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Askar Korazin, worth it?Follow

#52 Mar 16 2009 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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There's some forum ninja'ry going on here.

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#53 Mar 16 2009 at 11:43 PM Rating: Good
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Guranimol wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:

Let me ask you this, do you think we act this way about lolJuggy aswell? Or are you just self important? Haubergeon is better. That's a fact. We've(i use the royal "we") done the math to prove this. I don't see why you just can't accept it.


Lol wtf is this "we" ****? Is this the gangs of Allakhazam/FFXI? I know Hauby is a better piece overall. That doesn't means Askar doesn't perform just as good at times.
It's when people like you like to flaunt in the face of long established fact. Saying sh*t like "Yeah but if you owned one you'd think it was great", which is retarded.

I was surprisingly nice in my post, considering how stupid that was. Smiley: mad

Also, i doubt Askar will perform as well as Hauby, even at Capped Acc.

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 3:44am by Nilatai
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#54 Mar 17 2009 at 2:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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#55 Mar 17 2009 at 4:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you think that askar is going to outperform hauby when you have raja's then you are dumb. All I was trying to say is that in a situation where someone has really good gear but no Raja's to make a 6 hit, they could create that 6 hit and still have good acc against birds (probably around 93% total). Is this truely better than a 7 hit with hauby, honestly I dont know as I havent had time to do the math. When I get some time I'll look into that.
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#56 Mar 17 2009 at 5:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

Hauby
10 acc, 5 DEX
13.75 acc
at least 7.34% Dot (non capped situations)

Askar
2 attack, 2 DA
~.5 Dot from attack and at best 1.82% DoT from DA
at best 2.32~% DoT

Difference 5.02% DoT

But my accuracy is capped/near cap?
If it isn't 93%+ hauby is still better.


I was gonna try out the DA math myself this morning, but this helps.

With as much as people argue around here about silly % like 3% damage increase, I am not sure why you wouldn't use something (Askar Korazin) which would give you +2% DoT when you KNEW your accuracy was capped.

As far as King Arthro, I couldn't tell you, but as redshift says, fortitude axe is the end-all be-all for doing damage while keeping mass amount of TP up while /dnc. If there was no time limit, I'd suggest joy/shield, but Fort Axe would be a must here.
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#57Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 6:09 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Dude plz stop. Your have a hard line stance on something that is debatable. If you really want to make your point: get an Askar Korazin, parse 500 fights in it, then 500 in a Hauby. Afterwords take a SS of you dropping the Askar. That would be gangsta and you would have really accomplished something.
#58Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 6:14 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Funny how you can prove my point in an attempt to make me look stupid.
#59 Mar 17 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Math isn't debatable.
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#60 Mar 17 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
RedshiftOnPandy wrote:
You don't cap at 381 (don't include Hasso into ACC total). You know why? Because I don't cap at 400. There is no reason to use Askar over Haubergeon. And I don't think you understand how Aggressor merits work (or high school math) if you think you have it up for 3.5 out of 5 mins.


Dude plz stop. Your have a hard line stance on something that is debatable. If you really want to make your point: get an Askar Korazin, parse 500 fights in it, then 500 in a Hauby. Afterwords take a SS of you dropping the Askar. That would be gangsta and you would have really accomplished something.


PS
As for the math I meant to say 388 cap and 3 out of 4.5 mins. 90secs w/o it was the point.
It really isn't debatable. I told you why it sucks, and the only reply you have is just parse it. I don't cap when I have more ACC than you, so what's point in parsing? Then you seem to mix up simple things.... your total ACC (which now has three numbers to represent one number) and how to subtract 30s from 5min. Next you'll tell me "I actually meant to say Haub is better."

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 1:00pm by RedshiftOnPandy
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#61 Mar 17 2009 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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He did say he capped acc after songs.

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#62 Mar 17 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Raenil wrote:
lolmadrigal in meripo. Dual march or bust!
This.

We're currently having this same discussion over on the MNK forums. About whether this guy could use Faith Torque for WS and still do the same DMG as WS Gorget.

"BECAUSE ACC IS CAPPED!!!"


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#63Guranimol, Posted: Mar 17 2009 at 3:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.
#64 Mar 17 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D
If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

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#65 Mar 18 2009 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D
If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

Ken.



