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Sch potential and why is it being overlookedFollow

#52 Oct 01 2011 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Yea even if sch got cure V I would still whm most of the time now that I have it at 95.
#53 Oct 02 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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One new thing that I haven't heard too much about (though I haven't really looked -too much- but I have a bit) is Scholar's new Zerg Potential with Embrava.

Embrava can get to around 30 haste @ 95 with high enhancing magic skill. This stacks with haste. It can be AoE'd with Accession, and can be cast outside the party as well. It can be increased in duration to 12.5 minutes. It also can give a 5/tick regain as well as a really high regen (402 enhancing magic is 58/tick). Stack it with Celerity for a faster cast on two parties.

What does this mean?

Haste can now be capped on two parties with a scholar and a WHM/RDM/SMN using haste. You don't need Bard Marches. This frees a bard to use something like Double Minuet or Minuet V / Madrigal Soul voice'd if you have a bard.

Also, some of the melee may be starting the fight with 300 TP because of the regain effect. It's also good for rangers as they don't melee but can use the regain, and they get can stack that with COR regain if you wanted to.

It opens some new possibilities, I feel. Also, SCH (though not as good as whm, but better than nearly everything else) can help keep the melee alive with AoE Cure IV's.

Just a little thought, as before SCH was just a tabula rasa nuking zerger... Now we have a light arts option as well.


Edited, Oct 2nd 2011 2:58pm by Annalise
#54 Oct 03 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Annalise wrote:
Also, SCH (though not as good as whm, but better than nearly everything else) can help keep the melee alive with AoE Cure IV's.

Which I'm glad we can do, however, it's just the melee's that we can help keep alive, not the tank; which is the main problem...
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#55 Oct 03 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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In regards to keeping the tanks alive, yes it is really hard just as a single sch healing, Some would say impossible. In many ways, and in the higher tier monster it is. Honestly though it shouldn't be a single sch. I understand many of you would like that, and in ways i would too.

It's also my personal opninion that there are a lot of lazy players in FFXI. The truth is you can work around not having a whm, yes it takes good players, it takes the group working as a whole, and yes it is tough. For the people who think they absolutely can't work around having a whm, and absolutely have to have a whm, and want to cure as sch, my advice is this: take the two or three days and level whm to 95. Honestly you'll get invites fairly quick for exp, no screw that stop being lazy, put your own party together, You can even go to abyssea right away and open chests (level 30 and later), and find new members for the alliance, and you'll be main healing even sooner. When the opportunity comes that another player is playing whm, swith back to sch. You'll get everything you wanted(and i understand you wanted to cure as sch, but seriously). If however you decide you truly want to be sch, then sch's weakness in truth must not be as big as you think.

A few of you look at it as weaker versions of a few jobs, i believe it's the sum that matters. If you truly believed (and some of you do, so this isn't meant for you) that sch was weaker than blm and whm you would play as them, and leave sch to the people who believe that being able to switch on the fly between curing and magic DD makes up for not being as strong as blm or whm. That's my personal opinion. You can say i disagree with this opinion all you want, but i will never look at one aspect of something and rate it as that, i will allways add the numbers and compare.

Keep editing becuase i know svylons will try to tear the any non specific thing that someone just trying to difficult would point out. I even deleted a comparison.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2011 7:02pm by riznobi
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#56riznobi, Posted: Oct 03 2011 at 5:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No way, I thought whm only got cure spells?!?!?! OMG i've been completely wrong about everything! Svylons you have changed my life with that very obvious statement.
#57 Oct 03 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In regards to keeping the tanks alive, yes it is really hard just as a single sch healing, Some would say impossible. In many ways, and in the higher tier monster it is. Honestly though it shouldn't be a single sch. I understand many of you would like that, and in ways i would too.


Why can't it be a single scholar if my whm can run around healing practically any DD in abyssea with minimal effort.

Quote:
It's also my personal opninion that there are a lot of lazy players in FFXI. The truth is you can work around not having a whm, yes it takes good players, it takes the group working as a whole, and yes it is tough.


Go try to do Voidwatch without a Whm. Have fun

Quote:
For the people who think they absolutely can't work around having a whm, and absolutely have to have a whm, and want to cure as sch, my advice is this: take the two or three days and level whm to 95.


Been there. Done that.

