Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

A guide to performing as a Warrior/DragoonFollow

#102 Feb 08 2006 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
778 posts
I still take it seriously. I just dinged 65 and waiting on Full Break now to see if I can do enough to get off Full Break at start, Raging Rush at middle. Should know by the end of the day. Also plan to be parsing AF against the Thick gear when I get to 69(Both sets to be tested with berserker's axe).
#103 Feb 08 2006 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Umm... yeah I think we should really go back to the main subject, war/drg and how does it work, up to now blz has provided enough infos & parse results (for me at least) that I have to take into consideration using this sub for xp AND using meat with it, especially with madrigal/gravity, and moreso with some thick gear.

That being said ... blz do you think war/thf *meat* would be doable considering your gear (minus the wyvern earring of course) or is haste, jump & acc bonus trait too important for it to be done without a brd ?

I know it's giving up a lot for sneak attack "only", but my drg is 10 atm and I need some gaxe fun >_> (and when you put /nin in your comment 80% of the time you'll be asked to /nin).

To conclude this post, please don't turn this thread into a "my equip > your equip" or "meat <> sushi" I think every forum had enough of those.

On a sidenote, I finally got my haub (and a 9m debt, friends are good). So i'm a little closer to the "good" side of war equip.
#104 Feb 08 2006 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
844 posts
Quote:
My BRD doesnt even use Madrigal, so. . .? I don't understand.

Like I said my accuracy is high 80, low 90% accuracy on IT monsters. I don't need parsing because I know exactly how much accuracy sushi gives at my level and how much most people will wear accompanied with it. Normal sushi user would have in a normal sushi setup, 2-12 more accuracy then me. I'm not sure about you but if there was a choice between a setup having +12 more accuracy or +70 attack I would probably take attack every time.

On Proccessionaires/Torama I had no trouble landing 15/15 Rampages or 17/17 Rampages...so I really dont understand where your coming from, sorry.


You have no way of knowing how well you are doing without a parser. A lot of times things you can assume to be true are actually false. For example did you know that attack has a cap? Generally sushi eaters are told to get as much attack as possible, and for sushi eaters that is good advice. If you eat meat, berserk and get double minuet then can easily hit the cap. Also your spike finger gauntlets are useless in this situation.

Also sushi tends to parse a higher accuracy than +39 in gear. On top of that attack has diminishing returns even before hitting the cap, but you are no where near the cap for STR. With all that attack you have you'd probably be better off with Enky/Pallas bracelets full time.

Really you would be better off with Madrigal + Minuet, although if your accuracy is really as good as you say, then you'd benefit most from Minuet + March. There is no way to really know though, because you don't parse your results. You can come and claim that you'd outdo sushi in everyway possible, but you don't even know how much damage you are doing, let alone everyone else. How can you say things like "that's a fact" when you have zero evidence to back it up?
#105 Feb 08 2006 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
778 posts
Quote:
Umm... yeah I think we should really go back to the main subject, war/drg and how does it work, up to now blz has provided enough infos & parse results (for me at least) that I have to take into consideration using this sub for xp AND using meat with it, especially with madrigal/gravity, and moreso with some thick gear.


Thank you. I'll have Thick set parses up as soon as I can, also.

Quote:
do you think war/thf *meat* would be doable considering your gear (minus the wyvern earring of course) or is haste, jump & acc bonus trait too important for it to be done without a brd ?


I've had a War/Thf with me several times from 61-63, and our TP gain wasn't massively different. The combo works fine, just if you have a War/Drg with you, be prepared to be 50% behind(This is if you time Berserk+Aggressor so that both of you coincide, and can take those VT's for TP gain when it's down). The War/Thf was eating meat more often than not. It's not that she didn't like Sushi on Torama, it's just that she couldn't afford to buy anymore sushi just then. Once she changed to meat, both with and without bard, her overall damage went up about 200-600 per battle, and Raging Rush was landing a **** of a lot harder. With a Bard it's obviously better, but without a Bard it works just fine too. Shrug off when you go on those horrid whiff-fests(they do happen, regardless of what you eat), and have fun.
#106 Feb 08 2006 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
30 posts
Wow very well done guide i must say When i take up war agian i'll be subing drg


ps:


STICKY !
#107 Feb 09 2006 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
****
5,113 posts
Before I put WAR on a little haitus I was leveling DRG to sub for WAR... I can't wait to actually be able to try it out someday.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI: MIDGARDSORMR
75:W A R// ::retired::

World of Warcraft: Crushridge [H]
Oztroja:D R U I D
#108 Feb 12 2006 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
**
624 posts
On my secondary character(mainly mage jobs and BST[no need to worry about axe skill due to BST:D])I recently started leveling WAR, probably only going to 37, I've been subbing DRG since Lv20(Lv28 currently)...