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#66 Mar 18 2009 at 2:44 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science. The margin for error is large enough that my acc is acceptable (for me) when I wear an Askar K. for merits. The last party I had was March + Min Corsair roll + fighters. 92.27% acc. Not capped acc but oh well parsed 33% dmg.

Kparse is .sdf file and I cant open it but I do have the SS.

Again this was never a Hauby vs Askar debate. I just joined in b/c ppl were trashing it.

On another note if E.BOdy drops from Odin 2nite or in the near future (LS's 1st time) and I get one and I promise I will stop wearing Askar :D


If someone who use askar over hauby with "Magically Capped" accuracy, gets E.Body I will cry... what are you going to do next, replace it for Ares in when you "cap" accuracy?

Ken.


Never once did I say my Acc was capped. In previous posts I referred to "my acc cap" as the actual amount of acc I have. Not having anything to do with the mobs evasion. I am sure that with aggressor up my acc would be at or near cap though.

Get over it. I wear an Askar to merits and perform quite well.

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.




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#67 Mar 18 2009 at 2:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
Not against anyone that knows the math of the game.
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#68 Mar 18 2009 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science.
Yes it is, you're a troll or are a moron. Which is it?

Guranimol wrote:
Never once did I say my Acc was capped. In previous posts I referred to "my acc cap" as the actual amount of acc I have. Not having anything to do with the mobs evasion. I am sure that with aggressor up my acc would be at or near cap though.


This is one of the most idiotic things I think i've read this week. You're intentionally gimping yourself and then sticking your fingers in your ears saying "LALALLALALA NOT LISTENING" to people who know better than you do.

Clearly you're a lost cause. Feel free to keep posting this bullcrap though, I'm enjoying the +1s.

Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:18am by Nilatai
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#69 Mar 18 2009 at 3:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Math isn't debatable.

I'm sorry but I beg to differ. FFxi is not an exact science.
Yes it is, you're a troll or are a moron. Which is it?


time traveler. in 05 or 06 or so, Parses Decided Everything because people didn't bother reading the translations of studio gobli on VZX's page or (gasp) doing any tests themselves.

Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:23am by milich
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#70 Mar 18 2009 at 4:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:


Clearly you're a lost cause. Feel free to keep posting this bullcrap though, I'm enjoying the +1s.

Edited, Mar 18th 2009 7:18am by Nilatai
I've been missing out.

I just can't stand to quote that ****.
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#71 Mar 18 2009 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
You know, you could filter others damage, that way you will win always =D, for that matter filter you missing hits too, 100% accuracy nothing less, who needs math?, and that dumb 95% acc cap rule, winning parses is all that matters!

/sarcasm

Meh... what can I say, you are hilarious ^^v

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#72 Mar 19 2009 at 2:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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It was kind of funny. I'm hoping he debates 1+1=2 next.
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#73 Mar 19 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:

If you ppl on this forum want to argue that I would have parsed higher with Hauby, I can accept that, but I will always be satisfied with just winning the parse.
You know, you could filter others damage, that way you will win always =D, for that matter filter you missing hits too, 100% accuracy nothing less, who needs math?, and that dumb 95% acc cap rule, winning parses is all that matters!

/sarcasm

Meh... what can I say, you are hilarious ^^v

Ken.

If this is all it takes to amuse you then I think its safe to say that you are either (a) between the ages of 3-12, or (b) just not that intelligent.



I on the other hand do find it incredibly amusing how this forum reacts when information is brought forth that goes against the norm. You guys are reacting as if you are just finding out the earth isn't flat. That is truly hilarious. The formulas used to predict damage outcomes are not absolute. Under the exact same circumstances every attack will not produce the exact same result every time. We have calculated expectations that have a margin for error. In terms of battle, formulas like Spirits Within could be considered absolute.

Ill be back later to check on how much fun you guys had with this one :D

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#74 Mar 19 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
Lolhai guys! Prettier is better amiright?!?!?
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#75 Mar 19 2009 at 6:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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You guys are reacting as if you are just finding out the earth isn't flat. That is truly hilarious.


Actually it's the other way around. YOU are reacting as if you jsut found out the earth isn't flat. Better comparison because you are the one thinking the earth is flat, and we (the collective) are the ones with proof that it is round. To further this horrible analogy, your argument would be like someone saying "nu uh, I don't believe your silly numbers! I need to be out in SPACE and see the earth from the MOON before I believe it is round!"
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#76 Mar 19 2009 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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So I finally got around to crunching some numbers and it turns out that in the senario I will present (which is not an uncommon one in terms of outside factors) Askar body will actually outperform Hauby by a good margin.

