Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Theoretically...Follow

#1 May 15 2009 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,194 posts
First of all let me start off by saying I know a DA build would be the absolute worst thing to do ever for WAR.

Now, that being said, how high could you get your DA percentage to be with gear and merits (minus Warriors Charge). I believe that with merits you guys can get a 15% DA rate, but how much DA can you get with gear?




Also, like I said; I know a DA build would be the absolute worst thing to do ever for WAR. I'm not trying to advocate making a DA build, nor am I trying to say that it would be better than any other kind of build. This is just a purely theoretical "what if..." scenario to satisfy my curiosity and by no means should anyone reading this post think it's a good idea to make a DA build, because a DA build is not a good idea.
____________________________
Rule #2!! Lots of meaningless explosions!!!
Excel Saga

Albedo = best villain evar
My rendition of my favorite VG character
My COR alla MSpaint

Gear stuff:
MNK
COR
#2 May 15 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
***
3,959 posts
I think I worked it out to be around 68% or something daft like that a while back. Definitely in excess of 60%, I don't remember everything I factored in though.
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#3 May 15 2009 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
**
389 posts
Its not the worst thing. Theres always someone who will try a evasion build...

Counting weapons? I mean, Ridill/Kclub valid?

If not, lets see...

10 from trait
5 from merits
5 from rune halberd
2 from pole strap
5 from brutal

5 from full ares set

2 from soldier's ring
2 from tau ring during salvage
2 from ares legs
1 from af feet

Comes up to 39%. Not really impressive.
#4 May 15 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,726 posts
wyrmnax wrote:
Its not the worst thing. Theres always someone who will try a evasion build...

Counting weapons? I mean, Ridill/Kclub valid?

If not, lets see...

10 from trait
5 from merits
5 from rune halberd
2 from pole strap
5 from brutal

5 from full ares set

2 from soldier's ring
2 from tau ring during salvage
2 from ares legs
1 from af feet

Comes up to 39%. Not really impressive.


Hmmmmm Smiley: dubious
____________________________
I has a journal. It has nice things. - updated whenever

war/nin/rdm/thf/brd/pld/mnk/drg/smn/sam/dnc/bone100/maat's cap/phoenix
( ')< shadow duck approves of this message.

Findanniin wrote:
"Last reply Mithradoom. Well, someone had to go rain on the happy parade" was exactly what went through my head. xD


Keliaffxi wrote:

ITT: The Gimpire Strikes Back
#5 May 15 2009 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
*****
15,268 posts
MithraDooom wrote:
wyrmnax wrote:
Its not the worst thing. Theres always someone who will try a evasion build...

Counting weapons? I mean, Ridill/Kclub valid?

If not, lets see...

10 from trait
5 from merits
5 from rune halberd
2 from pole strap
5 from brutal

5 from full ares set

2 from soldier's ring
2 from tau ring during salvage
2 from ares legs
1 from af feet

Comes up to 39%. Not really impressive.


Hmmmmm Smiley: dubious
Smiley: laugh
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#6 May 15 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
***
3,959 posts
Redoing it as it's easier.

10 from traits
5 from merits
5 from Brutal
2 from Pole Grip

that's some ground work down at 22.

Now to fine-tune that.

Roshi Jinpachi + Shogun Rice Ball +5
Drake Earring +5
Rune Halberd +5
Askar Korazin +2
Ares' Flanchard +2
Soldier's Ring +2
Tau Ring +2
Fighter's Calligae +1

Fighter's Roll from COR: Up to 24% assuming job correllation

Currently puts us at 65%

The real question, though, is "WHY!?"

Edited, May 15th 2009 6:47pm by Lucinus
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#7 May 15 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,194 posts
Quote:
The real question, though, is "WHY!?"


Like I said, I was simply curious about how high it could get.
____________________________
Rule #2!! Lots of meaningless explosions!!!
Excel Saga

Albedo = best villain evar
My rendition of my favorite VG character
My COR alla MSpaint

Gear stuff:
MNK
COR
#8 May 15 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,726 posts
Drake Earring is drg only :(
____________________________
I has a journal. It has nice things. - updated whenever

war/nin/rdm/thf/brd/pld/mnk/drg/smn/sam/dnc/bone100/maat's cap/phoenix
( ')< shadow duck approves of this message.

