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A guide to performing as a Warrior/DragoonFollow

#77 Jan 29 2006 at 6:21 PM Rating: Good
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Did you read the thread?


Reading a thread and then responding to things without stating stuff that has already been stated make an awesome combo.

are you talking about me?
sorry i havent seen those.
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#78 Jan 30 2006 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Edit is done. Ninozz, yes I did mention it right at the start. In fact, I said right there that without the Wyvern Earring(which is the one you are speaking of) this combination is rather worthless. I know, I tried it pre-wyvern earring to no real avail. If you don't have a Wyvern Earring and still want to go Gax, use /thf or tank with /mnk. Jump alone does not justify subbing Drg.

Think of it like this: The Wyvern Earring is to Dragoon Sub as Utsusemi is to Ninja Sub.

Secondly no, I don't need an update on gear. This gear is speaking as to what I have accomplished so far, or what is in the near(i.e. within 5 lvls) future. No, I have not discussed a haste build. There is a reason I have not: At lvl 60 there is not enough haste gear that is worth getting. The earring is fine, it's 5% and I lose what? 5 Attack. What else would you have me give up? My Lifebelt perhaps? I'm sorry, but seeing as Great Axe suffers so horribly with Sushi in my experience, the haste build has not yet justified itself. A 10% gain in accuracy for a 30-50% loss in damage output is not worth another 6% haste(nor is the bloody price tag).

Now, when I get to the lvl that I can use a Rune Chopper, will I? most honestly, no. I don't have any natural MP, and I feel it would be a waste to add onto the Refresh cycle needlessly. Berserker's Axe FTW. Will my opinion change at that lvl? Perhaps. Time will tell.
#79 Jan 31 2006 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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First edit didn't go ************ pc crashed). I skipped most of it to include the start of my Skillchains section. Happy Hunting.
#80 Feb 01 2006 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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edited again, with some parser results and another PT build.
#81 Feb 01 2006 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Good idea to add parses & gear listing and very interesting informations, me and a friend have been itching to see if war/drg could be viable for xp, and there it is. I think you'd get even more power when reaching 70 with high jump & barone pieces (jump tp bonus).

what's bothering me is that in your listing you're actually not using wyvern earring, which is THE item that made this sub kinda attractive to me in the first place ... or was it just your ws stuff ?
#82 Feb 01 2006 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, I should have included it, but as it is stated earlier in the thread, without the wyvern earring, this subjob is rather useless. Unless otherwise listed, always assume I am wearing my Wyvern Earring as War/Drg

Edit: Sorry, just re-read what I wrote...don't list gear when Exhausted><. To Clarify, and it has been adjusted, I was wearing the Wyvern Earring and the Assault Earring. Thank you.

Edited, Wed Feb 1 15:39:01 2006 by blz
#83 Feb 03 2006 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Now I have to get my hands on one of them (Wyvern earring), and have many question in mind war/thf with meat PCC & haste : could it be good ?

Like you pointed out, you dumped approximatively 12% acc for more dmg, which was obviously a good choice seeing the parser results, the thing is that with/thf since you don't have that +5% haste, it might be a bit harder to follow the tp rate of a sushi user (like, another war, or drk for fragmentation, or even a rng).

I suppose getting hasted on top of having +5 is important too, but since I don't have a haubergeon (using someone's byrnie), noor 2 acc+5 rings (1 sniper + venerer atm) and even less an assault earring (yes, you can call me gimp) and my drg is 10, I won't be able to try this anytime soon, {That's too bad.}
#84 Feb 03 2006 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I won't call you gimp. They are expensive items. I got Drg to 66 with just a Ven Ring and a Str, eating sushi, and lifebelt of course. Stopped at 60 Drg to farm for SH and my Acc rings, and assault, so I've had the same chunk of gil circulating between jobs as needed for awhile. When that goes bad, I BCNM or Merc-Blm for KSNM 30 and hope for the best while still farming.
#85 Feb 06 2006 at 10:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Adding yet more Parser data to share the power of War/Drg. While I didn't check the Drk's gear specifically sadly, he did have on a Haubergeon. Party Setup as follows:
Pld/War
Drk/Thf 63 9k tnl, Scythe Capped
War/Drg 63 just made(600 into it) Gax capped during PT.
Brd/Whm
Rdm/Blm
Whm/Blm