I can tell you for sure 20-28 at the very least WAR/DRG is a powerhouse, nothing else seems to come close... been hitting Sturmwinds for over 200DMG already(Rice Dumpling/Berzerk[No BRD]) as far as accuracy goes... not as high as high as it could be... but when I'm hitting for often 4x the dmg of other players using 1h weapons(15-20) and crticaling for their WS dmg(100-130), I really don't mind.^^

I do realize that the power of 2H weapons drops off, but that won't be before Lv37(It's a long way off) so I'm content with sticking to WAR/DRG till 37(Possibly beyond that if I actually decide to level NIN... I'll probably stick with /DRG until 54 if I do, then pick it up again @60)

It's incredibly fun to play!
____________________________
We met in the mist of morning
And parted deep in the night
Broken sword and shield, and tears that never fall
But run through the heart
Washed away by the darkest water
The world is peaceful and still

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmVU08zVpA
It's my **** in a box!
#109 Feb 16 2006 at 2:37 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
778 posts
I've yet to see the supposed drop off in 2handed weapon damage, and this is through 66 levels of Drg and 66 levels of War.
#110 Feb 16 2006 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
936 posts
I will be going with /DRG full time as soon as i get my Great Axe and Axe leveled..They are at skill 100 and my WAR is level 46 lol..

Things to note for the future of /DRG:

Barrone Gear
Rune Weapons (Great Axe, and Pole arm are very ****)
More Haste Gear.
____________________________
  • I
  • d Dragon

    Server: Gilgamesh
    Jobs: MNK 75,WAR 46,DRG 43,SAM 48,THF 42,BLU 36,NIN 35,BLM 18, RNG 17, WHM 11

    Lv.40 MNK/DRG: A Dream...@ 90%.
    Lv.75 MNK/war's Profile:
    _::_)7


    Random:
    GARDEN! It su no hikawaaah. deaeruto ne-ga~a~tah...
    GARDEN! Sugi yuku~kono kisetsu nonakede-itsu made~mo..
    #111 Feb 16 2006 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Barone Gear: Good Macro pieces for the extra TP gain.

    Rune Weapons: Better to wait til you have some merits before considering seriously, this way you won't have to sacrifice gear slots and extend the refresh cycles.

    Just conjecture, not able to test it(yet).
    #112 Feb 21 2006 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Just want to keep this on first page if people get curious, not expecting to get sticky or anything. No update just yet.
    #113 Feb 27 2006 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    *sigh* moving woes, haven't had playtime really lately, been scanning these boards for my FFXI fix. Just encouraging people to read this again. I hopped back onto the Drg boards for a bit, realized how fuggin stupid it is over there, and came back here, where it isn't a self-help group. Woot to the mutha fuggin Noot.
    #114 Mar 06 2006 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    A few more days til my computer arrives at my new home. Hopefully then I'll have the time to get the next level and parse out the Thick set. One thing I did want to say, the Coral gear is pretty **** good. A little less HP, a lot less enmity, 1 less str and 2 more dex from the NQs. Still need the find the HQ boots to try those vs the AF boots, but so far the NQ stuff has been performing rather nicely.
    #115 Mar 08 2006 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    20 posts
    does subbin drg make u lose alot of ur defence or just a small percent ??????
    sry if this was asked already 8(
    ____________________________
    75smn 75mnk
    34drg 39whm
    30sam 68thf
    32nin 8)
    60war
    #116 Mar 08 2006 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    /Drg has the same inherrent defense as /Nin, as derived from Vitality. The only differences would be in gear.

    /Mnk has about 1 more point of defense than /Drg.
    /Thf has about 2 points less defense than /Drg.

    Mini-guide to Warrior/Dragoon Tanking

    1. Find a Good Support Team! Brd/Whm Rdm/Whm Blm/Whm is my preferred tanking support team. A good amount of MP to move around, some big emergency cures from the RDM or BLM to Divine Seal if needed, Bard can keep a regen song and an acc song on you at all times.

    2. Save you TP! Build TP as quickly as you can on the first mob. Every mob after that, try to open with a WS followed by a Jump. This will help the mob die faster and also cement some hate onto you right after using Provoke.

    3. Avoid Tanking with Axe and Shield in XP. While it is possible, you will usually not generate enough hate to keep the mob on you.

    4. Invest in enmity+ gear. Do so carefully. If you can get some enmity on a ring or earring go for it, if its on a belt or other item, be wary as to its defensive and offensive bonuses and defects.

    5. Have Fun.
    Suggestions

    1.Create the following Macro:
    /target <bt>
    /ja "Jump" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Provoke" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /attack <bt>

    Use this macro as soon as the mob is in range. Spam until Jump procs and then wait for the rest to follow.

    2.Use Jump when TP is 0-12% or directly after a WS. In the first usage, it allows you to build TP faster while adding some hate as long as it lands. In the second usage, it adds another hit to your WS every 1:30.

