how does war stack up to other ddFollow

One of the best with good gear.

We're a very good, versatile DD that has good skill ratings in many different weapons. We also have the choice between many different subs for different situations that add to that versatility.

Another often overlooked aspect of having WAR as your first 75, is that you can pre-merit a bunch of different weapons for other jobs as well. Hand-to-Hand for MNK/PUP, Sword for PLD/BLU/RDM, Dagger for THF/DNC, Polearm for DRG etc.

If you can damage it physically, Warrior can make it dead. Warrior's benefit is in not being locked into having to watch basically the same animations from 1-75.

This can be said about every DD in my opinion. If you get the gear, and you got a few braincells, it's all good.

What about MNK!?

Thank you for your responses right now I'm considering between war and mnk I just can't decide.

without a k.club, what about it;;?

without considering survivability, MNK/WAR with faith baghnakhs is probably the best non-relic DD. hasso's a huge deal though, so if not MNK/WAR it's whichever hasso DD can suck out enough stats from gear/JA/traits/WS. this is stipulating a situation where haste, ACC, and ATT get capped by buffs somehow. raw potential, i say MNK/WAR, but if not it's a math exercise among hasso DDs job abilities/traits and WSs.

considering survivability and actual buffs, it's all a toss-up. the 2h DD i most often see being competitive with my MNK (or outparsing my SAM or DRG) is WAR/SAM. why? tons of haste, native DA, berserk, and a good WS. it's really as simple as that. they have JA (bergressor) that make up for lack of buffs, high haste capability, and a big push forward from native DA.

that doesn't mean John DRK/SAM w/o apocalypse can't outparse me on all my jobs or the best non-relic WAR/SAM. maybe they know how to make up lack of buffs better than any of us, you don't know until the situation happens.

---

OP,

WAR is a dominant DD, but only once it gets very buffed. at lower levels, DRG (and PUP, ironically) outdamage WAR into the ground. it all varies by situation. WAR with good gear paying attention is a good addition to every party though.

if you want a "broken" DD, you have 3 options:

1) put in a lot of research, time, and gilmaking to get one of those high end jobs that only a few dozen players have (eg maximally geared lv5 relic samurai).

2) level samurai, and listen to the idiots who tell you your job is overpowered. be amazed at 75 when you meet people at 75 that do as much damage if not more than you, and regret choosing (2) b/c SAM isn't broken.

3) understand that there is not 1 broken DD that dominates everything in ffxi, and abandon hope.

---

(good advice: try a number of DDs and pick the one whose playstyle you enjoy most. all DDs can contribute a lot)

Edited, Mar 2nd 2009 7:54pm by milich

yeah, MNK would help more in salvage (and equal in dynamis/limbus), but for sky/sea/ground WAR is definitely preferable (at least regarding chances of getting into ls and alliance or whatever). they're about equal for assault/nyzul too.

i wouldn't leave them out of heavy DD league either, i just don't see them outdoing hasso DDs and MNKs (the latter of which i see outdoing hasso DDs, but recent THF forum events have soured my taste for theorycrafting about jobs' damage potentials). though of course, in certain endgame situations, RNG sh*ts all over all of the above.

Kinematics math on mnk knuckles.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2009 12:23am by hitoseijuro

My shell is currently looking for a DRG with Angon merited

But yeah, level a few jobs and see which one you like best. Personally i fell in love as soon as i started playing(It was the job I started on). Likewise i fell in love with WAR when I leveled it for my CoP static.

Play jobs you enjoy and you'll never begrudge having them at your disposal(See: Bards who level Bard to get into Endgame shells).

DRGs without angon merited don't deserve endgame shells. no lie, if i lead an endgame shell and a DRG told me sincerely they had no intention of meriting angon, i'd break their pearl on the spot. in a cooperative game like this, not meriting angon goes beyond foolish and becomes irresponsible. angon is HUGE for endgame linkshells that don't just throw BLMs at everything, and it's not difficult to get enough merits to unlock (and cap) it.

as for MNK, they're often dissed in sky/sea b/c a) linkshells don't bother buffing their melee, b) MNKs (or leaders) often live in the past and assume that MNK should chi blast everything instead of meleeing, c) linkshells see the WS damage of, say, SAM, and don't realize that MNK eating pizza and/or getting BRD buffs can do equal or better total DoT.

