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A guide to performing as a Warrior/DragoonFollow

#152 May 07 2006 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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In Terms of the parsing results, the damage per hit may easily make up the difference, especially if it signifigantly effects the the WS damage(note: havent tested yet, havent been able to play in awhile for personal reasons).


In terms of TP gain, yes being left behind is likely(by 1-3 rounds). I'd just personally rather find that haste elsewhere than in my weapon, and requiring a merit point that I'd personally never use *shrug*.

#153 May 08 2006 at 3:23 AM Rating: Good
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MP merits make good sense anyway allowing you to take advantage of cassie earring and such items, and in general just being MUCH more versatile. Also, there is no other slot on warrior that is going to provide NINE percent haste. That is a huge boost, and has applications on HNMs as well(its also incredibly cheap).


Also, as I mentioned, the new walahra turban has 30 MP on it, so you can get 14% haste from your head and weapon slot without needing any extra merits into anything, and the 5 acc on the chopper helps negate the acc loss from wearing turban over ehead or ohat.
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#154 May 08 2006 at 4:55 AM Rating: Decent
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The Turban is what swings me against the need for MP merits. Just my personal choice, it is last on my list of things to merit.

I'd still rather keep up a good percentage of haste with the higher base damage though. *sigh* I'll have my account back someday to check it out.
#155 May 15 2006 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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#156 May 26 2006 at 3:15 PM Rating: Default
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Can't get enough of that sugar crisp.



Edited, Fri May 26 16:27:02 2006 by blz
#157 Jun 12 2006 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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#158 Jun 14 2006 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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Flame, counter-flame, reasonable argument, flame...

Right...

I believe Losttroll wrote a guide about WAR subjobs. DRG was among them. This whole freakin' post degenerated from a fairly informative guide to show other people one person's path as he has experienced it from his own parties to a sushi>meat fiasco. Not to mention that there are people here that are saying, in effect, "Despite the fact that you have taken WAR from 30-X level using this sub, I still believe that you are a complete fake and need to be using a tradtional, conformative sub that everyone else and their brother uses rather than trying something radical and putting forth the effort to make it effective."

If he wants to /DRG, he can /DRG. He already noted that he has to seek longer for the fact that his chosen subjob is not one of the "standard" choices, and accepts that payoff. If he wants to write a guide explaining what he has experienced so that others can perhaps try it out for themselves, then that's his **** business. If you don't agree with the concepts that he has clearly laid out, then don't freakin' sub /DRG and do your own **** thing, but don't come here and bash the **** out of the man for trying something different and writing a "journal" of his experiences in order to show others that it can be used effectively.

You're also flaming him for the stupid meat vs. sushi argument. He already noted it. If he uses Sushi, he switches to axes where he feels the accuracy is more necessary.

Let's take a common phrase and look at it in retrospect:

"All the attack in the world doesn't mean **** if you can't hit the target."

And in retrospect:

"All the accuracy in the world doesn't mean **** if you keep hitting the thing for 0 damage."


He's found that at 70-80% accuracy his damage is equal to or greater than people parsing 80-90% accuracy that are getting less damage per hit than he is getting with his GAX. Ergo, the slight reduction in his accuracy, in his mind, is justified since he makes up for the loss by causing more damage per individual swing. You also have to consider the fact that /DRG gets this nifty Accuracy Bonus, so why beat a dead horse and eat accuracy food and wear accuracy gear to go with your accuracy job trait and have all this insane accuracy and lack the ability to do significant damage?

If you sub something different and radical, you might have to take a different and radical approach as to what gear you equip and what food you use. The truth is in the parse. If he parses and sees that his numbers stack up, then he is making it work.

So, how about we close this thing by saying:

"If you don't want to /DRG, then don't. Continue going /MNK or /NIN and eating all the sushi in the world. If you want to /DRG, then give it a try and see for yourself how YOU fare with different foods and equipment setups."

Until you actually get off your **** and try /DRG yourself, you have absolutely no room to tell someone else that HAS tried it why it cannot work, nor can you tell them "based on your own extensive experience with /DRG" what they should and shouldn't be eating.


