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Low weapon skill damage ; ;Follow

#1 May 17 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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So i've been in merit parties these last couple of days and my weapon skill damage is pretty bad I do anywhere from 200-700 damage on birds (but it's usually between 200-500). I'm Dwing axes Wood/Man, sniper,ecphoria,Huby,life belt,exorcist hose,amemnt mantle +1,walarha turban,bomb core,chiv neck,fowling and minuet earrings. My axe skill is at 273. For my weapon skill I macro in Warwolf belt and 2 ruby rings atm. Feet and gloves are thick.

Edited, May 17th 2009 2:14pm by Mercediz
#2 May 17 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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What is your TP Return on WS if alll hits are landing all the time yoou should be getting 16%TP after a WS if i remeber correctly not been using Axes on WAR for awhile.

The best way to work on Multi-hit WS is to make sure all hits land then add in more STR and Attack on them once you can slowly remove some of the ACC and keep up the High Hit Rate.

Also Do not WS in Turban use something with ACC on it, and i would also suggest looking into an Assault Earring.
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#3 May 17 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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thanks for the reply i'll try that out ^^
#4 May 17 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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OgriLak wrote:
Also Do not WS in Turban use something with ACC on it
I don't know why this isn't more obvious...
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#5 May 17 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Yea i know, but reading his post he didnt mention that he swapped out Turban for WS while he managed other gear swaps
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#6 May 17 2009 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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sorry was in a party or I would have replied sooner but I do swap out my turban and use a sipahi turban but I'll look into getting more acc there instead of +str.
#7 May 17 2009 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
If you can get Ohat do, it's awesome.

Keep lifebelt in for ws for the moment and just swap out one ring and see how that does. If it's getting better returns try swapping the belt. Keep at least one acc ring on though, it's too important to get those hits.

As others said, better earrings are essential.
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#8 May 17 2009 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Besides getting Optical hat, Adaman celata is a rarely contested drop in sky, and its not a bad piece for multihit weaponskills.

While you're working on getting one (or both) of those, why not pick up a Celata from the ah?

Also: lets talk earrings, Assault earring for now, i'd use it to replace the minuet earring full time until you can get Brutal earring (which you will use fulltime once you have it) & Suppanomimi (which you will melee in, then switch to something like assault for weaponskill.)


Edited, May 17th 2009 6:08pm by Demonviper
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#9 May 17 2009 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ya I checked the AH for a Celata but none are there atm. Thanks for all your replies though, like I said a while ago this is my first ever melee job at this level and would rather come here and ask questions (even if they aren't the best questions) and make sure I'm doing it right. So again thanks for answering and being polite about it ^^.
#10 May 17 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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One last question for a while. I have dusk gloves and feet but since I'm having trouble with my WS damage I'm guessing I should sell them and get a assault earring. Or maybe just macro them in for Ni recast?
#11 May 17 2009 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Do not sell your dusk gloves or feet! Assault earring is nice but semi expensive (around 300k on my server) and will not do as much for your DoT as the haste coming from dusk will. Depending on the price of woodsville axes I would sell that and get an Iron Ram Pick (as good if not better than the Woodville's with less cost) and go Man/Pick. Keep on the acc rings and life belt until you get full merits and some gear like Ohat or other high acc gear. You will see much more consistant results and while they may not be uber, you will be much more satisfied than seeing 100-200 point WS's when you only get 2 hits to connect.
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#12 May 17 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's my Dual Wield setup. I really only use this on BST; I use Gaxe on WAR but concept is the same. I threw in cheaper alternatives for the really expensive stuff. In general the best option is on the left and work right. There is obviously better gear for certain slots but I tried to keep it AH-ish.

