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Quick Steel Cyclone QuestionFollow

#1 Mar 13 2009 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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I have seen this somewhere but never really offically...does steel cyclone have a big acc/pdif bonus like Sam's Y/G/K? If this is the case I really need to rework my SC gear for when non /Thf.
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#2 Mar 13 2009 at 2:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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As far as I can tell it definitely has decent base accuracy. Can't say if it's up to par with The Big Three, as I have no experience with them, but I can't think of the last time I've missed using Steel Cyclone ... the times I've actually used it. Smiley: laugh
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#3 Mar 13 2009 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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Problem is, though, Gaxie, you're a MEGATRON'S TORMENT addict. XD

On topic, though, I'd assume it does have some kind of boost to it, but that's probably something to do with it being a single-hit WS. I believe it was Bsphil who told me about single-hit WS behaving a bit funny...
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#4 Mar 13 2009 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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Lucinus wrote:
Problem is, though, Gaxie, you're a MEGATRON'S TORMENT addict. XD

On topic, though, I'd assume it does have some kind of boost to it, but that's probably something to do with it being a single-hit WS. I believe it was bsphil who told me about single-hit WS behaving a bit funny...
Sounds like bphil. It's a shame MNK dosn't get any WS like this, **** always at least 2hit WS'. Smiley: glare
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#5 Mar 13 2009 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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I missed 3 Full Breaks in a row on a campaign mob yesterday. True story.

I then decided not to be lazy anymore and switched my /dnc ws macro back to Raging Rush... **** sturdy axe beaking.

(I AM ONLY 160 WSP AWAY OH EM GEE ; ; Q Q)

Anyway, I doubt it has any kind of native attk boosts. I have done some pretty crappy Steel Cyclones at 100TP, and I never see awesome returns on it usually since I don't /thf. But I'd definitely swap every piece of non acc-str/attk gear into it anyway. I have never had much of an acc problem with it.

Edited, Mar 13th 2009 11:01am by LordMnementh
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#6 Mar 13 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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I believe it does, on a mob like JoL with minimal buffs Steel Cyclone @ 100 TP often outperforms a full return RR or KJ, which shouldn't happen. (Are you the same poster who just made the post on the BG Randomer Question Thread? I just responded there with the same answer lol)
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#7 Mar 13 2009 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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No I'm not on BG so it wasnt me :) Thanks for the replies so far. I don't use SC too much because my setup for it has been rather bleh. I'm just hoping it has the acc boost at least so I know for sure I can dump my acc gear in it for str/vit.
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#8 Mar 13 2009 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

(I AM ONLY 160 WSP AWAY OH EM GEE ; ; Q Q)


I hope you're not as sincerely disappointed as I was when I got it.
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bsphil wrote:
I suppose I could also call it "smallifying numberitude" but that sounds incredibly gay. Like, milich youtube playlist gay.
#9 Mar 13 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
mazmaz wrote:
Quote:

(I AM ONLY 160 WSP AWAY OH EM GEE ; ; Q Q)


I hope you're not as sincerely disappointed as I was when I got it.

Just a new graphic and I'll be happy...
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#10 Mar 13 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Just a new graphic and I'll be happy...


I actually use KJ quite a bit, it does pretty well, more or less interchangeable with RR depending on the mobs. It's not like SC, where it's very situational.

Quote:
I believe it does, on a mob like JoL with minimal buffs Steel Cyclone @ 100 TP often outperforms a full return RR or KJ, which shouldn't happen. (Are you the same poster who just made the post on the BG Randomer Question Thread? I just responded there with the same answer lol)


I've seen better average results from SC on things like Dynamis Xarcabard mobs (NMs particularly) too. Not sure if it's simply the nature of a highly modded single hit WS, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was some sort of bonus too.

I pretty much swap out ACC for STR/VIT wherever I have gear for 'em, doesn't seem to hurt it, but I do have full GAxe merits and all that.
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#11 Mar 13 2009 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
Quote:

(I AM ONLY 160 WSP AWAY OH EM GEE ; ; Q Q)


I hope you're not as sincerely disappointed as I was when I got it.

Just a new graphic and I'll be happy...


