Theoretically...Follow

First of all let me start off by saying I know a DA build would be the absolute worst thing to do ever for WAR.

Now, that being said, how high could you get your DA percentage to be with gear and merits (minus Warriors Charge). I believe that with merits you guys can get a 15% DA rate, but how much DA can you get with gear?




Also, like I said; I know a DA build would be the absolute worst thing to do ever for WAR. I'm not trying to advocate making a DA build, nor am I trying to say that it would be better than any other kind of build. This is just a purely theoretical "what if..." scenario to satisfy my curiosity and by no means should anyone reading this post think it's a good idea to make a DA build, because a DA build is not a good idea.

Its not the worst thing. Theres always someone who will try a evasion build...

Counting weapons? I mean, Ridill/Kclub valid?

If not, lets see...

10 from trait
5 from merits
5 from rune halberd
2 from pole strap
5 from brutal

5 from full ares set

2 from soldier's ring
2 from tau ring during salvage
2 from ares legs
1 from af feet

Comes up to 39%. Not really impressive.

Like I said, I was simply curious about how high it could get.

You know, for some reason I read it as All Jobs.

note to self, drunken mathematics = fun, but ultimately full of holes

is full ares actually good?

i mean, i know its not bad, but is it worth full-timing, tping only, ws only? a buid based around DA doesnt work well because of everything you have to give up to get more DA, but considering you can easily pull off 29% DA while still holding a perdu voulge... idk.

ok now im interested

main: perdu
grip: pole
ammo: fire bomb
head: askar
neck: pcc
ear1: hollow
ear2: brutal
body: hauby+1
hand: dusk
ring1: rajas
ring2: iota
back: amemet+1
waist: swift
legs: byakkos
feet: aurum

str: 17
dex: 38
vit: 7
acc: 47
att: 43
DA: 22%
haste: 18%

main: perdu
grip: pole
ammo: fire bomb
head: ares
neck: pcc
ear1: hollow
ear2: brutal
body: ares
hand: ares
ring1: rajas
ring2: iota
back: amemet+1
waist: swift
legs: ares
feet: ares

str: 29
dex: 16
vit: 22
acc: 59
att: 69
DA: 29%
haste: 4% (lol)

difference for ares
str: +12
dex: -22
vit: +15
acc: +12
att: +26
DA: +7%
haste: -14%

wow, after the dex acc is added ares build is actually -4acc. looks like ares set is crap compared to cluster-@#%^ (sky, znm, nyzul, AH) build. now i remember why i don't do salvage.



edit: errr wtf, spaces dont show up? i need to fix dis.

Edited, May 15th 2009 1:54pm by iknoweverything

Edited, May 15th 2009 2:05pm by iknoweverything

This came up recently, have a root if you want to know more.

It's never going to be worth the cost though.

Ahh if you factor in the Fortitude axe DA with full ares you come out to a very impressive number of attacks which theoretically beats out haste. however your giving up alot of base dmg and acc to do so.

DA build of 65% dA giving you 165 attacks per 100 normal swings then add in another 38% from sea weapon stacking on top of that = 227.7 swings per normal 100.

Wow thats like having more than 55% haste.


Well thats just theory anyway.

Well milich thats just assuming the DA gear settup mentioned above for 65%.

If you stuck veliocious belt and haste spell on top for the additional 21% haste you'd get an amazing 336 attacks per normal 100. And thats not even with brd songs. Even if you were hitting only 70% accuracy that should outdamage most builds.

Yes. Well, more precisely, DA can proc on each swing of a Jailer weapon.

Yep. MNK can have an 8 hit Round >:D

i haven't done the math either, but i'd be surprised if fort isn't the best g.axe (for meriting at least) short of relic.

Before I start with the math, I expect Perdu to out damage Fortitude by a fat margin, first because War ratio between DoT and WS damage is different than Mnk's, and the higher percentage of your damage coming from WS the heavier impact from a low damage weapon(like Fortitude Axe), and second because it implicates the loose of 11 accuracy and 16 attack(Perdu Bonus + Fire Bomblet)

-------------------------------Enemy----------------------------------------------------
Level 81: Defense 322, Evasion 334, VIT 67, AGI 67
Level 82: Defense 327, Evasion 339, VIT 67, AGI 67
Average: lvl: 81.5, def: 324.5, eva: 336.5, correction: 0.325

------------------------------Weapons----------------------------------------------------
Fortitude Axe:
DPS: 762 DMG:64 Delay:504 VIT+7 LV 73 WAR DRK
Virtue stone equipped: Occasionally attacks twice

Perdu Voulge:
[Main] All Races
DPS: 1083 DMG:91 Delay:504 LV 73 WAR DRK
Latent effect: DMG:96 Attack+10 Accuracy+5

-------------------------------Stats----------------------------------------------------- 
                                                        Perdu           Fortitude 
STR = 18 + 71 =                                         89              89 
2 Handed Attack =  8 + 292 + 66(82) + 26 + 10 + 60 =    466             450 
Beserk:                                                 582.5           562.5 
Accuracy:                                               401             390 
Aggressor:                                              426             415 
fSTR = ((89 - 67) + 4) / 2 =                            13              13 
pDif(no Berserk):                                       1.333           1.274 
pDif(Berserk):                                          1.764           1.69 
Accuracy penalty:                                       -26             -26 
%Hit(no Aggressor):                                     94.25           88.75 
%Hit(Aggressor):                                        95              95 