TP:
Maneater/Iron Ram Pick (best DoT combo imo and IR pick way cheaper than Woody)
Fire Bomblet/Bomb Core
Wally Turban
PCC/Chiv chain
Suppa/Brutal/Assault/Fowling/Spike
Hauberk/Haubergeon
Dusk mitts
Rajas/Woodsmans (woodsmans cheaper than snipers and -eva better than -def)
Amemit +1 (I use this for multiple jobs such as RNG)
Swifty/Lifebelt
Royal knight breeches/Exorcist Hose (I call these even)
Dusk Ledelsens


WS swaps:

head --> Ohat (as mentioned this piece is extremely useful)
hands --> Tarasque +1? not sure I use heca hands
waist --> Lifebelt
feet --> Thick Ledelsen's +1
earring --> macro out suppa for something else

Do not macro +STR on multi-hit ws for xp mobs. If anything macro in more acc.

A lot of what I said just reiterated what others above me said, but I thought you might like to see it all together like this, I know it helped me when ppl did it for me. I actually just cut/pasted this from a post I had started on a similar subject 2 months ago with some minor editing.

Edit: spelling and clarity



Edited, May 18th 2009 12:05am by DodiOnMidgard
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#13 May 17 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot
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#14 May 18 2009 at 1:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Saying Gaxe politely?

Either way, that pic is awesome.


And Dusk hands and feet for TP and swap them out for fourth gauntlets and thick feet for the moment. Work towards better ws pieces when you can, but always keep dusk on for TP.
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#15 May 18 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot
In before Gaxe, nice. Smiley: laugh

Anyway, Acc > Att > STR > DEX for Multi-hit weaponskills. Or, more accurately:

Acc > Att > 1st Mod > 2nd Mod.

Enjoy.
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#16 May 18 2009 at 3:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot
In before Gaxe, nice. Smiley: laugh

Anyway, Acc > Att > STR > DEX for Multi-hit weaponskills. Or, more accurately:
Wow, I'm really off the ball today.

Must be the exam I'm failing in about an hour.
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#17 May 18 2009 at 3:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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so you have:
Main: Woodsman
Sub: Manny
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Walmart Turban/Sipahi
Neck: Chiv Chain
Ears: Minuet/Fowling
Body: Hauby
Hands: Dusk/thick
rings: sniper/ecphoria/ruby x2
back: amemet+1
waist: life belt/warwolf
legs: exorcist hose
feet: Dusk/thick

my recomendations:
Most of the gear is solid. You should sell your woody though, get an Iron Ram Pick if you wanna keep dual wielding, and use the money in other places, such as getting assault earring and ohat. Don't sell your dusk. You'll regret it forever. Dusk hands/feet are some of the best TP pieces in the game for all the jobs that can wear them, only being outdone by a few hard to get pieces(Aurum Boots, Augmented Barone Hands with a solid augment, etc)

Personally I'd sell your minuet too, since unless the brd is giving you minuet, it's not that good. There are times where you can make the argument for minuet, but generally, if you have enough haste, march will probably be better. Don't forget to get a suppa, either. Brutal/suppa is a beastly DW earring set up, but suppa/assault isn't to shabby. Remember though. unless you're using a sword, treat suppa like a haste piece, and macro it out for ws.

Hang on to your ruby rings and warwolf belt though. You need to level your great axe if it's not leveled. It's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of level it. Smiley: schooled Outside of combos like man/ridill or ridill/joy, a solid great axe like byakko's or perdu will out do axe/axe every day of the week, both in sheer dot for merits, and better damage on endgame mobs.

I'm not saying you can't bust out dw on stuff, just that for endgame, great axe will help your ls more. That's where warwolf/rubies come in, since they're solid pieces for -Steel Cyclone- (not raging rush, gear for that like you would rampage)

