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How is BLM in endgame?Follow

#1 Apr 24 2009 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I was always under the impression that we're pretty awesome for most things endgame. I'm hearing otherwise from certain individuals in a Feedback Forum thread.

Thoughts?
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#2 Apr 24 2009 at 10:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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This was posted on =10 not too long ago:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=124002966135738256#m1240120895105573495

OmegaTyrant wrote:
Einherjar? BRD, PLD, BLM, RDM
DM? Needz BLM
Merits? SAM, DRG, BRD, RDM, RNG
Nation Missions? RNG, BLM, SMN, NIN, WHM, PLD
Sea? SAM, DRG, BLM, RDM, PLD, NIN, BRD
Sky? BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD
Limbus? BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD
Dynamis? BLM, PLD, NIN, RDM, BRD (yes, this event is a lot more flexible)
ZNMs? RDM, PLD, SAM, NIN, RNG, BRD, SMN
Assaults? SMN, RDM, SAM, WAR, RNG
COP? SMN, RNG, NIN, BLM
Zilart? PLD, RDM, SAM, BLM, BRD
TOAU? SAM, BLM, RDM
ACP? RNG, COR, PLD, SAM (if capped Marksmanship), THF (if capped Marksmanship)
Salvage? MNK, PUP, WAR, RDM, WHM, SAM, THF
Nyzul? RDM, SAM, BLU, BRD], COR


With some exceptions and additions, it is fairly accurate. People in the feedback forum must be pretty **** retarded.
#3 Apr 25 2009 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
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That list is completely retarded and compiled by an idiot who knows hardly anything about endgame. However, it is mostly accurate as far as BLM goes.

Edited, Apr 25th 2009 3:10pm by Ellatrix
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#4 Apr 25 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Default
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2004 endgame = awesome
2005 endgame = good
2006 endgame = decent
2007 endgame = shit
2008 endgame = shit
#5 Apr 25 2009 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
2004 endgame = awesome
2005 endgame = good
2006 endgame = decent
2007 endgame = ****
2008 endgame = ****


O...kay? So does this mean BLMs are awesome for Sky, good at Sea, decent for Salvage, **** for anything newer? :P

I really can't see how BLM could possibly be ****, except maybe for Nyzul Isle.
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#6 Apr 25 2009 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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PriestoftheVoid wrote:
Quote:
2004 endgame = awesome
2005 endgame = good
2006 endgame = decent
2007 endgame = sh*t
2008 endgame = sh*t


O...kay? So does this mean BLMs are awesome for Sky, good at Sea, decent for Salvage, sh*t for anything newer? :P

I really can't see how BLM could possibly be sh*t, except maybe for Nyzul Isle.

Awesome for sea, ok for sky, good for einherjar, not anything special for anything else
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#7 Apr 25 2009 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Priest of the Void wrote:
I was always under the impression that we're pretty awesome for most things endgame. I'm hearing otherwise from certain individuals in a Feedback Forum thread.

Thoughts?

Depends what you are looking to get into for endgame, endgame has a lot of events in which you can attend on blm, and others which you can not. Usually most endgame/HNM shells will look for someone who has variety in their jobs. Having atleast 1 melee job, 1 mage job, is something to help you get in faster.

Endgame is about what you can offer the team, not what you want(ie being blm only, or only the jobs you want). You have the right to not level another job, just like a shell has the right not to pick you.

Im not sure what you are reading on the feedback thread, perhaps its the discussion on the workings that blm needs. This really doesnt have any hinderance on blm for endgame. Ofcourse it being adjusted/fix would help it in endgame greatly aswell though.

Blm's problem is in its MP efficiency, which is what keeps it out of most merit pts(that arent bird camp) Blm has to rest to replenish its mp, and other than damage/mob control, it offers nothing else to the pt. Whm, Rdm, Sch, all offer something to the pt, and have better mp control than a blm do, helping them never get excluded from pts.

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#8 Apr 28 2009 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
How is BLM in endgame?


Go to any big endgame LS's "Jobs Wanted" title in their "Applications" thread on their forum page. I've never not seen BLM listed on any I've perused.

It seems every job in FFXI focuses on the events it doesn't excel in to label themselves useless and complain. Apparently even the most sought after job for most endgame events. If every job on these forums was as useless as their specific forum would have you believe, no one would ever get anything done.

Obviously leveling and meriting are a whole different story.


Edited, Apr 28th 2009 4:49am by Teratogen
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#9 May 05 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Default
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That's just because most people don't enjoy Blm in endgame. Most of the time you're just supporting and not actually able to concentrate on dealing damage. If you just want to deal damage you're better off leveling a 2-hander melee.

Also Blm is hardly the most sought job. Whm, Sch, Brd, and Rdm are harder to come by than Blm. Now good Blms that know the job well and understand it's capabilities outside damage dealing are hard to come by.

