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Askar Korazin, worth it?Follow

#52 Mar 16 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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There's some forum ninja'ry going on here.

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#53 Mar 16 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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Guranimol wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:

Let me ask you this, do you think we act this way about lolJuggy aswell? Or are you just self important? Haubergeon is better. That's a fact. We've(i use the royal "we") done the math to prove this. I don't see why you just can't accept it.


Lol wtf is this "we" ****? Is this the gangs of Allakhazam/FFXI? I know Hauby is a better piece overall. That doesn't means Askar doesn't perform just as good at times.
It's when people like you like to flaunt in the face of long established fact. Saying sh*t like "Yeah but if you owned one you'd think it was great", which is retarded.

I was surprisingly nice in my post, considering how stupid that was. Smiley: mad

Also, i doubt Askar will perform as well as Hauby, even at Capped Acc.

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 3:44am by Nilatai
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#54 Mar 17 2009 at 2:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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#55 Mar 17 2009 at 4:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you think that askar is going to outperform hauby when you have raja's then you are dumb. All I was trying to say is that in a situation where someone has really good gear but no Raja's to make a 6 hit, they could create that 6 hit and still have good acc against birds (probably around 93% total). Is this truely better than a 7 hit with hauby, honestly I dont know as I havent had time to do the math. When I get some time I'll look into that.
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#56 Mar 17 2009 at 5:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Hauby
10 acc, 5 DEX
13.75 acc
at least 7.34% Dot (non capped situations)

Askar
2 attack, 2 DA
~.5 Dot from attack and at best 1.82% DoT from DA
at best 2.32~% DoT

Difference 5.02% DoT

But my accuracy is capped/near cap?
If it isn't 93%+ hauby is still better.


I was gonna try out the DA math myself this morning, but this helps.

With as much as people argue around here about silly % like 3% damage increase, I am not sure why you wouldn't use something (Askar Korazin) which would give you +2% DoT when you KNEW your accuracy was capped.

As far as King Arthro, I couldn't tell you, but as redshift says, fortitude axe is the end-all be-all for doing damage while keeping mass amount of TP up while /dnc. If there was no time limit, I'd suggest joy/shield, but Fort Axe would be a must here.
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#57Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 6:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Dude plz stop. Your have a hard line stance on something that is debatable. If you really want to make your point: get an Askar Korazin, parse 500 fights in it, then 500 in a Hauby. Afterwords take a SS of you dropping the Askar. That would be gangsta and you would have really accomplished something.
#58Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 6:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Funny how you can prove my point in an attempt to make me look stupid.
#59 Mar 17 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Math isn't debatable.
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#60 Mar 17 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
RedshiftOnPandy wrote:
You don't cap at 381 (don't include Hasso into ACC total). You know why? Because I don't cap at 400. There is no reason to use Askar over Haubergeon. And I don't think you understand how Aggressor merits work (or high school math) if you think you have it up for 3.5 out of 5 mins.


Dude plz stop. Your have a hard line stance on something that is debatable. If you really want to make your point: get an Askar Korazin, parse 500 fights in it, then 500 in a Hauby. Afterwords take a SS of you dropping the Askar. That would be gangsta and you would have really accomplished something.


PS
As for the math I meant to say 388 cap and 3 out of 4.5 mins. 90secs w/o it was the point.
It really isn't debatable. I told you why it sucks, and the only reply you have is just parse it. I don't cap when I have more ACC than you, so what's point in parsing? Then you seem to mix up simple things.... your total ACC (which now has three numbers to represent one number) and how to subtract 30s from 5min. Next you'll tell me "I actually meant to say Haub is better."

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 1:00pm by RedshiftOnPandy
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#61 Mar 17 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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He did say he capped acc after songs.

...

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#62 Mar 17 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Raenil wrote:
lolmadrigal in meripo. Dual march or bust!
This.

We're currently having this same discussion over on the MNK forums. About whether this guy could use Faith Torque for WS and still do the same DMG as WS Gorget.

"BECAUSE ACC IS CAPPED!!!"


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#63Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 3:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.
#64 Mar 17 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D
If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

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#65 Mar 18 2009 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D
If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

Ken.



Haha, I laughed more than I should've.
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#66 Mar 18 2009 at 2:44 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D


If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

Ken.


Never once did I say my Acc was capped. In previous posts I referred to "my acc cap" as the actual amount of acc I have. Not having anything to do with the mobs evasion. I am sure that with aggressor up my acc would be at or near cap though.

Get over it. I wear an Askar to merits and perform quite well.

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.




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#67 Mar 18 2009 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
Not against anyone that knows the math of the game.
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#68 Mar 18 2009 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science.
Yes it is, you're a troll or are a moron. Which is it?

Guranimol wrote:
Never once did I say my Acc was capped. In previous posts I referred to "my acc cap" as the actual amount of acc I have. Not having anything to do with the mobs evasion. I am sure that with aggressor up my acc would be at or near cap though.


This is one of the most idiotic things I think i've read this week. You're intentionally gimping yourself and then sticking your fingers in your ears saying "LALALLALALA NOT LISTENING" to people who know better than you do.

Clearly you're a lost cause. Feel free to keep posting this bullcrap though, I'm enjoying the +1s.

Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:18am by Nilatai
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#69 Mar 18 2009 at 3:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science.
Yes it is, you're a troll or are a moron. Which is it?


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Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:23am by milich
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#70 Mar 18 2009 at 4:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:


Clearly you're a lost cause. Feel free to keep posting this bullcrap though, I'm enjoying the +1s.

Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:18am by Nilatai
I've been missing out.

I just can't stand to quote that ****.
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#71 Mar 18 2009 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
You know, you could filter others damage, that way you will win always =D, for that matter filter you missing hits too, 100% accuracy nothing less, who needs math?, and that dumb 95% acc cap rule, winning parses is all that matters!

/sarcasm

Meh... what can I say, you are hilarious ^^v

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#72 Mar 19 2009 at 2:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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It was kind of funny. I'm hoping he debates 1+1=2 next.
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#73 Mar 19 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
You know, you could filter others damage, that way you will win always =D, for that matter filter you missing hits too, 100% accuracy nothing less, who needs math?, and that dumb 95% acc cap rule, winning parses is all that matters!

/sarcasm

Meh... what can I say, you are hilarious ^^v

Ken.

If this is all it takes to amuse you then I think its safe to say that you are either (a) between the ages of 3-12, or (b) just not that intelligent.



I on the other hand do find it incredibly amusing how this forum reacts when information is brought forth that goes against the norm. You guys are reacting as if you are just finding out the earth isn't flat. That is truly hilarious. The formulas used to predict damage outcomes are not absolute. Under the exact same circumstances every attack will not produce the exact same result every time. We have calculated expectations that have a margin for error. In terms of battle, formulas like Spirits Within could be considered absolute.

Ill be back later to check on how much fun you guys had with this one :D

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#74 Mar 19 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
Lolhai guys! Prettier is better amiright?!?!?
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#75 Mar 19 2009 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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You guys are reacting as if you are just finding out the earth isn't flat. That is truly hilarious.


Actually it's the other way around. YOU are reacting as if you jsut found out the earth isn't flat. Better comparison because you are the one thinking the earth is flat, and we (the collective) are the ones with proof that it is round. To further this horrible analogy, your argument would be like someone saying "nu uh, I don't believe your silly numbers! I need to be out in SPACE and see the earth from the MOON before I believe it is round!"
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#76 Mar 19 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I finally got around to crunching some numbers and it turns out that in the senario I will present (which is not an uncommon one in terms of outside factors) Askar body will actually outperform Hauby by a good margin.

So in a double bard party getting double march/double minuet (no reason not to be getting these two) and haste spell while being /nin (since most times you will end up with this subjob) you are getting 35% haste from outside and about 110 attack from the minuets. The person in this senario has done a lot of sky and nyzul but has not progressed further than 4-3 in CoP (high enough to get swift belt), so they have heca hands and heca feet for WS. I also had them at 5/5 DA/Berserk merits. They are eating mithkabobs at Greater Bird camp.

Gear I put together:
Perdu Voulge/Pole/nothing/Bomblet
Askar head/PCC/Fowling/Assault
Askar or Hauby/Dusk/Woods/Woods
Foragers/Swift/Byakko's/Aurum

This I think is a very solid set up that does not have either Brutal or Raja's. Though I could not figure out what I would swap into any other slots if I had the acc coming from Hauby (example: swapping fowling for mermans)so I left all the gear the same other than swapping bodies. It has 18% haste bringing total to 53%.

I did this with galka stats since thats what I am so it was easiest to check base stats for war (75 str and 69 dex as War/Nin)

So with Askar body you have 90.5 acc base, and capped with aggressor with average being 93%. The 2% DA puts you at 19% total (5 from merits, 2 from grip and 2 from body).

With hauby you are at cap acc at all times (408 acc total while 407 caps on higher birds). DA rate is at 17% (5 from merits and 2 from grip)

Ok so now to the math:

Askar Body (7 hit build)
Average attack = 699
Pdif = 1.826
Average cRatio = 1.6 (you are at cap with double minuet and berserk)
Hits/hr (calculated rounds with acc and DA's) = 998
Base damage (including fStr) = 101
Damage/hit = 161
Base WS damage (including fStr and WSC) = 137
Damage/WS = 657
Melee Damage/hr = 160678
WS Damage/hr = 93294
Total Damage/hr = 253972

Hauby (8 hit build)
Average attack = 699
Pdif = 1.826
Average cRatio = 1.6 (you are at cap with double minuet and berserk)
Hits/hr (calculated rounds with acc and DA's) = 1006
Base damage (including fStr) = 101
Damage/hit = 161
Base WS damage (including fStr and WSC) = 137
Damage/WS = 657
Melee Damage/hr = 161966
WS Damage/hr = 82125
Total Damage/hr = 244091

So like I had said, if someone had really good gear but no Raja's askar would perform better (about 4% better). Now I may have messed something up and someone please say something if I did (doing this at work so very well could have overlooked something). But I actually went on the lower end of WS damage as I did not include DA's or crits into them so Askar may actually pull further ahead in that regard due to increase WS's. But I also didnt take into account that the hauby user could add more Str into their WS set (flame rings or something) that the askar user couldnt to increase their WS damage. Please take this for what it is and by no means am I trying to promote everyone start using Askar body, I was just trying to prove my original statement that someone with really good gear minus Raja's could benefit from this.

Disclaimer: Dont be a dumbass and use this if you have a Raja's ring. As you can see by my notes the Hauby user actually got more damage than the askar user during normal melee attacks. Guranimal, you will benefit more from hauby than askar (take the suggestion if you want but just note you will do better).

Also one last thing that I dont think people think about is that when your base acc is over 82.5%, due to aggressor it doesnt give you the same returns that it normally does. Since you only see any benefit from it 40% of the time, that means that to overall acc, +1 acc only raises it by .2% (not the usual .5%).

Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:52am by KWileyStyle
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