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A guide to performing as a Warrior/DragoonFollow

#102 Feb 08 2006 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I still take it seriously. I just dinged 65 and waiting on Full Break now to see if I can do enough to get off Full Break at start, Raging Rush at middle. Should know by the end of the day. Also plan to be parsing AF against the Thick gear when I get to 69(Both sets to be tested with berserker's axe).
#103 Feb 08 2006 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Umm... yeah I think we should really go back to the main subject, war/drg and how does it work, up to now blz has provided enough infos & parse results (for me at least) that I have to take into consideration using this sub for xp AND using meat with it, especially with madrigal/gravity, and moreso with some thick gear.

That being said ... blz do you think war/thf *meat* would be doable considering your gear (minus the wyvern earring of course) or is haste, jump & acc bonus trait too important for it to be done without a brd ?

I know it's giving up a lot for sneak attack "only", but my drg is 10 atm and I need some gaxe fun >_> (and when you put /nin in your comment 80% of the time you'll be asked to /nin).

To conclude this post, please don't turn this thread into a "my equip > your equip" or "meat <> sushi" I think every forum had enough of those.

On a sidenote, I finally got my haub (and a 9m debt, friends are good). So i'm a little closer to the "good" side of war equip.
#104 Feb 08 2006 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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My BRD doesnt even use Madrigal, so. . .? I don't understand.

Like I said my accuracy is high 80, low 90% accuracy on IT monsters. I don't need parsing because I know exactly how much accuracy sushi gives at my level and how much most people will wear accompanied with it. Normal sushi user would have in a normal sushi setup, 2-12 more accuracy then me. I'm not sure about you but if there was a choice between a setup having +12 more accuracy or +70 attack I would probably take attack every time.

On Proccessionaires/Torama I had no trouble landing 15/15 Rampages or 17/17 Rampages...so I really dont understand where your coming from, sorry.


You have no way of knowing how well you are doing without a parser. A lot of times things you can assume to be true are actually false. For example did you know that attack has a cap? Generally sushi eaters are told to get as much attack as possible, and for sushi eaters that is good advice. If you eat meat, berserk and get double minuet then can easily hit the cap. Also your spike finger gauntlets are useless in this situation.

Also sushi tends to parse a higher accuracy than +39 in gear. On top of that attack has diminishing returns even before hitting the cap, but you are no where near the cap for STR. With all that attack you have you'd probably be better off with Enky/Pallas bracelets full time.

Really you would be better off with Madrigal + Minuet, although if your accuracy is really as good as you say, then you'd benefit most from Minuet + March. There is no way to really know though, because you don't parse your results. You can come and claim that you'd outdo sushi in everyway possible, but you don't even know how much damage you are doing, let alone everyone else. How can you say things like "that's a fact" when you have zero evidence to back it up?
#105 Feb 08 2006 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Umm... yeah I think we should really go back to the main subject, war/drg and how does it work, up to now blz has provided enough infos & parse results (for me at least) that I have to take into consideration using this sub for xp AND using meat with it, especially with madrigal/gravity, and moreso with some thick gear.


Thank you. I'll have Thick set parses up as soon as I can, also.

Quote:
do you think war/thf *meat* would be doable considering your gear (minus the wyvern earring of course) or is haste, jump & acc bonus trait too important for it to be done without a brd ?


I've had a War/Thf with me several times from 61-63, and our TP gain wasn't massively different. The combo works fine, just if you have a War/Drg with you, be prepared to be 50% behind(This is if you time Berserk+Aggressor so that both of you coincide, and can take those VT's for TP gain when it's down). The War/Thf was eating meat more often than not. It's not that she didn't like Sushi on Torama, it's just that she couldn't afford to buy anymore sushi just then. Once she changed to meat, both with and without bard, her overall damage went up about 200-600 per battle, and Raging Rush was landing a **** of a lot harder. With a Bard it's obviously better, but without a Bard it works just fine too. Shrug off when you go on those horrid whiff-fests(they do happen, regardless of what you eat), and have fun.
#106 Feb 08 2006 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow very well done guide i must say When i take up war agian i'll be subing drg


ps:


STICKY !
#107 Feb 09 2006 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Before I put WAR on a little haitus I was leveling DRG to sub for WAR... I can't wait to actually be able to try it out someday.
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#108 Feb 12 2006 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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On my secondary character(mainly mage jobs and BST[no need to worry about axe skill due to BST:D])I recently started leveling WAR, probably only going to 37, I've been subbing DRG since Lv20(Lv28 currently)...

