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Serious question for career BLM'sFollow

#52 May 15 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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icebabyisme wrote:
A friend as SCH and I as BLM were doing limbus King zone for the LS, what can I say, with his potency JA and spell up, he nukes slightly more than I with the same tier IV spell. Mind you, I even got slightly better gears than he does (such as 2 snow rings for me, 2 diamond rings for him). From what he told me, Ebullience and weather give him 30% MAB potency (and Ebullience is 20% potency of total MAB, including 10$ weather, so the number is big). When resistance is not an issue, BLM can't beat that big number of MAB with gears and Job Traits.


I can't touch my BLM nukes on SCH. Using Ebullience (+20% damage) is stupid anyway unless Tabula Rasa is up since Parsimony (-50% MP cost) is so much better.

Fynlar wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the most you could do with relic WSs was a double Light or Darkness? (Meaning after that you'd need to open the chain from scratch again with a WS that closes no chain)


Kaiten>Kasha>Light>Kaiten>Light2 repeat

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgcGV-rhUSg


---

I think BLM is fine. It's a useful job in plenty of situations. But don't limit yourself and have only 1 job at 75; no job can do everything. Yea it could use a boost, but it's hardly garbage. Elemental staves are insane, and going beyond that is something SE doesn't seem to want to do.

Don't forget DD need good support to do well, give BLM some proper support too.
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#53 May 15 2009 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
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SAMs with Amanomurakumo can save 200% TP (obtainable in 12 hits), use Sekkanoki, and immediately pop off Tachi: Kaiten to Tachi: Kaiten and solo their own Light skillchain. If they Meikyo Shisui after that, they can turn around and knock out three (3!!!) more Light skillchains back-to-back-to-back, which can result in the effective damage of 9 WSs in an extremely short timeframe. And in the world of relics, 1200 damage is hardly legendary. Hagun SAMs with good builds are capable of reaching those numbers already.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the most you could do with relic WSs was a double Light or Darkness? (Meaning after that you'd need to open the chain from scratch again with a WS that closes no chain)


FFXIclopedia wrote:
Tachi: Kaiten is a high level, Light-based weapon skill with Fragmentation properties. It can only skillchain with high level weapon skills only obtainable beyond level 67. It can open and close Light skillchains, open for Distortion skillchains, and close for Fragmentation skillchains. If used immediately after a Light skillchain, it can create another Light skillchain. When used with Meikyo Shisui, it can be used for multiple Light skillchains back to back.


This is where I got my information regarding Tachi: Kaiten.

Honestly, I might have spoken out of turn regarding to linking WSs to create multiple Light skillchains. I haven't seen it done, nor am I aware if SE has any measures that block such occurrences. I do know that SAMs can link six or seven WSs together to create a bunch of skillchains ending in Darkness (Example), so I presumed that a SAM could do the same thing with successive Tachi: Kaiten to create a bunch of Light skillchains.

If I presumed incorrectly, then I apologize.


Edit: I stand corrected. Thank you, Ellatrix.

Edited, May 15th 2009 3:57pm by Kaetara
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#54 May 15 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Kaiten>Kasha>Light>Kaiten>Light2 repeat


Would it be possible to follow the 2nd Light with another relic WS to make a 3rd LV3 chain, or does the chain just end there no matter what?

I pretty much don't know jack about relics, but I haven't heard of or seen any vids of anything more than two Lights or Darknesses being done in a row.
#55 May 15 2009 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: double-post on my edit. Sorry about that.

Edited, May 15th 2009 4:19pm by Kaetara
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#56 May 15 2009 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Ellatrix wrote:
I think BLM is fine. It's a useful job in plenty of situations. But don't limit yourself and have only 1 job at 75; no job can do everything. Yea it could use a boost, but it's hardly garbage. Elemental staves are insane, and going beyond that is something SE doesn't seem to want to do.

Don't forget DD need good support to do well, give BLM some proper support too.



You can factor in support all you want. In the end, said support works better for melees than it does for BLMs.

The biggest limitation on BLM isn't the damage BLM does. It's the MP required to do said damage. As such, the best support a BLM could hope for would be refresh support, although AoE Klimaform + weather + Wizard's Roll would indeed be nice for upping the BLMs damage/MP ratio.