    Example WS Macro:
    /ws "Shield Break" <t>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Jump" <t>

    Replace WS with your WS of choice. Suggested Weapon skills(Use as obtained):
    Shield Break
    Weapon Break
    Full Break

    3. Eat for Offense, Gear for Defense. Meat Mith or Chiefkabobs have always netted me good results when tanking, regardless of subjob. Get some good heavy armor, but don't sacrifice defense in excess of 3 points to do so. Use Defender at all times once it is available.

    Example of Armor Choices:
    Lv. 40 Breastplate is good for Pld Tanking.
    Lv. 40 Royal Squire's Chainmail is good for Warrior DD and Tanking.

    4. Always use the Great Axe. While you can, in theory, XP tank with an Axe and Shield Combo, at higher levels you just won't be putting up enough damage to keep the hate. Make your life easier by using the Great Axe. It is, after all, your friend.

    edit: Spelling and Formatting.

    Edited, Wed Mar 8 12:04:16 2006 by blz
    #117 Mar 08 2006 at 12:40 PM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Added 3 new sections: Light SC, Full Break and Pld Dark SC, and just a gear idea, Parses pending once I get my com back and running again.

    Oh, and to those who are rating me down: Have some cojone's, say why you are rating me down, so at least someone can respect that you have an opinion other than "This don't Work Because I Said So!".
    #118 Mar 08 2006 at 4:13 PM Rating: Default
    *
    223 posts
    Quote:
    You can come and claim that you'd outdo sushi in everyway possible, but you don't even know how much damage you are doing, let alone everyone else.



    This is kinda old, but meh. Hey Yarunk how about you go to and look up Sole sushi. How do you need a parse to do simple math? Take your base Axe skill at lets say level 65, which I happen to know Axe caps at 2 points less then you need for Mistral axe, so 245 (with accuracy gear equipped) x .15 = 36.75 Accuracy. Now lets say your wearing a Haubergeon and a Life Belt and Assault earring also. So 58.75 accuracy total congratulations you just figured out how much accuracy you have. Now lets say your using Hedgehog Pie and your wearing: Haubergeon (+10), Sniper's rings x2 (+10), Life Belt (+10), Peacock Charm (+10), Assault Earring (+2), Minuet Earring (+3), and AF pants (+3), with Hedgehog Pie (+5) = 53 Accuracy. Neither of these take into account DEX bonuses.

    Wow your sushi just gave you a whole 5.75 more accuracy and my meat gives me (taking into account attack bonuses added on to skill, just like I did with gear on sushi) 265 x .18 = 47.7 Attack. Added together with my gear to a total of +89 Attack, Meat falls short of Sushi in accuracy by what 5-15 at the most (unless your piling on all accuracy gear + sushi which is diminishing returns), but beats sushi by almost 50 Attack and only gets a larger difference as you level.

    Quote:
    How can you say things like "that's a fact" when you have zero evidence to back it up?


    I can count and compare.

    Also talking about diminishing returns on attack how about you come back when you experience that? Unless your subbing MNK and boosting 12 times inbetween every attack I can guarantee your not experiencing it.


    Edited, Wed Mar 8 16:30:07 2006 by Cailee
    ____________________________
    Quote:
    MNK-ChuckirothNorCloud

    Server: Phoenix
    Bonecraft Artisan
    #119 Mar 08 2006 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    The Meat vs. Sushi has already been done in this forum several times. Since my discussion is primarily about the Great Axe since that is what Warrior/Dragoon specializes in, and I do not advocate the use of Sushi with the Great Axe, I would not like to have it brought up again.

    Given, I know it's a free speech open public forum still, but please, just start your own topic, or take it somewhere else.

    Comments, Questions, Opinions about the Guide and Job/Subjob combination, and any information that I am including would be greatly appreciated
    #120 Mar 12 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
    *
    139 posts
    Quote:
    1.Create the following Macro:
    /target <bt>
    /ja "Jump" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /ja "Provoke" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /attack <bt>


    Why do you have /wait 2 in there? Wouldn't /wait 1 work instead? I would recomment that you do not use the <bt> macro, whenever I do that there have been too many times where I attack the mob that the mage chooses to sleep. /ja "Provoke" <bt> though works nicely when the thf is bringing the mob back to the party if we are camped in a winding tunnel. I typically prefer to use the f8 key to target the mobs as they come in.

    I would also recommend that once you hit level 70+, you use High Jump as your opening move since high jump will shed what, 30%-50% or so of your current hate.

    I am also curious about the usage of crossbows to try and increase your tp gain. I was in a lvl 56 or so party as dragoon, with two warriors and a thief. All 3 of them were using acid bolts/holy bolts on the crabs, insane activation rate, and insane tp gain. They had... I'd say about at least a 50% accuracy rate with the crossbows, I'd say more about 65%, lots of misses yeah, but more hits than misses. While I understand that bolts are expensive, I'm a little surprised that more warriors don't use them for their potential tp gain.
    #121 Mar 13 2006 at 5:54 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    The animation for Jump takes about 2 seconds, so the /wait 1 has many times been ignored, and thus provoke has not fired.