So in a double bard party getting double march/double minuet (no reason not to be getting these two) and haste spell while being /nin (since most times you will end up with this subjob) you are getting 35% haste from outside and about 110 attack from the minuets. The person in this senario has done a lot of sky and nyzul but has not progressed further than 4-3 in CoP (high enough to get swift belt), so they have heca hands and heca feet for WS. I also had them at 5/5 DA/Berserk merits. They are eating mithkabobs at Greater Bird camp.

Gear I put together:
Perdu Voulge/Pole/nothing/Bomblet
Askar head/PCC/Fowling/Assault
Askar or Hauby/Dusk/Woods/Woods
Foragers/Swift/Byakko's/Aurum

This I think is a very solid set up that does not have either Brutal or Raja's. Though I could not figure out what I would swap into any other slots if I had the acc coming from Hauby (example: swapping fowling for mermans)so I left all the gear the same other than swapping bodies. It has 18% haste bringing total to 53%.

I did this with galka stats since thats what I am so it was easiest to check base stats for war (75 str and 69 dex as War/Nin)

So with Askar body you have 90.5 acc base, and capped with aggressor with average being 93%. The 2% DA puts you at 19% total (5 from merits, 2 from grip and 2 from body).

With hauby you are at cap acc at all times (408 acc total while 407 caps on higher birds). DA rate is at 17% (5 from merits and 2 from grip)

Ok so now to the math:

Askar Body (7 hit build)
Average attack = 699
Pdif = 1.826
Average cRatio = 1.6 (you are at cap with double minuet and berserk)
Hits/hr (calculated rounds with acc and DA's) = 998
Base damage (including fStr) = 101
Damage/hit = 161
Base WS damage (including fStr and WSC) = 137
Damage/WS = 657
Melee Damage/hr = 160678
WS Damage/hr = 93294
Total Damage/hr = 253972

Hauby (8 hit build)
Average attack = 699
Pdif = 1.826
Average cRatio = 1.6 (you are at cap with double minuet and berserk)
Hits/hr (calculated rounds with acc and DA's) = 1006
Base damage (including fStr) = 101
Damage/hit = 161
Base WS damage (including fStr and WSC) = 137
Damage/WS = 657
Melee Damage/hr = 161966
WS Damage/hr = 82125
Total Damage/hr = 244091

So like I had said, if someone had really good gear but no Raja's askar would perform better (about 4% better). Now I may have messed something up and someone please say something if I did (doing this at work so very well could have overlooked something). But I actually went on the lower end of WS damage as I did not include DA's or crits into them so Askar may actually pull further ahead in that regard due to increase WS's. But I also didnt take into account that the hauby user could add more Str into their WS set (flame rings or something) that the askar user couldnt to increase their WS damage. Please take this for what it is and by no means am I trying to promote everyone start using Askar body, I was just trying to prove my original statement that someone with really good gear minus Raja's could benefit from this.

Disclaimer: Dont be a dumbass and use this if you have a Raja's ring. As you can see by my notes the Hauby user actually got more damage than the askar user during normal melee attacks. Guranimal, you will benefit more from hauby than askar (take the suggestion if you want but just note you will do better).

Also one last thing that I dont think people think about is that when your base acc is over 82.5%, due to aggressor it doesnt give you the same returns that it normally does. Since you only see any benefit from it 40% of the time, that means that to overall acc, +1 acc only raises it by .2% (not the usual .5%).

Edited, Mar 19th 2009 10:52am by KWileyStyle
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#77 Mar 19 2009 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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But if you have Rajas!
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#78 Mar 19 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know, I know :)
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#79 Mar 19 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
I'm an urn fight and a Promathia fight (and an assload of cutscenes) away from my Rajas. Alledgedly I'm getting help after Sky guards tonight. I also got a Hauby +1 recently so I'm not sweating my lack of Askar too much yet. I do want the helm though (and the legs for my DRG until Homam).

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#80 Mar 19 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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KWileyStyle wrote:
Though I could not figure out what I would swap into any other slots if I had the acc coming from Hauby (example: swapping fowling for mermans)so I left all the gear the same other than swapping bodies. It has 18% haste bringing total to 53%.