A BLM sitting with perfect Evoker's Roll (with a SMN in the PT) and Ballad I and II will get 8mp/tick refresh. While that is impressive, it would still take 66 seconds after casting a Thunder IV (barring Conserve MP) to get that MP back (171/8 = 21.375 ticks, rounded up to 22 since decimals don't work, 22 ticks at 3 seconds per tick = 66 seconds). It could be mitigated a bit more if the BLM uses a refresh effect body piece, but the bonus from that body piece would be negated when casting a nuke unless the BLM had Morrigan's Robe. It would definitely help a BLM stay on their feet longer, but ultimately they are going to have downtime, whereas melees can just keep going constantly.


Edit: Ooops.. I forgot the occurrence that there is a RDM giving Refresh. That would up it to 11mp/tick, 16 ticks to recover 171mp, or 48 seconds.

Oh what the hell...

Evoker's + Refresh + Ballads + Balrahn's + Sanction + full-time Morrigan's Robe would be 14mp/tick refresh. 13 ticks to recover 171mp, or 39 seconds. With a ~37 second recast, you could probably get by casting only Thunder IV when recast cools down without ever having to rest. The timing isn't perfect by any means, but Conserve MP is bound to kick in sometime during the use of your MP pool, which would make up some of the deficit. However, your damage would be limited in that you could only use one Thunder IV every 37-38 seconds or so.
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#57 May 15 2009 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Kaetara wrote:
Ellatrix wrote:
I think BLM is fine. It's a useful job in plenty of situations. But don't limit yourself and have only 1 job at 75; no job can do everything. Yea it could use a boost, but it's hardly garbage. Elemental staves are insane, and going beyond that is something SE doesn't seem to want to do.

Don't forget DD need good support to do well, give BLM some proper support too.



You can factor in support all you want. In the end, said support works better for melees than it does for BLMs.

The biggest limitation on BLM isn't the damage BLM does. It's the MP required to do said damage. As such, the best support a BLM could hope for would be refresh support, although AoE Klimaform + weather + Wizard's Roll would indeed be nice for upping the BLMs damage/MP ratio.

A BLM sitting with perfect Evoker's Roll (with a SMN in the PT) and Ballad I and II will get 8mp/tick refresh. While that is impressive, it would still take 66 seconds after casting a Thunder IV (barring Conserve MP) to get that MP back (171/8 = 21.375 ticks, rounded up to 22 since decimals don't work, 22 ticks at 3 seconds per tick = 66 seconds). It could be mitigated a bit more if the BLM uses a refresh effect body piece, but the bonus from that body piece would be negated when casting a nuke unless the BLM had Morrigan's Robe. It would definitely help a BLM stay on their feet longer, but ultimately they are going to have downtime, whereas melees can just keep going constantly.


Edit: Ooops.. I forgot the occurrence that there is a RDM giving Refresh. That would up it to 11mp/tick, 16 ticks to recover 171mp, or 48 seconds.

Oh what the hell...

Evoker's + Refresh + Ballads + Balrahn's + Sanction + full-time Morrigan's Robe would be 14mp/tick refresh. 13 ticks to recover 171mp, or 39 seconds. With a ~37 second recast, you could probably get by casting only Thunder IV when recast cools down without ever having to rest. The timing isn't perfect by any means, but Conserve MP is bound to kick in sometime during the use of your MP pool, which would make up some of the deficit. However, your damage would be limited in that you could only use one Thunder IV every 37-38 seconds or so.
Oh, see, we're not broken! We just need a minimum of three separate jobs supporting us and some pretty nice gear and we might be able to keep up. Smiley: grin SE, you really could have come out and told us this in the first place.
#58 May 16 2009 at 6:00 AM Rating: Default
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
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Main problem is it hasn't gotten any new shinies in a while, and it feels forgotten.


You mean ever, right? You realize that black mage has not ever gotten a new ability since the games release unless you count retrace, right?

Oh wait, I think that Bio II used to cost more mp in 2003.

sh*t, correct me; I'd like to be wrong


AM2. don't you dare dismiss it in hand otherwise I'm gonna start QQing about how my bard hasn't had any new spells in a while either
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#59 May 16 2009 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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ZiGG wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
Main problem is it hasn't gotten any new shinies in a while, and it feels forgotten.