    <bt> is effective as long as you don't have to worry about sleeping mobs. When you do, just ask the mages not to sleep until you have one. Problem solved.

    70+ tanking, yes, open with High Jump, but as said, it was a mini-guide, and the person asking isn't 70+ yet.

    As for crossbows: The delay of the crossbow can actually slow you down if timed wrong(which is more often than not). For a Thf and War/Nin it's not such a big issue, since they can usually get it to fire inbetween swings of the main and offhand weapon, but for a 2-hand user, like a War/Drg, it just slows down your TP gain unnecessarily.
    #122 Mar 17 2006 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Self bumping and edited slightly, included the Mini-tanking guide in the main.
    #123 Mar 20 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
    *
    53 posts
    I think you have done a good job here Blz.

    I have only read through the 1st page but I think I'll put my comments through. If they had been mentioned in this thread, I apologise.

    1) I think the benefit of the Jump abilities has not been properly stressed. And you gave the impression to only use jump after a WS. Whereas I tend to regard Jump as a different form of Haste. Of course, if you can foresee firing a WS in a couple of seconds, you can save the jump til after for the TP boost, otherwise Jump should be used whenever it's ready to maximise the haste effect.

    Jump is one extra attack round every 90 seconds, with all the normal probabilities of criticals and double attacks. Unlike SA, this attack round does not need to wait until the next swing, nor does it reset the delay for the next swing. That is, this extra attack round exists outside of the weapon's normal delay machanism (Bear in mind, I havn't counted the 1-2 seconds required for performing the JA, but it's not that significant when you're dealing with slow weapons).

    Therefore, the effective-haste in swinging that Great Axe by subbing /Drg is not just that 5% from the earring, you should also take the extra attack every 90 seconds into account (and emphasise on it). The slower the GAxe, the more % haste you get out of the Jump abilities.

    I'm kinda retired from this game now and cannot be bothered to find out about it, but I think I had previously exp-ed with War/Drg for lv30-38 and calculated the haste % gained from Jumping every 90 seconds to be in the teens.

    This is the real benefit I see out of subbing /Drg. In other words, the /Drg subjob excels in making the heaviest, Two-handed weapons in the game faster.

    2) Another thing you may want to add is to calculate the WeaponDamage-per-second of the popular GAxes, giving 3 sets of figures... eg:

     
    Axe Name  |  w/out Haste  |  5% Haste  |  5% Haste & Jump every 90sec 
    Axe A     |    0.35       |    0.4     |      0.55 
    Axe B ...so on 
    ****imaginary figures**** 
    


    This would hopefully highlight the effectiveness of using Jump with slow weapons and will help your readers on choosing a GAxe.

    Lastly, hope you every success in getting to end game. But at least I'm sure you had already enjoyed the game - every level in the process, unlike others who only enjoys the power once they get their character to lv75.


    Edited, Mon Mar 20 13:08:07 2006 by MegaTrainPullerClio
    ____________________________
    Clio, Hume, Shiva,
    39Thf, 38WAR, 36WHM, 33PLD, 30MNK, 20DRG, 17BLM, 12BRD
    Alchemy 57, Woodworking 45, Goldsmithing 30, Smithing 24, Cooking 11, Bonecraft 7
    #124 Mar 20 2006 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    I say to save Jump for WS so that the haste is used to the best effect. This way, it is used to make it to 100TP faster since it throws in an extra delay free attack. I believe I said something to that, just not in the direct guide.

    I don't like to put up the DPS per weapon, because honestly I don't see the variety of great axes being that great at any level range to require it.
    #125 Mar 23 2006 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
    **
    774 posts
    Ok so now I have dinged WAR30 and after hearing that SE will be making more usbjobs viable for WAR, I have decided to give this combo a try. I did Carpace Combatants twice trying to get Wyvern Earring and got owned bad. I followed all the guides and we just didn't have the luck. Im forced to BCNM this item as there are none for sale in any city and the last ones were sold in January. I have done the whole Sturmwind > Jump and its really fun. I want the earring, shield, and mantle just so I can have it all.

    Now to my point. IMO GA for parties, axe for Ballista. Why? well I don't need to tell you, you know why. Anyway lol, I can't wait to have haste +6% and be able to jump around and spam axe ws's. Just my 2 cents. I'm not really posting for any other reason than i like the idea of this job to break out of the box. I don't know, never having been to higher levels, but I wouldn't think this to be such a bad job. Jump + High Jump = more tp = more Steel Cyclone = more DOT right? Even later when Rampage is unlocked +6% haste (using shield) seems like it might be nice to use with an already fairly fast weapon.

    Now what about some of those swords with +6% haste? It seems to me you would generate way too much hate using two swords at the same time that do 2-3 attacks. Why not one with extra speed? Iono like I said never been that far, just a question. Oh and Tungi at 60 ^^.......that would be so fun for 60 cap Ballista!!!

