Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Sch potential and why is it being overlookedFollow

#1 Aug 24 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
20 posts
I just got Sch to 90 last week. I have full merits but my skill lvls are still a bit low due to Aby lvling but I have been soloing and bringing up my lvls every night. I have also searched the Sch threads for any and all info I can get about Sch. This brings me to making this thread. I keep reading on how ppl want Sch to get Cure V so they can help heal a party. I feel that healing in parties most of the time does nothing to set Sch apart from Rdm and even Smn as far as them being backup healers.

I came across a thread about Sch being able to self skillchain and I have been working on this aspect of Sch for the last 4 days. I have been soloing the worms in Aby La thiene and I can now skillchain and magic burst a worm to zero hp most of the time. If the worm survives the Distortion skillchain then normally the next tick of Luminehelix kills it. This brings me to my question. Wouldn't Sch be better utilized to enfeeble and DD with self skillchains instead of backup healing? I figure if u are inviting a Sch to heal then you most likely have your procs covered. Getting azure and pearl lights with Sch/rdm is really easy and the potential for melees to create Light and Dark off of our skillchains should make us even more desirable I would think. Am I wrong?
#2 Aug 24 2011 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
372 posts
asking for Cure V is mainly for "just in case we have to main heal" or the "holy crap" moments when we have to cure bomb if we're DD/enfeeble. Also, sometimes the mobs can go down so quickly that we don't always get the chance to self-sc (not to mention all the other DD almost constantly throwing WS's around, thereby ruining our chances for self-sc), add to the fact that self-sc'ing (not even including any potential MB's) can grab enough hate to where we get shot to the head of the hate list, and we don't have the def and life to always survive until someone else gets the hate back.

As much as I agree with you that Cure V wouldn't set us too far apart from RDM or SMN (I imagine it'd set us farther away from SMN, since they couldn't get Cure V), it makes it to where you don't "need a whm in abyssea" to be able to take on more than the random mobs.
____________________________
The wise warrior will fight until he can no longer win; while the foolish warrior will never stop fighting.

MouserRDM wrote:

People think Dark Knights are the emo-boys of FFXI.

They ain't got nothin' on us Blue Mages. We kill monsters, eat their souls, and we don't even use barbecue sauce. And we're still hungry.

We're bastards.
#3 Aug 24 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
I love immanence and sc'ing on my sch! I played around with it some on EP mobs in bost<tab> (the sewers under Sandy) and then in Aby on shrooms. Both times will working on my Thunder staff. Typically I prefer blm -ga burning down mobs, but I wanted to bring out sch and play around. I actually found that sc'ing the shrooms with a MB was more efficient then -ga farming for that particular trial because they link funny (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't) and they path horribly. I also use sch on our duo/trio limbus runs, because when a mob uses its 2hr, I can switch arts and sc them out of invincible/perfect dodge.

However, I still think Cure V would be a nice addition to the job and allow us more utility in the LA side.

I usually on sc/mb when the mob is low enough that it will die, so I'm not worried about the hate issues. But I do agree with Vestrivan, that in normal pt situations, the chances of landing a sc are slim to none because of the melee DDs going off on ws constantly. On NMs, I can see the advantage when it is time to burn it down after proc, but the chances of being there on sch anyway is limited. Unless you are in a large ls that has all procs covered, then maybe you can come out on sch to help burn the mob down after the sit and wait game. Even in the newer content (Voidwatch, Neo-dynamis) you aren't looking to kill stuff fast, you are looking to proc it constantly, but puts sc'ing in the background.
____________________________
~Elspetta~
99 BLM WHM RDM SCH SMN BRD THF DNC WAR
Phoenix
~~Remember the Titans~~
#4 Aug 24 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,041 posts
True skill-chain and magic burst scenarios are a lost art these days. I remember when people actually used to prepare for those and plan in advance who was doing what in what order to successfully achieve a skill-chain and which element was needed for a magic burst afterwards. These days I'm convinced some people are actually surprised and worried they did something wrong when they pull one off by accident ^^

The argument behind Cure V is and always has been that if you're to push the job as a hybrid mage job (which essentially is what Scholar is), then you need to at least be able to fill in either role. We'll never be the best healers or the best nukers (well... nuking I suppose is debatable from an efficiency perspective ^^), but we should be able to perform either role in a pinch, and switch on the fly at that. But because we're stuck at Cure IV which is now available on /WHM, our healer abilities aren't worth a **** in endgame because all we bring to the table is a slight MP reduction and slight casting time reduction. Any other mage job can heal about as well as we can, and with sufficient Refresh atmas to ensure you're not using all your MP, our MP reduction in Light Arts doesn't matter either.

As to why we're overlooked? I suspect part of it is still Scholar is one of the least played jobs in the game so you get people who don't know what we're capable of. That, and the fact that the game is all about dedicated jobs at the moment (unless you're low manning something in which case the jobs are very specific). Hybrid jobs aren't getting much of a look in at the moment because people want a person to fill a specific role, not a generalist one, and Scholar, despite our abilities, is still a hybrid mage.
____________________________
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
#5 Aug 24 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Sorry double post


Edited, Aug 24th 2011 10:07pm by Darthmaulll
#6 Aug 24 2011 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
Ok I just got done soloing in La Theine and it looks as though melee weapon skills do not interupt our magical skill chains. Megamaw Mikey popped and someone called for help. I started my self skill chain and before I could finish casting the second spell, a nin and thf both weapon skill in the middle of my skill chain. I was still able to complete my skill chain. It seems that once our skill chain is over, then other characters magic and weapon skills can take effect. Someone ended up magic bursting stun off of my Fragmentation.

