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Adaberk vs. AresberkFollow

#27 May 11 2009 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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OrsonBastokChampion wrote:
To say that a NQ Hauby would out damage an Ares's Body is ludicrous.
It's always the problem when someone spend 12 millions on a piece just to discover that isn't as great as they thought.

As I said in the other post the thing with Rune Chopper is the real % in which you can keep the latent activated, only @100% it will come close to Perdu, to be fair, giving that Perdu user is firing the WS as soon as he passes 100 tp.

But even there it doesn't change anything between Hauby and Ares both bodies will work more or less same for tp, now if don't have a Pld leveled, what is the point to waste 12 millions on a body that works more or less the same as 200k piece?

Sincerely.

Ken.

P.D. Disclaimer: indeed there are situations where Ares will out damage hauby for an interesting margin(2-3% DoT), my problem with Ares is the cost/benefit ratio, isn't anything less than terrible, even to the point where you are getting a situational piece for 10+ millions, there are many other upgrades that can be done with less than half of that price and with much better results.
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#28 May 11 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Default
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With Ares's Cuirass, Sanction Refresh, Ethereal Earring, and a few mp merits you will have Rune Chopper active very close to 100% of the time. Also yes I definitely other jobs that use Ares so it is worth far more to me than other people. The thing is I'm next up in my LS for getting E.body but I won't be using it in most situations because I'm already out parsing most E.body Wars with a similar level of gear quality as me. Unless an e.body War has 22% haste or more and full merits they won't out parse me.

Edited, May 11th 2009 6:45pm by OrsonBastokChampion
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#29 May 11 2009 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm already out parsing most E.body Wars with a similar level of gear quality as me. Unless an e.body War has 22% haste or more and full merits they won't out parse me.

I would really hope that anyone who has the ability to choose between an Ares Body and an E. Body would know that outparsing other players is irrelevant. The question is whether you will outparse yourself.
#30 May 11 2009 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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Caesura wrote:
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I'm already out parsing most E.body Wars with a similar level of gear quality as me. Unless an e.body War has 22% haste or more and full merits they won't out parse me.

I would really hope that anyone who has the ability to choose between an Ares Body and an E. Body would know that outparsing other players is irrelevant. The question is whether you will outparse yourself.
I hope I could be like that eloquent =D

Ken.
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#31 May 11 2009 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Parsing does prove a lot if you're consistent in how you do it.
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#32 May 11 2009 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
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OrsonBastokChampion wrote:
Parsing does prove a lot if you're consistent in how you do it.
The problem I have with your statement is this:

1) A guy and B guy go to a merit party together.
2) A guy is wearing C gear, and B guy is wearing D gear.
3) A guy win the parse therefore C gear is better than D gear.

Sounds logical though, however is plain W R O N G !, because a parse between 2 ppl implicate to many variables that have nothing to do with C or D gear and directly affect the parse result(food, play stile, afk time, level of attention, etc) for this reason something like "I out parse god wearing the shroud of turin" means nothing while comparing gear, where math(as we have said many times) is the ultimate word.

If we can agree on that it's worth to keep disusing, if not let's just say that you don't understand what parses are for.

Ken.
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#33 May 11 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's a difference between using a calculator and reality.


true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD FUCKING ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY SHIT

on a more a direct note, there is no difference between using a calculator and playing ffxi, as long as you have all the information (mob stats). parses differ because of sample size, aggressiveness, etc, but if you swing enough times with 80% ACC, you hit 80% of your hits. math seems like magic to you, but it's not. you'd be totally fucked if math stopped working.
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#34 May 11 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
Quote:
There's a difference between using a calculator and reality.


true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD FUCKING ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY SHIT
oh god lol
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#35 May 11 2009 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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With Ares's Cuirass, Sanction Refresh, Ethereal Earring, and a few mp merits you will have Rune Chopper active very close to 100% of the time. Also yes I definitely other jobs that use Ares so it is worth far more to me than other people. The thing is I'm next up in my LS for getting E.body but I won't be using it in most situations because I'm already out parsing most E.body Wars with a similar level of gear quality as me. Unless an e.body War has 22% haste or more and full merits they won't out parse me.


Don't really know where to start with this. Its not that I disagree with everything you say, its that you are obviously so 1-sided opinionated that it won't matter what anyone else says, if it does'nt agree with you, you won't accept it.

Take Perdu VS Rune. Perdu's extra Base DMG alone is a 9.1% dmg increase over Rune's, thats especially more important in ws's.

To Make RC work, you need a situation like this.

Turban, Haidate, Swift, Dusk hands, Hasso, Haste spell, Double Marches, Rune chopper = 70% haste. Thats a would mean the haste from RC increases DoT by 26.67%. WS DMG would be less. Even then however, Hauby or E.Body would be better unless if you got refresh spell. Ares + sanction = 2(if im wrong, and Ares refresh is 2, then RC owns big time with it), you still need 1 more tick. Ethereal means ****

You seem to severly underestimate ACC. Haste & ACC give some of the biggest melee gains in the game. they are both very depenbdant on each other tho.

E.Bodies ACC going from 84%-95% ACC = 13.1% DMG
E.Bodies ACC going from 79%-90% ACC = 14% DMG

E.Body still gives 10STR for Base dmg + some pDIF ontop just for lulz.

Adaberk is that **** good.