Yeah, I am not expecting something any more amazing than Raging Rush or Steel Cyclone. But the animation is awesome. Also, it will be nice to have a WS to use for the times I go above 100 tp. And something I can light chain with for GA.
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#12 Mar 13 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
edit: this post is obsolete.


Edited, Mar 13th 2009 4:06pm by MojoVIII
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#13 Mar 13 2009 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
edit: this post is obsolete.


Edited, Mar 13th 2009 4:06pm by MojoVIII
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Stupid lack of apostrophes.
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#14 Mar 15 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a situational ws so when its used Warriors Charge and aggressor should be used. The guaranteed xtra hit + aggressor makes it a hard ws to miss.
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#15 Mar 16 2009 at 2:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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LordMnementh wrote:
Grandmother MojoVIII wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
Quote:

(I AM ONLY 160 WSP AWAY OH EM GEE ; ; Q Q)
I hope you're not as sincerely disappointed as I was when I got it.
Just a new graphic and I'll be happy...
Yeah, I am not expecting something any more amazing than Raging Rush or Steel Cyclone. But the animation is awesome. Also, it will be nice to have a WS to use for the times I go above 100 tp. And something I can light chain with for GA.
Kinda how I felt with Megatron's Torment. Awesome graphic, meh aftertaste.
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#16 Mar 16 2009 at 9:41 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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KJ is finally a good 2hr g.axe WS, for what it's worth.

And yes, the first hit of a WS generally has capped accuracy. I'll use SC when I'm fighting something particularly evasive (aggressor down and a lurker mamool just used warm-up) because I'll generally wind up with decent results.





Edited, Mar 16th 2009 12:42pm by bsphil
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#17 Mar 16 2009 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
KJ is finally a good 2hr g.axe WS, for what it's worth.



Steel Cyclone still works best for me :(
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I suppose I could also call it "smallifying numberitude" but that sounds incredibly gay. Like, milich youtube playlist gay.
#18 Mar 16 2009 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's nothing WRONG with Steel Cyclone, per se. Just that unless it is omgwtf buffed, its returns are behind our level 60 WS and now our Nyzul WS. I'll have to do a few KING'S DOOOM?!?!?! To see if it can stack up to the few doom cyclone's ive done(sorry, I wasn't up for tagging 2 in the same post >:()
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lolgaxe wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
WARs do what they do best.

Provoke the foe and break it in half.
Coincidentally, that's how I met my wife.
#19 Mar 16 2009 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just here to say that it does have the increased attack bonus(it's more like a cRatio bonus but meh), you can see s--ty numbers because it doesn't have the amazing fTP of the big 3 and also just 50% STR instead of 75%.

Other weapon skills confirmed with this bonus are, ground strike and retribution(I won't be surprised if every quested single hit WS has it), test is very easy, if you have ground strike for example try a STRIKE OF DOOM in merits and you will see pretty similar results to CYCLONE OF DOOM, regardless the differences(attack and accuracy) between both.

I hope it helps.

Ken.
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#20 Mar 16 2009 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
Steel Cyclone still works best for me :(


It's still way more consistent for me than Raging Rush (unless I miss the Steel and get a DA...) but I have been using my Byakko's/RR more lately as all I do is Nyzul and lol at hitting weaklings for 300 damage.

Edited, Mar 16th 2009 6:47pm by Shouta
#21 Mar 17 2009 at 2:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
KJ is finally a good 2hr g.axe WS, for what it's worth.
Like Raging Rush from days gone by.
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#22 Mar 17 2009 at 5:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
Just here to say that it does have the increased attack bonus(it's more like a cRatio bonus but meh), you can see s--ty numbers because it doesn't have the amazing fTP of the big 3 and also just 50% STR instead of 75%.

Other weapon skills confirmed with this bonus are, ground strike and retribution(I won't be surprised if every quested single hit WS has it), test is very easy, if you have ground strike for example try a STRIKE OF DOOM in merits and you will see pretty similar results to CYCLONE OF DOOM, regardless the differences(attack and accuracy) between both.

I hope it helps.

Ken.


Technically though, Steel Cyclone should be taken to measure up pretty close to Y/G/K if the fTP on the Wiki are right. While the fTP is slightly lower (bigger if the user has Hagun vs if a War has M.Bhuj), there is still a large opportunity for SC improvement through Vit. Warrior gets a LOT of vit through various means.