Findanniin wrote:
"Last reply Mithradoom. Well, someone had to go rain on the happy parade" was exactly what went through my head. xD


Keliaffxi wrote:

ITT: The Gimpire Strikes Back
#9 May 15 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,959 posts
MithraDooom wrote:
Drake Earring is drg only :(
You know, for some reason I read it as All Jobs.

note to self, drunken mathematics = fun, but ultimately full of holes
____________________________
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH
#10 May 15 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
*****
15,268 posts
DERG.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#11 May 15 2009 at 10:53 AM Rating: Good
***
1,067 posts
is full ares actually good?

i mean, i know its not bad, but is it worth full-timing, tping only, ws only? a buid based around DA doesnt work well because of everything you have to give up to get more DA, but considering you can easily pull off 29% DA while still holding a perdu voulge... idk.

ok now im interested

main: perdu
grip: pole
ammo: fire bomb
head: askar
neck: pcc
ear1: hollow
ear2: brutal
body: hauby+1
hand: dusk
ring1: rajas
ring2: iota
back: amemet+1
waist: swift
legs: byakkos
feet: aurum

str: 17
dex: 38
vit: 7
acc: 47
att: 43
DA: 22%
haste: 18%

main: perdu
grip: pole
ammo: fire bomb
head: ares
neck: pcc
ear1: hollow
ear2: brutal
body: ares
hand: ares
ring1: rajas
ring2: iota
back: amemet+1
waist: swift
legs: ares
feet: ares

str: 29
dex: 16
vit: 22
acc: 59
att: 69
DA: 29%
haste: 4% (lol)

difference for ares
str: +12
dex: -22
vit: +15
acc: +12
att: +26
DA: +7%
haste: -14%

wow, after the dex acc is added ares build is actually -4acc. looks like ares set is crap compared to cluster-@#%^ (sky, znm, nyzul, AH) build. now i remember why i don't do salvage.



edit: errr wtf, spaces dont show up? i need to fix dis.

Edited, May 15th 2009 1:54pm by iknoweverything

Edited, May 15th 2009 2:05pm by iknoweverything
#12 May 15 2009 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
****
4,906 posts
The complete and utter lack of haste is what kills the ares set.

Realistically, the most you should be wearing is DA+22% total; from base + merits + brutal + pole. Anything else and the benefits would not out weigh the opportunity cost.
____________________________
MojoVIII wrote:
Sweet! I love being sigged
Spoonless wrote:
HOLY CRAP GIGANTIC SIG.

Caitsith
WAR excel sheet for damage calculations.
Advanced Spellcast Script for WAR.

Retired - sold 200m
#13 May 15 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
iknoweverything wrote:
is full ares actually good?
This came up recently, have a root if you want to know more.

It's never going to be worth the cost though.
____________________________
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
#14 May 16 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
15,268 posts
Monsieur MojoVIII wrote:
iknoweverything wrote:
is full ares actually good?
This came up recently, have a root if you want to know more.

It's never going to be worth the cost though.
Linked for the lazy.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#15 May 17 2009 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
Ahh if you factor in the Fortitude axe DA with full ares you come out to a very impressive number of attacks which theoretically beats out haste. however your giving up alot of base dmg and acc to do so.

DA build of 65% dA giving you 165 attacks per 100 normal swings then add in another 38% from sea weapon stacking on top of that = 227.7 swings per normal 100.

Wow thats like having more than 55% haste.


Well thats just theory anyway.
____________________________
[ffxisig]59042[/ffxisig]

#16 May 17 2009 at 2:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,815 posts
Eihnlazer wrote:
Ahh if you factor in the Fortitude axe DA with full ares you come out to a very impressive number of attacks which theoretically beats out haste. however your giving up alot of base dmg and acc to do so.

DA build of 65% dA giving you 165 attacks per 100 normal swings then add in another 38% from sea weapon stacking on top of that = 227.7 swings per normal 100.

Wow thats like having more than 55% haste.


