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Magian staves: MAB vs AffinityFollow

#1 Jan 21 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
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How does the MAB+12 and INT +9 of Shareeravadi +2 compare to the various element Affinity: Magic Damage +5 staves? If it is close, the inventory +6 on the Shareeravadi is rather enticing.
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#2 Jan 21 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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It doesn't.
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#3 Jan 21 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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It will give about the damage of an NQ staff, probably lower, and less than 1/4 of the magic accuracy. If Magian Damage+5 staves are a chainsaw, Shareeravadi is a butter knife.
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#4 Jan 21 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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NotJim wrote:
It will give about the damage of an NQ staff, probably lower,
Much lower,
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#5 Jan 21 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Well that sucks. I wonder why they even offer it as a trial.
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#6 Jan 21 2011 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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It doesn't even beat this one which also sucked.

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#7 Jan 22 2011 at 3:47 AM Rating: Decent
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i have a question somewhat similar to this. how much MAB would it require to beat the affinity on the HQ staves? im looking at this primarily from the perspective of a blue mage. some of the blu nukes are getting really good so i am doing some INT+ swords. each sword at the end has 9int/10MAB. im guessing that 1 sword isnt enough to beat a HQ staff, but if you dual wield its 18int/20MAB. im not sure how nukes are calculated, but it seems like staff bonus> day/weather> magic burst> magic burst bonus> MAB. if thats right, then wouldnt have an equal amount of MAB as staff bonus give the same results? so in order to beat the 15% from staff, you would need 15MAB?

so, HQ staff=15MAB in terms of damage barring resist rate?

does 18int/20MAB beat HQ staff?
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#8 Jan 22 2011 at 4:02 AM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
i have a question somewhat similar to this. how much MAB would it require to beat the affinity on the HQ staves?
50-100 or so, depending on how much mab you already have. Standard blm nuke set has around 150 mab, so 75 mab would tie +2 dmg staves (3.25/2.5=1.3). Better blms have even more mab, so they'd need more, etc. Blue would need less.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2011 5:04am by ThePsychoticOne
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#9 Jan 22 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
50-100 or so, depending on how much mab you already have. Standard blm nuke set has around 150 mab, so 75 mab would tie +2 dmg staves (3.25/2.5=1.3). Better blms have even more mab, so they'd need more, etc. Blue would need less.


/sigh, this is why i shouldnt post at 2am drunk. of course it has a larger effect since its multiplied and not added. -.-

im assuming your MAB is based inside of abyssea, im confused on how a 15% increase in damage translates to 50% of your current MAB.
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#10 Jan 22 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
im assuming your MAB is based inside of abyssea, im confused on how a 15% increase in damage translates to 50% of your current MAB.
Err, what?
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#11 Jan 22 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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how do you have so much MAB? how does half of your MAB=HQ staff's 15% increase?
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#12 Jan 22 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
how do you have so much MAB? how does half of your MAB=HQ staff's 15% increase?
150 isn't a lot, it's pretty standard with atmas. Mab has quickly decreasing returns.
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#13 Jan 22 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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atma of the lion has thunder att+40. is that 40MAB or 40%?
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#14 Jan 22 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
atma of the lion has thunder att+40. is that 40MAB or 40%?
Direct 40%.
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#15 Jan 22 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Leatherworker ThePsychoticO wrote:
figster wrote:
i have a question somewhat similar to this. how much MAB would it require to beat the affinity on the HQ staves?
50-100 or so, depending on how much mab you already have. Standard blm nuke set has around 150 mab, so 75 mab would tie +2 dmg staves (3.25/2.5=1.3). Better blms have even more mab, so they'd need more, etc. Blue would need less.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2011 5:04am by ThePsychoticOne



You actually need a lot less mab than what you had up there for mab to beat out the hq staves. Atleast the one hes implying(15% HQ staff). Yours calculated for the current HQ staves.

