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how does war stack up to other ddFollow

#1 Mar 01 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Good
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I just started playing and I'm thinking about being a damage dealer so tell me how does war stack up to other damage dealers.
#2 Mar 01 2009 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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One of the best with good gear.
#3 Mar 01 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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the question should be rephrased to 'how do other DD stack up to war'
#4 Mar 01 2009 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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We're a very good, versatile DD that has good skill ratings in many different weapons. We also have the choice between many different subs for different situations that add to that versatility.

Another often overlooked aspect of having WAR as your first 75, is that you can pre-merit a bunch of different weapons for other jobs as well. Hand-to-Hand for MNK/PUP, Sword for PLD/BLU/RDM, Dagger for THF/DNC, Polearm for DRG etc.
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#5 Mar 01 2009 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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what sol said, besides you can unlock almost every quest weapon skill, and needless to say more than any other job.

WAR also have a decent tank capability in low man endgame content, since is one of 2 jobs with access to Utsusemi and provoke at the same time.

Ken.
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#6 Mar 02 2009 at 4:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you can damage it physically, Warrior can make it dead. Warrior's benefit is in not being locked into having to watch basically the same animations from 1-75.
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#7 Mar 02 2009 at 6:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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And for the fact that if you want to suicide, its one of the fastest jobs to do it on.

Seriously, a well played war is one of the top DDs out there. And its versatile too.

****** me off when you get a energetic eruca on Nyzul and people keep swinging for 0 damage, while you yell at them to go look for other stuff cause you are polearming that thing.

Or Limbus. No slashing? kk, grabbing spear. Only bludgeon? i got clubs.
#8 Mar 02 2009 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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Esoa wrote:
One of the best with good gear.


This can be said about every DD in my opinion. If you get the gear, and you got a few braincells, it's all good.
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#9 Mar 02 2009 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.
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#10 Mar 02 2009 at 2:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
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#11 Mar 02 2009 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
For all discussions concerning the output of damage -- Mnk/War is not to be considered. That is because the raw DoT produced is exponentially greater than that any other job can produce.

Disclaimer: Though the above statement is slightly exaggerated it is true in a situation where said Mnk has a few key pieces of gear I.E. Usukane and BlackBelt also lets not be petty and go with the *********** Situational Argument" cause if you do then it just looks like rock paper scissors really.

Drk(Zerg)--Sam(WS spam)--Mnk(DoT)--War(Versatile)


/sarcasm?

Edited, Mar 2nd 2009 5:59pm by MahiparMasterManipulator
#12 Mar 02 2009 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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Thank you for your responses right now I'm considering between war and mnk I just can't decide.
#13 Mar 02 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
What about RNG?
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#14 Mar 02 2009 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
What about RNG?


without a k.club, what about it;;?

without considering survivability, MNK/WAR with faith baghnakhs is probably the best non-relic DD. hasso's a huge deal though, so if not MNK/WAR it's whichever hasso DD can suck out enough stats from gear/JA/traits/WS. this is stipulating a situation where haste, ACC, and ATT get capped by buffs somehow. raw potential, i say MNK/WAR, but if not it's a math exercise among hasso DDs job abilities/traits and WSs.

considering survivability and actual buffs, it's all a toss-up. the 2h DD i most often see being competitive with my MNK (or outparsing my SAM or DRG) is WAR/SAM. why? tons of haste, native DA, berserk, and a good WS. it's really as simple as that. they have JA (bergressor) that make up for lack of buffs, high haste capability, and a big push forward from native DA.

that doesn't mean John DRK/SAM w/o apocalypse can't outparse me on all my jobs or the best non-relic WAR/SAM. maybe they know how to make up lack of buffs better than any of us, you don't know until the situation happens.

---

OP,

WAR is a dominant DD, but only once it gets very buffed. at lower levels, DRG (and PUP, ironically) outdamage WAR into the ground. it all varies by situation. WAR with good gear paying attention is a good addition to every party though.

if you want a "broken" DD, you have 3 options:

1) put in a lot of research, time, and gilmaking to get one of those high end jobs that only a few dozen players have (eg maximally geared lv5 relic samurai).