Hauby (8 hit build)
Average attack = 699
Pdif = 1.826
Average cRatio = 1.6 (you are at cap with double minuet and berserk)
Hits/hr (calculated rounds with acc and DA's) = 1006
Base damage (including fStr) = 101
Damage/hit = 161
Base WS damage (including fStr and WSC) = 137
Damage/WS = 657
Melee Damage/hr = 161966
WS Damage/hr = 82125
Total Damage/hr = 244091

In your scenario, you'd swap askar hands to dusk, and askar head to turban, bringing the hauby set up, to 20% haste, for total 55%...

504*.45= 226.8 delay
1 hour = 216000 delay I believe (60*60*60)
216000/226.8 = 952.38 base hits
952 * 1.17 (DA) = 1113.84 hits
Acc: 408 as you listed -9 dex, 9*.75= 6.75acc loss 408-6.75 = 401.25Acc
92% agg down, 95% up 93%Avg
1113 * .93 (acc) = 1035.09
Corrected Hits/hr: 1035
1035*161 = 166,635 melee dmg
1035/8 = 129 WS
129*657 = 84,753

So adjusted:
Hauby (8 hit build)
Melee Damage/hr = 166,635
WS Damage/hr = 84753
Total Damage/hr = 251,388

So while Askar still edges out (assuming no rajas, no brutal, and 8 GA merits)
The gap is a bit smaller. 2,584 dmg over the course of a '100% efficient' hour, with the above set conditions, and assuming that someone who was at 92% Acc w/o aggressor was still using hauby while aggressor was up for some reason? Which was already answered on the previous page, that Byrnie would be the correct answer.

So, can anyone point me to a tutorial for /spellcast macros?
I don't seem to understand how to create two separate sets of armor, for aggressor up/down, and not ruin it with my WS gear swaps. I read the ones the website has as a display for War's, but they only seem to be WS/TP gear swaps.
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#81 Mar 19 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Guranimol wrote:
I on the other hand do find it incredibly amusing how this forum reacts when information is brought forth that goes against the norm.


it sounds so nice and reasonable when you say "against the norm". it makes you seem creative, and all of us seem conservative.

unfortunately, in this context, "against the norm" means "against accepted mathematical norms". you will get an outraged reaction when you try to argue against 1+1=2, because 1+1 does =2, and anyone who knows what they're talking about and disagrees is stupid. make sense?

as for the rest of your post, learn what an average is. don't people go to school anymore?
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#82 Mar 19 2009 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
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as for the rest of your post, learn what an average is. don't people go to school anymore?
Not in the US. Smiley: sly
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#83 Mar 19 2009 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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Do you guys in the US learn world geography yet? lol.
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#84 Mar 19 2009 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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If this is all it takes to amuse you then I think its safe to say that you are either (a) between the ages of 3-12, or (b) just not that intelligent.


Im no math guru nor am paying attention to what you are saying but this argument is as intelligent as your delicate little brain who cannot perceive information(or interact with one another).


Didn't we all established the fact that parses is only good to compare to yourself and not to everybody else? You use your parse to decide which gear you should wear when you have something ridiculously close: like a ninja with blade:jin choosing between Rasetsu boots or Hume rse. A lot of people would suggest hume rse but my friend actually found out the atk benefits him more because of everything else he is wearing.

Winning parses are lame. As long as you try and do competitive damage, all the DDs should be around 1 or .5% below or above one another. It's those time when you see you are dealing 30% of the damage overall, at that point it is your party who suck - not you.
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#85 Mar 19 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I never had askar hands on in either gear set so by adding turban you are going to 19% haste, not 20%. Byrnie actually lowers your damage in this senario because cRatio is already capped by a fair margin, adding attack will do nothing to your damage. Byrnie actually has 2 less Str so if that causes you to go down in fStr or in WSC then you are losing damage.

I have seen this senario before guys. A guy in my LS was very active in Nyzul and Sky so he had all the good gear from those events. He didnt finish CoP becuase he had 2 broken statics and more bad luck than anyone could imagine on it. He even brought his alt char up to his main with another static (which I was in) that broke up as soon as we got to where he was (CoP 4-3) because 2 members quit the game and while we were trying to find reps the 2 other memebers said "F' IT" and went on without us.

Again, I'm not trying to say always use this or use that. All I'm trying to get across is that it might be a rare situation, but it does happen. Stop trying to act like it never does. And people always talk about the slight increases as you get better and better gear, this happens to be one of those instances.