As far as us grabing hate, Animus minuo really helps as long as someone else has hate as well. I can see more possibilities for sch to be a very good DD and crowd mitigater but sadly hardly anyone plays this job and getting concrete info on it is near nil.
#7 Aug 24 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,041 posts
Darthmaulll wrote:
I can see more possibilities for sch to be a very good DD and crowd mitigater but sadly hardly anyone plays this job and getting concrete info on it is near nil.


This. As I said, we're not a popular job (according to the last census only Puppetmaster and Corsair had lower percentages of players playing the job) and whenever I do a /sea SCH on Asura, I often see SCH as the least active job, especially at the upper end (there often seems more people at the lower end, I assume because people level SCH as a mage subjob).

But especially at 90 where we get 5 stratagems now, we're a very versatile job, and with access to Refresh and Convert (along with Sublimation of course) we've got quite a large MP pool (charge Sublimation, use it when low on MP, cast Refresh, Convert when you're low again, rinse and repeat). By the time we get to level 99 we'll also have access to Haste from /RDM, so the job still has a lot of potential to it I believe.

Once everyone comes out of Abyssea (it could happen!) I think our popularity will pick up again a bit, but then again, I haven't done any Voidwatch content yet so that may just be wishful thinking.
____________________________
Drusenija - Resident Scholar of Asura
"The game is nothing, the playing of it everything" - Simkin
#8 Aug 25 2011 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
**
480 posts
SCH lack of popularity is not only because of being right now not that useful, but mainly because it's a "new" job, and primarily, a complex one. People are usually very confused about having to constantly use JA to improve our spells performance, the switching between arts, and the necessity of many, many equipment sets for our various spells and the inventory space it requires.

And why do we need Cure V, or a viable alternative? Because we're supposed to be equally proficient in both Light and Dark arts, and currently, we are proficient enough in Dark Arts (Almost as good as BLM on single target nukes) but totally subpar in Light Arts (We are as proficient or less as healers as a SMN/WHM, with the same tier of Cure, less refresh gear, and even less available cure potency gear). We do need Cure V, or a viable alternative, to be at least considered an option for main healing when no WHM is available. We should be worse than a WHM at main healing, but we should be an option over "No WHM, no event".

Edited, Aug 25th 2011 12:07pm by TaimMeich
____________________________
Frejan - Ragnarok
SCH 99 PUP 99 WAR 99 RDM 49 NIN 49 SAM 49
Windurst Rank 10, ZM+CoP: The Last Verse, ToAU: Eternal Mercenary, WotG Champion of the Dawn.
#9 Aug 28 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
947 posts
Quote:
I feel that healing in parties most of the time does nothing to set Sch apart from Rdm and even Smn as far as them being backup healers.


I don't think SMN is really considered a /whm back up healer anymore. Just nitpicking.

And I think a lot of people do self-skillchain, I've seen many people mention it, especially when it was new of course.

And since you are talking more of the dark arts aspect of sch and its potential, and someone mentioned sch popularity, here is my thoughts on that.

SCH vs BLM was always kind of a balance of "BLM hits harder, but SCH outlasts them". Abyssea greatly changed that.

Now SCH can still last longer than BLM, but BLM can keep up with minikin, temporary items, and restores. Between Ga-3 and -Ja spells, BLM is pretty devastating in Abyssea. Also, BLM has many more procs than SCH does. So now the balance has shifted more in BLMs favor, though SCH is still a good job.

So BLM is more of a bandwagon job these days, like in the past, which kind of takes away from other jobs like SCH.

The same can be said of WHM, really. WHM now overpowers any other healing job.

BLM and WHM have become so good at their job compared to other mages, that the more hybrid jobs (RDM and SCH) get kind of left behind.

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 1:16pm by Annalise
#10 Sep 14 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
I don't believe Sch isn't being overlooked. It's amazing in all the right ways. It's a hybrid job that does exactly whats it's supposed to do. I used to be blm, and it hurt so bad when i leveled sch, and realized how much better it truly was (this is pre abyssea). We have strategems that increase the potency of cure spells. That means in abyssea our cure IV is more than Rdm. The reason i said in abyssea is we have atma refresh is abyssea so our mp proficiency doesn't matter so much anymore, honestly there's so much refresh outside now it doesn't matter either way. We now have blink and stoneskin. I mean think about it. I remember when i was first leveling sch, changin to /rdm to give enspells, blink, and stoneskin to the entire party. Then trying /nin and i remember playing with my friends, and they were all talking so much crap. You see rdm needs /whm when they main heal for the remove negative effect spells, sch uses addendem: white. So here i am /nin with all the spells i need to main heal, and enough mp to DD a little, as well as the ability to pull hate off the tank when his shadows dropped, tank for 6 shadows, that lets him get ichi/ni back up. At the end of the party no one could believe it. Whm, rdm, blm, what are those? we have a sch!

Blm has gotten the major update it needed. It's gotten it's mp problems more or less fixed, a way to lose enmity, an abilitly that lets it tank, many other things that doesn't make it worse than sch anymore. If we got cure V, then we'd be doing the same thing we did to blm back pre abyssea. I love sch, truly it's great, but i'm a sch, the day i want to be Whm, i'll level whm.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#11 Sep 14 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
Jack of All Trades
******
29,231 posts
Quote:
We have strategems that increase the potency of cure spells. That means in abyssea our cure IV is more than Rdm.


That's like being proud of the fact that you could run a race faster than all the other participants in the Special Olympics, who are stuck with using wheelchairs.
#12 Sep 14 2011 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
If we got cure V, then we'd be doing the same thing we did to blm back pre abyssea.

Cure V isn't the only thing WHM has over RDM and SCH in the healing department.

riznobi wrote:
I love sch, truly it's great, but i'm a sch, the day i want to be Whm, i'll level whm.