2) level samurai, and listen to the idiots who tell you your job is overpowered. be amazed at 75 when you meet people at 75 that do as much damage if not more than you, and regret choosing (2) b/c SAM isn't broken.

3) understand that there is not 1 broken DD that dominates everything in ffxi, and abandon hope.

---

(good advice: try a number of DDs and pick the one whose playstyle you enjoy most. all DDs can contribute a lot)

Edited, Mar 2nd 2009 7:54pm by milich
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#15 Mar 02 2009 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
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foxblade wrote:
Thank you for your responses right now I'm considering between war and mnk I just can't decide.


If you're planning on doing endgame, I can tell you that other than Salvage and maybe Limbus, MNK is not very appealing to LSs that are recruiting.

That being said, Ding 58 MNK.
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#16 Mar 02 2009 at 6:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
foxblade wrote:
Thank you for your responses right now I'm considering between war and mnk I just can't decide.


If you're planning on doing endgame, I can tell you that other than Salvage and maybe Limbus, MNK is not very appealing to LSs that are recruiting.

That being said, Ding 58 MNK.


yeah, MNK would help more in salvage (and equal in dynamis/limbus), but for sky/sea/ground WAR is definitely preferable (at least regarding chances of getting into ls and alliance or whatever). they're about equal for assault/nyzul too.
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#17 Mar 02 2009 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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RNG doesn't benefit from haste. MNK/WAR doesn't have anything to fall back on if they get hate like /SAMs or SAM, doesn't get free ATK/ACC+(20-30) and WS is not as strong as two handers.
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#18MahiparMasterManipulator, Posted: Mar 02 2009 at 8:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) DUUHHH!
#19 Mar 02 2009 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
kenage wrote:
Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
What about RNG?


without a k.club, what about it;;?
RNG/WAR is pretty awesome @colibri camp, easily keep up with war/sams or sam/war, mind you my sam isn't full merited yet(no 5-hit pole) but the last time I had the chance to parse myself against a RNG/WAR the numbers where pretty close.

And before anyone come with the hate and no defensive capabilities, sidewinders for 1700+ hardly leave much HP for colibris to hit back.

Not many people play ranger now days but they are still competent DDs, there are issues though, with the creature moving around and what not but I won't leave them outside of the Heavy DD league which was the intention of my original post.

Ken.
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#20 Mar 02 2009 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
milich wrote:
kenage wrote:
Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
What about RNG?


without a k.club, what about it;;?
RNG/WAR is pretty awesome @colibri camp, easily keep up with war/sams or sam/war, mind you my sam isn't full merited yet(no 5-hit pole) but the last time I had the chance to parse myself against a RNG/WAR the numbers where pretty close.

And before anyone come with the hate and no defensive capabilities, sidewinders for 1700+ hardly leave much HP for colibris to hit back.

Not many people play ranger now days but they are still competent DDs, there are issues though, with the creature moving around and what not but I won't leave them outside of the Heavy DD league which was the intention of my original post.

Ken.


i wouldn't leave them out of heavy DD league either, i just don't see them outdoing hasso DDs and MNKs (the latter of which i see outdoing hasso DDs, but recent THF forum events have soured my taste for theorycrafting about jobs' damage potentials). though of course, in certain endgame situations, RNG ***** all over all of the above.
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#21 Mar 02 2009 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
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milich wrote:
kenage wrote:
milich wrote:
kenage wrote:
Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Top DD are DRK, DRG, SAM and WAR in no particular order.


What about MNK!?
What about RNG?


without a k.club, what about it;;?
RNG/WAR is pretty awesome @colibri camp, easily keep up with war/sams or sam/war, mind you my sam isn't full merited yet(no 5-hit pole) but the last time I had the chance to parse myself against a RNG/WAR the numbers where pretty close.

And before anyone come with the hate and no defensive capabilities, sidewinders for 1700+ hardly leave much HP for colibris to hit back.

Not many people play ranger now days but they are still competent DDs, there are issues though, with the creature moving around and what not but I won't leave them outside of the Heavy DD league which was the intention of my original post.