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#159 Jun 15 2006 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm just wondering if any war/nin's here have been out damaged by a war/drg? So far the only other job to out damage me has been a mnk/war. I don't usually care about this sort of thing but out of the 3 or 4 war/drg's i've partied with up to lvl 63, I really haven't been impressed. So I was just wondering if I was alone in my thinking.

Blz if that combo works for you, i'm glad. But I really wish we were on the same server just so I could see first hand if it's as good as you make it sound.(soley because you seem to be the authority on war/drg.)
#160 Jun 15 2006 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Question: Has anyone with this combo seen how it can fare at engame in the new areas using the Saction refresh effect and the rune chopper? Does it make it any more viable in those areas?
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#161 Jun 15 2006 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I hear alot about the Rune Chopper...I just don't like it, I worked too hard to get my Berserker's Axe...but it looks like now that I'm back to having playtime , it may be set to test with that...once I get some MP merits that is.
#162 Jun 21 2006 at 3:48 AM Rating: Good
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I've been using war/drg a lot as of late; going to limbus, dynamis, and hnms with it. I'm still asked to /nin for whenever I decide to join an ls merit pt though since they're kinda crazy on pulling and we need the shadows... I actually never noticed this thread when I decided to do it.

I've tried a variety of weapon combinations (my war can cover all mob weapon type weaknesses) and have found great uses for martial greatsword and rune chopper as a war/drg (yes, /gimp no subduer or martial bhuj). The haste is very noticable when it's all stacked up with rune chopper, though I use a comet tail boomerang for the hp/mp+15 (I tossed my bomb core... so not buying another ><). Obvously w. turbin is a better source for the mp needed for all you who haven't tossed their bomb core or keep buying one lol, but the boomerang is better if and only if you're called to co-tank as a war/whm so that's why I have it <_<. It's funny though, I've noticed a few other war friends giving this a go as well; maybe they got bored and wanted to see how it was for themselves. **** fun is what it is lol.

Was kinda funny jumping with a jadagna club against blunt weak stuff and jailor of temperance, but it still hits decently hard for those specific things. Jumping with joyeuse, company sword, and maneater though is pretty disappointing as expected, though for things weak to piercing inside limbus you'll absolutely rip stuff to pieces with joyeuse solo. 100+ each hit and constantly swinging... it's so nice for those few floors (high jump comes in handy ><). Dynamis is obviously still best with a 2h weapon, though not having to wait for a mob to settle down before using a weapon skill is a nice thing (like trying to line up an SA+WS when the thing just spins around is **** annoying and /drg lets you just burn it whenever and faster). Not to mention the slight range jumps have and you can jump mobs while running after them lol.

It's really quite fun being able to swing really fast with a gaxe though. I don't even have all the other haste gears (wyvern earring +5%, rune chopper +9%, w. turbin +5%, dusk boots +2% are what I have, no dusk gloves or speed/swift belt) but the wyvern earring and rune chopper just kick it up a notch on the cheap. Combined with haste, refresh, and march and you're a melee-machine with an A+ weapon. It will not though give you the highest numbers per swing or per weaponskill, but the haste afforded by it more then makes up for this short coming when speed matters. It's why burn pts are usually best when all the melees have some degree of haste gears, are given haste, and given at least one march. The difference is chain breaking if there's enough mobs around to feed the machine.

While fighting an hnm like fafnir there's really just a few good combos for melees to use: /whm, /thf, /drg, and /nin if you think you may need to help with co-tanking (as a war at least). Personally I really like /drg the best as I miss weapon skills with martial greatsword just a tad less often (usually have to use it to make light with our sams) and get the jumps and free haste.

/drg just kinda refreshes war for those of us already 75 and been there a while. I don't know about y'all but war/nin got old pretty fast for me (it'd probably change if I got a McRidill but that's not gonna happen). I'm far more partial to 2h weapons though and /thf frustrates me to no end in a lot of places (like limbus and dynamis and mobs that can't stay still DAMNTHEM). /drg kinda fixes that a little.

~Ori
#163 Jun 22 2006 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the vote of confidence(Rate ups always appreciated also).
#164 Jun 27 2006 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, finally got drg to 37 just to be a sub to war. I'm going to parse my level 74 party next time I go out to see how it performs, so we can see some good hard numbers. My equip is in my sig, and although I'm not using the rune chopper yet, I think it should still function well. Next level I'll add the turban and chopper, along with Byakkos pants if/when I get them, and I'll post all the reparses here. Just a heads up.