I've heard people say that about tanking on NIN. "If I wanted to tank, I'd go level PLD." The game has room for more than just one tank job. It should also have room for more than just one main healer job.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#13 Sep 14 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
I have way too much to add, so sorry if it's a little jumbled, or off.

-Fynlar
LOL. Okay first off you basically said rdm sucks (put it in same area as a mentally challenged person). I know that's not what you meant, i'm stretching it like you did my statement. I understand if we got cure 5, we'd be able to do a lot more. That some people look at a hibrid as being equal to both parts, but that isn't the case.

hy·brid (hbrd)
n.
1. Genetics The offspring of genetically dissimilar parents or stock, especially the offspring produced by breeding plants or animals of different varieties, species, or races.
2.
a. Something of mixed origin or composition, such as a word whose elements are derived from different languages.
b. Something having two kinds of components that produce the same or similar results, such as a vehicle powered by both an electric motor and an internal combustion engine as sources of power for the drive train.

Any job other than Whm can only cure for X health (cure 4), sch can do x+50%. 50% isn't something to say is gimp. Rapture increases curing spells by 50%. You can do this every 48 seconds at level 90. I think we achieve 2.b. on being a hybrid, we have simular results to blm/whm, but we arent equal to them.

Svlyons i'm sorry if i sounded like i wrote something that sounded like i didn't want to cure as sch. I remember smn's only healing back in the day, and hearing how much they hated it. I love my nin, i love tanking, i even love tanking on my war, rdm, dnc,even mana wall with blm, and /nin on sch. If someone let me back in the day i would of tanked blm/nin at 75. The thing is i dont want to only cure. (and i know we wouldn't just cure, but i dont want some random bad leader to try and tell me how to play my job, if we got better cure's some people will try to tell us to cure only, also there are a lot of bad sch out there, and they diminish people's belief in us, anyone remember drk from a few years ago?) I don't want to take whm's spot in the game. I want to be a sch as only sch's understand. The preparation involved in being sch is huge, way more than most jobs. I want to be a DD, i want to cure, i want to tank when needed, then let the tank get hate again. sch is a full understanding of the game, you have to act before your enemy. sch's two hour is amazing. Doesn't anyone see how strong sch is? we honestly shouldn't be able to complain. we're almost as good as rdm enfeeble, blm isn't, yet we put out blm damage with less mp. we cure better than any job except whm. Rdm is the jack of all trades, yet we're the king of mages, yet that's not good enough. look at all our strengths.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#14 Sep 14 2011 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
I didn't mean i wouldn't cure as sch, or that sch shouldn't cure, i just meant we have so much going for us, why not let other jobs have their own perks? whm was passed up over for rdm, i think SE doesn't want that to happend again. We can cure better than any other job with the exception of whm. Just listen to what i say, think about it. Please don't try to pick apart the little things. if you honeslty didn't think sch was good enough, you'd be on whm or blm. amiright?
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#15 Sep 14 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Okay last think i'm going to post without someone else posting first. >.> Any body here solo at all? there were certain things blm could solo at 75, and no one else could, same with rdm. Then sch came and it could solo what only blm or rdm could prior to that, more efficient than either could. Sch has a toolbox, mage jobs don't. In fact it has so many that a lot are simply ignored. If you say that a certain ability is bad because another job has a higher tier spell, well it doesn't make sense. It would be eaiser hitting a macro and casting cure V, but that's not sch. We have to think. Why not complain we dont have stun? I would love a stun on Sch. Honestly i'm jumping on this rant with you all! i say we make blm useless too, give us aspir2, and well... i'd say AM2's but they suck, so they should give us tier 6's and cure V, then whm's will be overlooked too, and rdm would be useless. well. since we're making rdm useless too, i say we just get their refresh2, and their fastcast trait. With /whm we get access to haste spell, but whatevs thats for a party. Maybe let us learn gravity?

Sch is good as it is. Honeslty if whm got something to make it better, and rdm too, then i could see sch getting cure V, but untill that point it would make sch too strong.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#16 Sep 14 2011 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
Jack of All Trades
******
29,231 posts
Quote:
-Fynlar
LOL. Okay first off you basically said rdm sucks (put it in same area as a mentally challenged person). I know that's not what you meant, i'm stretching it like you did my statement.


As far as healing goes? Yeah, that's exactly what I meant.

Being able to outheal a RDM nowadays is absolutely nothing notable. SMN can heal better than RDM.
#17 Sep 14 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
It's still not a valid point at all. let's go back to the special olympics arguement then. Sch is a job that's running a marathon, we do it all, just because someone runs faster than us doesn't mean we suck. We swim, and bike faster. You are stuck on one event and saying we arent good because of it, but thats not true. we still have our strong points. I understand if we ran 6 minute miles, then we'd be done with the marathon while everyone else is starting the third event.

I do understand that blm/whm has cure IV, but they dont have gravity or fast cast trait without /rdm. That any job subbing whm has cure's as strong as Sch, but that's not all we are. It doesn't define sch. We are a toolbox, if sch main cure's they use their strategems, that get replaced every 48 seconds. I guess i feel our toolbox overcomes any shortcoming our job has. When abyssea is over, sch will be on top again. I have a friend who loved whm, and blm. He wouldn't pick up sch, untill i convinced him, and he never played whm or blm again. He did more damage than any blm, and cured better than any 2 whm's, outside abyssea mind you. I understand abysite makes us look weaker than we are, but seriously we arent.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 10:03pm by riznobi
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#18 Sep 14 2011 at 8:29 PM Rating: Excellent
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
if you honeslty didn't think sch was good enough, you'd be on whm or blm. amiright?