2 examples: 1) i once parsed a fight in a sky with a rather poorly geared (brown belt + osode + too much STR gear) MNK in which he ate sushi vs suzy or seiryu (don't remember which) and parsed close to the SAMs, DRKs, and RNGs (whichever were there; i just remember that i was SAM and was impressed by how the MNK's damage turned out).

2) recent casual jailer of justice kill, no bard. JoJ charmed me (MNK/NIN) and PLD. i can't find the duration of my charm/sleep, but i think i missed about 10%-20% of JoJ's HP. i ate marinara pizza+1, don't know what the others ate. parse:

Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg 
THF                       6989    22.96 %        4444           0           0        2545           0          0 
SAM                       4306    14.15 %        1569           0           0        2737           0          0 
PLD                        192     0.63 %         144           0          21           0           0         27 
DRG1                      2025     6.65 %        1391           0         184         450           0          0 
Pahn                      7343    24.13 %        4421           0          93        2705           0        124 
relic DRG2                6807    22.37 %        3298           0         762        2747           0          0 
pet2                      1354     4.45 %        1064           0         290           0           0          0 
pet1                      1200     3.94 %        1009           0         191           0           0          0 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
THF                    4444   63.59 %    333/126   72.55 %      0/23     5.30     41    23/220   70.61   12.31 % 
SAM                    1569   36.44 %      46/34   57.50 %      0/61    22.98      6    88/138  108.33   13.04 % 
PLD                     144   75.00 %      22/34   39.29 %      0/17     5.14      1     36/36   36.00    4.55 % 
DRG1                   1391   68.69 %      42/23   64.62 %      0/53    23.37      4   109/140  125.75    9.52 % 
Pahn                   4421   60.21 %     182/78   70.00 %      0/77    15.28     32     51/98   66.53   17.58 % 
relic DRG2             3298   48.45 %      87/24   78.38 %     0/168    33.20      3   127/217  169.67    3.45 % 
pet2                   1064   78.58 %      59/44   57.28 %      8/29    17.12      2     38/50   44.00    3.39 % 
pet1                   1009   84.08 %      62/46   57.41 %      8/29    15.95      1     36/36   36.00    1.61 % 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
THF                          2545    36.41 %       8/0   100.00 %      54/566   318.13 
 - Dancing Edge                54     2.12 %       1/0   100.00 %       54/54    54.00 
 - Mandalic Stab             2491    97.88 %       7/0   100.00 %      80/566   355.86 
SAM                          2737    63.56 %       7/3    70.00 %     239/598   391.00 
 - Tachi: Gekko              2737   100.00 %       7/3    70.00 %     239/598   391.00 
DRG1                          450    22.22 %       4/1    80.00 %       0/189   112.50 
 - Drakesbane                 420    93.33 %       3/0   100.00 %     115/189   140.00 
 - Penta Thrust                30     6.67 %       1/0   100.00 %       30/30    30.00 
 - Wheeling Thrust              0     0.00 %       0/1     0.00 %         0/0     0.00 
Pahn                         2705    36.84 %       8/0   100.00 %     146/660   338.13 
 - Dragon Kick                660    24.40 %       1/0   100.00 %     660/660   660.00 
 - Howling Fist              2045    75.60 %       7/0   100.00 %     146/453   292.14 
relic DRG2                   2747    40.36 %      12/0   100.00 %       0/595   228.92 
 - Drakesbane                2747   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %       0/595   228.92

notice how, despite my low ACC and dmg/hit, the speed, crits, and howling fist of MNK carries it to heavy effectiveness vs hard mobs. linkshells discriminate against monks primarily because they are ignorant of damage mechanics.