Quote:
If however you decide you truly want to be sch, then sch's weakness in truth must not be as big as you think.


How does wanting to play sch make it's weaknesses dissapear?

Quote:
If you truly believed (and some of you do, so this isn't meant for you) that sch was weaker than blm and whm you would play as them, and leave sch to the people who believe that being able to switch on the fly between curing and magic DD makes up for not being as strong as blm or whm.


How often do you even switch on the fly. Yes I change from one battle to the other (or used to), but I didn't often say I'll heal now and then nuke 1 minute later midfight. I'm usually tied to one role for most of the fight if not all of it.


#58 Oct 03 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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Vestrivan wrote:
Annalise wrote:
Also, SCH (though not as good as whm, but better than nearly everything else) can help keep the melee alive with AoE Cure IV's.

Which I'm glad we can do, however, it's just the melee's that we can help keep alive, not the tank; which is the main problem...


Yeah, I'm talking about during a zerg though. I'm not talking about in general. You just want to Curaga or Accession Cure IV everyone as the mob unloads AoE damage. You don't really focus on just a tank in said situation.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2011 10:01pm by Annalise
#59 Oct 04 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
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riznobi wrote:
Keep editing becuase i know svylons will try to tear the any non specific thing that someone just trying to difficult would point out. I even deleted a comparison.

Every single word is important. It either adds to your argument, or takes away from it. If you can clearly make your point in just 2 paragraphs, don't use 6 paragraphs.
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#60 Oct 04 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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riznobi wrote:
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
And just for the record I want to make it very clear that i don't believe the answer is just sch gets cure v. There has to be more, whm has to have it's own high points, that make it worth grabbing over sch or rdm, and realistically i can't see that happening if we get cure V, and nothing else changes.

Do you have WHM leveled to 90+? Because Cure V isn't the only thing that makes WHM the premier healer in this game.

No way, I thought whm only got cure spells?!?!?! OMG i've been completely wrong about everything! Svylons you have changed my life with that very obvious statement.

You didn't even answer the question about whether or not you have WHM leveled. The gap between WHM and SCH main healing is bigger than just Cure V.
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#61 Oct 04 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
And just for the record I want to make it very clear that i don't believe the answer is just sch gets cure v. There has to be more, whm has to have it's own high points, that make it worth grabbing over sch or rdm, and realistically i can't see that happening if we get cure V, and nothing else changes.

Do you have WHM leveled to 90+? Because Cure V isn't the only thing that makes WHM the premier healer in this game.

No way, I thought whm only got cure spells?!?!?! OMG i've been completely wrong about everything! Svylons you have changed my life with that very obvious statement.

You didn't even answer the question about whether or not you have WHM leveled. The gap between WHM and SCH main healing is bigger than just Cure V.


LOL.
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#62 Oct 04 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's two kinds of events in the game these days: Voidwatch, and everything else. You absolutely need WHM for Voidwatch, and everything else can be lowmanned, which calls for role specialization to be successful.

Point being, a group of 'skilled' players are going to be lowmanning things, not bringing twice, thrice times as many people as is necessary. As such, WHM or BLM are much more useful simply because they are specialists. This is why so few people play SCH anymore; it's still a good job, but the metagame has changed. Anybody who has a clue is going to opt to use 3 specialists over a menagerie of generalists.

So you can argue all you want, and tell yourself you're 'skilled' because you make SCH work overkill everything you do, but fact is the game has changed, and you're still living in 2008.
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#63 Oct 05 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
There's two kinds of events in the game these days: Voidwatch, and everything else. You absolutely need WHM for Voidwatch, and everything else can be lowmanned, which calls for role specialization to be successful.

Point being, a group of 'skilled' players are going to be lowmanning things, not bringing twice, thrice times as many people as is necessary. As such, WHM or BLM are much more useful simply because they are specialists. This is why so few people play SCH anymore; it's still a good job, but the metagame has changed. Anybody who has a clue is going to opt to use 3 specialists over a menagerie of generalists.

So you can argue all you want, and tell yourself you're 'skilled' because you make SCH work overkill everything you do, but fact is the game has changed, and you're still living in 2008.