Party Time: ~1:10 minutes hour
Exp Gained: 7k
Camp: Labyrinth of Onzozo: Gobs and Torama
Total Fights: 39

Drk/Thf:
Total Damage: 41836
% of mob: 29.36%
Melee Damage: 26924
Spell Damage: 1216
Skill Damage: 13495
Accuracy: 84.6%
Eating: Sole Sushi

War/Drg:
Total Damage: 76506
% of mob: 53.65%
Melee Damage: 51686
Skill Damage: 18785
Accuracy: 85.56%
Eating: Coeurl sub

Again showing the hype on sushi, that I parsed over him without using it myself, but I can't confirm this entirely since I didn't check his gear. I think though, if he had eaten meat, we would've done even better.

Edited, Mon Feb 6 10:24:45 2006 by blz
#86 Feb 07 2006 at 7:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Since I'm getting PLD and DRG pretty close to 40, I realised I should go back and level WAR which was stuck at 20.

I quickly discovered the reason I'd not levelled WAR; MNK is only 10.
So, I thought, let's see what Stats /DRG gives me.

Wow!
More STR, more DEX than MNK.

So I got to 24 and outdamaged every other melee in the party by a TON.

Even funnier, the Sam and I had to 2 hour in yesterday's party because the Nin got nailed, and the Sam's 2 hour did around 60 damage total.
I did about 500, and the mob died, so I couldn't keep hitting it.

Oh it was lovely!
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BLM:30, WHM: 51, DRG: 41, PLD: 38, MNK: 12, WAR: 24, BRD: 20, SMN: 25, BST: 9, RDM: 5, THF: 24 RNG: 19, DRK: -- , SAM: 19, NIN: 6
#87 Feb 07 2006 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Sorry to go off topic a bit here but.... Angel your way off, Sushi does not beat meat, sorry.

My equipment is as follows:

Fransisca
Darksteel Axe +1
Combat casters Boomerang +1
Valkyrie's Mask
Peacock Charm
Minuet Earring
Assault Earring
Haubergeon
Spiked Finger Gauntlents
Woodsman ring x2
Amemet Mantle +1
Life Belt
AF Pants
AF Legs

So that comes to, +48 Accuracy (without combat casters in effect and Minuet in effect, because my static PT has a BRD) and +44 Attack.

I use Hedgehog Pie:

Effects for Hedgehog Pie:
HP +55
Strength +6
Vitality +2
Intelligence -3
Mind +3
MP Regeneration While Healing +2
Attack +18% (Cap: 90@500 Base Attack)
Ranged Attack +18% (Cap: 90@500 Base Ranged Attack)
Accuracy +5

Bringing my attack with absolutely no buffs to: 384 and Accuracy to +53. With my BRD's 2x Minuet im near 450 attack with no berserk and if we are in an area outside my nations controls my accuracy will be +57. Sushi does cap, and from what I understand it caps at +39 Accuracy.

Meaning if your wearing +20 Accuracy and using sushi youll have +59, a total of 2 more accuracy then me and a loss of 70+ attack.

Someone that has invested as much as I have in WAR will outparse Sushi in every way possible with meat at all levels and thats a fact.


Edited, Tue Feb 7 08:53:30 2006 by Cailee

Edited, Tue Feb 7 08:55:40 2006 by Cailee
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#88 Feb 07 2006 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Someone that has invested as much as I have in WAR will outparse Sushi in every way possible with meat at all levels and thats a fact.



It really isn't.
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#89 Feb 07 2006 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Someone that has invested as much as I have in WAR will outparse Sushi in every way possible with meat at all levels and thats a fact.


Actually, that is a blatant disregard of game mechanics and oversimplification of the truth. Each food has its own situation, and each setup has its best food. Dual Axes, I've never seen Meat come even close to Sushi. Great Axe, I've never seen Sushi come close enough to Meat to matter. Sorry, but to kidnap Archangel's Saying:

Quote:
You fail.
#90 Feb 07 2006 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow, you say nothing other then I'm wrong. You have a probable 2-12 Accuracy more then me and I have a 90%+ Accuracy rating with 70-80 more attack. Gear can reach a 90%+ accuracy rating on IT, but there is not enough gear to make up the attack difference meat gives. Numbers dont lie, I'm sorry you cant count.