Well thats just theory anyway.


but does that take into account DA you'd get anyway from traits, merits, pole grip, and brutal, along with a normal haste setup? (not to mention fort axe can be used with haste too)
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#17 May 17 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
Well milich thats just assuming the DA gear settup mentioned above for 65%.

If you stuck veliocious belt and haste spell on top for the additional 21% haste you'd get an amazing 336 attacks per normal 100. And thats not even with brd songs. Even if you were hitting only 70% accuracy that should outdamage most builds.
____________________________
[ffxisig]59042[/ffxisig]

#18 May 18 2009 at 1:32 AM Rating: Excellent
Eihnlazer wrote:
Ahh if you factor in the Fortitude axe DA with full ares you come out to a very impressive number of attacks which theoretically beats out haste. however your giving up alot of base dmg and acc to do so.

DA build of 65% dA giving you 165 attacks per 100 normal swings then add in another 38% from sea weapon stacking on top of that = 227.7 swings per normal 100.

Wow thats like having more than 55% haste.


Well thats just theory anyway.
Um, can't DA more than 100%... Shouldn't cap be 100 swings per normal 100?

Or can sea weapon proc on a DA too?
____________________________
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
#19 May 18 2009 at 1:45 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
15,268 posts
Monsieur MojoVIII wrote:
Or can sea weapon proc on a DA too?
Yes. Well, more precisely, DA can proc on each swing of a Jailer weapon.
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#20 May 18 2009 at 3:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Wow... That's really awesome.

So you could have a 4 swing attack round?
____________________________
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
#21 May 18 2009 at 3:54 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
15,268 posts
Monsieur MojoVIII wrote:
Wow... That's really awesome.

So you could have a 4 swing attack round?
Yep. MNK can have an 8 hit Round >:D
____________________________
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#22 May 18 2009 at 8:42 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
****
4,884 posts
That's why I don't think Fortitude Axe gets as much credit as it should... My hypothesis is that the math will work out in favor of Fort. Axe over just about all other options for several reasons. I started working on the math, but then I got busy at work. I'll finish it someday.

Edited, May 18th 2009 12:42pm by LordMnementh
____________________________
[
#23 May 18 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,815 posts
LordMnementh wrote:
That's why I don't think Fortitude Axe gets as much credit as it should... My hypothesis is that the math will work out in favor of Fort. Axe over just about all other options for several reasons. I started working on the math, but then I got busy at work. I'll finish it someday.

Edited, May 18th 2009 12:42pm by LordMnementh


i haven't done the math either, but i'd be surprised if fort isn't the best g.axe (for meriting at least) short of relic.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
#24 May 18 2009 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
It's just roughly a 50% DoT increase that isn't subject to the diminishing returns of typical DA+ (it works compounded on top of DA rather than added to it). I think it'd be a fun toy but I would say that Perdu would give it some tough competition and not need to use virtue stones.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#25 May 18 2009 at 5:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
***
1,500 posts
bsphil wrote:
It's just roughly a 50% DoT increase that isn't subject to the diminishing returns of typical DA+ (it works compounded on top of DA rather than added to it). I think it'd be a fun toy but I would say that Perdu would give it some tough competition and not need to use virtue stones.
Before I start with the math, I expect Perdu to out damage Fortitude by a fat margin, first because War ratio between DoT and WS damage is different than Mnk's, and the higher percentage of your damage coming from WS the heavier impact from a low damage weapon(like Fortitude Axe), and second because it implicates the loose of 11 accuracy and 16 attack(Perdu Bonus + Fire Bomblet)

-------------------------------Enemy----------------------------------------------------
Level 81: Defense 322, Evasion 334, VIT 67, AGI 67
Level 82: Defense 327, Evasion 339, VIT 67, AGI 67
Average: lvl: 81.5, def: 324.5, eva: 336.5, correction: 0.325

------------------------------Weapons----------------------------------------------------
Fortitude Axe:
DPS: 762 DMG:64 Delay:504 VIT+7 LV 73 WAR DRK
Virtue stone equipped: Occasionally attacks twice

Perdu Voulge:
[Main] All Races
DPS: 1083 DMG:91 Delay:504 LV 73 WAR DRK
Latent effect: DMG:96 Attack+10 Accuracy+5