Everything you said is completely true. You stated it very clearly and accurately. I can play like the masses, and play the "right" way. I can Zerg all the bosses i want with more than enough people to kill it, and never having a challenge. I have done all this, i never enjoyed it. I've had the godliest setup, and i've spent most of my earlier ffxi life doing it this way. I hate it. I cannot have fun without the chance of losing. Everything seems to mean something when it's fought for, not just taken.

I do go Whm when i absolutely have to, I love my blm, it was my first job ever on ffxi, always the one i think of first. Sch is all about utility. I love the tools it has. The most devastating thing that ever happened to me was SE introducing Sch, and seeing it's possibilities, my soloing life as blm was over. If i gave the impression that i go sch every single time to every event, i made a huge mistake. I play bst, nin, and war also. If you read some of my earlier posts my standpoint is that i don't believe sch should get cure V, with how the games setup currently. I was just making points i have main healed as sch, and you could if you had to/wanted to, and yes i have had support from my friends. No it's not as effecient, but yes it's possible.

How often do you bring more than one whm to an event? People DC in this game quite a bit. I love knowing that my group, if i go sch, can make do till the whm gets back. If i go blm can we? idk lol.

Everyone who understands sch knows it gets weaker the more you add. If you have 6 blms and you replace one with a sch, i think it has a positive effect. If you replace all the blm's with sch's you lose quite a bit. I don't argue all this. I agree, but there is more than one way of playing, and that's my point. It's a game I play to have fun. You can tell me i'm wrong, and that i'm wasting players, it sounds like you come from a good ls, you have good support. How often do you really have fun playing the game? How often does you ls support you when you think up something crazy? I understand there's a sense of accomplishment, but true enjoyment is different. When i log in tonight I might play with something that's not the "best setup", but i will have fun tonight. In fact i'll enjoy every random struggle tonight.

I did a /sea all yesterday, and each job had at least 100 people playing that job between levels 75-95, with the exception of sch. sch had 17, and 23 total from 1-95. I like that i play a job no one else does. I'd rather do that then jump on a job when it get's popular.
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#64 Oct 05 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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So in other words, your enjoyment of the game is dependant on a masochistic need to handicap yourself whenever possible?

You can correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm not trying to be a dick, but that's what I got from it.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#65 Oct 06 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Default
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LOL. Yeah you can say that. It's worded in a way to make me sound twisted, but you can take it that way. Some games have difficulty settings, and i understand some peopl play games completely for the storyline, or else you seem to find easy mode challenging enough? I play hard mode. I like the challenge. It's a personal choice.

I will state again, i do play other jobs, and that i do play whm when i have to. My whole opinion was that with how the game is setup, i personaly don't see sch getting cure V, and it shouldn't. I stated that i have main healed as sch, and i like it's versatility. I also said that people shouldn't complain, with how the games setup you can get from 1-95 in two days of grinding, three if you take your time. Take what i say and twist it, or think about what i say. This game is easy, it's not hard, so stop making it harder than it is.
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#66 Oct 07 2011 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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This game is easy, it's not hard, so stop making it harder than it is.


...that's what you're doing. Smiley: dubious
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#67 Oct 07 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I play hard mode. I like the challenge. It's a personal choice.

This is why you play SCH over WHM.

Quote:
This game is easy, it's not hard, so stop making it harder than it is.

This is why I play WHM over SCH.
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#68riznobi, Posted: Oct 07 2011 at 1:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Really people. I don't play Sch over Whm. Read ALL of my posts and quit being retards.
#69 Oct 07 2011 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
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So you like playing "hard mode", except when you don't. Fantastic.

Did you have a point, or you just like reading what you type?
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#70 Oct 08 2011 at 11:37 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
My point is read all my posts before you take one thing i said in response to something someone else said. I don't want to have to retype everything i write. My whole view was Sch cant just get cure V. I Stated numerous times that the games not hard, level another job if you absolutely have to have a whm or a blm. I also said if you truly love sch you will play it, which is true. Sure sometimes you might have to jump on either blm, or whm, but i believe if someone else is said job, then sch works very nicely. It's more versatile than blm or whm, and therfore it should lack a little each that the other jobs would have. Yes i have found it useful to help cure, and DD/ crowd control when i need to. It gets a little annoying when i say that's my opinion and it gets attacked by "OMG IT CANT CURE AS WELL OR DO AS MUCH DAMAGE AS ANOTHER JOB SO YOU'RE WRONG."

