War Tank/DD in Salvage?Follow

I myself was the SAM in a SAM + WAR tanking duo for nearly 200 runs.
The majority of which were successful.

It's a combo that works well, from my experience.
While I wouldn't say that the MNKs I occasionally tanked with were masters of their jobs, I ALWAYS preferred my WAR compatriot :P

Meh, don't know if I answered your question, just thought I should compound the statement that WAR and SAM aren't tanks to be sniffed at simply because they're not MNKs.

Anyway, good luck in the future :D

Edit:
Thought I should just mention our normal set up. Worked damn near every time ^.~
WAR
SAM
BRD
RDM
WHM
DRG
THF

Edited, May 13th 2009 5:36pm by Monkiwastaken

The only experience I can offer from tanking chariots is from doing so in Nyzul. I know those aren't nearly as hard as in Salvage, but they still suck.

Personally I hate tanking them. But Ive never really seen how much dmg a mnk actually takes from them. Counterstance is usually enough to fall backon that it allows MNK to get shadows up much easier than WAR can. I won't say war can work better than mnk, I somehow don't see that being possible. Maybe someone can explain why that would be the case.

However, wars can cap gear haste just like mnks but... i really don't know what I'm saying.

Can WAR work as a salvage tank? Yes. Should you use WAR if you have access to a MNK? Assuming player skill and gear quality are similar, no.

Sorry to all the WARs... I have WAR and MNK, both very well geared, and I love playing both jobs... but there's no way anything that WAR has can match the usefulness of Counterstance in Salvage.

If you're comparing, say, a very well-geared and skilled WAR with a fresh-75 MNK in a SH and strike subligar who thinks kick attacks gear will beat full Usu, then yeah choose the WAR.

Your better damage mitigation was very likely caused by people being more cautious and careful than usual. For NM farming pretty much any job setup works... but I can't see any job beating MNK on simultaneous tanking + DD ability on things like chariots.

I think you're seriously underestimating how much damage War/Sam or Sam/War does to the chariot bosses. You're saying similarly geared so assuming the mnk and the other DD has top notch gear they're going to be very close. Mnks main advantage is being a little bit easier to defend and obviously subtle blow but if you go /War you can't really counterstance and /Nin you spend a lot of time using Utsesumi: Ichi at 4 seconds a cast that does slow your damage. Seigan + Third Eye are not taken out by chariot WS. Sam/War and War/Sam also have Voke to bounce hate a bit easier. Also now because of auspice TP gain isn't a huge issue either that's not really an issue at all. The other be advantage War or Sam has as well is if you're in a rush and need to kill the chariot boss fast their 2hrs are much safer. Using HF on certain chariots is asking for special move spam. Chakra is nice but really you use it what like 3-4 times during a fight? If War and Sam are similarly geared to Mnk then how can you say that Mnks generally have more haste? That's a big contradiction, average haste gear being Mnks w.turban, brown belt, b.haidate, and fuma 21% vs. War w.turban, swift belt, dusk gloves, b.haidate, and aurum/dusk/unicorn boots 19-20%? Let’s not get into the difference of att/acc.

Personally I find it's less of a performance issue and more just what you're comfortable with. Wars, Sams, and Mnks are all really good and if you aren't well geared and merited you're just going to suck no matter what job. I realize salvage is the only place mnk really gets to shine in the spotlight but having other jobs sharing that spotlight doesn't hurt Mnk really.

This is true. WAR/SAM is fairly good for co-tanking, but Third Eye is a fickle bastard. There are those times when you will have it down on first hit, and then you get double attacked and a tp move. At MNK has counterstance to fall back on, and has more hps to survive a oh sh*t moment.

SAM/WAR is as good as WAR/SAM on tanking. It has more evasion, but evasion means nothing on salvage. Especially on a hauby.

What i see is: WAR and SAM can tank equally well on salvage. Both fall short of MNK.

MNK ftw.

Counterstance is @#%^ing broken, it's true.

Oh snap, when was that determined? Last I heard it was all guessing games and half-baked theories. Can you provide more info on:
1) How counter merits play into that (ie counter rate without v with, how much each one improves. I assume + counter gear to work the same as merits, which would allow quantification of temple+1 v Byakkos no?)
2) How those numbers were arrived at
3) What the formula is without CS up?

If this is all common knowledge nowadays, my apologies, I haven't really looked into it in a while.

My salvage group normally goes as

MNK/NIN Tarutaru (me)
WAR/NIN Mithra
BRD/WHM Hume
RDM/WHM Hume
WHM/BLM Hume
COR/NIN Mithra
THF/NIN Hume (Mandau THF)

Or

MNK/NIN Tarutaru (me)
WAR/NIN Mithra
BRD/WHM Hume
WHM/BLM Hume
DRG/SAM Hume (Gungnir DRG)
THF/NIN Mithra
RDM/WHM Hume

or something like that.

MNK/NIN and WAR/NIN CAN and DO co-tank effectively. I actually prefer it for silver sea when the boss charms. Retaliation allows the war not to be able to chase down the mages (runs REALLLLYY slow with dusk on too) and the provoke spike helps solidify hate.

Thats not to say I havent won it with 2 MNK/NINs - Ive just found it easier when you have a voker there.

We have co-tanked every salvage boss - it took us a few attempts at silver sea and bhaflau to get down our strategies and get used to working side by side but I personally feel that its worked out quite well.

---

penance + auspice + monks roll = lolchariots btw

Edited, May 15th 2009 9:35pm by Xellith

If I had MNK leveled, I'd do Salvage on that, but I don't.

I've been doing Salvage for just at a year now, 3-4 runs per week, always going as WAR/NIN. Our group has just shy of 40 pieces, not counting a couple people who got a piece or two but had to quit due to RL commitments, and tons of 2/3 for several pieces (SSR can kiss my ass, and if I see one more double Skadi boss...)

Basically meaning, we're pretty effective, most zones we'll farm 35s and do the boss with a little time left over. (SSR is always 4NM + Boss, etc)

That entire time I've tanked on WAR/NIN, co-tanking with the MNK (Who has BB and pretty much everything but full Usukane). Tanking all of the bosses on WAR is pretty easy (Obviously MNK has a huge advantage with Counterstance), but I've never felt that I was holding the group back by being on WAR.

Having someone to voke things for that quick initial hate spike helps, and as long as the WAR is a capable tank (Knows how to cast Ichi basically, the rest is pretty common sense), and has good support, they can be quite capable in Salvage.

Once you have Abilities/Subs/Magic, WAR is actually a better tank the first few floors on most of them. Better hate holding, and even with shadows down, normally don't get hit for much.

But as you go higher up, MNK really does start doing better. And on chariots, obviously MNK is far better.

As said, you can do it with WAR all the way, but you will find for the most part it tends to be a tad slower, and far riskier.

I'd still take a War over a Sam if I did Salvage, honestly. Ive done Salvage a couple times, and Ive tanked Chariots (lesser ones) and with equally good support, I'd take Mnk > War > Sam > Drk (everyone forgets how good a Drk/Nin can tank) for raw tanking/DD ability and usefulness throughout salvage. War really does have that role pretty close to mnk on all angles with the major exception of counterstance.