Edited, May 5th 2009 6:45am by OrsonBastokChampion
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#10 May 05 2009 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
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OmegaTyrant's list is completely retarded.

Kerb's is mostly correct, despite being more generic.
Quote:

2004 endgame = awesome
2005 endgame = good
2006 endgame = decent
2007 endgame = sh*t
2008 endgame = sh*t


O...kay? So does this mean BLMs are awesome for Sky, good at Sea, decent for Salvage, sh*t for anything newer? :P

I really can't see how BLM could possibly be sh*t, except maybe for Nyzul Isle.


I'll detail his list a bit:

2004=City Dynamises.
Green-eyed statues make BLM much better than it would be in any other event involving a lot of weak mobs, so BLM is awesome for that.

2005=ground Kings, Sky, Dynamis-Beaucedine, Dynamis-Xarcabard.
BLMs are good for Kings, though SCH is better.
In Sky, using BLMs just slows down your kills. Use melees.
In Dynamis-Beaucedine... see cities.
In Dynamis-Xarcabard, BLMs are good for the run (SCH better) and useless on the boss (DL).

2006=Sea, Limbus, CoP Dynamises, CoP Wyrms.
In Sea, BLMs are the second best DD on all but 1 Jailer (best is SCH). The exception is obviously Temperance.
In Limbus, BLM is ok. For most zones, melees are more efficient, but there's the odd time where having a BLM (or, better: a SCH) helps. Omega is easy, Ultima requires a mix of physical damage and magical damage for the last 20%.
In CoP Dynamises, BLM is worthless.
Against CoP Wyrms, BLM is good.

I guess if you average all that, you get "decent".

2007=Salvage, Cerberus, Khimaira, Hydra, Nyzul, Einherjar.
BLM is shit for most of that.
The exception is Einherjar, where BLM is decent but far behind SCH in overall usefulness.

2008=Ixion.
BLM is shit for Ixion.

Edited, May 5th 2009 1:01pm by NotASock
#11 May 05 2009 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Our LS functions with BLM army.

Get 10-12 BLM's in dynamis/znm(most mobs)/limbus and you will pretty much own all.

Eihnerjar - BLM kinda sucks
#12 May 06 2009 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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Manofnofaith wrote:

Eihnerjar - BLM kinda sucks


Except when you pull ghosts. Or elementals.

And then, SCH outclasses it.
#13 May 06 2009 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Kerberoz wrote:
2004 endgame = awesome
2005 endgame = good
2006 endgame = decent
2007 endgame = shit
2008 endgame = shit


I can't say this any better.

Also, BLMs are no longer damage dealer. "DD" is defined as Sam, Drk, War, other melee etc, nowaday.
#14 May 21 2009 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In Dynamis-Xarcabard, BLMs are good for the run (SCH better) and useless on the boss (DL).


aren't blm needed to kill the 2 dragons in order for DL to die? put that as a lil useful on the boss :/
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#15 May 21 2009 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Uh... no? Ying/Yang are just slightly stronger normal dragons. Don't need magic damage.

You don't fight them when he re-summons them, lol >.>
#16 Jun 03 2009 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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Kerberoz wrote:
Uh... no? Ying/Yang are just slightly stronger normal dragons. Don't need magic damage.

You don't fight them when he re-summons them, lol >.>


It's popular to use magic DD to kill them, and yes, every time I've fought them in a couple different shells the generic tactic is to use BLMs (and any other nuke-capable mage) to knock em' out. Normal dragons too, for that matter.

As for end-game, I've always found myself useful and needed on BLM. Then again, most of what I've done is Einherjar and Dynamis. I'd say above-average. In a sense, while the role we play is limited, very few other jobs can do it. Any role where you have to time-nuke is pretty much BLM-exclusive; certain Dynamis situations come to mind easily. SCHs can help, but BLM is a far more powerful one-shot sniper than a SCH can be. Large crowd control is us, SCHs, and BRDs. Magic DD is us, SCHs, RDMs. Those are some pretty in-demand groups of jobs we're lumped with, too. The needs certainly aren't as generic or widespread as "damage", which is sadly accomplished best by melee DD these days. But what we are useful for, we're often needed quite badly for.
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#17 Jun 03 2009 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good
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One thing I have been confused by is why blms harp on SCH being competitors for nuking, but never mention pup. A fully merited in automaton magic/optimization pup with the right attachments can easily do the same damage as a good BLMs AMII, and a maxed out one can surpass it. If magic accuracy is needed, a little damage can be sacrificed for very high magic accuracy instead, while still maintaining AMII damage.

I mean, pup can deactivate the automaton once a minute to shed it's hate completely, reset its recast timer to 0, and reset it's mp to full provided the automaton has full health, which is usually easy to keep at. They can even cast while running, and get off two powerful nukes a minute, or a more frequent weaker nukes, depending on what you choose.