Edit: I do have some swap equipment, of course, and if I use any of it I'll make a note in the post. This is going to be a meat build, using Bison Steak. I may slip into my haub too (as almost everyone is going to say I should), but the harness affords me some tanking potential with my other gear swaps. And I tend to find with this setup, I tank a lot XD

Edited, Jun 27th 2006 at 1:26am EDT by galkaBST
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#165 Jun 27 2006 at 1:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Been curious how the Bhuj +1 performs myself. Refuse to trade out my Berserker's Axe. If you can add more attack anywhere, go for it. Looking forward to seeing some numbers other than my own.
#166 Jun 28 2006 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I screwed up using the parser tonight farming sky items -_-; But I have some numbers that didn't get erased. Average acc as a war/drg was 91%, this is with bison steak and my gear set as listed in sig (91%, really not too shabby with unicorn harness instead of haub). Average damage per battle was between 1000-3000, depending on how long the statues were living. One battle I hit Raging Rush for 800 at the start, used both jumps for 300 and 250 damage, and then proceeded to attack as normal, I think that's the one that hit the 3000 mark (average attacks were 150-200 damage). No other numbers yet, but I was stealing hate a lot. I'll post some tomorrow after I exp. I imagine all of these numbers will go up at 75 as well, once Im in turban and rune chopper, as I said before.

Overall though, Bhuj +1 performed well with its already low delay, may not go to rune chopper at 75 perma, will have to do some tests. Looks like Blz is right, as many others here have said. It really is shaping up to be powerful, with the biggest problem being how to restrain myself from tanking through damage XD. Numbers soon-
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#167 Jun 28 2006 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone thought about using Carbonara for food with this combo? It doesn't have quite as much +STR or +ATK as some of the other food, but it does give you Store TP +6... with a 504 delay Gaxe, we'd need Store TP +5 to reduce our 100% TP interval down to 7 attacks. So if you don't have Rajas ring, this might be a good food choice to try.

Also, if you're using Rune Chopper, the +10 MP would definitely be a benefit.

Edited, Jun 28th 2006 at 12:42pm EDT by Sixpax
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#168 Jun 28 2006 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Building TP with the Combo really isn't much of an issue though, after the first shot. A WS + Jump will usually land you right back up in the 30-50% range. With 2 Jumps, 30-60% is more standard. (Note: Not exact numbers, didn't feel like re-doing the oh-so-basic math, you guys can figure it out for yourselves).

Onto the point of Store TP however.

Food:
Arrabiato
Str 5 Vit 2 Int -7 Atk: 22% HP: 12% Store TP +5 Cooking 96(Uncertain of Atk Cap)

Gear:
Attila's Earring
Store TP +1 (Put it in the slot not using your Wyvern Earring)

Ulfhedinn Axe
Lv. 72 Dmg: 91 Delay: 504 Store TP +1

And of course...

Raja's Ring
Str +2~5 Dex +2~5 Subtle Blow +5 Store TP +5

Anyone want to share how many hits it would take with Store TP +12?
#169 Jun 28 2006 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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blz wrote:
Anyone want to share how many hits it would take with Store TP +12?

Unfortunately, it would take Store TP +22 to get our interval down to 6 attacks :( The only way you're going to be able to pull that off is to sub SAM (for +15) and add another +7 somewhere.

For the record, the formula for calculating TP per attack is:

Base weapon TP * (1 + (0.01 * Store TP)) and then truncate (not round) everything after the 1st decimal number. You can get the base TP numbers for each weapon from http://ffxi.cannotlinkto

So for instance, with Store TP +12 and a 504 delay Gaxe you'd get:

13.7 * 1.12 = 15.3 TP per swing (need 16.7 to get a 6 attack interval)

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#170 Jun 28 2006 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Went out today to a Caedava Mire pt, damage % went a little like this:

Thf/nin- 33% (Ridill thf with capped sword/dagger merits, triple att, etc. Was a machine)
Drg/war- 27%
War/drg- 24%

So, as you can see, I was in a pretty compromising situation because of the drgs natural advantage vs both the imps we were fighting and the flies. However, if I was using raging rush the full time I probably would have at least tied the drg, but I chose to full break instead to help penta thrust along. Was a nice pt, I think the combo is only going to get better once I get 75 and all the haste gear. My only concern was that my acc today was ~80%, which is pretty lousy for me. Probably have to pick up a haub again, at least :). More updates soon, next time I'll post full charts.
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#171 Jun 29 2006 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry, but you had a Thf and a Drg...the Drg shouldn't have even been touching Penta Thrust. Wheeling will put up about the same numbers, and the Thf could've closed off a nice Light SC.