Edit: In fact, using Fortitude Axe usually returns lackluster Raging Rush's. But base damage never seems to have as large an impact on SC. I'd like to try out using SC exclusively with Fort. for a while. re: +7 vit.

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 9:50am by LordMnementh
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lolgaxe wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
WARs do what they do best.

Provoke the foe and break it in half.
Coincidentally, that's how I met my wife.
#23 Mar 17 2009 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Sounds like bphil. It's a shame MNK dosn't get any WS like this, **** always at least 2hit WS'.


I changed my scripts the other week to make DK and HF mostly STR + Genbu's, Osode, Bibiki and I seem to do well with them. I ws with 100STR and 101VIT.

They only really 1 hit ws's, its just the extra fist add's the extra bit of dmg. If that first hit has the Acc/pDIF boost (which im betting it has) then i'll take my chances on the follow up hit, knowing that the main hit is a buffed as it can be.
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#24 Mar 17 2009 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Sounds like bphil. It's a shame MNK dosn't get any WS like this, **** always at least 2hit WS'.


I changed my scripts the other week to make DK and HF mostly STR + Genbu's, Osode, Bibiki and I seem to do well with them. I ws with 100STR and 101VIT.

They only really 1 hit ws's, its just the extra fist add's the extra bit of dmg. If that first hit has the Acc/pDIF boost (which im betting it has) then i'll take my chances on the follow up hit, knowing that the main hit is a buffed as it can be.
Aye I noticed you putting out some nice numbers at Nyzul. When I get myself an Osode I'll sort my macros to do the same. Atm it's best for me to stick with Acc/Att and some STR here and there.
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#25 Mar 17 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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LordMnementh wrote:

Edit: In fact, using Fortitude Axe usually returns lackluster Raging Rush's. But base damage never seems to have as large an impact on SC. I'd like to try out using SC exclusively with Fort. for a while. re: +7 vit.


It's pretty poop, at least in merits. 400-500 damage, maybe lower as I haven't used SC with my Fort recently, usually. When I use my fort axe, I just stick with Raging Rush.

Edited, Mar 17th 2009 3:23pm by Shouta
#26 Mar 18 2009 at 3:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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LordMnementh wrote:
Technically though, Steel Cyclone should be taken to measure up pretty close to Y/G/K if the fTP on the Wiki are right. While the fTP is slightly lower (bigger if the user has Hagun vs if a War has M.Bhuj), there is still a large opportunity for SC improvement through Vit. Warrior gets a LOT of vit through various means.
I think we'll get like Y/G/K with 60%STR instead of their 75% at best. What I find peculiar is that Warrior doesn't really have that high base VIT. It's lower than Dark Knight and Dragoon, and equal to Bard.
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#27 Mar 18 2009 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like to run some numbers with hypothetical okay str builds for ygk and okay str/vit builds for war. What is the cRatio bonus for both? Did I just miss it and it was said here? Is it properly quantified?
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lolgaxe wrote:
Lucinus wrote:
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Provoke the foe and break it in half.
Coincidentally, that's how I met my wife.
#28 Mar 19 2009 at 3:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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If I remember correctly (which means I probably don't), ever since the fiddling with the melee formulas the cratios have been kind of variable.
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#29 May 21 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Should I use Warrior's cuisses +1 or aurum cuisses for Steel Cyclone ? Does the 2 STR outdo the 4 VIT gained and 7 ACC?
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#30 May 21 2009 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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They are going to perform very similar. Warrior's Cuisses +1 are going to add 4-5 base damage (depending on how it falls on fStr) while Aurum will add a guaranteed 5. Now Aurum also has -4 attk which isnt much but for sure if the Warrior's Cuisses fall on that 5 damage tier then they will slightly outperform Aurum. But then you account for the extra little DA rate...

I would just go with Relic +1 and hope that you can get a DA to proc since they are so close to Aurum anyways that will be the only way you will see any real difference.
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#31 May 21 2009 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
How I've heard it described is that now it seems like your cratio falls within a certain range, and that it's exact location on that range will vary every time you ws.
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