You mean ever, right? You realize that black mage has not ever gotten a new ability since the games release unless you count retrace, right?

Oh wait, I think that Bio II used to cost more mp in 2003.

sh*t, correct me; I'd like to be wrong


AM2. don't you dare dismiss it in hand otherwise I'm gonna start QQing about how my bard hasn't had any new spells in a while either


Don't even get me started on this. Just kindly step out of the thread now, it will do you better in the long run. Anyone who considers AMII an update or a boost is a moron. End of story.

Just to give you something to think about before you say something like that again, AMII vs Troubadour + Nightingale + Foe Sirvente (Adventurer's Dirge isn't quite as useful so I'm not even listing it). You got two incredibly useful and powerful JAs plus a 2 new songs that give you the ability to help manipulate hate vs us getting 6 useless spells that are LESS MP efficient than our current ones, spike more hate and causing more problems, and have a negligible to useless side effect that we still can't tell if it even does anything decent.
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#60 May 16 2009 at 5:56 PM Rating: Default
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Well, I got blm to 75 some time ago, it has nice stuff since I have a "serious" rdm for awhile. However, I never use it because for hnm DD or event I go Drg, or thf for TH, or just rdm for control.

Blm is crucial though, its good to have and geared at 75 even if you only use it once every two months. SE will buff it again, blm just got too powerful and had to be checked briefly.

Once SE sees fewer blms, they'll do something if they still have enough people on the job to address these things.
#61 May 17 2009 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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Sunshine, happiness, and kittens!


... yeah, we're talking about SE and FFXI in this thread. I don't know what the #*@& company or game YOU'RE going on about.
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#62 May 17 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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Blm is crucial though, its good to have and geared at 75 even if you only use it once every two months. SE will buff it again, blm just got too powerful and had to be checked briefly.


That's the problem though, blm was -never- too powerful by any standard. It was never some ungodly damage that would wipe the floor with mobs, and laugh at melees with it's crazy good damage. SE just made melee's better over time with merits, new gear, haste, and buffs that a blm can't match with.

Blm does need a buff, but odds are, it'll never happen, as it hasn't happened yet.
#63 May 17 2009 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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5) Lack of Sight.
They just don't know how BLM works. They really dont. Dorje is a joke; Laevateinn is the best example of their lack of sight.
SE specifically stated that they wanted "Jobs to use TP to vary the aftermath effect". Well, that's really nice for melee weapons. But wait... you want the mages to work on this exact same system?
Did they seriously think that requiring BLM's to get TP was a smart idea? That's akin to saying that the WAR mythic is powered up by the amount of HP they cure; because WAR's just love throwing out Cure III's right?

****, they could have simply added "Converts Magic Damage to TP"; on a 100% proc, 10% convert rate and you'd have made it useful.


^ This.

It's like they have a team of developers all fired up on buffing PLD, WHM, SCH, etc. Meanwhile, they hire a room full of chimpanzees to work on BLM job improvements. Hey... if a billion monkeys pounding away at computers for a billion years will eventually write the Declaration of Independence, maybe a room full of chimpanzees going apesh*t will eventually give one usefull buff to BLM!**





**Fio is not responsible for damages incurred by getting chimpanzees to work as game developers. Hiring discretion is advised.
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#64 May 18 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Default
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You know, I wanted to level black mage as a new job but all this talk is discouraging. You guys are making it sound like blm isn't even any fun anymore. Is there any point in my leveling black mage? As far as it seems people LOOK like they still love you guys, as blm is one of the first jobs people look for in every end game shell I know of. Are people just misguided, me missing something, or something else?
#65 May 18 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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You know, I wanted to level black mage as a new job but all this talk is discouraging. You guys are making it sound like blm isn't even any fun anymore. Is there any point in my leveling black mage? As far as it seems people LOOK like they still love you guys, as blm is one of the first jobs people look for in every end game shell I know of. Are people just misguided, me missing something, or something else?