You are right. I started out with 75 BLM. Then I leveled SCH to 75. I noticed that they both had unique strengths and weaknesses when it came to nuking, and I enjoyed playing both and found situations to use both.

Then came Abyssea. I got both to 90. At which point, I couldn't find a reason to use SCH over BLM. The times I would use SCH was because we needed a healer.

Recently, I got WHM up to 90. Since playing WHM, I see just how much SCH lags behind WHM in healing. I currently haven't found a reason to play SCH. I'm either playing BLM, or WHM, or a melee job.

Even outside of Abyssea, I don't think I've ever been tempted to play SCH lately. When my friend comes along as BLM, I don't find myself thinking, "I wish he had SCH leveled to 90, he could be more effective with what we're doing right now."
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#19 Sep 14 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
I do understand that blm/whm has cure IV, but they dont have gravity or fast cast trait without /rdm.

When the level cap goes up to 96+, BLM will be able to sub RDM and have access to Cure IV.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#20 Sep 14 2011 at 11:28 PM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
******
29,231 posts
I'm only talking about the healing issue, here. I'm not saying SCH is useless as a whole or anything.

Right now, WHM is so far ahead in the healing game that it feels like everyone else is just sharing last place. My point was, being able to outheal a RDM isn't that notable. RDM is really a terrible healer. The only thing that made it any good as a healer in the past was massive stores of MP, which is something every job now has access to. You might as well be arguing about how you're able to **** farther against the wind than a RDM can, because that's about how useful non-WHM healers are nowadays.

Quote:
He did more damage than any blm, and cured better than any 2 whm's,


I don't know about the BLM, but I don't believe that other part for a second. Unless this SCH was only comparing himself to WHMs that were asleep, that absolutely should never happen. Your anecdote says more about the quality of WHMs your friend hangs out with rather than about what SCH's healing capabilities are.

Edited, Sep 15th 2011 1:31am by Fynlar
#21 Sep 15 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
My mistake Fynlar, I have so much to say, i jump around without making myself clear. This was pre abyssea. 75 cap was still in effect, and yes we'd go to the mount zhayolm, and as blm he could take half of a pudding's hp with a nuke. After that, he played as sch, and honestly he did more damage than any blm there, with the exception of one blm named quasit. Today his sch or blm cant do anything. He wont play on them anymore, so in al honesty it no longer holds true. He considers his blm/sch character a mule, a reminder of the old days. He has all af1+1, all af2, not all +1, but some, very close to everything. In mount zhayolm a blm could get a 10% damage bonus from an elemental obi, sch gets 20% because they can change the weather around them. Blm got 10 MAB bonus when nuking thunder/ice (if that's what you merited, maybe you merited something else, but it still stands that blm was strong 2/8 days), so really sch pulled ahead when it nuked 6/8 days, otherwise yeah it was close. This covers a little of the gap between a sch and blm. He also has the ability to use Ebullience, a strategem ability that boosts the spells potency another 20%.

As far as whm i know this no longer holds true today. When you look at everything sch has as tools, he honestly wasn't better than 2 a little over exageration, but he came close to what 2 whm's could cure. This is at level 75, remember. you have parsimony to halve mp cost, and sublimation for 4 mp a tick back then.

Honestly what i do remember about sch, i can understand why SE would be hesitant to give it power closer to whm's. 75 sch was a powerhouse, way too strong for what it should have been in my opinion, and i was a sch.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#23 Sep 15 2011 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
As far as whm i know this no longer holds true today. When you look at everything sch has as tools, he honestly wasn't better than 2 a little over exageration, but he came close to what 2 whm's could cure. This is at level 75, remember. you have parsimony to halve mp cost, and sublimation for 4 mp a tick back then.

Before WHM got Afflatus, SCH might have been viewed as an overall better healer than WHM. But after Afflatus, WHM became the favored healer for meaningful fights, while SCH was a favored healer for easy stuff like meritting on colibri. A big part of what made SCH so wonderful in those merits parties is Accession Stoneskin, which WHM can now do when subbing SCH.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#24 Sep 15 2011 at 6:33 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
I do understand that blm/whm has cure IV, but they dont have gravity or fast cast trait without /rdm.

When the level cap goes up to 96+, BLM will be able to sub RDM and have access to Cure IV.


I understand next level cap this statement is true. I dont understand what you meant by it. i guess unless you say something else, i'll just take it as trying to be informative, because it doesn't disprove anything i said.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#25 Sep 15 2011 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
I do understand that blm/whm has cure IV, but they dont have gravity or fast cast trait without /rdm.

When the level cap goes up to 96+, BLM will be able to sub RDM and have access to Cure IV.

I understand next level cap this statement is true. I dont understand what you meant by it. i guess unless you say something else, i'll just take it as trying to be informative, because it doesn't disprove anything i said.

It means that the flexibility that you claim is SCH's strength is slowly disappearing. Unless SE adds stuff to SCH over the next two level cap raises, SCH is going to continue to lag behind BLM and WHM. SCH hasn't really been getting anything to help bridge the gap.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#26 Sep 16 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
45 posts
Okay thank you for finally being more specific. I completely understand that. Sch is getting weaker than it was, that is very true. It's just hard to understand what someone means when they take a little piece of what you originally say, and what seems a random comment into the mix.

I agree with you all 100%. With every update it seems sch is getting weaker, every piece of refresh SE throws into the game makes sch less impressive. The thing is compared to other jobs in the mage section of the game, sch isn't the best at anything. It's not really #1 at anything. I don't think it was meant to be. It is secod best, and in the one or two circumstances it's not second it's for sure third, and that is huge. Sch stil has it's merits, i think it's way more balanced than at level 75, and some people take that as being weak.