@Figster, youll want roughly 38mab with the standard set Rog put for blm. As he mentioned, blue mage would require less than that amount.

And to help you understand why staff damage does so much more than MAB, its because it works on a seperate step on the damage calculation.

1000(base damage) x 1.15(staff) x 1.50(50mab) = 1725
adding them together would be:
1000 x 1.65 = 1650 (as I think youve come to understand)
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#16 Jan 22 2011 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Wiki is wrong its actually 30 thunder attack. I don't have the text file with spell damage on this computer but I actually just checked it last night and I got x1.29889 increase.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2011 5:57pm by NotJim
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#17 Jan 22 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
1000(base damage) x 1.15(staff) x 1.50(50mab) = 1725


this is what i thought it was. i was getting confused on how he was getting 75MAB is equal to hq staff. i was running some numbers and the 20MAB is almost the same as staff for blu. i think with atma, gear, traits, tonic im at 143MAB. and then with the next update most likely adding new trials, the swords definitely seem to be the way to go. i kind of wish blu could use those trial staves for some seriously awesome nukes. thanks for the info
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#18 Jan 22 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
Quote:
1000(base damage) x 1.15(staff) x 1.50(50mab) = 1725


this is what i thought it was. i was getting confused on how he was getting 75MAB is equal to hq staff. i was running some numbers and the 20MAB is almost the same as staff for blu. i think with atma, gear, traits, tonic im at 143MAB.
Uh, no. With 143 mab, you'd need more than 36 mab to beat hq ele staves.
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#19 Jan 24 2011 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
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figster wrote:
Quote:
1000(base damage) x 1.15(staff) x 1.50(50mab) = 1725


this is what i thought it was. i was getting confused on how he was getting 75MAB is equal to hq staff. i was running some numbers and the 20MAB is almost the same as staff for blu. i think with atma, gear, traits, tonic im at 143MAB. and then with the next update most likely adding new trials, the swords definitely seem to be the way to go. i kind of wish blu could use those trial staves for some seriously awesome nukes. thanks for the info


Ya as rog said, its going to be more than 36mab with your current mab to beat HQ staves(15%). Not sure were you are getting 20mab.

Im not sure how bluemage spell damage is calculated but ill show you why 20mab is not the same as HQ staff in terms of how its calculated as a blm. Assuming youll have MM on for blue? you should have roughly 182 int with buffs. Ill use ol pudding int of 89 as a target(doesnt really affect the outcome much) and use thunder IV.

[182 - 89] *2 +541 * 1.15 *2.43 = 2031

Now remove the staff bonus, and adding 20mab

[182 - 89] *2 + 541 * 2.63 = 1912

So 20mab at that amount is less than HQ staff(15%), now add that rog said it was higher than 36, so well add 37mab

[182 - 89] *2 + 541 * 2.80 = 2035 checks out.

Hope that helps. Again I have no clue how blue mage factors in damage, but 2.8/2.43 = 15.2% which is higher than HQ staff so it shouldnt matter.
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#20 Jan 24 2011 at 3:27 AM Rating: Good
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hitoseijuro wrote:
figster wrote:
Quote:
1000(base damage) x 1.15(staff) x 1.50(50mab) = 1725


this is what i thought it was. i was getting confused on how he was getting 75MAB is equal to hq staff. i was running some numbers and the 20MAB is almost the same as staff for blu. i think with atma, gear, traits, tonic im at 143MAB. and then with the next update most likely adding new trials, the swords definitely seem to be the way to go. i kind of wish blu could use those trial staves for some seriously awesome nukes. thanks for the info


Ya as rog said, its going to be more than 36mab with your current mab to beat HQ staves(15%). Not sure were you are getting 20mab.

Im not sure how bluemage spell damage is calculated but ill show you why 20mab is not the same as HQ staff in terms of how its calculated as a blm. Assuming youll have MM on for blue? you should have roughly 182 int with buffs. Ill use ol pudding int of 89 as a target(doesnt really affect the outcome much) and use thunder IV.

