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Abilities and Spells update notesFollow

#1 Dec 01 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Some things we expected: shell V, break and aero V in add black.
Some things we did not: aquaveil, stoneskin, blink, fire/ice/shock spikes.

New things we get:
Adloquium (whm spell with no descrption)
strat Perpetuance: increases duration of next white magic enhancement spell (composure?)
strat Immanence: allows your next black magic spell to be used as part of a skillchain but not magic burst

Ready go.
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#2 Dec 01 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Native blink, stoneskin and spikes are pure win. SCH becomes a much more accessible SJ for BLMs and our subjob choice can change more. Interested in the new spell.
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#3 Dec 01 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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eldelphia wrote:
Native blink, stoneskin and spikes are pure win. SCH becomes a much more accessible SJ for BLMs and our subjob choice can change more. Interested in the new spell.


It appears to be a regain spell. There is a regain spell at lv88 for SCH in the .dats so this is likely it. Also, with COR receiving a regain roll it makes sense. Let's hope it works with Accession.
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#4 Dec 01 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Sasaraixx wrote:
eldelphia wrote:
Native blink, stoneskin and spikes are pure win. SCH becomes a much more accessible SJ for BLMs and our subjob choice can change more. Interested in the new spell.


It appears to be a regain spell. There is a regain spell at lv88 for SCH in the .dats so this is likely it. Also, with COR receiving a regain roll it makes sense. Let's hope it works with Accession.


I kind of have mixed feelings on it. If it is the regain spell that everyone is talking about then that puts us in a position where we are stuck in light arts using the increased enhance duration + AoE regain for DD parties (depending on duration). And having played mostly whm for the last 3 months I kind of dread trying to be a main healer with only cure 4.
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#5 Dec 01 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Its probably regain. And I hope either it lasts a while. I'm kinda happy that SE has decided to beef up our light arts side, past 70's now there really isnt a reason to not be in darkarts full time. LEast for me, this abyssea partys Im nuking my life away, which...can get boring.

EPIC win on ss and blink being native now. But where the **** does that leave our subs. Luckily rdm is a main of mine so its leveled and i know what it can do. /rdm was primarly for phalanxga, ss, ssga, refresh-ga. But with pld(one of the few jobs that get use out of it) can do it themselves(and rdms being able to do it) the only thing that isnt redundant or come to gain would be convert(which is handy) and refresh. Will /blm return to being the best sub? Spell wise doesnt offer much. But the matk bonus does.

**** I might even /smn now.

(btw sch main should get boost in sublmation)


//

And omg to skillchain spells. eat it blu...eat. it.

Edited, Dec 1st 2010 11:44am by EarthSage
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#6 Dec 01 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I've thought about subjobs for a while now, but I don't see much changing from /redmage. Having /rdm gives as much magic attack bonus as /blm, and will all the way up to 99 (blm mab3 trait is at 50). It also gives access to fast cast, convert, magic defensive bonus, most of the enfeeble spells, and dispel when out of add black. The only thing I see /blm adding is stun, D2, and sleepga.

Honestly I'm more inclined to sub whitemage (red !! triggers, double up on some green !! triggers, -na spells in add black) or ninja (green !! triggers) over blackmage, and that's only if we're in desperate need of coverage.
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#7 Dec 01 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Ahrana wrote:
Well I've thought about subjobs for a while now, but I don't see much changing from /redmage. Having /rdm gives as much magic attack bonus as /blm, and will all the way up to 99 (blm mab3 trait is at 50). It also gives access to fast cast, convert, magic defensive bonus, most of the enfeeble spells, and dispel when out of add black. The only thing I see /blm adding is stun, D2, and sleepga.

Honestly I'm more inclined to sub whitemage (red !! triggers, double up on some green !! triggers, -na spells in add black) or ninja (green !! triggers) over blackmage, and that's only if we're in desperate need of coverage.


Sometimes I wish I could sub SCH on SCH so I could Addendum: White while I Addendum: Black.

Opening up /BLM as a usable sub is nice, but I don't see anything (short of a native MAB trait + Gravity) moving us away from /RDM being the staple sub.
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#8 Dec 02 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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The only things /blm brings to the table are:

Elemental Seal
Stun
Sleepga
Warp/Warp II/Tractor
and elemental debuffs (burn,rasp, etc.)
MABII

What /rdm brings to the table
Gravity
Fast Cast
Convert
Refresh
Dispel
Phalanx
Magic Defence Bonus II(Trait)
Barspells
Enspells
MABII

/whm
Divine Seal
MDBII
Auto Regen
Haste
Flash
Teleport spells (up to Vahzl)
Access to all -na spells without add: light
Curaga II

So unless you're the main healer, in which case /whm would probably win out, /rdm would still (imo) be a better sub in 99% of situations, unless what you're fighting can't be grav'd then either /blm or /nin would be better.
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#9 Dec 02 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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/nin = shadows and stoneskin and spikes at the same time.

yesprz
#10 Dec 03 2010 at 5:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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(btw sch main should get boost in sublmation)

Quote:

- The effectiveness of the scholar ability "Sublimation" in converting HP to MP will increase based on level.
Lv.35: 2HP => 2MP
Lv.45: 2HP => 3MP
Lv.55: 2HP => 4MP
Lv.65: 2HP => 5MP
Lv.75: 2HP => 6MP
Lv.85: 2HP => 7MP


Ask and you shall receive, my friend.
#11 Dec 03 2010 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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They totally pimped SCH... and I was considering dropping it... Not because I don't like it but because it was falling behind!
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#12 Dec 03 2010 at 6:43 AM Rating: Default
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I personally don't like this update for sch. This was more of a buff to blm than it was to sch. Going from blm/rdm to blm/sch is going to cost the blm gravity, convert, phalanx, and later haste. Convert is a big deal and gravity can be important to have for various occasions. But imo blm/sch is much better with its stratagems, dark arts, and being able to cast their own weather on themselves(though they wouldn't get fire and hailstorm until later). And theres not really any other SJ that looks too good for sch compared to /rdm.

Also sch is probably going to get a regain spell and we're going to be moved to light arts on regain duty I bet. But who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and Adloquium will turn out to be useless like giving crit defense up or maybe some immunity to some debuffs.
#13 Dec 03 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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So, you're one of those Scholars that, despite having a job capable in both healing/support and nuking/enfeebling prefer to ignore the healing/support side to only nuke? Good for you. But for those of us that actually leveled SCH for its selling point, that is, being capable of perform several jobs competently, the boost to our healing/support side is more than welcome. And, mind you, we're getting a skillchain with magic stratagem plus Aero IV and Break to our "blow things up" side ;)

I guess you can tell which Scholars are disgrunted ex-BLMs and which ones actually love the whole job :P
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#14 Dec 03 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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TaimMeich wrote:
So, you're one of those Scholars that, despite having a job capable in both healing/support and nuking/enfeebling prefer to ignore the healing/support side to only nuke? Good for you. But for those of us that actually leveled SCH for its selling point, that is, being capable of perform several jobs competently, the boost to our healing/support side is more than welcome. And, mind you, we're getting a skillchain with magic stratagem plus Aero IV and Break to our "blow things up" side ;)

I guess you can tell which Scholars are disgrunted ex-BLMs and which ones actually love the whole job :P


I would love to be able to go into abyssea on scholar and be able to cover main healing for my party solo, but I don't think any cure IV job can do that anymore. Heck, when I play whitemage I sometimes have to alternate between cure V and cure VI just to keep up. The old scholar trick of trying to prevent damage before it happens with phalanx and stoneskinga just doesn't work in there because too much damage is flying around, the only way to cover it is to mp dump people. Unless they give scholars cure V, even if it's in add light only, I don't think they're going to be able to do the job come 99.

And I'm talking about abyssea NM's here, not that trash that people xp on.
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#15 Dec 03 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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Well of course, I expected Cure V around this level, too. But that reinforces the argument of SCH needing more Light arts tools and spells. Dark Arts is being sufficiently covered with the Tier V nukes and the few other additions (the new stratagem, Break...).

When I heal on NMs I also wish I had Cure V, but still managed yesterday to keep around 8 DDs alive (barring doom) against Chloris along with a WHM without problems. Solo, it would have been pretty much impossible, though.
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#16 Dec 03 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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And how did you all miss the 5th strat? I haven't seen anyone mention it!

We get to burn a strat every 48 seconds now, hot ****.
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#17 Dec 03 2010 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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I mentioned it in the thread in General, and btw said it was a stratagem every 40 seconds... running to fix it! :P
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#18 Dec 03 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
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TaimMeich wrote:
So, you're one of those Scholars that, despite having a job capable in both healing/support and nuking/enfeebling prefer to ignore the healing/support side to only nuke? Good for you. But for those of us that actually leveled SCH for its selling point, that is, being capable of perform several jobs competently, the boost to our healing/support side is more than welcome. And, mind you, we're getting a skillchain with magic stratagem plus Aero IV and Break to our "blow things up" side ;)

I guess you can tell which Scholars are disgrunted ex-BLMs and which ones actually love the whole job :P

If I wanted to heal, I would offer to come on my whm, which btw, main heals much easier.

Hybrid jobs don't work too well. SE's idea of a hybrid is to make all the aspects of the job relatively weak (or weak compared to other classes) and what we get is like rdm, nin(from before), pup(from before), dnc(from before), and sch when it was first released. If they buff blm enough, give us regain and its potent enough, we're going on healing/regain duty (just look at rdms, they have access to t4 nukes but I have yet to see a single rdm in an abyssea party help nuke kill). That is the mind set of the ffxi player base. sch is one of the least played jobs. It is one of the newest and it didn't get a huge surge of players like dnc did when dnc got buffed. A lot of players don't know our class very well and don't understand it. A few years ago, players didn't really know how powerful of nukers sch were. It took a while for us to be considered a nuker as well(albeit a slightly weaker version of blm and one that can't aoe nuke). With enough changes, I don't think it would take much for the general playerbase to not consider us nukers anymore, but rather support.