I can tell you for sure 20-28 at the very least WAR/DRG is a powerhouse, nothing else seems to come close... been hitting Sturmwinds for over 200DMG already(Rice Dumpling/Berzerk[No BRD]) as far as accuracy goes... not as high as high as it could be... but when I'm hitting for often 4x the dmg of other players using 1h weapons(15-20) and crticaling for their WS dmg(100-130), I really don't mind.^^

I do realize that the power of 2H weapons drops off, but that won't be before Lv37(It's a long way off) so I'm content with sticking to WAR/DRG till 37(Possibly beyond that if I actually decide to level NIN... I'll probably stick with /DRG until 54 if I do, then pick it up again @60)

It's incredibly fun to play!
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#109 Feb 16 2006 at 2:37 AM Rating: Good
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I've yet to see the supposed drop off in 2handed weapon damage, and this is through 66 levels of Drg and 66 levels of War.
#110 Feb 16 2006 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I will be going with /DRG full time as soon as i get my Great Axe and Axe leveled..They are at skill 100 and my WAR is level 46 lol..

Things to note for the future of /DRG:

Barrone Gear
Rune Weapons (Great Axe, and Pole arm are very ****)
More Haste Gear.
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    #111 Feb 16 2006 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
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    Barone Gear: Good Macro pieces for the extra TP gain.

    Rune Weapons: Better to wait til you have some merits before considering seriously, this way you won't have to sacrifice gear slots and extend the refresh cycles.

    Just conjecture, not able to test it(yet).
    #112 Feb 21 2006 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
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    Just want to keep this on first page if people get curious, not expecting to get sticky or anything. No update just yet.
    #113 Feb 27 2006 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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    *sigh* moving woes, haven't had playtime really lately, been scanning these boards for my FFXI fix. Just encouraging people to read this again. I hopped back onto the Drg boards for a bit, realized how fuggin stupid it is over there, and came back here, where it isn't a self-help group. Woot to the mutha fuggin Noot.
    #114 Mar 06 2006 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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    A few more days til my computer arrives at my new home. Hopefully then I'll have the time to get the next level and parse out the Thick set. One thing I did want to say, the Coral gear is pretty **** good. A little less HP, a lot less enmity, 1 less str and 2 more dex from the NQs. Still need the find the HQ boots to try those vs the AF boots, but so far the NQ stuff has been performing rather nicely.
    #115 Mar 08 2006 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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    does subbin drg make u lose alot of ur defence or just a small percent ??????
    sry if this was asked already 8(
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    #116 Mar 08 2006 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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    /Drg has the same inherrent defense as /Nin, as derived from Vitality. The only differences would be in gear.

    /Mnk has about 1 more point of defense than /Drg.
    /Thf has about 2 points less defense than /Drg.

    Mini-guide to Warrior/Dragoon Tanking

    1. Find a Good Support Team! Brd/Whm Rdm/Whm Blm/Whm is my preferred tanking support team. A good amount of MP to move around, some big emergency cures from the RDM or BLM to Divine Seal if needed, Bard can keep a regen song and an acc song on you at all times.

    2. Save you TP! Build TP as quickly as you can on the first mob. Every mob after that, try to open with a WS followed by a Jump. This will help the mob die faster and also cement some hate onto you right after using Provoke.

    3. Avoid Tanking with Axe and Shield in XP. While it is possible, you will usually not generate enough hate to keep the mob on you.

    4. Invest in enmity+ gear. Do so carefully. If you can get some enmity on a ring or earring go for it, if its on a belt or other item, be wary as to its defensive and offensive bonuses and defects.

    5. Have Fun.
    Suggestions

    1.Create the following Macro:
    /target <bt>
    /ja "Jump" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Provoke" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /attack <bt>

    Use this macro as soon as the mob is in range. Spam until Jump procs and then wait for the rest to follow.

    2.Use Jump when TP is 0-12% or directly after a WS. In the first usage, it allows you to build TP faster while adding some hate as long as it lands. In the second usage, it adds another hit to your WS every 1:30.

    Example WS Macro:
    /ws "Shield Break" <t>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Jump" <t>

    Replace WS with your WS of choice. Suggested Weapon skills(Use as obtained):
    Shield Break
    Weapon Break
    Full Break

    3. Eat for Offense, Gear for Defense. Meat Mith or Chiefkabobs have always netted me good results when tanking, regardless of subjob. Get some good heavy armor, but don't sacrifice defense in excess of 3 points to do so. Use Defender at all times once it is available.

    Example of Armor Choices:
    Lv. 40 Breastplate is good for Pld Tanking.
    Lv. 40 Royal Squire's Chainmail is good for Warrior DD and Tanking.

    4. Always use the Great Axe. While you can, in theory, XP tank with an Axe and Shield Combo, at higher levels you just won't be putting up enough damage to keep the hate. Make your life easier by using the Great Axe. It is, after all, your friend.

    edit: Spelling and Formatting.

