i fully endorse "just-for-fun" setups (like people who like going SAM/RNG to merits even though it sucks:P), and i suspect a lot of people agree with me on that (that's our stance on (1)). however, i don't see the point in blowing resources on the just-for-fun setup if you could more beneficially use them elsewhere (that's my stance on (2), though if you really love how axe/axe plays, maybe the money doesn't matter).
See, the only two different pieces of gear (aside from the weapons, obviously
) between a dual wield and a great axe build is basically an earring and a neckpiece. It's not like you have to get a radical different set of gear to make one work.
Which is something I really don't understand with people insisting one build doesn't work. They were probably the same people during the DW Onry phase saying the same thing about Great Axes.
I don't care if what people want to do THEMSELVES
, but it's needlessly irritating when they come in and tell other people that what THEY
want to do is wrong. "I use so-and-so personally, and find this-and-that to work" is fine in my book, but "Don't use so-and-so because it is dramatically inferior to this-and-that" isn't good, and a blatant lie, and will continue to be so until someone can decisively prove that one is the reason chains become infinite, and fights are won and using the other will constantly cause loss.
it's fairly clear to me that such proof won't be forthcoming. 1 of my oldest friends in the game (who leveled WAR with my MNK on dhalmel in bibiki bay:P) has always been sort of an A.D.D. player regarding weapons, swapping between axe/axe, company sword/something, GA for the past 5 years. he still does this (as does my other old friend who leveled WAR a couple years ago), and the parses don't change dramatically when either of them switch to axe/axe. the results might change if we were max haste and they were /SAM, but in that case, with me and other people i look for when forming parties in party, chances are we'd still have infinite chain even if 1 member occasionally went AFK or started skilling staff.
the "both setups work" is even more dramatic if the setup you're occasionally switching to is axe/ridill + sword merits;;.
speaking of axe/axe vs GA, here's a 22k/hr gcolibri pt (was short-ish, 1 chain 67 then we disbanded), in which my old friend used GA and axe/axe. pt setup is: SCH, BRD, COR, WAR/NIN, MNK/NIN (me), DRK/SAM, w/ march/march, enblizzardga, chaos roll and fighter's roll up fulltime.
Player Total Dmg Damage % Melee Dmg Range Dmg Abil. Dmg WSkill Dmg Spell Dmg Other Dmg
DRK/SAM 84917 25.56 % 45861 0 84 36754 0 2218
WAR/NINvoker 95489 28.74 % 60453 0 0 29400 0 5636
Pahn 145464 43.78 % 96907 0 366 37314 0 10877
Player Melee Dmg Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc % M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit%
DRK/SAM 45861 54.01 % 275/90 75.34 % 104/236 159.79 17 247/324 272.59 6.18 %
WAR/NINvoker 60453 63.31 % 519/157 76.78 % 42/252 107.92 57 94/319 185.89 10.98 %
Pahn 96907 66.62 % 937/242 79.47 % 38/131 90.90 177 98/191 157.20 18.89 %
Player WSkill Dmg WSkill % Hit/Miss WS.Acc % WS.Low/Hi WS.Avg
DRK/SAM 36754 43.28 % 53/0 100.00 % 190/1223 693.47
- Guillotine 36754 100.00 % 53/0 100.00 % 190/1223 693.47
WAR/NINvoker 29400 30.79 % 40/0 100.00 % 181/1376 735.00
- Raging Rush 15077 51.28 % 19/0 100.00 % 181/1285 793.53
- Rampage 13659 46.46 % 20/0 100.00 % 303/1376 682.95
- Steel Cyclone 664 2.26 % 1/0 100.00 % 664/664 664.00
Pahn 37314 25.65 % 45/0 100.00 % 356/1099 829.20
- Asuran Fists 37314 100.00 % 45/0 100.00 % 356/1099 829.20
what's the point of showing this data?
a) we're at the most popular merit camp with 1 member doing 50% better than the next highest DD, with only 3 DDs, and carrying chain easily (ave. fight length 29.88 seconds). 1 DD is sacrificing damage for casting time and inferior sub, and 1 DD is DRK/SAM and parsing very low (read: is no where near living up to his potential).
b) the WAR's damage split was consistently around 60% melee, 40% WS, with raging rush only averaging about 110 (about 15%) higher than rampage. enspells actually added about 10dmg/round, making axe/axe actually somewhat attractive. you can take my word (or not:D) that the WAR damage %s stayed more or less constant (within a couple %) the entire party.
given (a) and (b), it's patently absurd to think that a decent party is going to lose chain b/c a WAR decides he likes spampage. there's penumbral parties where the mild % change could make a difference, but if 1 melee dropping 10% damage at most means no chain, a mildly slow pull or a fight where no one has TP and the first one who does misses his/her WS is also going to lose chain.
WAR/SAM w/ GA is the most damage you can do on WAR. but if you like axe/axe or axe/joy, and gear for it appropriately, it's pretty silly to say that using such a combo is some sort of affront to your party members.
edit: a note on epeen and maximizing
since i've been sillily focused on forcing out every last bit of damage from my character for years, i'd like to make a small comment on maximizing and what it's good for. considering my "rrraaghghhh damage!" attitude, one would think there's some dissonance b/w that and "use axe/axe even if it's worse, who cares? you still hold chain." i don't think so.
regarding XP parties, the main point of maximizing is pickup parties.
many, many, many times over the years i've partied with decent to sub-decent people who i've never met, with possibly not quite the right jobs in party or not at quite the right camp, or whatever, and carried the party to an infinite chain by doing 40%-50% party damage with 2-3 other DDs in party. this is the main virtue of maximizing. first of all, you raise your own potential for getting XP (you can't always find your favorite heavy-hitters when forming/joining parties). second, you create great parties for people who may otherwise never see above chain 10 even at gcolibri.
k those gimps!" you might say. that's your right, sure, but i like being able to have fun AND get XP whenever i want. if you spend more time saying, "lol u guys sux" than getting merits, the joke's on you because i probably have more merits than you and do more damage than you can, and i've done a lot of pickup parties:P.
the other benefit of maximization is dynamis and limbus. 4-5 good members can carry 10-20 bad ones. it may sound unfair, but events admit of several degrees of skill/gear, and a good leader makes use of all of it. you don't hurt anyone by lifting everyone up:P.
but when EVERYONE is hardcore maximizing and it's just epreening... that's just its own thing. this game is too easy to require that kind of power, except for in a handful of events (t3 einherjar first thing that comes to mind). i enjoy that kind of thing, but maximizing has more benefits than just the pen
is contest. Edited, Mar 4th 2009 5:10pm by milich