-------------------------------Stats----------------------------------------------------- 
                                                        Perdu           Fortitude 
STR = 18 + 71 =                                         89              89 
2 Handed Attack =  8 + 292 + 66(82) + 26 + 10 + 60 =    466             450 
Beserk:                                                 582.5           562.5 
Accuracy:                                               401             390 
Aggressor:                                              426             415 
fSTR = ((89 - 67) + 4) / 2 =                            13              13 
pDif(no Berserk):                                       1.333           1.274 
pDif(Berserk):                                          1.764           1.69 
Accuracy penalty:                                       -26             -26 
%Hit(no Aggressor):                                     94.25           88.75 
%Hit(Aggressor):                                        95              95 

--------------------------------Math-----------------------------------------------------
Normal Damage:

Berserk:
Fortitude: ( 64 + 13 ) * 1.69 = 130.13
Perdu: ( 96 + 13 ) * 1.764 = 192.276

No Berserk:
Fortitude: ( 64 + 13 ) * 1.274 = 98.098
Perdu: ( 96 + 13 ) * 1.333 = 145.297

Weapon Skill Damage(I will take king's justice for this comparison):

Berserk:
Fortitude: ( ( 64 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.69 = 190.97 * 3 = 572.91
Perdu: ( ( 96 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 192.276 = 278.8 * 3 = 836.4

No Berserk:
Fortitude: ( ( 64 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.274 = 143.962 * 3 = 431.886
Perdu: ( ( 96 + 13 + 36 ) * 1 ) * 1.333 = 193.285 * 3 = 579.855

Lets be fair and consider Bersker merited 3/5 with it up 70% of the time

Average hit:
Fortitude: ( 130.13 * 0.7 ) + ( 98.098 * 0.3) = 120.5204
Perdu: ( 192.276 * 0.7 ) + ( 145.297 * 0.3 ) = 178.1823

Average WS:
Fortitude: ( 572.91 * 0.7 ) + ( 431.886 * 0.3) = 530.6028
Perdu: ( 836.4 * 0.7 ) + ( 579.855 * 0.3) = 759.4365

To factor Fortitude DA we just need to multiply that for 1.5 since every hit has the chance to proc DA or in other words both DA from traits and equipment and DA from Fortitud multiply each other instead of overlap.

Average hit:
Fortitude: ( 130.13 * 0.7 ) + ( 98.098 * 0.3) = 120.5204 * 1.5 = 180.7806
Perdu: ( 192.276 * 0.7 ) + ( 145.297 * 0.3 ) = 178.1823

Average WS:
Fortitude: ( 572.91 * 0.7 ) + ( 431.886 * 0.3) = 530.6028 * 1.5 = 795.9042
Perdu: ( 836.4 * 0.7 ) + ( 579.855 * 0.3) = 759.4365

I just can say... that I feel like to cry ; ;

Ken.

P.D. there is also a little difference in accuracy during aggressor down state, that account for ~2% DoT that push Perdu a bit ahead in normal damage but still a short on WS damage, after this I would say that both are the same... but still!
____________________________
"Maybe it means: you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. Nine-millimeter here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous *** in the Valley of Darkness." - Jules.
FFXIV: Mabel Rand (Gugnir)
FFXI: Kenage, retired.
K&K forever!,
#26 May 18 2009 at 5:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
Avatar
*****
10,815 posts
well, remember 2 factors for low dmg multihit weapons: 1) fSTR for melee. that plus h2h giving base dmg is a huge part of the reason why faith baghs are so broken, and why ridill is/was such a big deal. 2) fSTR and WSC on WS. this is the big strength for soboro and, i might guess, fort axe. you make up a lot of that base dmg disparity with fSTR and WSC common to both.

(1) not so big a deal for GA WAR. 96 is an even 50% greater than 64, which drops only to 43% if you add 10 fSTR on (compared to, say destroyers vs faiths, where destroyers have 50% more +DMG, but yield a base damage only about 17% higher than faiths once h2h skill and fSTR are factored in. (2) on the other hand... hey that's odd, you have perdu still at 43% higher average damage than fort. what do you know. well, regardless, you can infer that fort should win if you get 50%~ more WS.
____________________________
pahn
retired monk

i wish to be the red comet.
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)