    Edited, Thu Mar 23 02:42:58 2006 by Madvillany
    ____________________________
    Least I have chicken!
    #126 Mar 28 2006 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    War/Drg specializes in the Great Axe. While you can use the 1 Handed Axe, and the Haste from Earring + Shield is okay, it's still nothing great. When it come's to 1 handed Axe, Pre-Mistral Axe, War/Nin, Mistral Axe+, /Thf has been my favorite.

    In ballista as War/Drg, Great Axe still wins. You can take on a fellow war, regardless of his sub, to about the same degree of success as you can take on a Drk. Sam's, it's a race for WS's. So far, I've been dead split vs. Sam's(3/6), Drk's are pretty easy(8/10), Mnk's are a pain if Chakra is ready(3/9), and Thf/Nin's are the worst(0/6)!
    #127 Mar 31 2006 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    474 posts
    Something I'd like to add to the discussion (dunno if you want to include it in the guide) is the higher skill cap for Gaxe vs. Axe. That's often overlooked when comparing WAR/NIN with dual axe to WAR/XXX with Gaxe. At level 66 it's a 5 skill difference, and at 75 it's a 7 skill difference. That will increase your accuracy somewhat with Gaxe over Axe (I'll resist the temptation to get back into the meat vs. sushi discussion).
    ____________________________
    :)
    #128 Mar 31 2006 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    I was offering this to the more advanced wars, as it requires having an unlockable job leveled to sub. As that is, I was under the blind hope that people would inherently recognize that Great Axe caps higher than Axe, offering from your numbers at 66 5 more Attack and Accuracy(assuming the just rounding to the 1:1 instead of the 1:0.9 or whatever it was, I forget offhand) than an Axe. That's a free snipers(or at least jaeger's ring) right there just by using a Gaxxx.
    #129 Apr 08 2006 at 3:04 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    #130 Apr 14 2006 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    #131 Apr 15 2006 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default
    **
    351 posts
    Have you tried solo-tanking w/o Defender and instead eating a Fish Chiefkabob or Tav Taco? But then again, I suppose there's no real difference...

    Only difference I could see is:

    1) With meat kabob you get +5 STR.
    2) With fish kabob you can pop Defender in case of an emergency and you don't have to think about popping Defender every 3 minutes to keep up your defense.

    Guess it's all a matter of preference.

    Personally, as WAR/MNK with G Axe + taco, I solo-tanked IT+ Crabs in Bohyada and never had a problem with hate. We had no BRD, but sometimes I had to Warcry+Voke to pull the crab off of the Ancient Magic MB'ing BLM. But maybe I would have done better with the +5 STR from the meat kabob? I'll consider it next time I need to solo tank. Interesting guide. If leveling MNK, NIN and THF to 37 weren't such a pain in the **** themselves, I'd consider leveling DRG 1-37 to experiment.
    ____________________________
    " " - HUME - Rank 10 - Kingdom of Sandoria
    LVL 70 WAR, LVL 42 WHM, LVL 37 NIN, LVL 37 MNK, LVL 37 THF, LVL 21 BLM, LVL 20 RNG, LVL 20 BLU, LVL 14 COR
    Seraph Server - LS:
    My Profile: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?64108
    #132 Apr 16 2006 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    You think that's a pain? Try deleveling Nin back to 20 so you have it for 40-caps if needed but wont be asked to use it higher up.

    Drg does level pretty quickly though, at least did for me.
    #133 Apr 17 2006 at 4:37 AM Rating: Default
    **
    351 posts
    Coincidentally, actually had a chance to Solo tank today. Our party in Cape Terrigan was 59-60 NIN/WAR, WAR/NIN, WAR/THF (me), BLM/WHM, WHM/BLM, BRD/WHM. Our NIN dc'ed and since I had brought my tanking gear and brand spanking new Fighter's Lorica, I volunteered to solo tank.

    Before tanking I was geared thusly; Forseti's G Axe w/ Meat Chiefkabob, R.K. Chainmail, R.K. Breeches, Spike Earrings, Venerer Ring, Sun Ring, Lifebelt and R.G. Collar. I switched out to Wise Wiz. Anelace, Darksteel Buckler, Fighter's Lorica, Fighter's Cuisses, 2X Chrysoberyl rings, Warrior's Belt +1, and Med. Collar. I had 2 Dodge Earrings, but I stopped wearing them midway. This gave me a whopping +18 VIT.

    We ended up fighting for 20 minutes or so before the NIN came back. WAR/THF was hardly optimal for solo-tanking, but the enmity on the Fighter's Lorica was tremendous. I was able to Voke off of 500+ Rampages by the Hauby wearin WAR/NIN. Damage taken was ok and almost half of what the WAR/NIN would have taken. I even tanked a IT+ Pugil that the BRD got aggroed by. I used Defender at first, and then looked at the horrible damage output. Granted, I was using my Wise Wizard's Anelace + Shield... but I didn't think I could justify the use of my Forseti's G Axe when I switched out my ACC equipment for full tank gear. As I was tanking, I was thinking about this thread. I contemplated using DD gear + Defender and eating the extra damage and placing the burden on my teammates to keep me alive. Would my first gear setup have done well?