    Edited, Wed Mar 8 12:04:16 2006 by blz
    #117 Mar 08 2006 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
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    Added 3 new sections: Light SC, Full Break and Pld Dark SC, and just a gear idea, Parses pending once I get my com back and running again.

    Oh, and to those who are rating me down: Have some cojone's, say why you are rating me down, so at least someone can respect that you have an opinion other than "This don't Work Because I Said So!".
    #118 Mar 08 2006 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
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    Quote:
    You can come and claim that you'd outdo sushi in everyway possible, but you don't even know how much damage you are doing, let alone everyone else.



    This is kinda old, but meh. Hey Yarunk how about you go to and look up Sole sushi. How do you need a parse to do simple math? Take your base Axe skill at lets say level 65, which I happen to know Axe caps at 2 points less then you need for Mistral axe, so 245 (with accuracy gear equipped) x .15 = 36.75 Accuracy. Now lets say your wearing a Haubergeon and a Life Belt and Assault earring also. So 58.75 accuracy total congratulations you just figured out how much accuracy you have. Now lets say your using Hedgehog Pie and your wearing: Haubergeon (+10), Sniper's rings x2 (+10), Life Belt (+10), Peacock Charm (+10), Assault Earring (+2), Minuet Earring (+3), and AF pants (+3), with Hedgehog Pie (+5) = 53 Accuracy. Neither of these take into account DEX bonuses.

    Wow your sushi just gave you a whole 5.75 more accuracy and my meat gives me (taking into account attack bonuses added on to skill, just like I did with gear on sushi) 265 x .18 = 47.7 Attack. Added together with my gear to a total of +89 Attack, Meat falls short of Sushi in accuracy by what 5-15 at the most (unless your piling on all accuracy gear + sushi which is diminishing returns), but beats sushi by almost 50 Attack and only gets a larger difference as you level.

    Quote:
    How can you say things like "that's a fact" when you have zero evidence to back it up?


    I can count and compare.

    Also talking about diminishing returns on attack how about you come back when you experience that? Unless your subbing MNK and boosting 12 times inbetween every attack I can guarantee your not experiencing it.


    Edited, Wed Mar 8 16:30:07 2006 by Cailee
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    #119 Mar 08 2006 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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    The Meat vs. Sushi has already been done in this forum several times. Since my discussion is primarily about the Great Axe since that is what Warrior/Dragoon specializes in, and I do not advocate the use of Sushi with the Great Axe, I would not like to have it brought up again.

    Given, I know it's a free speech open public forum still, but please, just start your own topic, or take it somewhere else.

    Comments, Questions, Opinions about the Guide and Job/Subjob combination, and any information that I am including would be greatly appreciated
    #120 Mar 12 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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    Quote:
    1.Create the following Macro:
    /target <bt>
    /ja "Jump" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Provoke" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /attack <bt>


    Why do you have /wait 2 in there? Wouldn't /wait 1 work instead? I would recomment that you do not use the <bt> macro, whenever I do that there have been too many times where I attack the mob that the mage chooses to sleep. /ja "Provoke" <bt> though works nicely when the thf is bringing the mob back to the party if we are camped in a winding tunnel. I typically prefer to use the f8 key to target the mobs as they come in.

    I would also recommend that once you hit level 70+, you use High Jump as your opening move since high jump will shed what, 30%-50% or so of your current hate.

    I am also curious about the usage of crossbows to try and increase your tp gain. I was in a lvl 56 or so party as dragoon, with two warriors and a thief. All 3 of them were using acid bolts/holy bolts on the crabs, insane activation rate, and insane tp gain. They had... I'd say about at least a 50% accuracy rate with the crossbows, I'd say more about 65%, lots of misses yeah, but more hits than misses. While I understand that bolts are expensive, I'm a little surprised that more warriors don't use them for their potential tp gain.
    #121 Mar 13 2006 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
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    The animation for Jump takes about 2 seconds, so the /wait 1 has many times been ignored, and thus provoke has not fired.

    <bt> is effective as long as you don't have to worry about sleeping mobs. When you do, just ask the mages not to sleep until you have one. Problem solved.

    70+ tanking, yes, open with High Jump, but as said, it was a mini-guide, and the person asking isn't 70+ yet.

    As for crossbows: The delay of the crossbow can actually slow you down if timed wrong(which is more often than not). For a Thf and War/Nin it's not such a big issue, since they can usually get it to fire inbetween swings of the main and offhand weapon, but for a 2-hand user, like a War/Drg, it just slows down your TP gain unnecessarily.
    #122 Mar 17 2006 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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    Self bumping and edited slightly, included the Mini-tanking guide in the main.
    #123 Mar 20 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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    I think you have done a good job here Blz.

