smiley: chug


I use more acc gear at mamool, but not by much. My gear sucks *** though.

Milich, level war for the lulz more than anything. With the crossover gear like turban and haidate from your mnk, your war will already be better than most pick ups (read, mine).

AH gear for war, plus haidate plus turban plus a piece or two of heca and you're geared.

Gaxe merits a bonus but not essential. Busha for suppi? nah. Gaxe with assault/brutal ftw.
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