(Again, that does'nt mean you can't build a set around Ares, because ofcourse you can, Ares is a power house body piece, E.Body is just hte ultimate alrounder.)
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#36 May 11 2009 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Ken, I understand what you're saying about variables in parsing. Parsing with people you know that have similar gear, play style and are getting the same buffs over an extremely long sample sizes over multiple parses can really provide good data to show damage. I'm not saying parsing 100% accurate at all but you need to acknowledge the fact that it does provide some decent comparison even between other players if the gaps are big enough.

Quote:
true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD @#%^ING ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY sh*t


You take one thing I said and took it out of context. People were calculating damage in FFXI it isn't just a straight (2+2)/3-7, etc. There's a load of different variables in FFXI. To sit there and say X is better in every situation than Y in FFXI without taking into those variables will not necessarily bring you to the same conclusion.

Finally yes Sandmaster you definitely need haste/march*2/hasso to make the difference in damage far bigger. If you don't have those things you're probably not going to be doing your best damage with either e.body or ares's. Ethereal earring does not mean ****, it and a small amount of down time between kills easily keeps the latent active 100%.

Anyways I'm kinda tired of arguing the merits of an Ares's Body over E.Body so people can take what they wish from what I say or ignore it since it's not the norm.

Edited, May 11th 2009 11:09pm by OrsonBastokChampion
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#37 May 11 2009 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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OrsonBastokChampion wrote:
Quote:
true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD @#%^ING ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY sh*t


You take one thing I said and took it out of context. People were calculating damage in FFXI it isn't just a straight (2+2)/3-7, etc. There's a load of different variables in FFXI. To sit there and say X is better in every situation than Y in FFXI without taking into those variables will not necessarily bring you to the same conclusion.

Edited, May 11th 2009 10:17pm by OrsonBastokChampion
Variability meet probability. Very rarely will we say that X is better in every situation than Y, but not for the reason you said.
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#38 May 11 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Variability meet probability. Very rarely will we say that X is better in every situation than Y, but not for the reason you said.


It was when people are just calculating Ares's Cuirass' vs E.Body stats without taking into account anything else.
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#39 May 11 2009 at 9:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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OrsonBastokChampion wrote:
You take one thing I said and took it out of context. People were calculating damage in FFXI it isn't just a straight (2+2)/3-7, etc. There's a load of different variables in FFXI. To sit there and say X is better in every situation than Y in FFXI without taking into those variables will not necessarily bring you to the same conclusion.
Sorry for the hearth breaking news but yes ffxi is straight 2+2/3-7=-5.66666666666666, there are other variables, yes that's true but you can take them into account as well, now before you keep going with your empirical interpretation of the game, why don't you take the time and make the math to probe your point pal.

Ken.
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K&K forever!,
#40 May 11 2009 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's a game, it's built on math. People sucking is just experimental error.

Edited, May 12th 2009 2:53am by RedshiftOnPandy
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#41 May 11 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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ENTROPY GO!

Except entropy dosn't occour in FFXI, because it has to ahear to the mathematics it's based on.


Milich wrote:
true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD ******* ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY SHIT
LOL
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#42 May 12 2009 at 12:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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#43 May 12 2009 at 3:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ares vs hauby suffers from the Juggernaught Syndrome:

"It costs 20 times more! It MUST be better"

Sad thing is no, for the most part it isnt better.
#44 May 12 2009 at 4:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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RedshiftOnPandy wrote:
It's a game, it's built on math.
Some people will simply not accept this simple truth. They're also usually the ones that will try to justify using Jaridah Peti at 75 by saying they're "highly skilled" players.
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#45 May 12 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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milich wrote:
Quote:
There's a difference between using a calculator and reality.


true story: one day i pressed 1+1 into my trusty windows calculator, and it said the sum was 2. i did it out longhand to confirm, and sure enough i arrived at the same answer. i then went outside to have a cigarette (as i often do after doing math on the computer, usually for ffxi posts/conversations). i saw a child riding down the street toward my house on a bike. i looked the other way down the street and saw a second child riding toward my house. as the both of them got nearer to each other and converged into my field of vision suddenly there were SEVEN CHILDREN! THEN I FOUND MYSELF NO LONGER HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY AND THE WORLD FUCKING ENDING BECAUSE NOTHING MAKES SENSE ANYMORE HOLY SHIT


I want to sig this, Please can I have sig this..

I couldn't work for 5 minutes, i was laughing too hard.


Quote:
It was when people are just calculating Ares's Cuirass' vs E.Body stats without taking into account anything else.


They did go over it. With capped haste rune chopper build will be hot, but not because of Ares Body. Ares Body will not do better than Adaberk, or even Hauberk +1 if acc is not capped or close to it. There are a lot of situations in game where Ares would be better, but not in anything serious that people generally care about.

Edited, May 12th 2009 11:28am by LordMnementh
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#46 May 12 2009 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
That'd make a looong sig... Go for it, it'll annoy admins.
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#47 May 12 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
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Did we get onto how people manage to magically cap Acc without a Hauberkeon +1?

Those people are my favourite. Smiley: sly
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#48 May 12 2009 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Did we get onto how people manage to magically cap Acc without a Hauberkeon +1?

Those people are my favourite. Smiley: sly
These are people that brag about capped acc at birds with madrigal.
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#49 May 12 2009 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Did we get onto how people manage to magically cap Acc without a Hauberkeon +1?

Those people are my favourite. Smiley: sly
Cuz they has meritz duh!
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K&K forever!,
#50 May 12 2009 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
I has meritz!

/brag
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#51 May 12 2009 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Math has destroyed yet has somehow bettered my FFXI experience.
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