    Otherwise, I really enjoy the +8 Enmity from the Fighter's Lorica and even with my piddly 1-Handed Sword's dmg, I was keeping hate like nobody's business. I didn't even have to Warcry. Have you tried this, Blz? Or are you more interested in controlling hate via pure damage?
    ____________________________
    " " - HUME - Rank 10 - Kingdom of Sandoria
    LVL 70 WAR, LVL 42 WHM, LVL 37 NIN, LVL 37 MNK, LVL 37 THF, LVL 21 BLM, LVL 20 RNG, LVL 20 BLU, LVL 14 COR
    Seraph Server - LS:
    My Profile: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?64108
    #134 Apr 17 2006 at 2:50 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Well, this is a bit off the topic of War/Drg, but I find hate keeping is really best with Damage. With your one handed sword and your lorica, the extra enmity per hit would help quite a bit, but heavy damage would've been even better.

    Also, check the list of the immunity/doube effect chart, and you can Tank very easily with a Great Axe. Weapon Break will cut the damage you take down to a minimum, Shield Break obviously helps take it out sooner, Armor break for the same.

    Now if the War/Nin had decided to equip their Lorica also, you wouldn't have been tanking period. This is pretty much a case where your AF won out the day.

    Now if you REALLY want to plaster hate as a solo tanker and are static with that Brd:

    Pop Defender. Use Attack Food. Get Dual Minuets. Your Accuracy Gear(Aggressor up whenever possible) should keep hate off of everything but a BLM bursting AM or stronger. And if that happens, and voke isn't ready, Warcry will plaster it back to you easily. This is for tanking with a Great Axe with any sub and a bard.

    #135 Apr 17 2006 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    556 posts
    well, there are few things i want to say about this post
    1. i miss the wyvern earring when it was 30k, and jumped to 1M, now 750k+, **** it lol.
    2. ive tried this combo, this is more fun than /thf

    btw i have some few questions, i tried to read some of the post, i did skip some like in food etc, but could not find the answers lol, cant wait also lol.

    what does jump and high jump do? what are they? what is the dmg modificator for it? is there any effect from it? when the best to use it?

    my dmg with those 2, i tried both of them are about 200, but i saw like 10 and 320 or close to it couple times, if i didnt take mistake lol, i tried with Berseker axe and in Lufaise Meadows. my Jumps did more dmg with str gear more likely, Da could be can be stacked with jumps

    Quote:
    Jump Abilities:

    Jump - Level 10
    Does damage. No hate shedding ability. This isn't good for much but doing damage and helping you grab hate if you need it for some reason.

    High Jump - Level 35
    Does less damage than Jump, but sheds ~50% of your hate. Moderately useful if you need to dump hate.



    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=14&mid=1103162647789039044&num=7

    are they same when we sub /drg?
    thank you

    Edited, Mon Apr 17 21:45:08 2006 by ninozz
    ____________________________
    Catwoman
    main job: thief and warrior
    leviathan server
    Melbourne, Australia
    any 1 from OZ?
    #136 Apr 17 2006 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    What the Jumps Do?

    Both Jumps are:
    Deal Direct Damage
    Are Delay Free(They do not take up an attack round)
    Capable of Double Attacking
    Are an enhanced melee hit(more likely to critical, accuracy same as your melee accuracy)

    Jump(Lv. 10):
    Has a high Critical Damage rating(hits Crit hits more often than not)

    My highest jump to date as /drg: 750 vs. Steelshell

    High Jump(Lv. 35):
    Has a lower base damage typically
    Has a lower Critical Damage rating(Crit hits less often)
    When it does not Double Attack, DOES shed 50% hate /drg. Advised for use in a WS Macro such as:

    /ws "Raging Rush" <t>
    /wait 3
    /ja "Jump" <bt>
    /wait 2
    /ja "High Jump" <bt>

    Effect of above macro:
    Upgrades Raging Rush into a 5-hit WS without DA attacks and sheds 50% hate after performing it.

    Highest Potential of above Macro:
    10-hit if DA fires on all swings of Raging Rush and both Jumps


    Also, it really is important to note: There are no Bonus Modifiers to enhance Jump damage unless it is Accuracy. This ties in with a theory I had for a long time(and has proven to work on many levels) that Drg damage is calculated with an Acc modifier.