And if someone comes on here and says "Quit slacking and get a Raja's!"...F**K YOU! Try having a job, school and a family and get 4 hours to wait for enough people to have pity on you to help with Sacrarium or any other those other long *** CoP missions.
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#86 Mar 19 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai Wrote:
Quote:
milich wrote:
as for the rest of your post, learn what an average is. don't people go to school anymore?
Quote:
Not in the US.


Careful there Nila, just because some ppl from the states aren't well educated doesn't mean we're all uneducated. If you want to insult OP that's fine but don't insult innocent bystanders who've probably forgotten more math than you've ever seen (speaking for myself here).

Although I understand why you guys jumped all over the Gura and the idea that he provoked it, there is some merit to his complaint about the "we" in here. Some of you guys just gang up and go ape sh*t on people and insult them incessantly until they don't bother using the forums anymore. I tend to prefer how Kenage and Kwiley and Solrain just let the math speak for itself and refrain from the adolescent gang rape of people that **** them off. Maybe they're older or maybe just more emotionally mature.

Point is: if you want to blast posters out of the forums for good be my guest. But don't insult an entire culture whose members also use the forums like you are some superior form of life. I don't personally know all the math of the game so I come on here to get information to save myself the time. But its @#%^ing algebra for christ sake. I could teach it to myself in an afternoon. The only possible complication lies in the definition of a variable or decimal truncation. As someone whose had four courses in calculus, linear algeba, differential equations etc I might just go teach it to myself so I don't have to sift thru the juvenile character assassination that dominates the thread until Ken or Kwiley or milich actually posts some math and the discussion turns to beer.

Soooo. Maybe you are some kind of genius and you're fury is at least explainable but why don't you keep your insults targeted. I've yet to see you post any @#%^ing math either and besides that gear guide you wrote, about 95% of what you post is inconsequential comments about clip art or e-peen ranting insults that just make it harder to find information. There now i feel better.

Edit 1: Clarifying the quote.
Edit 2: Couldn't help myself, had to speak my mind.





Edited, Mar 19th 2009 8:11pm by DodiOnMidgard
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#87 Mar 19 2009 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
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LordMnementh wrote:
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You guys are reacting as if you are just finding out the earth isn't flat. That is truly hilarious.


Actually it's the other way around. YOU are reacting as if you jsut found out the earth isn't flat. Better comparison because you are the one thinking the earth is flat, and we (the collective) are the ones with proof that it is round. To further this horrible analogy, your argument would be like someone saying "nu uh, I don't believe your silly numbers! I need to be out in SPACE and see the earth from the MOON before I believe it is round!"


Actually my argument is pretty accurate. Unlike most of you, I have actually worn both pieces(hauby for over 2yrs), and have come to the conclusion that the results are close enough to warrant further use. If I put on Askar and was below 90% I wouldn't use it; simple as that. I am talking about merits here. I am not suggesting that the average non merited War go fight Kirin with an Askar body.



Haletxamehk wrote:

Im no math guru nor am paying attention to what you are saying but this argument is as intelligent as your delicate little brain who cannot perceive information(or interact with one another).

Winning parses are lame. As long as you try and do competitive damage, all the DDs should be around 1 or .5% below or above one another. It's those time when you see you are dealing 30% of the damage overall, at that point it is your party who suck - not you.


I doubt any one would ever confuse you for a math guru.

When you have the desire to get lots of IS/Merits parsing is what can make a merit party bearable.
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#88 Mar 19 2009 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Do you guys in the US learn world geography yet? lol.
Yes, you pompous ********.
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#89 Mar 19 2009 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
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KWileyStyle wrote:
I never had askar hands on in either gear set so by adding turban you are going to 19% haste, not 20%.

Ahh, you're correct, my apology.
If 100% capped with hauby and agressor down, tehn you drop a woodsman for blitz, and it's the same 2% increase in haste then, all math still applies.