--------------------------------Math-----------------------------------------------------
Normal Damage:

Berserk:
Fortitude: ( 64 + 13 ) * 1.69 = 130.13
Perdu: ( 96 + 13 ) * 1.764 = 192.276

No Berserk:
Fortitude: ( 64 + 13 ) * 1.274 = 98.098
Perdu: ( 96 + 13 ) * 1.333 = 145.297

Weapon Skill Damage(I will take king's justice for this comparison):

Berserk:
Fortitude: ( ( 64 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.69 = 190.97 * 3 = 572.91
Perdu: ( ( 96 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 192.276 = 278.8 * 3 = 836.4

No Berserk:
Fortitude: ( ( 64 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.274 = 143.962 * 3 = 431.886
Perdu: ( ( 96 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.333 = 193.285 * 3 = 579.855

Lets be fair and consider Bersker merited 3/5 with it up 70% of the time

Average hit:
Fortitude: ( 130.13 * 0.7 ) + ( 98.098 * 0.3) = 120.5204
Perdu: ( 192.276 * 0.7 ) + ( 145.297 * 0.3 ) = 178.1823

Average WS:
Fortitude: ( 572.91 * 0.7 ) + ( 431.886 * 0.3) = 530.6028
Perdu: ( 836.4 * 0.7 ) + ( 579.855 * 0.3) = 759.4365

To factor Fortitude DA we just need to multiply that for 1.5 since every hit has the chance to proc DA or in other words both DA from traits and equipment and DA from Fortitud multiply each other instead of overlap.

Average hit:
Fortitude: ( 130.13 * 0.7 ) + ( 98.098 * 0.3) = 120.5204 * 1.5 = 180.7806
Perdu: ( 192.276 * 0.7 ) + ( 145.297 * 0.3 ) = 178.1823

Average WS:
Fortitude: ( 572.91 * 0.7 ) + ( 431.886 * 0.3) = 530.6028 * 1.5 = 795.9042
Perdu: ( 836.4 * 0.7 ) + ( 579.855 * 0.3) = 759.4365

I just can say... that I feel like to cry ; ;

Ken.

P.D. there is also a little difference in accuracy during aggressor down state, that account for ~2% DoT that push Perdu a bit ahead in normal damage but still a short on WS damage, after this I would say that both are the same... but still!

Sea weapons don't work on WS

Need to take into account that even with DA+50% TA+11% (assuming you have DA+22% base), a lot of the time you will waste TP because you went over.

EDIT: Fortitude Axe can't attack four times in one round. Three times is the most, DA and Fort can only proc on the first hit and not on subsequent hits.

Edited, May 19th 2009 1:28am by RedshiftOnPandy

I still think Fortitude isn't as good as Perdu in meriting though. With 6hit, DA 22%, high acc/haste and retaliation, WS fast with just Perdu and the jump to Fortitude isn't much faster in WS spam.

This is just me talking in the morning with no desire to go to class, so don't mind me.

For TP in the 100-200 range, it's pretty negligible for KJ and SC too. Don't take much for Fort to work in macros either, just add "/equip ammo virtue stone" after WS macros or any 'aftercast' macros. And farming stones isn't so bad, I got 3 stacks after getting Fort Tork >.>

Well, I am coming from a PS2 perspective. I am sure that it would not be a problem for people using "bot macros"(my pet name for spellcast), but it is quite a bit of effort when you hit 2 macros for WS, 1 for TP, and they can lag out, leaving Bomblet or Core instead of Stones. Also a hindrance when you have to hit all that while properly positioning yourself for the next mob (which can also lag pretty bad and still cause you to sheathe.)I know you advanced macro people like to claim normal people can do everything you can, but this is one example where it just doesn't work out all that well for non-windower.

It isn't hard, I do it all the time... (Just not with Fort Axe) I am a very aggressive DD, and It's difficult to be such when having to busy yourself with WS swaps so often while also maintaining proper mob switching and sh*t. Perhaps you forgot why you decided to change from PS2 in the first place... obviously there has to be a reason, so don't pretend it isn't there.

I never said it was hard or impossible. I just suggested it didn't work that smoothly (efficiently) and that its more cumbersome to maintain at peak levels for hours in a row. Whether or not you believe me is your own thing, but I can guarantee it takes you a lot less time to macro swap, and I can guarantee that my stones don't equip every time I hit the macro, as I have to wait for all of the "Equipment Changed" messages to process. I do things faster than that sometimes and don't get all my equipment swapped. Also, you may have had less equipment to swap when you were on PS2. If I add stones to my TP macro, then I lose a piece of gear that I can switch out. They are all pretty maxed. Its also not a problem in any normal situation, but it becomes an issue when I have to macro surf as much as I do with Fort Axe.



Edited, May 19th 2009 2:48pm by LordMnementh

When I use my love halberd I pop a few stacks open and then switch to a stack of 99 before my current stack runs out.

Damnit! I've been assuming all perdu weapon have the same bonus. My hanger is +15. Thanks for the correction.

That's how I manage gear swaps when not using SC which is a lot of the time. What I do is, I have ctrl+3 as my actual RR macro. In macro set 2 it is the same, but with a clause that switches me back to set 1 again, so even if I hit ctrl+1 (my gear swaps) too many times, I'll be back in set 1 after the weaponskill regardless.

When playing I usually just mash ctrl+1 a few times, then hit ctrl+3 and continue.

My weaponskill macro swaps back in a lot of my tp gear, and then alt+1 gets another piece or two.