(also note how a) the THF used lolmandalic stab, and b) it lolperformed really fucking well... i do not understand this, but it's interesting. he used it b/c he'd just got it too; it's not like he's Captain Mandalic Stab who knows The Secret and has some mystery, elite mandalic stab build. he just used it with his normal WS gear and it beat gungnir's drakesbane and my howling fist.)


Edited, Mar 3rd 2009 2:12pm by milich

IMO, almost all the DDs are interchangeable for typical damaging things . When you're just chopping things down (merits, non-zerg end game things) I don't think it really matters the job so long as they are smart, well geared, and merited. Some jobs are definitely better at just upfront smacking things (though differences still negligible). In most end game situations killing something a bit slower only matters if you were zerging. So while their DDness is pretty comparable, each has some perk that can make them better when sh*t gets situational.

WAR generally strong
SAM meditate
MNK zerg
DRK zerg
THF feint
DRG agnon
BLU spell spam
BLM magic damage
SCH magic damage
RNG ranged spike
SMN ~45 sec hate-free bloodpacts
BST charm/jug pets
PUP hax hate-free magic/melee puppet

So tada, each one can have use in many situations. Some greatly shine in some situations, like MNK and DRK on zerg Kirin, but so do other jobs like SMN and PUP on kited Kirin. IMO it really doesn't make a substantial difference outside of zerging.

So to answer your question, war is a solid DD in most situations. Arguing the best is silly and far from absolute, but given the large range of things you would attack, warrior has a successful place in most.

Hey, speaking of MNK in endgame, there's nothing in MNK Forum sticky about MNK in Salvage. Why is MNK good for Salvage and what is its job? I'd like to start up Salvage with a group of friends when I get MNK to 75 (currently 60).

Some shells, I'll go ahead and say that some shells are still in the past and think that Monks are only good for Chi Blast. But really, all that QQing is more about shells not needing damage dealers, not needing specific damage dealing jobs. Some people are just so deluded into thinking that those job related jokes are reality. It's more a case of too many damage dealers in the game and not enough slots for them. I know people hate to hear it, but there are only two ways into an endgame shell that isn't just starting, and that's to either know a majority of the people, usually the leadership themselves, or to level another job that is highly sought out, like White Mage or Bard or Paladin or the like. It doesn't matter what damage dealer you are, you're already at a handicap considering you're in a highly competitive field.

Of course, in the case of Dragoons, not having Angon is a major hindrance, just like Thieves without Feint. They're simply amazing abilities, and if they don't want to merit them (or whine about "having" to), then they simply don't deserve to get into a shell.

No, to sum it all up, there is no "best" DD, just better geared players and specific situations.

I never said there was a best DD there guy. I said he should level what he enjoys, and not what people think is the best



Edited, Mar 4th 2009 9:20pm by hirothegreat

I think it's pretty cute how people still pretend that some DD jobs don't simply outshine others 99.9% of the time. A lot of people like to say "it's situational" really just not to hurt peoples feelings about their job decisions.

I'm not saying anyone should level a DD job because of their potential damage output, but what I would like to say is that how about we be honest and say what we are all thinking when someone asks "what is the best dd job?" because we all know that when someone asks that, there are certain jobs that pop into our mind and certain jobs that we don't even think to mention.

Just keep it real, folks.

I knew a couple MNKs melee'd mini-gods(suicidal mnk/drk). I can't speak much for other HNMs however, it's probably another chi-blast spam.

Sorry, I must of misinterpreted your post, my apologies.

truthfully, the biggest downside to warrior is that it is the worst solo job in the game. it made up alot of ground with /dnc, but that at best brought it up to par with some of the other poor soloing classes. luckily this game is based on teamwork, but its nice to be able to go out and get shit done without waiting on others every once and awhile.

Tomahawk is ballin, but isn't ballin all the time like Angon, Feint, Desperate Blows, etc.

I have mnk, drk, and nin. The other day I saw a war to 2.8k steel cyclone to behemoth. I jizzed in my pants.

Great as a hate building tool, great for when the effect is useful like on Slimes and stuff, but I wouldn't say it's a crucial merit like Feint and Angon.