Seriously, what is your guys opinions on pup? One blm didn't believe me when I said automatons could outnuke a good BLMs AMII, but then I proceeded to pop a 1912 bliz IV on an aht urghan attercop outside (with abs-int and burn, no day/weather bonus or magic burst), whereas with him having latents activated and burn on mob only reached 1830. (having the auto abs-int isn't exactly cheating, as the automaton only has about 87 int with 3 ice maneuvers normally... and hey, it lands on some HNMs, helping blm's/autos nuke damage, and lowering damage from the boss's spells.)

Just curious. :s
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#18 Jun 03 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Might have something to do with how there's maybe 1 pup per server that does that?
#19 Jun 03 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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HitomeOfBismarck wrote:

OmegaTyrant wrote:

Einherjar? BRD, PLD, BLM, RDM
DM? Needz BLM
Merits? SAM, DRG, BRD, RDM, RNG
Nation Missions? RNG, BLM, SMN, NIN, WHM, PLD
Sea? SAM, DRG, BLM, RDM, PLD, NIN, BRD
Sky? BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD
Limbus? BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD
Dynamis? BLM, PLD, NIN, RDM, BRD (yes, this event is a lot more flexible)
ZNMs? RDM, PLD, SAM, NIN, RNG, BRD, SMN
Assaults? SMN, RDM, SAM, WAR, RNG
COP? SMN, RNG, NIN, BLM
Zilart? PLD, RDM, SAM, BLM, BRD
TOAU? SAM, BLM, RDM
ACP? RNG, COR, PLD, SAM (if capped Marksmanship), THF (if capped Marksmanship)
Salvage? MNK, PUP, WAR, RDM, WHM, SAM, THF
Nyzul? RDM, SAM, BLU, BRD], COR



With some exceptions and additions, it is fairly accurate. People in the feedback forum must be pretty **** retarded.


This list is really inaccurate... Even for BLM. As mentioned, melee is more effective in sky than BLM. Also, SCH is the best support job for salvage, and it's not even mentioned. SCH is also better than BLM most of the time, especially if you've got a COR to give them warlock's. Cor is good everywhere BRD is. BLM is really only better (arguably) than melee for the later ZMs. Basically, BLM becomes quickly inferior on a great deal of things once you stick a cor and/or brd behind the melee.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 3:43pm by Leonadis
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#20 Jun 09 2009 at 6:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

It's popular to use magic DD to kill them, and yes, every time I've fought them in a couple different shells the generic tactic is to use BLMs (and any other nuke-capable mage) to knock em' out. Normal dragons too, for that matter.


Must be very slow.
I can't see why you wouldn't use melees on the dragons and Ying/Yang and climb towards DL in 5 minutes instead of what... half an hour?
#21 Jun 09 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Default
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PsionofPhoenix wrote:
One thing I have been confused by is why blms harp on SCH being competitors for nuking, but never mention pup. A fully merited in automaton magic/optimization pup with the right attachments can easily do the same damage as a good BLMs AMII, and a maxed out one can surpass it. If magic accuracy is needed, a little damage can be sacrificed for very high magic accuracy instead, while still maintaining AMII damage.

I mean, pup can deactivate the automaton once a minute to shed it's hate completely, reset its recast timer to 0, and reset it's mp to full provided the automaton has full health, which is usually easy to keep at. They can even cast while running, and get off two powerful nukes a minute, or a more frequent weaker nukes, depending on what you choose.

Seriously, what is your guys opinions on pup? One blm didn't believe me when I said automatons could outnuke a good BLMs AMII, but then I proceeded to pop a 1912 bliz IV on an aht urghan attercop outside (with abs-int and burn, no day/weather bonus or magic burst), whereas with him having latents activated and burn on mob only reached 1830. (having the auto abs-int isn't exactly cheating, as the automaton only has about 87 int with 3 ice maneuvers normally... and hey, it lands on some HNMs, helping blm's/autos nuke damage, and lowering damage from the boss's spells.)

Just curious. :s


This is because a pup's cant magic burst tier IV spells easily, nor cast as often as a blm(although.. why would a BLM be casting so often O.o).... also it still has lower mag acc than a BLM >.>;
#22 Jun 09 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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I've hourglass ******* for a few Dynamis groups, they wanted BLMs...
Done a few KS99s, they wanted BLMs...
Recently did sky farming with my casual LS, we wanted BLMs...
Apollyon NW coin farming? Yup, BLMs. (Unfortunately, my knowledge and experience with Limbus doesn't go far past low-man coin farming, because I've yet to find any shell with a compatible schedule for me)

I'm sure if I really tried to extend my Whitegate shout memory, I could expand this list.