Besides which, as a former Drg, unless you are building to 200% TP each time, Penta really takes a back seat to Skewer.
#172 Jul 02 2006 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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He was using wheeling too, but that's neither here nor there XD. Just wanted to update that I hit 75, got my turban and rune chopper, so I'm using a 19% haste build that I'm going to parse as soon as I can. I'm going to farm first to get my Byrnie back, don't think I really need a haub for what I'm planning to do with my war (mainly merit, my other duties are tanking which dont really need a haub anyhow). I'll be posting soon, loving war/drg though, that's for sure.

Ps. Survivability isn't an issue so far, but we'll see what happens in the future lol
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#173 Jul 08 2006 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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#174 Jul 08 2006 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Shameless self promotion: the thread (a bump), or my posts? :P If it was a reply to me, I prepared a lovely reply.

Edited, Jul 8th 2006 at 2:30pm EDT by galkaBST
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#175 Jul 08 2006 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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really nice thread

/bump
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#176 Jul 08 2006 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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blz was clearly just bumping the thread as it has been discussed in other threads on the forums. In this case I think it is safe to assume he is shameless promoting his thread (which is rather valuable as it is about the only thread on the subject in this forum).
#177 Jul 08 2006 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes, clearly bumping.

Sidenote: I still can't justify Rune Chopper over Berserker's, if only for those massive and often criticals with the latter.
#178 Jul 08 2006 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Here's some numbers:

War/Drg
Gunslinger
Total Fights: 155
Average Damage: 1014.1
Average Percent: 23.84
Average Accuracy: 84.16

War/Nin
Player 1. Using Maneater/Joy toy, using Hauberk, Supa, etc.
Total Fights: 154
Average Damage: 1070.39
Average Percent: 25.51
Average Accuracy: 91.78

Nin/War
Player 2.
Total Fights: 149
Average Damage: 1149.45
Average Percent: 26.51
Average Accuracy: 93.62

I think the important thing to note is that both the war/nin and nin/war were hasted, while I was not (for some reason, guess I dont make DoT :P). Anyhow, I think with a Haub my damage would be even, if not better than the war/nin. If Haub + hasted, I have no doubt I would have been ahead. Just some evidence, more to come once I get more merits (this party let me get my 2nd Great Axe merit, so I'm at 280 now) and some more acc gear. It's always intimidating going up against war/nins with multi-hit weps, hopefully the gap can actually be closed.
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#179 Jul 09 2006 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Look at the difference between your own damage and the war/nins. Even without haste, you were only an average of 60 damage(1 hit) behind him. I'd say that's pretty good evidence that the gap is closed.
#180 Jul 14 2006 at 8:46 PM Rating: Decent
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VT Party, both me and war/nin hasted. (Would've been longer but **** net crashed)

War/Drg with Hedgehog Pie
Total Fights: 39
Total Damage: 63434
Average Damage: 1626.51
Average Percent: 35.28
Average Accuracy: 84.9

War/Nin with Sole Sushi
Total Fights: 39
Total Damage: 51755
Average Damage: 1327.05
Average Percent: 28.54
Average Accuracy: 83.13

Difference in Total Damage over 35 Minute Parse: 11679
Difference in Average Damage over 35 Minute Parse: 299.46

Other Party Memebers: Pld, Sam, Whm, Brd

Sam/War with Sole Sushi (For Comparison)
Total Fights: 39
Total Damage: 45115
Average Damage: 1156.79
Average Percent: 24.88
Average Accuracy: 86.77
#181 Jul 15 2006 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm... I havn't read all the posts but in gear i have 20% haste. If i get wyvern earring and rune chopper will that increase it further or is it true it caps at 25% :s
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#182 Jul 15 2006 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Oddly, I never bothered researching into the haste % caps, but it does seem to be around 25%. If it if, just gives me another reason to leave the Rune Chopper alone.
#183 Jul 15 2006 at 7:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Blz exp with me in Bhafflau Thickets i still don't think my war/drg can beat my war/nin...
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#184 Jul 15 2006 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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Arkia wrote:
Hmmm... I havn't read all the posts but in gear i have 20% haste. If i get wyvern earring and rune chopper will that increase it further or is it true it caps at 25% :s


It is true, but it also seems like haste equipment doesn't give exactly the % written on them. For example Haidate gives something like 4.XX% haste (I don't really know exact numbers and I don't really care) so to reach the cap you need 26 or 27%.