Main: Manny/Perdu Voulge(Byakko's Axe works til you get it)
Sub: IR. Pick/Pole Grip
Ammo: Bomb Core
Head: Walmart Turban/Ohat (adaman celata) (Celata til you get them)
Neck: Chiv Chain
Ears: Assault/Fowling/Suppa/Brutal
Body: Hauby
Hands: Dusk/fourth gauntlets (replaced later by other things depending on set up, I use Relic hands for Rampage/RR personally, and you should get a pair of Alky's at some point for SC)
rings: sniper/sniper/ruby x2 (drop the ecphoria until it can push your Store TP over enough to increase your tp/hit) (get rajas if you can)
back: amemet+1
waist: life belt/warwolf (try to get swift)
legs: exorcist hose (Byakko's Haidate are top of the line for TP, and a solid ws item for RR/Rampage. Exorcist are decent for King's Justice, but Relic legs would be better for Steel Cyclone)
feet: Dusk/thick (thick feet are fine til you get something better, like adaman, amir, or aurum(listed from worst to best) and hecatomb which varies by ws)

Edited, May 18th 2009 6:42am by Jinte

Edited, May 18th 2009 2:50pm by Jinte
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#18 May 18 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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#19 May 18 2009 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot


Am I the only person bothered by the fact that a Warrior AND a Perdu Voulge are about to walk into an embroidery store? Shouldn't that be a pub or at least a whorehouse (that serves beer)?

Also, when I use DW with Manny/Joytoy, I tp in Suppa/Assault and WS in Brutal/Assault. Am I doinitwrong? Somebody mentioned tping in Suppa/Brutal and that didn't seem as effective for DW with a multihit weapon subbed.
Is brutal better than assault if you are using axe/axe onry?
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#20 May 18 2009 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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For anything but Ridill/joyeuse swordchucks builds you should be using suppa/brutal for meleeing & assault/brutal for weaponskill.
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#21 May 18 2009 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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That picture is so awesome...
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#22 May 18 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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Professor Jinte wrote:
You should sell your manny though


I think you meant sell the Woody...
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#23 May 18 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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Demonviper wrote:
For anything but Ridill/joyeuse swordchucks builds you should be using suppa/brutal for meleeing & assault/brutal for weaponskill.
that was a misspoken phrase on my part. Suppa gives swords atk+5 acc+4, so if you have a sword in your mainhand, it should stay on for ws. If that sword is anything other than ridill and you're not skilling up or joytoy/dnc, urdoinitrong

MikeSeyton wrote:
Professor Jinte wrote:
You should sell your manny though


I think you meant sell the Woody...


that's what I get for posting at 6:30 in the morning Smiley: lol

Edited, May 18th 2009 2:50pm by Jinte
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Am I the only one who clicked on this thread expecting actual baby photos [of Jinte]? o.O

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#24 May 18 2009 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Did you make that pic Sol?

Chialing the Flatulent wrote:
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot


Am I the only person bothered by the fact that a Warrior AND a Perdu Voulge are about to walk into an embroidery store? Shouldn't that be a pub or at least a whorehouse (that serves beer)?


They're prolly going in to destroy everything.

Edited, May 18th 2009 12:58pm by mazmaz
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#25 May 19 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Mmm, new camper. Halp.


Maybe they're rating you down for that 'tarded atk > mod bit.

/sigh, lead a horse to water, etc...

EDIT: I've been wondering why you always say that, even for the good old 30% FSTR mod + 30-35% 2nd mod WAR multis, and I think I finally get it. You've been blinded by Asuran Fists.

Edited, May 19th 2009 5:52pm by Eltio
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#26 May 19 2009 at 3:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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So after using DW axes in merit parties and using my Gaxe I can say that I'm sticking with Gaxe for now. Being as I'm usually invited to tank for merits I can hold hate better with my Gaxe and keep the mob focused on me at least until all the sams WS lol. Anyways, I'm going to merit my Gaxe skill to max and forget DWing axes for now. Maybe if I ever get a joytoy I might DW if I'm not a tank but I guess I was just being stubborn and had to test it out myself to see which one is better atm. I guess if I get more gear that's non-Ah stuff it would fair better with axe/axe. It was also a lot better in my WS using Gaxe.
#27 May 20 2009 at 1:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Now try it /sam and prepare to have your world rocked.
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#28 May 20 2009 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Eltio wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
My last post wrote:
decent


Mmm, new camper. Halp.


Maybe they're rating you down for that 'tarded atk > mod bit.