There are still a lot of situations i would take sch to events. I lowman, or solo a lot, and from this standpoint sch is great. My blm at 75 was mising less than 9 enfeebling skill, or he would of had every piece of enfeeble gear/merits. There were certain nms that i couldn't count on landing certain enfeeble spells 100% of the time. The thing is if you have a rdm, a blm, and a whm sch doesn't look so hot. The thing is if i say i can go whm, blm, rdm or sch, and i'm the only mage, sch is my job of choice.

gotta go. more later....
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#28 Sep 16 2011 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
The thing is compared to other jobs in the mage section of the game, sch isn't the best at anything. It's not really #1 at anything. I don't think it was meant to be. It is secod best, and in the one or two circumstances it's not second it's for sure third, and that is huge. Sch stil has it's merits, i think it's way more balanced than at level 75, and some people take that as being weak.

I disagree that being 2nd or 3rd in itself is "huge". There are 20 jobs in this game, but most of those jobs can't be thought of as nukers or healers. So it's not like SCH is #2 out of hundreds of choices. It's #2 out of very few choices. And the problem isn't that SCH is 2nd to BLM or WHM. The issue is the gap between #1 and #2 in those nuking and healing roles.

SCH is probably closer to BLM than it is to WHM. SCH is basically a BLM-lite right now. It nukes a little more efficiently than BLM and can backup heal just a hair more efficiently than BLM. But calling SCH a WHM-lite would be a huge stretch. SCH needs much more help from SE on the healing front than it does on the nuking front.

I don't see Kaustra and Embrava being a huge boost either. I can see it giving SCH additional "niche" opportunities, much like Odin and Alexander give SMN the spotlight in a very small number of situations.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#29 Sep 16 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
There are 20 jobs in this game. Being second best at something is huge. Your points take vague examples and you try to skew things to your point. Even if we take your arguement that there are few mage jobs, we'd need an actual number. If there are only 2, then yes second sucks. 3 jobs, it's better, and it keeps going. We are comparing at the very least four mage jobs, correct? Sch, Blm, Rdm, Whm. There are a few jobs we can add to this arguement, and they drop sch in rank some areas, while making them higher in others. Smn, blu, pld, drk, pup. Paladin can sure. **** i've been in a party where we had to have pld main cure back in the day. As far as pup goes, i've heard it can outdamage blm. If that's the truth everyone who's leveled blm should just delete their guy cause they are #2 as far as nuke damage, and 4th or lower in everything else?

The thing sch has going for them is they are second strongest in enfeebling magic, that means they can sub for a rdm where blm couldn't. While doing this they can cure, subing for a whm, sure not as good, but better than the other choices. The last thing they are second best is magic damage(compared to blm not pup).

In two man viewpoint: My friend wants to go as a tank i can cure him. If my friend jumps on his blm, i can also go offensive, but i have more enfeebling magic so therefore i can keep what we are fighting under control way more easy then if i went blm too. I understand in an alliance fighting something that only needs 2 people sch doesn't look so good. When i'm duoing sch is 3 in 1 package, a little weaker than any of the three main mage jobs, but able to fill any of their roles.

You also have to understand we might not be in abyssea at level 99. that means less hp all around, sch ability to conserve their mp will make it better again.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#30 Sep 16 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
312 posts
Quote:
The thing sch has going for them is they are second strongest in enfeebling magic, that means they can sub for a rdm where blm couldn't. While doing this they can cure, subing for a whm, sure not as good, but better than the other choices. The last thing they are second best is magic damage(compared to blm not pup).


I don't know what game your playing, but a sch is not subbing for a rdm. Inside abyssea you don't need either, but outside rdm is easily ahead with refresh II. They aren't subbing for a whm either because sch's isn't even in whm's league. The only thing I agree with is that sch is good magic damage, but it still not taking over for a blm anyway because of lack of procs.

Quote:
In two man viewpoint: My friend wants to go as a tank i can cure him. If my friend jumps on his blm, i can also go offensive, but i have more enfeebling magic so therefore i can keep what we are fighting under control way more easy then if i went blm too. I understand in an alliance fighting something that only needs 2 people sch doesn't look so good. When i'm duoing sch is 3 in 1 package, a little weaker than any of the three main mage jobs, but able to fill any of their roles.


If your friend wants to tank your not going to be curing him on anything difficult in abyssea unless you switch to whm (same goes for outside abyssea in the new content, voidwatch). Blm's enfeebling magic also isn't as bad as you are making it sound. What exactly are you duoing?

Emps : whm
+1 : a majority can be done with a blm/whm
+2 : blm and whm
Gear : whm

Quote:
You also have to understand we might not be in abyssea at level 99. that means less hp all around, sch ability to conserve their mp will make it better again.


Well we have less hp in voidwatch and sch still can't keep up. Voidwatch nms hit extremely hard, have dangerous AoEs and the battle lasts a while. All of that is extremely bad for sch. It just won't be able to keep up. My whm w/ either refresh or ballad never runs out of mp due to those buffs, refresh gear, +2 legs, /sch or /rdm and the temps in the event.

Sch healing is just at a terrible place right now. Along with the lack of procs in both voidwatch and abyssea I have a hard time convincing myself to get on the job.
#31 Sep 16 2011 at 3:00 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
honestly it's how you play the game. You put that little bit more power over anything else. You want to Cure as hard as #1, and heal as much as #1. This game isn't all about that. When all i played on was blm, i used to solo despot, and duo most sky Gods, i used to solo temenos and apoloyon. The ones blm's could. I think N and NW? it's been a long time. After i got all my af1+1, i started helping my friends get it. My friends all blms started arguing about which equipment set was best for blm. They all picked a different set. Damage, enfeebling, and standing. One blm wrote ask him, he'll tell you it's enfeebling, i've known him the longest, and he worked hardest on that set. The next said no way look at his damage. The last one said he loves his herald gaiters, he never takes them off. ever. I didn't answer. After a while my friend i knew the longest asked me in a tell "what's the most important set for a blm." I didn't even hesitate "Fastcast" i replied.