And also the enchantment of Haste Belt doesn't count towards the equipment cap, but probably towards the spell cap. You could use your Rune Chopper to get 25% and then just use that belt to get to 35% before spells are factored in.
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#185 Jul 17 2006 at 1:35 AM Rating: Decent
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3 new parses.

War/Drg
Total Dmg: 29936
Total Fights: 13
Average Damage: 2302.77
Average Percent: 39.57
Average Accuracy: 67.57

Rng/Nin
Total Dmg: 26189
Total Fights: 13
Average Damage: 2014.54
Average Percent: 33.9
Average Accuracy: 69.6

Difference in Total Damage: 3747
Difference in Average Damage: 288.23


War/Drg
Total Dmg: 39419
Total Fights: 25
Average Damage: 1576.76
Average Percent: 37.94
Average Accuracy: 82.48

War/Nin 1
Total Dmg: 34235
Total Fights: 25
Average Damage: 1426.46
Average Percent: 34.95
Average Accuracy: 90.38

Difference in Total Damage: 5184
Difference in Average Damage: 150.3

War/Drg
Total Dmg: 96814
Total Fights: 50
Average Damage: 1936.28
Average Percent: 43.86
Average Accuracy: 89.76

War/Nin 2
Total Dmg: 77843
Total Fights: 50
Average Damage: 1621.73
Average Percent: 34.82
Average Accuracy: 90.69

Difference in Total Damage: 18971
Difference in Average Damage: 314.55
#186 Aug 21 2006 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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#187 Aug 26 2006 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
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hello !!!
Sticky where are you?

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#188 Sep 29 2006 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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sticky please admin.....
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#189 Oct 06 2006 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello. I am a War/Drg on Shiva. I have taken it from war 30 to 46 subbing Drg, and yes, have read the guide. If anyone wants to get together and run some tests send a /tell. I'm not the blz scholar, but if you have questions just ask, anytime.
#190 Jun 18 2007 at 1:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I read so little on here now that I JUST noticed that this is in the stickies...I may have to start refining this again for 70-75...
#191Reichleiu, Posted: Mar 09 2009 at 9:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Dragoon and Warriro are both 2 of my favorites jobs... (Along with thf/bst/same)
#192 Mar 09 2009 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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#193 Mar 10 2009 at 12:32 AM Rating: Excellent
/sam > /drg.
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#194 Mar 10 2009 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Dead thread should still be dead.
/Drg is not overlooked. In fact it's the most commonly known sub job to use from 30 to 50-60, when /Sam out performs. And then at 70 when /Sam offers a nice, although not reliable, defensive ability, /Drg is not longer an option other than fun, and a runner up to /sam.
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#195 Mar 10 2009 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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#196 Mar 10 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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War/Drg is really fun at high levels when you have a Drg in your group that you can make cry with higher damage Jumps


Oh and Hi Gerkin!(coughEnicough)
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#197 Mar 10 2009 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Holy crêpe. It's LT!

And WAR/DRG is > WAR/SAM before 50. Thanks.
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#198 Mar 10 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Nostalgia....
#199 Mar 10 2009 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Saddly the only thing I really remember about /Drg and /Sam is that about 50% into any god fight I was usually enjoying the ever pleasing taste of the sky soil.

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#200 Mar 10 2009 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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Saddly the only thing I really remember about /Drg and /Sam is that about 50% into any god fight I was usually enjoying the ever pleasing taste of the sky soil.

Cermet is tasty.
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WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#201 Mar 10 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
lolgaxe wrote:
Screenshot
I thought you hadn't read watchmen?
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Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
Mojo gets it Smiley: thumbsup
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