[182 - 89] *2 +541 * 1.15 *2.43 = 2031

Now remove the staff bonus, and adding 20mab

[182 - 89] *2 + 541 * 2.63 = 1912

So 20mab at that amount is less than HQ staff(15%), now add that rog said it was higher than 36, so well add 37mab

[182 - 89] *2 + 541 * 2.80 = 2035 checks out.

Hope that helps. Again I have no clue how blue mage factors in damage, but 2.8/2.43 = 15.2% which is higher than HQ staff so it shouldnt matter.


So, this comparison would be dependent on what the multiplier for the spell is, right? Not sure how that's tested, and I can't find the values listed for newer blu spells.
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#21 Jan 26 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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NotJim wrote:
Wiki is wrong its actually 30 thunder attack. I don't have the text file with spell damage on this computer but I actually just checked it last night and I got x1.29889 increase.

Edited, Jan 22nd 2011 5:57pm by NotJim

Were you using a magian staff? It seems that bonuses from elemental atmas and magian staves are added, rather than multiplied. To complicate things, the old elemental staff bonus is still a separate multiplier. I haven't yet tested this personally (I intend to do so soon), so take it for what it's worth: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/91236-Fapworthy-WS-SC-or-MB-damage-IV-We-can-t-read-your-black-text-or-Comic-Sans?p=4377433&viewfull=1#post4377433
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#22 Feb 08 2011 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
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I actually am the one who posted just before the one you linked, the values I got are posted there but I'll copy them here.

Lion / no staff - 1056
Lion + Indra+2 - 1305

no atma/ no staff - 813
Indra+2 - 1061

1056/813 = 1.299

I used no staff and also a magian staff, I was testing out if they were added together because as I said I had suspected they must have been after getting such low damage from double atma/magian.
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#23 Feb 08 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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NotJim wrote:
I actually am the one who posted just before the one you linked, the values I got are posted there but I'll copy them here.

Lion / no staff - 1056
Lion + Indra+2 - 1305

no atma/ no staff - 813
Indra+2 - 1061

1056/813 = 1.299

I used no staff and also a magian staff, I was testing out if they were added together because as I said I had suspected they must have been after getting such low damage from double atma/magian.

Those numbers do make it look like Lion gives ~ +30%. It also looks like Indra+2 is slightly more than +30%. I haven't done any significant testing with my +2 staves yet, but it looks like I should.
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#24 Feb 08 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Its very possible that the indra nuke had my bugard leather strap equipped which could account for the minor difference.
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#25 Feb 25 2011 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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figster wrote:
i have a question somewhat similar to this. how much MAB would it require to beat the affinity on the HQ staves? im looking at this primarily from the perspective of a blue mage. some of the blu nukes are getting really good so i am doing some INT+ swords. each sword at the end has 9int/10MAB. im guessing that 1 sword isnt enough to beat a HQ staff, but if you dual wield its 18int/20MAB. im not sure how nukes are calculated, but it seems like staff bonus> day/weather> magic burst> magic burst bonus> MAB. if thats right, then wouldnt have an equal amount of MAB as staff bonus give the same results? so in order to beat the 15% from staff, you would need 15MAB?

so, HQ staff=15MAB in terms of damage barring resist rate?

does 18int/20MAB beat HQ staff?


BLU spells are not the same as BLM nukes, i herd reports that duel weilding those swords is better then staffs for blu. ( magic based ones anyway)

magic acc has no baring in abyssea with ultimate.

I do not know the math for atmas but outsite it at 75 with the gear at the time it took 30-33 MAB to outdo staffs and the exact amount was dependent on Dint and current MAB gear.

BLU spells are usually based on more then one stat, don't quote what to do on BLU based on gear/ damage formulas for BLM, they are different.

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 1:59am by RambustheRDMtaru
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#26 Mar 02 2011 at 12:26 AM Rating: Default
lolRambus.
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