I'm really not seeing a terribly big problem as far as desirability goes. Sure, SCH might excel against weaker targets, but they are harder to find and tend to be pigeon-holed into other roles more easily than BLM is.
#23 Jun 09 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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BLM is still wanted in endgame.

More intelligent people realize that anytime you want a BLM, a SCH would be better. With very few exceptions. But you know how rare intelligent people are.

The big problem with BLM is that its just innefficient. Too much time resting for mp. A good SCH nukes almost as well as a BLM, but with half the downtime. And is much more versatile if the situation needs.
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#24 Jun 09 2009 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This is because a pup's cant magic burst tier IV spells easily, nor cast as often as a blm(although.. why would a BLM be casting so often O.o).... also it still has lower mag acc than a BLM >.>;


first off, a pup can magic burst quite easily, because so long as it's magic recast is up, the automaton will cast the instant it is deployed. I've time nuked and magic bursted along with the rest of the blm's just fine in dynamis and other endgame situations... the only difficulty we have magic bursting is having the automaton use the right spell for the magic burst, as blizzard IV is our highest spell. Unless a monster has a specific weakness, like kirin and wind (auto will use aero IV instead), or flans and fire, the auto will usually use blizzard IV, because it DOES have enough magic accuracy to land.

As far as casting as often, it depends on the setup. I can have my automaton cast a spell every 5 seconds and chainnuke, but that would require him to have nearly no magic attack bonus if I wanted speed/accuracy. For most purposes, a pup will be getting off two nukes per minute if hate is secure, a weaker one at start, and a second, fully charged one that does AMII damage or even slightly higher near the end of the minute, when deactivate is up. This is followed by deactivate > deploy weak nuke, charge up, repeat. On anything lasting more than several minutes, pup is almost always going to beat blm in the nuking department, simply because it has no worries whatsoever about mp or hate. (Of course, blms still win in the elemental enfeeble/stun/sleep/-ga nuke departments)

As far as magic accuracy goes, the only monster I've ever had issues with resist on is Kirin, and I don't bother using magic on him because Oniwaka's melee tears him apart much better. Tranquilizer with 3x ice maneuver up, 5/5 magic skill, and +15 pet magic acc in gear tends to go quite a long ways.

As far as HNMs, for some reason I never took pictures of his nukes on them. ><; maybe tonight during sea and limbus I can snap some. But here is a picture of him doing blizzard IV on a tiger in beau. glacier, double ice bonus:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Psionphoenix/img_20090317_171314.png

keep in mind though, this was before I got mirke and pantin feet. Now Oni does 2650+ blizzard IV on those with double ice weather, 2112+ without. He's pretty much maxed out for an automaton now.


Edited, Jun 9th 2009 3:25pm by PsionofPhoenix
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#25 Jun 09 2009 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
(although.. why would a BLM be casting so often O.o)

Because a blm that isn't spamming nukes as often as mp allows is pretty much not worth the party slot, unless you're talking about weak mobs like in limbus or something. For hnms, there's no reason to be holding back, ever. If you ever pull hate on an hnm, and don't lose it the second the tank casts a spell, or you get hit, then the tank is doinitrong, and needs to gtfo so a tank that doesn't suck can take his place.

Quote:
I've hourglass ******* for a few Dynamis groups, they wanted BLMs...
Done a few KS99s, they wanted BLMs...
Recently did sky farming with my casual LS, we wanted BLMs...
Apollyon NW coin farming? Yup, BLMs. (Unfortunately, my knowledge and experience with Limbus doesn't go far past low-man coin farming, because I've yet to find any shell with a compatible schedule for me)

I'm sure if I really tried to extend my Whitegate shout memory, I could expand this list.

I'm really not seeing a terribly big problem as far as desirability goes. Sure, SCH might excel against weaker targets, but they are harder to find and tend to be pigeon-holed into other roles more easily than BLM is.

blm is great for lowman things. It can do a lot of damage in a very short span of time, which makes it great for 1-3 man limbus (with 3/4 apollyon zones being done with 1-2 people...though sch is still better for all of them), or 1-6 man sea/sky, and also for things like ks99. Nukes also have the advantage of only giving 10 tp each, instead of the 100+ that melees would give to do the same amount of damage.

However those short bursts of damage also require quite a bit of time for resting, so even if blm can do more damage in a 30 second time frame, that sam will definitely do more in a 30 minute time frame, because they can continue doing damage without stopping. The lesser tp is also irrelevant when you have a few melees, since the mob is generally going to be getting 100 tp in a matter of 3~5 seconds or so anyway, depending on how many dd.

blm can certainly be a useful job, but usually only for lowmanning... unless you have sch, then it's pretty much useless, except for nuking some more resistant hnms without a warlock's roll and/or int etudes.
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