/sigh, lead a horse to water, etc...

EDIT: I've been wondering why you always say that, even for the good old 30% FSTR mod + 30-35% 2nd mod WAR multis, and I think I finally get it. You've been blinded by Asuran Fists.
Aye. **** you Asuran Fists! Smiley: crymore

It's just habbit to post it now. :/
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#29 May 20 2009 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
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Sorry to hijack this thread, but it's semi-related to the DW/Brutal thing going on. I wonder if you guys could give some advice.

I'm considering getting a Hollow Earring for my RDM. I have Suppa and Brutal at the moment, and I off-hand Joytoy. Basically, would the bonus to enspell damage and accuracy be better than sticking with Brutal Earring?

I see it's been mentioned that Brutal is ineffective if you're pure sword-chucking, but I'm a little confused if you receive any benefit from Brutal if you're only using one multi-hit weapon.

By the way: that picture is hilarious!
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#30 May 20 2009 at 3:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Secretkeeper wrote:
I'm considering getting a Hollow Earring for my RDM. I have Suppa and Brutal at the moment, and I off-hand Joytoy. Basically, would the bonus to enspell damage and accuracy be better than sticking with Brutal Earring?


I see the Mead Hall's fame has spread far and wide, wide enough that even RDMs come seeking our wisdom. You have very fine taste in forums. Congratulations!

However, we're not known for being knowledgeable on enspell damage calculations.
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#31 May 20 2009 at 3:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Chialing the Flatulent wrote:
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot


Am I the only person bothered by the fact that a Warrior AND a Perdu Voulge are about to walk into an embroidery store?


I don't see who you are to be complaining, since you actually know that such a business should be called an embroidery store.

And hey, maybe he's getting his Haidate monogrammed.
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#32 May 20 2009 at 3:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I see the Mead Hall's fame has spread far and wide, wide enough that even RDMs come seeking our wisdom. You have very fine taste in forums. Congratulations!


*Tilts hat* Glad to be here, haha!

Quote:
However, we're not known for being knowledgeable on enspell damage calculations.


Would it help if I said that we magically dip our swords in beer and the mobs, stunned by the sheer awesomeness of it, take consistent extra damage every time we smack them?

(Then again, if I said that, it would be obvious which combo would be more effective. WARs would appear out of the woodwork and ravage all the beer-soaked mobs in sight!)
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#33 May 20 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Secretkeeper wrote:
(Then again, if I said that, it would be obvious which combo would be more effective. WARs would appear out of the woodwork and ravage all the beer-soaked mobs in sight!)
Don't we already, or has Warrior stopped being bandwagon?
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#34 May 20 2009 at 4:23 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Secretkeeper wrote:
(Then again, if I said that, it would be obvious which combo would be more effective. WARs would appear out of the woodwork and ravage all the beer-soaked mobs in sight!)
Don't we already, or has Warrior stopped being bandwagon?
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I demand to know where these pictures are! Smiley: motz
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#35 May 20 2009 at 4:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot


(The page is extremely NSFW.)
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#36 May 20 2009 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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I'm a Warrior and I approve of this derail.

Edited, May 20th 2009 1:07pm by Demonviper
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#37 May 20 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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I think all WARs approve of these derails.
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#38 May 20 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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I DARE a WAR who doesn't approve of these specific derails to raise their hand and say "Aye"...
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#39 May 20 2009 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Would anyone do that as they would get ripped apart? By our drunken antics with vairous Weapons.
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#40 May 20 2009 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well some of the stuff in that link is pretty disgusting, so in this one specific instance, and not in any other, I will say "Aye".

Then again, I am not a real WAR, just a very bored DRG who comes here for the free beer and the lulz.

Edited, May 20th 2009 6:09pm by Lucinus
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#41 May 20 2009 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lucinus wrote:
Well some of the stuff in that link is pretty disgusting, so in this one specific instance, and not in any other, I will say "Aye".