Ken.


i wouldn't leave them out of heavy DD league either, i just don't see them outdoing hasso DDs and MNKs (the latter of which i see outdoing hasso DDs, but recent THF forum events have soured my taste for theorycrafting about jobs' damage potentials). though of course, in certain endgame situations, RNG sh*ts all over all of the above.
Ya I'm with you, I really didn't understand THFs being that aggravated over your claims(everything looked pretty logic to me), but meh many are still in the me-has-job-at-75-so-it's-ubber mentality.

And since we are here, and the chance to put my hands on the last 2 BB items that I need isn't that hard, I want to ask, is the difference between Destroyers and Faith Baghnakhs huge?

Ken.
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#22 Mar 03 2009 at 12:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kenage wrote:
And since we are here, and the chance to put my hands on the last 2 BB items that I need isn't that hard, I want to ask, is the difference between Destroyers and Faith Baghnakhs huge?

Kinematics math on mnk knuckles.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2009 12:23am by hitoseijuro
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#23 Mar 03 2009 at 3:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
If you're planning on doing endgame, I can tell you that other than Salvage and maybe Limbus, MNK is not Damage Dealers are not very appealing to LSs that are recruiting.
Damage dealers are completely interchangeable. No shell is really ever looking for (Or not looking for, in most cases) specific damage dealer jobs.

Not any reliable shell, anyway. You'll be able to tell, because if the shell is looking for a specific damage dealer, then chances are all they're looking for are Samurais.

Either way, don't pick a damage dealer job based on their end game recruitment potential. Any good shell doesn't care, and the bad ones are just looking for the top bandwagon job.
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#24 Mar 03 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Good
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My shell is currently looking for a DRG with Angon merited Smiley: crymore

But yeah, level a few jobs and see which one you like best. Personally i fell in love as soon as i started playing(It was the job I started on). Likewise i fell in love with WAR when I leveled it for my CoP static.

Play jobs you enjoy and you'll never begrudge having them at your disposal(See: Bards who level Bard to get into Endgame shells).
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#25 Mar 03 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
If you're planning on doing endgame, I can tell you that other than Salvage and maybe Limbus, MNK is not Damage Dealers are not very appealing to LSs that are recruiting.
Damage dealers are completely interchangeable. No shell is really ever looking for (Or not looking for, in most cases) specific damage dealer jobs.

Not any reliable shell, anyway. You'll be able to tell, because if the shell is looking for a specific damage dealer, then chances are all they're looking for are Samurais.

Either way, don't pick a damage dealer job based on their end game recruitment potential. Any good shell doesn't care, and the bad ones are just looking for the top bandwagon job.



Really? I can't remember the last time someone was nice to a MNK up in sky.

I was really just putting it out there because I've listened to alot of MNKs and unmerited Angon DRGs QQ about how they can't get endgame shells.

Then again, I play on Fenrir.
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#26 Mar 03 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
mazmaz wrote:
If you're planning on doing endgame, I can tell you that other than Salvage and maybe Limbus, MNK is not Damage Dealers are not very appealing to LSs that are recruiting.
Damage dealers are completely interchangeable. No shell is really ever looking for (Or not looking for, in most cases) specific damage dealer jobs.

Not any reliable shell, anyway. You'll be able to tell, because if the shell is looking for a specific damage dealer, then chances are all they're looking for are Samurais.

Either way, don't pick a damage dealer job based on their end game recruitment potential. Any good shell doesn't care, and the bad ones are just looking for the top bandwagon job.



Really? I can't remember the last time someone was nice to a MNK up in sky.

I was really just putting it out there because I've listened to alot of MNKs and unmerited Angon DRGs QQ about how they can't get endgame shells.

Then again, I play on Fenrir.


DRGs without angon merited don't deserve endgame shells. no lie, if i lead an endgame shell and a DRG told me sincerely they had no intention of meriting angon, i'd break their pearl on the spot. in a cooperative game like this, not meriting angon goes beyond foolish and becomes irresponsible. angon is HUGE for endgame linkshells that don't just throw BLMs at everything, and it's not difficult to get enough merits to unlock (and cap) it.

as for MNK, they're often dissed in sky/sea b/c a) linkshells don't bother buffing their melee, b) MNKs (or leaders) often live in the past and assume that MNK should chi blast everything instead of meleeing, c) linkshells see the WS damage of, say, SAM, and don't realize that MNK eating pizza and/or getting BRD buffs can do equal or better total DoT.