It's just a very small window where askar out performs.
Lacking key items for War, that push you into more Acc than you would normally use, taking the Acc on hauby out of the picture. I mean, at least to me, it seems pretty basic that if you're capped on accuracy at all times, hauby isn't very valuable, because it just comes out as a Str+5 Att+10 piece, which is less than Byrnie. (exception for the dbl brd + zerk description you've laid out, I'm just speaking in general now) But for that scenario to come up, it's a very small window of oppurtunity. Capped merits, no brutal, no rajas, with a dbl brd party, and still only come out ahead by 2k dmg over an hour. It's an unrealistic comparison, very a very rare and specific scenario. Actually, I'm curious of the Fourth Toparak + Hauby scenario vs askar in teh case of no rajas, because technically, that's what your 2 real options would have been. I'll do tha math in a sec, but for people who understand the fstr, pdif etc, can you answer this for me:

Assuming capped accuracy, instead of Hauby VS Askar, would Zahak's mail make an appearance in the debate? (Even our old lolosode, lil cheaper, easier to get hands on)

Would the Zahaks Mail:
[Body] All Races
DEF:55 STR+10 DEX+10 Evasion-20 Critical hit rate +3%
LV 71 WAR PLD DRK BST DRG


Out perform Askar in capped Accuracy?
Or out perform Byrnie+1?

I guess my "real" question is, I'm looking for the most optimal set up to use for my "aggressor up" gearset, where my Hauby is overkill. As stated earlier, I was going to just use Askar, but was informed Byrnie would outperform, which is great, because should save me a lot of shouting, time in nyzul and frustrastion of being out lotted, lol. So I'm curious how the 3% crit and 10Str compare to bynie's (or brynie +1 as well) 3str and 20att (5str/25att for +1) in the average party.

Meaning 1 Brd using Dbl march, haste spell, 17% DA rate, 19% haste, Perdu Voulge w/ Rajas, and an assumed 93% hit rate avg.

Perdu / Pole / X / Bomblet
Walmart / PCC / Assault / Brutal
Hauby / Dusk / Rajas / Ultha
Cerb / Swift / Byakko / Aurum

Is what I currently use full time.
For Aggressor up, I'm looking for a new Body, and I'll prolly Macro in Blitz Ring over Ultha's as well.

I'm curious if the new body should be Zahak or Byrnie+1.
(Although Ares, Aurum, HachiRyu, Shadow Breastplate are ****, they're out of realistic range for me. Well, Aurum isn't but, it's ugly.

Which... Actually brings another question... Wouldn't Aurum out perform Askar body even in the situation KWileyStyle layed out? Meaning even in that tiny window of chance at a hope Askar had, just got closed up. Leaving the last use for Askar, the pole arm X hit on birds as /sam?


Apologies for the scattered brain thoughts.
ADD, go figure.

Edit: KWileyStyle, if you post the new WS dmg Avg, and Dmg per hit for Fourth Toporak, I'll do the rest of the math, just out of curiosity, but I don't quite understand pdif, fstr, wpn base dmg and those higher levels of calculation, to figure that stuff out. You give me the numbers, I can plug them in, lol.

Edited, Mar 19th 2009 11:27pm by Gerkin
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#90 Mar 20 2009 at 1:15 AM Rating: Good
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Guranimol wrote:
If this is all it takes to amuse you then I think its safe to say that you are either (a) between the ages of 3-12, or (b) just not that intelligent.
I'm 27, can't speak about my intelligence though!, but probably you are right since I can't put two sentence together w/o making a typo or grammar mistake - -;

However I found KWileyStyle propousal worth to post again!

There are situations when askar can outdamage hauby(like the one he presents), hence is a situational piece.

If non-carrier sams could use it and get the all important 6-hit build, wars could do it in the same way to get a 7-hit, however I want to point out(even if it seems obvious) that those 5 Store TP are winning the comparison, not the DA or the +2 attack(difference against hauby) because as I posted before those differences hardly archive for ~2 hit% difference(~4acc) or 1/3 of hauby's DoT difference against askar.

Although for those out there with rajas using it over hauby since they can win parses... well... it a shame sometimes that nice gear reach the wrong hands.

Sincerely.

Ken.

edit: see what I meant in my first sentence, I needed to come back and fix a typo - -;

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 9:29am by kenage
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#91 Mar 20 2009 at 2:16 AM Rating: Default
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kenage wrote:
Guranimol wrote:
If this is all it takes to amuse you then I think its safe to say that you are either (a) between the ages of 3-12, or (b) just not that intelligent.
I'm 27, can't speak about my intelligence though!, but probably you are right since I can't put two sentence together w/o making a typo or grammar mistake - -;

However I found KWileyStyle propousal worth to post again!

There are situations when askar can outdamage hauby(like the one he presents), hence is a situational piece.