It's my opinion, and yes i have said i agree with a lot of the opinions on this page too, but it's not as simple as toss whatever you believe job should have at that job.

You can take everything i take out of context, or you can read, and try to understrand. It's not that hard. Really.

Oh and i don't like reading what i write, i @#%^ing love it.

And my honest to god point with all this sch talk was if you love a job, if you love it, then play it.

Edited, Oct 9th 2011 1:40am by riznobi
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#71 Oct 09 2011 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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Well, I already explained what I think of your opinion (it's inefficient and has no place in today's metagame), so I'll leave it at that.

On an unrelated note though, how can you possibly love reading the grammatical train-wrecks that you post? They give me headaches.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#72 Oct 09 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
Me and one of my friends can duo nearly any mob in the game, and neither one of us goes WHM. From your viewpoint this makes whm useless, does it not? My point from the very begining is that i play this game to have fun. That's it.

I love reading my grammatical train-wrecks because i know they will give you a headache, just like your opinionated views, and how you take verious things i say completely out of context, and run around with it like your superior give me headaches.
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#73 Oct 09 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Me and one of my friends can duo nearly any mob in the game, and neither one of us goes WHM. From your viewpoint this makes whm useless, does it not?


You're too busy fapping at your awesome posts to understand mine, I see.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#74 Oct 10 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Default
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I understood your points. I believe in one of my posts above i even said that i agree with them. You however have voiced that i'm wrong when all i've been writing is opinion, opinions which you say are wrong, which by your own logic ruins your very own views.

It's self-defeating to write about a metagame, to read what's the best, and then play that. There's no fun in that, and then it was never your own victory. It's like buying a strategy guide and reading about the game before you play. If FFXI had an absolute rule to everything you did, then what would be the point?
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#75 Oct 10 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
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Some of us don't need to be told what works best in a given situation; we can figure it out on our own.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#76 Oct 11 2011 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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riznobi wrote:
It's self-defeating to write about a metagame, to read what's the best, and then play that. There's no fun in that, and then it was never your own victory. It's like buying a strategy guide and reading about the game before you play.

You might not think it's fun, but many people find their enjoyment in the execution of a strategy, not necessarily in its discovery.

And if you think taking information from other people robs you from being able to have "your own victory", what are you doing on a message board? So you can enable people to then look down on them later?
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#77 Oct 11 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
It's self-defeating to write about a metagame, to read what's the best, and then play that. There's no fun in that, and then it was never your own victory. It's like buying a strategy guide and reading about the game before you play.

You might not think it's fun, but many people find their enjoyment in the execution of a strategy, not necessarily in its discovery.

And if you think taking information from other people robs you from being able to have "your own victory", what are you doing on a message board? So you can enable people to then look down on them later?


I'm on a message board to talk, and respond to people. Share idea's, and input my knowledge. I'm also here to learn. I'm deffinately not here to critisize everyone's opinion and spout off that certain things are the only way, and basically independant thought is wrong.

It's fine if you want to say all that, but the metagame is essentially a compilation of our knowledge of the game. It's insider information on how something works to change your actions. It means we can act instead of having to react. Essentially to know without having to learn.

It's not strictly a strategy. It's knowledge. You can use that knowledge to your advantage, or you can follow that knowledge without a single thought of your own. The metagame will never say free thinking is wrong.

It's not wrong to learn the metagame, but it will only cripple you to follow the metagame to a T. I stand by my statements. You can take the littlest part of them, and make your own conclusions, try to twist them so i've said something in error. You can fail at your arguments, and then try to make this an arguement about something else. It's a sign of a weak person to attack someone's views with such petty tactics.



Edited, Oct 11th 2011 5:10pm by riznobi

Edited, Oct 11th 2011 5:14pm by riznobi
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#78 Dec 13 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Stuff is getting too complicated here.

The point is simple. RDM and SCH should be one notch below WHM in healing. Therefore, since WHM has Cure 6, then RDM and SCH should have Cure 5. This maintains WHM superiority, and RDM and SCH competence.

Having only Cure 4, which is two whole notches below, is sad sad sad....
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#79 Dec 14 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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It's ok, because SE has decided to let SCH and only SCH cast Regen on alliance members. Surely, that is the healing uniqueness that SCH has been lacking.

</sarcasm>
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