My friend was dumbfounded. He just didn't understand. Why fastcast? I explained my logic to him and that day he started working on his fastcast set. "you see i explained to him. With my fastcast set, and aspir every 10 mins in temenos i get a little over 1,000 mp more than you."

For my blm taru that was almost a full mp bar. It's free nukes, higher chance to win. I would never tell you to skimp on the other gear, but there is more than just pure damage, and enfeebling. Sch is my playstyle. I Don't need it to change.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#32 Sep 16 2011 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
312 posts
This has nothing to do with your playstyle. Sch cannot heal well at all. It also can't proc so its not replacing a blm. The difference is atleast the dark arts side functions. The magic damage side is fine, but the healing side is not. You cannot not do a majority of new events wihout a whm.
#33 Sep 16 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Refresh 2 is 6 a tick, and with sublimation a sch can hit 5 a tick. Rdm gets ref 2 body, sch gets 1. I believe sch can wear everything else rdm can? so after everything is said and done a sch gets roughly 2 less mp a tick, with ability to save more mp over time. I understand it's not exactly that, but lets just say for sake of time its about 2. Did anyone play this game prior to abyssea? sch could sleep/bind/gravity anything a rdm could, blm couldn't. If we have mobs that resist magic again, than your two choices are sch or better than sch rdm. I understand blm can do alot, especially a greatly geared one, but there is a huge difference, just not in todays soft ffxi game. I want a toguh game again, I want ffxi to evolve into what it used to be during the 75 cap.

I understand Nothing cures as good as whm, but when you have to make do, you do. I saw a warrior straight tank kirin at level 75. You make do. That's when something amazing happens. And yes i do get the point that there are some things nothing would do for but a whm, and i dont think thats a bad thing. I just want to express that sch is good the way it is. It would be better with cure V, but sch will live on without it. just because it's a hybrid doesn't mean it should get certain spells. I can see the arguement that rdm and sch should both get cure V, but not just sch.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#34 Sep 16 2011 at 3:20 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
Sch doesn't need to replace whm. It doesnt't matter that it doesn't stand up to whm. it shouldn't. If you have a problem with that go to events as whm. One day of really hard grinding you can get 90 whm. Problem solved.

Edited, Sep 16th 2011 5:22pm by riznobi
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#35 Sep 16 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Anyways i'm done with this thread. It doesn't pay to argue with people who are stuck on needing a job thats pretty well rounded to do more. I do have say good job Darthmaull on your original post. It was a good read seeing someone else experimenting and enjoying sch versus saying it needs cureV.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#36 Sep 16 2011 at 3:49 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
312 posts
Except refresh II is castable on others and can go up to 7/tic with +2 legs
#37 Sep 17 2011 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
947 posts
riznobi wrote:
Refresh 2 is 6 a tick, and with sublimation a sch can hit 5 a tick. Rdm gets ref 2 body, sch gets 1. I believe sch can wear everything else rdm can? so after everything is said and done a sch gets roughly 2 less mp a tick, with ability to save more mp over time. I understand it's not exactly that, but lets just say for sake of time its about 2. Did anyone play this game prior to abyssea? sch could sleep/bind/gravity anything a rdm could, blm couldn't. If we have mobs that resist magic again, than your two choices are sch or better than sch rdm. I understand blm can do alot, especially a greatly geared one, but there is a huge difference, just not in todays soft ffxi game. I want a toguh game again, I want ffxi to evolve into what it used to be during the 75 cap.



If you're talking about the mp/tick SCH gets from sublimation, it's much more than 5/tick. Base at 90 is 7/tick, and with gear it can go up to 11/tick. With the Emp+2 body, that's up to 10/tick + 1 refresh. In an argument about refresh vs. sublimation, that's kind of a big deal...
#38 Sep 19 2011 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Awesome. Thanks annalise for the info. I had no clue sublimation got more than 3 naturally. I cant remember the last time i havent had Stoneskin up while using sublimation. I've seen you on a few other threads, thanks for all the great knowledge on scholar, keep up the great work, lol.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#39 Sep 19 2011 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
947 posts
riznobi wrote:
Awesome. Thanks annalise for the info. I had no clue sublimation got more than 3 naturally. I cant remember the last time i havent had Stoneskin up while using sublimation. I've seen you on a few other threads, thanks for all the great knowledge on scholar, keep up the great work, lol.


If it follows the same trend, at level 95 each tick should be:

2 HP -> 8 MP
#40 Sep 24 2011 at 12:46 AM Rating: Good
Revolving Door Inspector
Avatar
*****
12,728 posts
Fynlar wrote:
SMN can heal better than RDM.