    I have only read through the 1st page but I think I'll put my comments through. If they had been mentioned in this thread, I apologise.

    1) I think the benefit of the Jump abilities has not been properly stressed. And you gave the impression to only use jump after a WS. Whereas I tend to regard Jump as a different form of Haste. Of course, if you can foresee firing a WS in a couple of seconds, you can save the jump til after for the TP boost, otherwise Jump should be used whenever it's ready to maximise the haste effect.

    Jump is one extra attack round every 90 seconds, with all the normal probabilities of criticals and double attacks. Unlike SA, this attack round does not need to wait until the next swing, nor does it reset the delay for the next swing. That is, this extra attack round exists outside of the weapon's normal delay machanism (Bear in mind, I havn't counted the 1-2 seconds required for performing the JA, but it's not that significant when you're dealing with slow weapons).

    Therefore, the effective-haste in swinging that Great Axe by subbing /Drg is not just that 5% from the earring, you should also take the extra attack every 90 seconds into account (and emphasise on it). The slower the GAxe, the more % haste you get out of the Jump abilities.

    I'm kinda retired from this game now and cannot be bothered to find out about it, but I think I had previously exp-ed with War/Drg for lv30-38 and calculated the haste % gained from Jumping every 90 seconds to be in the teens.

    This is the real benefit I see out of subbing /Drg. In other words, the /Drg subjob excels in making the heaviest, Two-handed weapons in the game faster.

    2) Another thing you may want to add is to calculate the WeaponDamage-per-second of the popular GAxes, giving 3 sets of figures... eg:

     
    Axe Name  |  w/out Haste  |  5% Haste  |  5% Haste & Jump every 90sec 
    Axe A     |    0.35       |    0.4     |      0.55 
    Axe B ...so on 
    ****imaginary figures**** 
    


    This would hopefully highlight the effectiveness of using Jump with slow weapons and will help your readers on choosing a GAxe.

    Lastly, hope you every success in getting to end game. But at least I'm sure you had already enjoyed the game - every level in the process, unlike others who only enjoys the power once they get their character to lv75.


    Edited, Mon Mar 20 13:08:07 2006 by MegaTrainPullerClio
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    #124 Mar 20 2006 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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    I say to save Jump for WS so that the haste is used to the best effect. This way, it is used to make it to 100TP faster since it throws in an extra delay free attack. I believe I said something to that, just not in the direct guide.

    I don't like to put up the DPS per weapon, because honestly I don't see the variety of great axes being that great at any level range to require it.
    #125 Mar 23 2006 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
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    Ok so now I have dinged WAR30 and after hearing that SE will be making more usbjobs viable for WAR, I have decided to give this combo a try. I did Carpace Combatants twice trying to get Wyvern Earring and got owned bad. I followed all the guides and we just didn't have the luck. Im forced to BCNM this item as there are none for sale in any city and the last ones were sold in January. I have done the whole Sturmwind > Jump and its really fun. I want the earring, shield, and mantle just so I can have it all.

    Now to my point. IMO GA for parties, axe for Ballista. Why? well I don't need to tell you, you know why. Anyway lol, I can't wait to have haste +6% and be able to jump around and spam axe ws's. Just my 2 cents. I'm not really posting for any other reason than i like the idea of this job to break out of the box. I don't know, never having been to higher levels, but I wouldn't think this to be such a bad job. Jump + High Jump = more tp = more Steel Cyclone = more DOT right? Even later when Rampage is unlocked +6% haste (using shield) seems like it might be nice to use with an already fairly fast weapon.

    Now what about some of those swords with +6% haste? It seems to me you would generate way too much hate using two swords at the same time that do 2-3 attacks. Why not one with extra speed? Iono like I said never been that far, just a question. Oh and Tungi at 60 ^^.......that would be so fun for 60 cap Ballista!!!

    Edited, Thu Mar 23 02:42:58 2006 by Madvillany
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    #126 Mar 28 2006 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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    War/Drg specializes in the Great Axe. While you can use the 1 Handed Axe, and the Haste from Earring + Shield is okay, it's still nothing great. When it come's to 1 handed Axe, Pre-Mistral Axe, War/Nin, Mistral Axe+, /Thf has been my favorite.

    In ballista as War/Drg, Great Axe still wins. You can take on a fellow war, regardless of his sub, to about the same degree of success as you can take on a Drk. Sam's, it's a race for WS's. So far, I've been dead split vs. Sam's(3/6), Drk's are pretty easy(8/10), Mnk's are a pain if Chakra is ready(3/9), and Thf/Nin's are the worst(0/6)!
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