If non-carrier sams could use it and get the all important 6-hit build, wars could do it in the same way to get a 7-hit, however I want to point out(even if it seems obvious) that those 5 Store TP are winning the comparison, not the DA or the +2 attack(difference against hauby) because as I posted before those differences hardly archive for ~2 hit% difference(~4acc) or 1/3 of hauby's DoT difference against askar.

Although for those out there with rajas using it over hauby since they can win parses... well... it a shame sometimes that nice gear reach the wrong hands.

Sincerely.

Ken.

edit: see what I meant in my first sentence, I needed to come back and fix a typo - -;


lol I hope you dont take my little attempt at humor to heart. I don't know you personally so understand that i'm not being serious. The negativity from some of these posters must have rubbed off on me.

Anyway the subject has grown stale. Since i'm using Nin more and plan to lvl sam (49) I may just grab a hauby + 1 and leave the Askar in the MH.
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#92 Mar 20 2009 at 4:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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The problem with Fourth Toporok is that since it has 474 Delay you cant get the x-hit build in the same way. To 6 hit it you need Stp +30 which is doable with Aurum body, Raja's, Brutal, Chiv Chain, Ecophoria and /Sam, but thats a whole different story.

If you want the numbers anyways (going with double minuet so capped cRatio):
Attack = 149
WS Damage = 619 (no DA or crits)

Aurum Cuirass does not seem as easy to obtain as Askar Body due to nyzul only needing 6 people and Tier 4 ZNM's usually needing more (not sure how many you need for Tyger but I will just assume its in the 15ish range).

With no math done I would assume that Byrnie +1 would do the best as long as you are not getting double minuet (only 1 brd in party doing double march). If you have a 2x brd party then I would go with Zahak's Mail as long as you have Raja's to create a 6 hit (/Sam) or 7 hit (/Nin). If not then I would go with Aurum Cuirass due to stats being close but giving you the increased hit build which should pull it ahead.

I actually think that Aurum will pull ahead of Bynie +1 in a single brd party (getting double march) if you dont have Raja's since it will increase your hit build (on a 504 delay GA). Byrnie will really only have 7-8 attack more after adding the Str into both bodies, but Aurum has 11 more Dex (which is 7-8 acc and can up crit tier).

Man I feel I have been posting a lot in here lol. I guess trying to defend my fairly rare senario is a ***** of a task. Oh well, I love you all :)

Edit: Oh yeah, in response to Dodi, figured I'd put that I'm 23 but I am married and have a 2 year-old son and have another due soon so I pretty much have been aged to about mid 30's lol.


Edited, Mar 20th 2009 7:45am by KWileyStyle
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#93 Mar 20 2009 at 4:20 AM Rating: Good
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DodiOnMidgard wrote:
Nilatai Wrote:
Quote:
milich wrote:
as for the rest of your post, learn what an average is. don't people go to school anymore?
Quote:
Not in the US.


Careful there Nila, just because some ppl from the states aren't well educated doesn't mean we're all uneducated. If you want to insult OP that's fine but don't insult innocent bystanders who've probably forgotten more math than you've ever seen (speaking for myself here).

Although I understand why you guys jumped all over the Gura and the idea that he provoked it, there is some merit to his complaint about the "we" in here. Some of you guys just gang up and go ape sh*t on people and insult them incessantly until they don't bother using the forums anymore. I tend to prefer how Kenage and Kwiley and Solrain just let the math speak for itself and refrain from the adolescent gang rape of people that **** them off. Maybe they're older or maybe just more emotionally mature.

Point is: if you want to blast posters out of the forums for good be my guest. But don't insult an entire culture whose members also use the forums like you are some superior form of life. I don't personally know all the math of the game so I come on here to get information to save myself the time. But its @#%^ing algebra for christ sake. I could teach it to myself in an afternoon. The only possible complication lies in the definition of a variable or decimal truncation. As someone whose had four courses in calculus, linear algeba, differential equations etc I might just go teach it to myself so I don't have to sift thru the juvenile character assassination that dominates the thread until Ken or Kwiley or milich actually posts some math and the discussion turns to beer.

Soooo. Maybe you are some kind of genius and you're fury is at least explainable but why don't you keep your insults targeted. I've yet to see you post any @#%^ing math either and besides that gear guide you wrote, about 95% of what you post is inconsequential comments about clip art or e-peen ranting insults that just make it harder to find information. There now i feel better.

Edit 1: Clarifying the quote.
Edit 2: Couldn't help myself, had to speak my mind.
Well ****, I didn't know I enspired such rage in people.