    Proof of the Theory: Stacking acc regularly increasing my normal melee hits 10-15 points(tested a long long time ago, while testing Penta Thrust and Skewer with Sushi vs. Meat).
    #137 Apr 18 2006 at 1:18 AM Rating: Default
    **
    351 posts
    I didn't think about Weapon Break. I guess I was getting seduced by the low damage numbers the +VIT was providing to me. All in all, the Shield was not activating much at all. Maybe 2 times a fight. Although now with the new fix, maybe Shield will be the way to go.
    ____________________________
    " " - HUME - Rank 10 - Kingdom of Sandoria
    LVL 70 WAR, LVL 42 WHM, LVL 37 NIN, LVL 37 MNK, LVL 37 THF, LVL 21 BLM, LVL 20 RNG, LVL 20 BLU, LVL 14 COR
    Seraph Server - LS:
    My Profile: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?64108
    #138 Apr 18 2006 at 3:21 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Shield Mastery=Paladin and they gain TP. Warrior still doesn't. Great Axe still seems to be the way.
    #139 Apr 18 2006 at 6:06 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    556 posts
    Quote:
    There are no Bonus Modifiers to enhance Jump damage unless it is Accuracy.

    soo while using jumps use acc gear?
    do you use jumps after WS?, well more i use the jumps just to get fast xp, coz i have to use Darkness (steel cyclone) and need to get hate to be able to provoke for thief member.
    5 hits RR ? u mean just another dmg beside the WS?
    how much TP do i get from each jump? i heard one of them could steal TP (high jump), this is from drg, not /drg (sub drg). i dont know about that. btw jumps in drg and /drg will give same effect?
    you said with acc will increase ur normaly hits, it does not make sense for me, how come? or this is only for drg?
    ____________________________
    Catwoman
    main job: thief and warrior
    leviathan server
    Melbourne, Australia
    any 1 from OZ?
    #140 Apr 18 2006 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    1) If you read the guide, you'll notice I'm a champion of Acc gear anyway. Thick set FTW!

    2) Using Jumps post-WS or 0-16%TP does help it build faster for spamming.

    3) 5 hit RR = The WS + Jump + High Jump, but this method sheds hate. Don't use it to gain hate.

    4) Jump TP Gain(without items like barone/conte) is same as your regular Melee TP gain. With Barone/Conte that adds Jump TP+ it is 2 points more(16 per jump instead of 14 per with the barone)

    5) High Jump CAN Steal TP From the Mob. However, this is not part of the regular job trait. This is when it is used in Conjunction with Spirit Surge.

    Spirit Surge does the following:
    Jump(10): Lowers the Mob Defense
    High Jump(35): Lowers the Mob TP
    Super Jump(50): Lowers the Hate of the Person Directly behind the Drg

    Since it uses a 2 hour to do this, War/Drg can NOT remove Mob TP via High Jump.

    6) Yes, the Jumps will give the same effect. Jump will do damage, High Jump will shed hate, approximately 50% while subbed.


    7) The Acc increasing melee damage was something I noted specifically about Drg, and has not yet applied to any other job.
    #141 Apr 27 2006 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    Re-bump.

    Also, soon to add(soon as I can afford the body piece Lv. 59)

    Increased Crit vs Acc +10 as War/Drg
    #142 Apr 30 2006 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
    *
    153 posts
    Wow, I'd never even consisdered WAR/DRG before. Rate up for an excellent job. That must've taken forever.
    #143 May 01 2006 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    it continues to take forever. thanks for the rate up, reat me up some more:)
    #144 May 01 2006 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    286 posts
    Well, I guess I can be one of the few to post his experience with a war/drg in a meri-deco-po.

    Partied a couple weeks back with a galka war75/drg, who had very good gear. He was parsed as the 3rd best out of 4 wars, the other 3 (including myself) subbing nin.

    there were two axe/axe combos and an axe/joy combo(me), each very decently equipped. All wars were merited, but I dont know to what degree (maxed merits or near max, etc)

    Now, back to the war/drg.

    He used rune chopper, and had good attack/acc gear for TP (Ada-celata, haub, af2 gloves,barone legs, etc) and switched to heca hat, gloves, feet, and body for WS (Raging Rush) which was averaging 800-1200 (1700 with MS, but that doesnt count! :D). Jump and High jump kept him very close with me on tp. He had that wyv earring as well, merited MP for the haste effect, and did extremely well. Hate wasnt too much of a problem, as the other wars could voke when it did turn to him after his beastly WSes.

    In conclusion, I think its very good sub, even for meriting, due to the raw haste you can have. Although you need a lot of good gear to make it really really good. I'm interested to see your experiences 70+ as well. Keep up on the good work, Blz!
    ____________________________
    Mack- 75WAR, 75NIN, 75SAM, 75 BLM, 75 RNG, 75 DRK, 75 MNK
    Smithing: 99.0
    Smithing Goal:100
    CursedHauberk -1:O Button
    -Ramuh-
    The New Sig. ( Last Updated 5/23/07)
    "Hey baby if you do me, then I'll do you...
    a favor and walk you outside.. All right."
    - Lloyd Banks
    #145 May 03 2006 at 10:21 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    556 posts
    800+ RR? how
    what weapon do you use?
    ____________________________
    Catwoman
    main job: thief and warrior
    leviathan server
    Melbourne, Australia
    any 1 from OZ?
    #146 May 03 2006 at 4:09 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    474 posts
    ninozz wrote:
    800+ RR? how
    what weapon do you use?
    I'm assuming it was because of all the heca gear he was swapping in.