Smiley: laughSmiley: lolSmiley: laugh
____________________________
FFXI: Exodus @ San d'Oria since November 19, 2003, Siren Server
FFXIV: Turk Kalahai @ Gridania, Balmung Server
Rift: Kalahai @ Sanctum, Faeblight Server
Exo @ YouTube | Exo @ Tumblr | Exo @ Twitter | Cheese
#41 Sep 24 2011 at 6:12 AM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
If that's supposed to be a 'clever' way of voicing disagreement with the quoted statement, the joke is definitely on you..
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#42 Sep 24 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
85 posts
I think the problem here is not that SCH can't heal as well as a WHM but, rather, that a SCH can't heal as well as they can nuke. When the cap was still at 75 SCHs could heal as as well as they could nuke. With the raise of the level cap SCH have maintained their ability to nuke in the same relative position it was at at 75. However their healing ability has fallen far below their ability to nuke, instead of being relatively equal as it was at 75.
____________________________
No matter what level you are there's a rabbit that can kill you
80 Alchemy 29 Smithing 24 Goldsmithing 10 Cooking
Guild Items: Concoction, Iatrochemistry, Trituration, Anima Synthesis
#43 Sep 29 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
I really wish i could remember where this post i read was, but i don't, it's probably on the dnc thread on here, but i'm too lazy to look for it right now. It was when dnc first came out. It was written by a dnc who wanted to tank as dnc, and so many people said so many negative things. Some of the things people said was there was no damage mitigation, that you couldn't heal yourself solo, that you still needed a healer. The auther's return arguement was that a dnc shouldn't have to. Pld can't main heal and tank, it's the same with dnc. Nin has damage mitigation, but a dnc's cure's help with damage. The truth is dnc did make a great tank, it just needed support, the same as any tank, the same as any healer.

Sch is a good healer, sure i can't main heal like a whm, but when i go sch, and i end up main healing, usually i can cure mostly by myself, but i do have help. My nin/dnc tank can help by curing himself a little to help, the blm's can help cure. Also if your not doing it a stun rotation works great. Drk/dnc has two stuns now, and can throw a cure waltze at the tank every now and then. Seriously people, it's not impossible.
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#44 Sep 30 2011 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
Quote:
Drk/dnc has two stuns now, and can throw a cure waltze at the tank every now and then.


Smiley: dubious
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#45 Sep 30 2011 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
372 posts
riznobi wrote:
Drk/dnc has two stuns now, and can throw a cure waltze at the tank every now and then

Technically: they can have three, but I'd only trust one of those, and that one costs mp. Besides, I really don't think many DRK's (unless they like their tanks) would be willing to sacrifice their tp (a potential 50tp) to give their tank some hp, which could be taken off pretty easily, depending on the mob

riznobi wrote:
Also if your not doing it a stun rotation works great
.
I think a stun rotation (coming from at least 1 blu) would do wonders to help you heal...

riznobi wrote:
Sch is a good healer, sure i can't main heal like a whm, but when i go sch, and i end up main healing, usually i can cure mostly by myself, but i do have help. My nin/dnc tank can help by curing himself a little to help, the blm's can help cure

I'm glad you have ppl that are willing to go out of their way to help you, but not everyone is so lucky...

riznobi wrote:
I really wish i could remember where this post i read was, but i don't, it's probably on the dnc thread on here, but i'm too lazy to look for it right now. It was when dnc first came out. It was written by a dnc who wanted to tank as dnc, and so many people said so many negative things. Some of the things people said was there was no damage mitigation, that you couldn't heal yourself solo, that you still needed a healer. The auther's return arguement was that a dnc shouldn't have to. Pld can't main heal and tank, it's the same with dnc. Nin has damage mitigation, but a dnc's cure's help with damage. The truth is dnc did make a great tank, it just needed support, the same as any tank, the same as any healer.

I do agree with this, that most jobs do need some sort of support (i.e. whm's need some sort of refresh), but I think that we shouldn't have to either need a whm to heal everyone, or need other ppl, who are supposed to be doing other things, do help do part of our job; especially now, since most jobs have now become more self-sufficient in keeping themselves and others alive. We aren't asking for the highest tier cure, so we can be main heal (leave that to whm, since that is their job description), but we want the ability to say (and I believe I have noted this earlier in the thread) "if a whm is unavailable, we can still do events/nms". It is rather frustrating when an nm takes off 300+ damage per hit (and double attack frequently), and you got a 500hp heal. That's not even including if the mob decides to use a damaging tp move (which they all have, and hurts a heck of a lot more than their normal attacks).

EDIT: almost forgot to mention that, even with rapture, I can only spike my cure to around 800, and if a mob has a tp move that hits everyone, it really kills our strategems (either having to use 1 charge to make it AoE, or many charges for rapture for each cure 4 on each person). Not to metion the hate spike from a combonation of healing that much to a number of ppl and using the strategems.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 10:03am by Vestrivan
____________________________
The wise warrior will fight until he can no longer win; while the foolish warrior will never stop fighting.

MouserRDM wrote:

People think Dark Knights are the emo-boys of FFXI.

They ain't got nothin' on us Blue Mages. We kill monsters, eat their souls, and we don't even use barbecue sauce. And we're still hungry.

We're bastards.
#46 Sep 30 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
I really wish i could remember where this post i read was, but i don't, it's probably on the dnc thread on here, but i'm too lazy to look for it right now. It was when dnc first came out. It was written by a dnc who wanted to tank as dnc, and so many people said so many negative things. Some of the things people said was there was no damage mitigation, that you couldn't heal yourself solo, that you still needed a healer. The auther's return arguement was that a dnc shouldn't have to. Pld can't main heal and tank, it's the same with dnc. Nin has damage mitigation, but a dnc's cure's help with damage. The truth is dnc did make a great tank, it just needed support, the same as any tank, the same as any healer.

Are you trying to compare this current debate over SCH to a debate over DNC? Regardless of how good of a tank DNC turned out to be, this is hardly a good comparison to make. You said the discussion took place when DNC first came out. How long has SCH been out? People aren't doubting SCH's ability to heal because the job is so new that no one has had a chance to explore its potential.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#47 Sep 30 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
I really wish i could remember where this post i read was, but i don't, it's probably on the dnc thread on here, but i'm too lazy to look for it right now. It was when dnc first came out. It was written by a dnc who wanted to tank as dnc, and so many people said so many negative things. Some of the things people said was there was no damage mitigation, that you couldn't heal yourself solo, that you still needed a healer. The auther's return arguement was that a dnc shouldn't have to. Pld can't main heal and tank, it's the same with dnc. Nin has damage mitigation, but a dnc's cure's help with damage. The truth is dnc did make a great tank, it just needed support, the same as any tank, the same as any healer.