The reason I get angry is the fact that people ignore math. "Well Maybe be that the math shows it's better BUT I LIKE TO DO WHATEVER I WANT AND YOU GUYS JUST CIRCLEJERK". I may not tinker with damage forumlae but i'm busy learning Physics, Chemistry and Biology for my real life qualifications. Like you said, it's not hard, it's just algebra. Milich (One of the more prominent people on these forums for math) isn't really interested in math, being a Psychologist, or something? I forget. Nevermind.

We can rely on people like Milich/bsphil to show how and why pieces of gear are better than one another. For example why Juggy sucks, which has been linked.

Also, you seem to have missed the point entirely. You should know to take whatever is said on the Internet with a pinch of salt, don't get so touchy. Yes the generalisation is that America = Stupid, I don't get so easily offended when someone comments on British dentistry. Neither are aplicable to entire nations.

Yes, alot of my posts are mindless +1s. Once a topic has been answered it's fair game to be derailed in my opinon. Seeing as most questions asked these days are "Hey is XX gear better than YY hear in ZZ situation?" questions that have been asked maybe 50 times before. I love how you also singled me out. As if i have the highest number of +1s in any given forum(I think we know who wins that prize). Smiley: rolleyes

If you don't like my posts, don't read them. I don't really care to be honest. I contribute in my own way. While I may not post huge mathematical formulae I generally can tell you which gear to use and why.

Whatever.

Edited, Mar 20th 2009 8:28am by Nilatai
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#94 Mar 20 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Milich (One of the more prominent people on these forums for math) isn't really interested in math, being a Psychologist, or something?
IIRC he's a Philosophy and English double major.
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#95 Mar 20 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Because of this thread, I am completely not lotting first Askar Body and I am totally letting my career blm no-rajas drk friend lot it before I ever even attempt. Plus, I am looking to buy a berk +1 right now, so I doubt the Askar would EVER benefit me more than Berk +1.


Edited, Mar 20th 2009 11:59am by LordMnementh
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#96 Mar 20 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah the only reason I want one of these is because I'm leveling Drg. Please be nice to your Drg friends and let them have one over you, they can use it a **** of a lot more than you can. Even Sam's have more of a right to this than War's, take it if it falls but don't be a jerk.
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#97 Mar 20 2009 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
Milich (One of the more prominent people on these forums for math) isn't really interested in math, being a Psychologist, or something?
IIRC he's a Philosophy and English double major.
That'll be it, I was tired. Smiley: glare
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#98 Mar 20 2009 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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I learned a lot more philosophy in HS than I have in first year intro to philosophy, makes me sad.
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#99 Mar 20 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Because of this thread, I am completely not lotting first Askar Body and I am totally letting my career blm no-rajas drk friend lot it before I ever even attempt. Plus, I am looking to buy a berk +1 right now, so I doubt the Askar would EVER benefit me more than Berk +1.


Should get a Haubergeon +1, just in case you level a non Hauberk job >.>b

Also, I have a Haubergeon+1, and, as I've said earlier, I do still find a use for Askar...at least for now XD
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#100 Mar 20 2009 at 1:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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minor in linguistics too;;. MA in "humanities" which means philosophy with a couple linguistics classes. weird.

redshift,

intro to phil courses are universally bad. the only way good philosophy can be done is with extreme rigor (otherwise it can't elevate past talking to a drunk or a pothead at a party). this precludes survey course; ;. a real intro to phil should just take some reasonably specified topic and go as far as possible toward exhausting it over the course of the semester/quarter. may not get too much general knowledge from this, but it's a better "introduction" to philosophy than a survey course. in my opinion-_-.
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#101 Mar 20 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Isiolia wrote:
Quote:
Because of this thread, I am completely not lotting first Askar Body and I am totally letting my career blm no-rajas drk friend lot it before I ever even attempt. Plus, I am looking to buy a berk +1 right now, so I doubt the Askar would EVER benefit me more than Berk +1.


Should get a Haubergeon +1, just in case you level a non Hauberk job >.>b

Also, I have a Haubergeon+1, and, as I've said earlier, I do still find a use for Askar...at least for now XD


I don't plan on leveling a hauby only job for a while. I think I'll pass on spending the extra mil in savings on jobs I don't have and "lesser stats" for now. :p
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Provoke the foe and break it in half.
Coincidentally, that's how I met my wife.
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