Yeah, some of that stuff is just... why? ; ; but thankfully, for every bit of downright creepy FFXI fan-art, it's not too hard to find something which is actually tasteful. And that makes me happy.
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#42 May 20 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Secretkeeper wrote:
Sorry to hijack this thread, but it's semi-related to the DW/Brutal thing going on. I wonder if you guys could give some advice.

I'm considering getting a Hollow Earring for my RDM. I have Suppa and Brutal at the moment, and I off-hand Joytoy. Basically, would the bonus to enspell damage and accuracy be better than sticking with Brutal Earring?

I see it's been mentioned that Brutal is ineffective if you're pure sword-chucking, but I'm a little confused if you receive any benefit from Brutal if you're only using one multi-hit weapon.

By the way: that picture is hilarious!


Since no one else answered this I will.

It's shown that Joytoy attacks 1.5 times per round, and that adding a WARs latent 10% DA increases this to a measly 1.55 att/rnd (I'm gonna use that notation to save time).

You as a rdm will be doing a basic 1.50 att/rnd, and by using a brutal earring will increase DA frequency by 5% which will increase att/rnd to 1.525.

This is simply a 2.5% increase in attack frequency compared to a 5% increase on your main hand weapon (presuming that has 1att/rnd).

The question is, will this be increasing your DoT by as much as the acc and enspell damage?

I'm not going to try do the calculations, because I don't know about enspell damage, but I would presume that if your main hand sword has a high base damage, that the increased DA rate will still be enough to warrant using Brutal over hollow.

The problem with pure sword-chucking as we define it is, when we say it we mean using joytoy and ridill. When you use a ridill you only increase att/rnd by 0.5%, or 0.005att/rnd, which is incredibly meh.

So, if tl;dr for you, if your main hand weapon is not a multi-hitting weapon, then brutal will still be better than hollow for war. Not sure of the impact enspell has, maybe someone can shed some light, but I doubt that it would have enough of a DoT%increase to counteract the DA loss of equipping hollow over Brutal.


Hope that is right, and answers your question. I'm tentatively dipping my toe in the maths pond.
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
#43 May 20 2009 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,285 posts
mazmaz wrote:
Did you make that pic Sol?

Chialing the Flatulent wrote:
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot


Am I the only person bothered by the fact that a Warrior AND a Perdu Voulge are about to walk into an embroidery store? Shouldn't that be a pub or at least a whorehouse (that serves beer)?


They're prolly going in to destroy everything.


Yea, I made it. I was bored Smiley: lol. And we say it so much, may as well have a pic instead. A picture is worth a thousand words and all.

The store is actually a front. When you walk to the secret room in the back, they've got gambling, a full bar and scantily-clad **** waitresses.

Or they could just be working on their Clothcraft. Either or.
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zellbaca wrote:
Second, that's not how spell animations work. We wrap our arms around our faces and magic beetle shadows and sh*t fly at the targets.
kenage wrote:
And yes before you ask I'm mexican and you better not **** me off about warrior and tequila or I will drop down from the donkey and hit you with my awesome guitar.
#44 May 21 2009 at 4:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Solrain wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
Did you make that pic Sol?

Chialing the Flatulent wrote:
Solrain wrote:
What everyone else said, especially Dodi since he mapped it out so well.

Also, yea:

Screenshot


Am I the only person bothered by the fact that a Warrior AND a Perdu Voulge are about to walk into an embroidery store? Shouldn't that be a pub or at least a whorehouse (that serves beer)?


They're prolly going in to destroy everything.


Yea, I made it. I was bored Smiley: lol. And we say it so much, may as well have a pic instead. A picture is worth a thousand words and all.

The store is actually a front. When you walk to the secret room in the back, they've got gambling, a full bar and scantily-clad **** waitresses.

Or they could just be working on their Clothcraft. Either or.


It's perfect! The old grannies shopping in the store won't even be able to hear the racket in the back. The subterfuge is genius!

(unless they are just working on their clothcraft)

Awesome pic, by the way. Smiley: nod
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