Are you trying to compare this current debate over SCH to a debate over DNC? Regardless of how good of a tank DNC turned out to be, this is hardly a good comparison to make. You said the discussion took place when DNC first came out. How long has SCH been out? People aren't doubting SCH's ability to heal because the job is so new that no one has had a chance to explore its potential.


No i wasn't. I was relating sch main healing to dnc tanking, and how people are so negative about it. They both work, a little different then people were used to, they just need support. I think i summed that up in the end of my statement pretty much exactly

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 3:54pm by riznobi
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#48 Sep 30 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Default
45 posts
I think i am very fortunate. I play with some of the best players i know. Many of them i actually know in real life, I think it cuts out on the drama of things, sometimes it adds a lot though. The thing is we all have played many games together prior to ffxi, and we proabably will keep going. I'm typically a mage, one of my friends is a always a warrior, or a tank type job, one of my friends is either the most broken job, or funniest depending on how he feels. I guess they understand i want to be sch not whm, and if we dont have a whm that day that's fine. we're still going to win, even if that means the nin subs dnc and has to helpcure himself. You see instead of saying i'm a specific job, and this is how i play, we evolve, we have that ability. Instead of sayin man i'm a DD, i'm not going to toss a curing walze at the tank. They realize that if they don't the tank dies, and if the tank dies not only are they more than likely going to die, but they just let one of their best friends die.

I understand that sch could heal better with a higher level cure spell, i get that. But it's not as simple as just giving sch cure v. If we do that, then whm isn't needed as much. Currently my low man group CAN survive without a Whm, and if we can then giving every other mage cure V, will eliminate the need for whm.

Think about how you play the game. Sure in a pure zerg situation which is ideal whm is what you will use, but a sch with support will work, yes it takes away a little zerg, but seriously this game isn't that hard anymore. who cares if it takes 5 more minutes to kill a boss if you enjoy it, and if you need a whm that bad level it. My friend and i started over new characters less than three months ago, I'm 94 war, and 95 bst, with every other job except blm, rdm, and pld are level 50. He has nin, bst and dnc 95, and maat's caap.

Seriously it takes two days of grinding to go from level 1 to 95, and that's going to abyssea at level 75 or higher.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 4:17pm by riznobi
____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#49 Sep 30 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
svlyons wrote:
riznobi wrote:
I really wish i could remember where this post i read was, but i don't, it's probably on the dnc thread on here, but i'm too lazy to look for it right now. It was when dnc first came out. It was written by a dnc who wanted to tank as dnc, and so many people said so many negative things. Some of the things people said was there was no damage mitigation, that you couldn't heal yourself solo, that you still needed a healer. The auther's return arguement was that a dnc shouldn't have to. Pld can't main heal and tank, it's the same with dnc. Nin has damage mitigation, but a dnc's cure's help with damage. The truth is dnc did make a great tank, it just needed support, the same as any tank, the same as any healer.

Are you trying to compare this current debate over SCH to a debate over DNC? Regardless of how good of a tank DNC turned out to be, this is hardly a good comparison to make. You said the discussion took place when DNC first came out. How long has SCH been out? People aren't doubting SCH's ability to heal because the job is so new that no one has had a chance to explore its potential.

No i wasn't. I was relating sch main healing to dnc tanking, and how people are so negative about it. They both work, a little different then people were used to, they just need support. I think i summed that up in the end of my statement pretty much exactly

You could have made the comparison between SCH and DNC without bringing up some age old thread that came out before people understood DNC well. You obviously brought up that discussion because you were trying to make some kind of argument that because people were wrong at some point in time about DNC in the past, that the people who disagree with you about SCH now are also wrong.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#50 Oct 01 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
45 posts
Svylons you really cant take what i write, and tell me what i meant by it. You are infering that's what i meant, and then telling me i'm wrong. I understood i shouldn't of used any kind of comparison with you, the thing is with almost any comparison their will be differences, that's why they aren't the same exact thing. And just for the record I want to make it very clear that i don't believe the answer is just sch gets cure v. There has to be more, whm has to have it's own high points, that make it worth grabbing over sch or rdm, and realistically i can't see that happening if we get cure V, and nothing else changes. I would love cure V just as much, okay maybe a little less than you. Seriously you were probably going to argue with me on that too. "NO WAY RIZNO, I WOULD LOOOOVVEEE CURE V, you would only love it."




riznobi wrote:
I understand Nothing cures as good as whm, but when you have to make do, you do. I saw a warrior straight tank kirin at level 75. You make do. That's when something amazing happens. And yes i do get the point that there are some things nothing would do for but a whm, and i dont think thats a bad thing. I just want to express that sch is good the way it is. It would be better with cure V, but sch will live on without it. just because it's a hybrid doesn't mean it should get certain spells. I can see the arguement that rdm and sch should both get cure V, but not just sch.


____________________________
Me: I seriously when i'm losing.
Andy: You hate your life.
Me: I'm not losing I lost.
#51 Oct 01 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
****
5,647 posts
riznobi wrote:
And just for the record I want to make it very clear that i don't believe the answer is just sch gets cure v. There has to be more, whm has to have it's own high points, that make it worth grabbing over sch or rdm, and realistically i can't see that happening if we get cure V, and nothing else changes.

Do you have WHM leveled to 90+? Because Cure V isn't the only thing that makes WHM the premier healer in this game.
____________________________
Lyonheart, like Eorzia, will be reborn in FFXIV!

FFXI veteran (Lyonheart and Lakiskline of Lakshmi)
1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 8 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (8)