Edited, Tue Feb 7 18:34:17 2006 by Cailee

Edited, Tue Feb 7 18:59:49 2006 by Cailee
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#91 Feb 07 2006 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I read on KI that sushi has 39 cap; ffxi and somepage don't list a cap. Is there proof that sushi does have a cap? Attack is easy to measure since it is a number listed on your equipment page.

Determining accuracy involves adding gear with accuracy to determine when a mob changes accuracy rating. This would set the baseline of how much accuracy is required to change a mob to low defense.

To determine sushi accuracy, you would then eat sushi and then add gear to change the mob to low defense. Take the baseline and subtract the added gear to get the sushi accuracy.

If someone knows of a link of experiments done to determine sushi accuracy and/or sushi accuracy cap, I would be interested in reading it.

It's not that I don't believe KI, I just don't believe everything I read. Determining this for all sushi types is both expensive and time consuming - making me wonder if someone actually went through the trouble to do it. However, I do know that there are people with entirely too much time on their hands.
#92 Feb 07 2006 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm personally of the belief that sushi doesn't directly give +acc, but rather affects the accuracy equation in some other way. And if it does directly give +acc, I'm of the belief that the %acc values listed for it is well beneath what it actually gives. All of my experiences with Sushi have been such that I would not achieve a similar accuracy rate if I equipped as much +acc gear as Sushi purportedly gives.

Also, Cailee, there's no way you should have 70/80 attack more than a sushi user unless they're only equipping acc gear, in which place you're bragging about being better than gimps.
#93 Feb 07 2006 at 9:13 PM Rating: Good
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Actually Fury, tell me all the attack pieces equippable by WAR. I can guarantee that 90% of the Attack/STR items your using a meat user is too. The only things I could see different in terms for a Sushi user is Swordbelt+1, STR+ rings and a Royal Collar (+4 attack) for a whole +20 attack more then a meat user would have pre food. I can use Bomb Core in most instances, since Hedgehog Pie offer +5 Accuracy replacing Combat casters boomerang.

My static PT has a BRD, pushing my Attack near 450 base attack power. Allowing Hedgehog pies to almost cap out at +90 Attack, granting yes after counting small subtractions, +70-80 more attack then a sushi user.
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#94 Feb 07 2006 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Fury,

In her gear she mentions 44 attack, but I think its 49 attack. One drawback in her gear setup is that it is low in strength (+8; 14 with food). With hedgehog pie giving around 80 attack, she would be 56 attack higher than my setup, but 10 STR lower than my setup. And I would say that I am not gimp.

I would try that kind of setup, but unfortunately I dont have a peacock charm, assault earring, second woodsman, or af legs. I did try meat on VT raptors in Ugglerand range in the low 60s with a bard doing madrigal with +32ACC and it just didn't work for me. Now that I am playing NIN in addition to WAR, RDM and BLM, I really don't have plans to funnel another 35-40mil into WAR.

I don't know what her damage looks like, but if I had that gear, I would test replacing the spike finger gauntlets for enkylados or pallas bracelets to make up for the low strength.
#95 Feb 07 2006 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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Enekelado's are macro WS only. Also I haven't been able to sell my Spiked Finger Gauntlents back, none have sold in like 10 days. Damage looks like 60-70 per hit, 80+ with berserk, Rampage average 500-600, 17/17% TP ones have landed 900-1000 on IT.
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#96 Feb 07 2006 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I wear my enkylados full time (though I don't have the spike finger gauntlets). They are around the same price on my server. I think the giant bracelet line are great for mithra, because the -DEX/AGI don't bother me and it compensates for mithra low STR. I would think with your high attack, boosting STR might increase your regular hit damage.

If I had unlimited gil, I would keep tinkering with my setup to get the best results. It was kind of stupid for me to switch from sushi in ugglerand to meat; because I did a 989 rampage before switching and was doing great damage. However, something inside just wanted me to tryout a different setup.
#97 Feb 07 2006 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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I finally decide to check this thread out and find that it's really a sushi vs. meat thread in disguise.

Quote:
Someone that has invested as much as I have in WAR will outparse Sushi in every way possible with meat at all levels and thats a fact.