2 examples: 1) i once parsed a fight in a sky with a rather poorly geared (brown belt + osode + too much STR gear) MNK in which he ate sushi vs suzy or seiryu (don't remember which) and parsed close to the SAMs, DRKs, and RNGs (whichever were there; i just remember that i was SAM and was impressed by how the MNK's damage turned out).

2) recent casual jailer of justice kill, no bard. JoJ charmed me (MNK/NIN) and PLD. i can't find the duration of my charm/sleep, but i think i missed about 10%-20% of JoJ's HP. i ate marinara pizza+1, don't know what the others ate. parse:

Damage Summary 
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg 
THF                       6989    22.96 %        4444           0           0        2545           0          0 
SAM                       4306    14.15 %        1569           0           0        2737           0          0 
PLD                        192     0.63 %         144           0          21           0           0         27 
DRG1                      2025     6.65 %        1391           0         184         450           0          0 
Pahn                      7343    24.13 %        4421           0          93        2705           0        124 
relic DRG2                6807    22.37 %        3298           0         762        2747           0          0 
pet2                      1354     4.45 %        1064           0         290           0           0          0 
pet1                      1200     3.94 %        1009           0         191           0           0          0 
 
Melee Damage 
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit% 
THF                    4444   63.59 %    333/126   72.55 %      0/23     5.30     41    23/220   70.61   12.31 % 
SAM                    1569   36.44 %      46/34   57.50 %      0/61    22.98      6    88/138  108.33   13.04 % 
PLD                     144   75.00 %      22/34   39.29 %      0/17     5.14      1     36/36   36.00    4.55 % 
DRG1                   1391   68.69 %      42/23   64.62 %      0/53    23.37      4   109/140  125.75    9.52 % 
Pahn                   4421   60.21 %     182/78   70.00 %      0/77    15.28     32     51/98   66.53   17.58 % 
relic DRG2             3298   48.45 %      87/24   78.38 %     0/168    33.20      3   127/217  169.67    3.45 % 
pet2                   1064   78.58 %      59/44   57.28 %      8/29    17.12      2     38/50   44.00    3.39 % 
pet1                   1009   84.08 %      62/46   57.41 %      8/29    15.95      1     36/36   36.00    1.61 % 
 
Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
THF                          2545    36.41 %       8/0   100.00 %      54/566   318.13 
 - Dancing Edge                54     2.12 %       1/0   100.00 %       54/54    54.00 
 - Mandalic Stab             2491    97.88 %       7/0   100.00 %      80/566   355.86 
SAM                          2737    63.56 %       7/3    70.00 %     239/598   391.00 
 - Tachi: Gekko              2737   100.00 %       7/3    70.00 %     239/598   391.00 
DRG1                          450    22.22 %       4/1    80.00 %       0/189   112.50 
 - Drakesbane                 420    93.33 %       3/0   100.00 %     115/189   140.00 
 - Penta Thrust                30     6.67 %       1/0   100.00 %       30/30    30.00 
 - Wheeling Thrust              0     0.00 %       0/1     0.00 %         0/0     0.00 
Pahn                         2705    36.84 %       8/0   100.00 %     146/660   338.13 
 - Dragon Kick                660    24.40 %       1/0   100.00 %     660/660   660.00 
 - Howling Fist              2045    75.60 %       7/0   100.00 %     146/453   292.14 
relic DRG2                   2747    40.36 %      12/0   100.00 %       0/595   228.92 
 - Drakesbane                2747   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %       0/595   228.92


notice how, despite my low ACC and dmg/hit, the speed, crits, and howling fist of MNK carries it to heavy effectiveness vs hard mobs. linkshells discriminate against monks primarily because they are ignorant of damage mechanics.

(also note how a) the THF used lolmandalic stab, and b) it lolperformed really fucking well... i do not understand this, but it's interesting. he used it b/c he'd just got it too; it's not like he's Captain Mandalic Stab who knows The Secret and has some mystery, elite mandalic stab build. he just used it with his normal WS gear and it beat gungnir's drakesbane and my howling fist.)


Edited, Mar 3rd 2009 2:12pm by milich
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