    LilMack wrote:
    Partied a couple weeks back with a galka war75/drg, who had very good gear. He was parsed as the 3rd best out of 4 wars, the other 3 (including myself) subbing nin.
    How close did he parse to the top 2?

    LilMack wrote:
    He used rune chopper
    Did he have enough MP to make rune chopper work? How did he go about refreshing his MP?
    ____________________________
    :)
    #147 May 05 2006 at 3:16 AM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    MP Merit vs Gax Merit...I'd rather stick with my Berserker's Axe and ***** the extra haste from the Rune Chopper.
    #148 May 05 2006 at 4:25 AM Rating: Good
    Occasionally posts 2 to 3 times
    *****
    11,846 posts
    Quote:
    MP Merit vs Gax Merit...I'd rather stick with my Berserker's Axe and ***** the extra haste from the Rune Chopper.



    Thats a very not smart way of looking at it. Especially when Walahra turban gives you 30 MP to go with that haste.
    ____________________________
    Luminaire wrote:

    Luminaire's Law states that if you played only SMN or BLM to 75, you suck. No exceptions.

    the only good mages are people who played melee first/also. just a mage = ****** player. always. the only good mages that didn't play melee are using bots to cure. true story.


    GrumpyWookie wrote:
    If god was a woman every full moon there would be floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes. The week after that there would be chocolate.
    #149 May 05 2006 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
    Scholar
    **
    286 posts
    Quote:
    How close did he parse to the top 2?


    From what I remember it was something like ~4-5% off of the top DDer for total damage. We were all tight nit, except for the last WAR (he tried meat half-way thru, which screwed his averages a bit)

    The RDM worked him into Refresh cycle whenever he could, as nobody was taking much damage and we had haste+march up.

    800+ Raging Rushes isn't really uncommon. The Heca gear was just icing on the cake, getting those really high numbers.

    Quote:
    MP merit vs. Gaxe Merit...

    Also... you can merit MP independently from Gaxe, so this argument is pointless. :P

    Edited, Fri May 5 18:30:28 2006 by LilMack
    ____________________________
    Mack- 75WAR, 75NIN, 75SAM, 75 BLM, 75 RNG, 75 DRK, 75 MNK
    Smithing: 99.0
    Smithing Goal:100
    CursedHauberk -1:O Button
    -Ramuh-
    The New Sig. ( Last Updated 5/23/07)
    "Hey baby if you do me, then I'll do you...
    a favor and walk you outside.. All right."
    - Lloyd Banks
    #150 May 05 2006 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
    Scholar
    **
    778 posts
    My point isn't about them being related, but rather about the point usage for the merits if the Gax merit wasn't capped out yet.

    The problem with it is the Damage per hit difference really. If he has a Berserker's Axe, ask him to use it and try again and see how he parses with just the Wyvern Earring, and using an appropriate meat. I'll test it myself also once I start running merits, just haven't been interested to get involved with all that yet.
    #151 May 05 2006 at 11:54 PM Rating: Good
    ***
    3,811 posts
    Quote:
    My point isn't about them being related, but rather about the point usage for the merits if the Gax merit wasn't capped out yet.

    The problem with it is the Damage per hit difference really. If he has a Berserker's Axe, ask him to use it and try again and see how he parses with just the Wyvern Earring, and using an appropriate meat. I'll test it myself also once I start running merits, just haven't been interested to get involved with all that yet.


    I have just a couple cents to toss in here. First off, when it comes to merit parties "Damage per hit" really doesn't matter much. The fights are so short it's all about getting to 100tp and getting your WS off.

    Secondly, "point usage," it only takes one merit placed into mp to give you 10mp. Which as long as you have refresh is more than enough for the latent on the Rune Chopper. Also, not everyone wishes to cap Gaxe merits because of other priorities. As much as I like the Berserker's Axe, when it comes to merit parties you'll be left behind both by Axe/Axe, Axe/Sword, Rid/Joy. As well as an other properly equiped War/drg with a Rune Chopper getting Refresh.

    I’m a little hesitant to add the two double attacking Great Axe's because I haven't tried them myself. I'm however confident they would still easily out parse the Berserkers in a merit party as long as their latents were active.

    That's it for my Smiley: twocents


    Edited, Sat May 6 01:01:08 2006 by Kyoshindi
    ____________________________

    Quote:
    The Path to **** is paved with good intentions.
    Reply To Thread

    Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

     

    Recent Visitors: 13 All times are in CST
    Anonymous Guests (13)