Wow that's a pretty broad statement. Have you considered that the reason you do so much better than other Wars is not because of meat, but because you have between 50-100 million in gear? I know that having a Bard is a crucial factor. I might be convinced that meat + Brd is sometimes better than sushi + Brd if you had at least one set of parsed results with you and a sushi War who also has 100 million in gear. But how can you claim that it's always better in all circumstances? Your setup has a lot of attack, but has little STR and no haste. If I had your gil I'd still be using sushi but I'd throw a speed belt in there.

I used to be a die hard meat fan, but Rampage is so dependent on accuracy. Since it has an increased chance at criticals it really rewards you to consistently have all of your hits land. I very reluctantly gave up meat for Rampage, so its going to take more than a gear setup and some boasting to convince me that meat is better. Furthermore it would take a **** of a lot of parsing to convince me that meat is better than sushi without a Bard.
#98 Feb 07 2006 at 10:41 PM Rating: Default
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My BRD doesnt even use Madrigal, so. . .? I don't understand.

Like I said my accuracy is high 80, low 90% accuracy on IT monsters. I don't need parsing because I know exactly how much accuracy sushi gives at my level and how much most people will wear accompanied with it. Normal sushi user would have in a normal sushi setup, 2-12 more accuracy then me. I'm not sure about you but if there was a choice between a setup having +12 more accuracy or +70 attack I would probably take attack every time.

On Proccessionaires/Torama I had no trouble landing 15/15 Rampages or 17/17 Rampages...so I really dont understand where your coming from, sorry.

Edited, Tue Feb 7 22:44:39 2006 by Cailee

Edited, Tue Feb 7 22:57:26 2006 by Cailee
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#99 Feb 08 2006 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow, you say nothing other then I'm wrong. You have a probable 2-12 Accuracy more then me and I have a 90%+ Accuracy rating with 70-80 more attack. Gear can reach a 90%+ accuracy rating on IT, but there is not enough gear to make up the attack difference meat gives. Numbers dont lie, I'm sorry you cant count.


Quote:
My equipment is as follows:

Fransisca : O
Darksteel Axe +1 : X Balance Buckler(This is a War/Drg discussion)
Combat casters Boomerang +1 : O
Valkyrie's Mask : X Sold for AF
Peacock Charm : X RG Collar
Minuet Earring :X Wyvern Earring
Assault Earring : O
Haubergeon : O
Spiked Finger Gauntlents : X Sold for AF Gloves
Woodsman ring x2 : O
Amemet Mantle +1 : O
Life Belt : O
AF Legs : X RK Pants have been doing better
AF Feet : O



And I eat Coeurl Subs. So lets see...I have...9-12 less acc than you do in gear, and /drg trait for a flat 10...so 2 less than you at best. And no Static Brd. Just having a Static Brd already skews your results. Not running a parser to show the community your claim of high accuracy with this setup and meat is just making it your opinion with nothing to back it up. Since opinion's can't be wrong, I can't say you are wrong. I can still say however, you fail. Now I have PT'd with a War/Nin with the same setup that you have -PCC(RG Collar) and eating meat, and they only did 300 more damage than the war/nin with sushi and 500 less damage than me as War/Drg with meat.

Anyway, back on topic(This is what I get for making offhand comments and inserting personal observations). Please try to keep this about discussing and questioning War/Drg instead of making it Meat vs Sushi, because everyone has their opinion about what works best.
#100 Feb 08 2006 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually I was just saying that your current setup will not always beat a sushi warrior.



In fact I am pretty sure that a full haste build ridill war using sushi would probably stomp you flat, or even a full haste build joyeuse warrior, assuming you continued your trend of buying the really expensive items.



Your wallet is whats winning you in parsers. Grats.
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Luminaire wrote:

Luminaire's Law states that if you played only SMN or BLM to 75, you suck. No exceptions.

the only good mages are people who played melee first/also. just a mage = ****** player. always. the only good mages that didn't play melee are using bots to cure. true story.


GrumpyWookie wrote:
If god was a woman every full moon there would be floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes. The week after that there would be chocolate.
#101 Feb 08 2006 at 5:47 AM Rating: Good
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Hay guyz wutz goin on in dis topik?

Another food debate huh? Nice... >_>

Give it up you meat eaters, a 99% hit rate gives people boners. We all know boners control a man.

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
Someone that has invested as much as I have in WAR will outparse Sushi in every way possible with meat at all levels and thats a fact.






It really isn't.


It really is.

Seriously though, I don't really know. I just have a hard time taking this subject seriously anymore. =P
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