Oh no. It's not that blm isn't fun, hell, I have tons of fun on my blm in almost every event I do, it's just blm is less then stellar for somethings, and not a powerhouse that people wish it was. I'll never put up the top numbers in DoT, but I'll have a lot of fun trying.

As for most endgame shells wanting blms, for mass mob things, without a major limit on people, such as dynamis and einherjar. Blms make for very good crowd control, and can even solo their own mobs. A lot of LSes want the 2 or 3 people who are blm and want to be on blm, who can keep a bunch of dynamis mobs slept, and maybe solo/duo their own limbus chips.
#66 May 19 2009 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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The OP is an obvious troll.
Between his other posts on BLM (he's one of the "waaaaaah I couldn't get parties in 2005 because I sucked and I blame BLM!" morons) and the fact he never came back to the thread, it should be pretty obvious.

Hell, it should be obvious that everyone claiming BLM is "fine" is biased or a troll.
No one can be stupid enough to think Warp, Retrace, WarpII and Tractor are sufficient to make a job.
They've got us pointing them towards SCH vs BLM spell/JA lists, throwing maths at them, argumenting towards something that is painfully obvious: SCH is a better BLM with a lot more versatility.
I refuse to believe anyone is retarded enough to think both jobs are even remotely balanced.

They feign utter stupidity to confuse the issue, the truth is: allatards have been using BLM as a scapegoat since 2004, it's not going to change.

Stop throwing explanations at them. Stop getting trolled. Just insult them and move on.

Elliatrix wrote:

I can't touch my BLM nukes on SCH. Using Ebullience (+20% damage) is stupid anyway unless Tabula Rasa is up since Parsimony (-50% MP cost) is so much better.


So, wait. You realize that using Parsimony (higher damage/MP) is better than using Ebullience (higher e-peen)... but somehow your brain freezes at that point?

You're fascinating. Well, that's what I would say if I studied brain defects.

I thought of giving you a hint, but no.
I'll give you the immediate answer: using a SCH (higher damage/MP) is better than using BLM (higher e-peen).

Edit: Yes, I realize that in answering Elliatrix I gave a (short) explanation.
What can I say? I'm too nice.

Edited, May 19th 2009 7:44am by NotASock
#67 May 19 2009 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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ZiGG wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
Main problem is it hasn't gotten any new shinies in a while, and it feels forgotten.


You mean ever, right? You realize that black mage has not ever gotten a new ability since the games release unless you count retrace, right?

Oh wait, I think that Bio II used to cost more mp in 2003.

sh*t, correct me; I'd like to be wrong


AM2. don't you dare dismiss it in hand otherwise I'm gonna start QQing about how my bard hasn't had any new spells in a while either



I've said it before, and I'll say it again. AMII are flashy spells that are used more for showing off than their practical effectiveness. BLMs get them because there are no other Group 2 merits to choose from. In the grand scheme of things, three Thunder IV is better than two Burst II, and barring Conserve MP that's exactly what you'd get for the MP cost.

As a side note, are you seriously contending that BRDs are in need of an update? Consider for a moment that BRD is one of the most powerful support jobs to be had in this game, if not THE best. The only thing that comes close is COR. BLM is not by a long shot "the best" DD. It's not even "the best" magic DD, since SCH can put out so much contention with much greater versatility and better damage/MP ratios.

You say "don't you dare dismiss AMII out of hand". I say don't you dare bring AMII as an argument into a room full of BLMs that know the full extent of the actual usefulness of those spells and then start asking about BRD upgrades.
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#68 May 19 2009 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Kaiten>Kasha>Light>Kaiten>Light2 repeat


Would it be possible to follow the 2nd Light with another relic WS to make a 3rd LV3 chain, or does the chain just end there no matter what?

I pretty much don't know jack about relics, but I haven't heard of or seen any vids of anything more than two Lights or Darknesses being done in a row.

2 consecutive Lv.3s is the max. You cannot do Kaiten > Kasha (light) > [Meikyo Shisui] > Kaiten (light #2) > Kaiten (light #3) > Kaiten (light #4). So Light > Light or Dark > Dark and you need to start over again. The way wiki phrases it is misleading- "Multiple light chains back to back" simply means "One light to a second light, then end."

Edited, May 19th 2009 1:57pm by Prim
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