I never get asked to heal a party and haven't since the level cap was 75. I have healed parties when the whm had low mp, disconnected, or died(and my god, if we're talking about abyssea NMs, sch can't really pull that off with cure 4). But our main role right now is to nuke and I'm content with that. What I'm not content with is changing this class to get a regain cycle going, thats why I retired my rdm.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 9:43pm by palomaru
#19 Dec 04 2010 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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A few things:

-The notes say we can store an extra Strategem up to 5 at 90; nothing about reduced recharge, and I wouldn't count on it. I don't care how it's worked up til 75, the notes have been very detailed this time, and I doubt they would've forgot to mention it.

-All of these changes don't change the fact that even though they're showing us a lot of love, we simply can't keep up with WHM and BLM anymore. No Cure V means you can support and maybe backup heal, but for anything substantial Cure V is pretty much a requirement. As for Dark Arts, Atma of the Beyond relegated us to third tier nuker after RDM and BLM, and barring any new Atmas that give it a run for it's money from Heroes, we can expect the gap to only widen from here.

I'm not saying the job is useless or anything, but the gap between our Addenda and the specialists has widened too much for us to seriously compete with them, and the fact that the restrictions in place discourage us from switching between the two for a more hybrid role, has forced my SCH into an unwanted retirement.

It's just a wait and see game at this point to see what kinds of Atma we get from Heroes; normally I'd have no hope, but with all the love SE has showed us so far, there's hope.
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#20 Dec 04 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty amazed by all the updates we're getting... apparently we weren't awesome enough already? This is news to me...

>.> I think New SE loves us... don't tell anyone.
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#21 Dec 04 2010 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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I don't remember who said it, but we shuld get, at some point, a job triat that made unnecessary to use addendum black to use tier IV nukes... After all, RDMs get them for free and we still would need Addendum Black for tier V.

Also, I didn't consider the possibility of not having a reduced stratagem recast on the 5th stratagem, Lythia, but as you say, sounds very possible. I hope you're wrong ;_;

Finally, yes, we need maybe a bit more of an edge to be on par on the LA and DA aspects in abyssea, but considering now we'll be able to basically ebullience every nuke, I think we will nuke almost as well as good BLMs. I'd love tier II Helix spells added, with enough potency to do very high damage total, but lower than what a BLM could achieve casting nonstop, for example. But probably the most needed addition is Cure V, or a similar tool for healing well enough.
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#22 Dec 04 2010 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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TaimMeich wrote:
I don't remember who said it, but we shuld get, at some point, a job triat that made unnecessary to use addendum black to use tier IV nukes... After all, RDMs get them for free and we still would need Addendum Black for tier V.

Also, I didn't consider the possibility of not having a reduced stratagem recast on the 5th stratagem, Lythia, but as you say, sounds very possible. I hope you're wrong ;_;

Finally, yes, we need maybe a bit more of an edge to be on par on the LA and DA aspects in abyssea, but considering now we'll be able to basically ebullience every nuke, I think we will nuke almost as well as good BLMs. I'd love tier II Helix spells added, with enough potency to do very high damage total, but lower than what a BLM could achieve casting nonstop, for example. But probably the most needed addition is Cure V, or a similar tool for healing well enough.

This is basically what I have been trying to say but strangely I've been getting defaulted, I guess I just paint the bleak picture for our class that no one wants to hear and aren't bright enough about SE. You seem to be assuming we will be getting cure 5, me, I'm not so sure about that. If you look at the Potential new spells 85>99 thread, according to the DATs of the current patch(the one before the latest abyssea) we weren't on the DAT for cure 5. Now obviously this can change in the future seeing as they turned ID 495 = ??? Black Magic [Water] Self cast = 88 SCH into the white magic spell Adloquium SCH Lv.88. We have been getting buffs, but we're still 2nd(or even 3rd) rate DA nukers and our LA is way behind for anything thats worth mentioning (not talking about trash that people exp on, those everyone can go /lvl 1 war and probably still get 10-15k+ exp/hour.

We're still viable as a nuker (mostly because so few jobs fit the role) we could use a bit of a boost or we're going to be left behind probably when the level cap reaches 95 if SE continues like this, the 5th stratagem assuming its 48 seconds per will probably help a bit though. And if Adloquium is going to be a spell that puts us to LAs we're going to be a bit inadequate. If you check the RDM forums they're running into a similar problem with a lack of cure 5.

Also, about the stratagem charge, I'm pretty sure its going to be a 48 second cast. Stratagems are on a 4 minute cooldown and for each stratagem, its always been 240/x seconds per charge where x is how many stratagems you have. If they leave it at 1 minute per charge, the total stratagem cooldown would change from 4 minutes to 5 minutes once you hit 90 and that just seems more unlikely since it would take a lot more to code.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 9:10pm by palomaru
#23LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Dec 04 2010 at 10:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) BLM will have access to Blizzard 4, Blizzard 5, Blizzaga3, and Freeze2. SCH gets... Blizzard 4, Blizzard 3, and Cryohelix. Pre-Scars, my SCH was still outdamaging my BLM both per-nuke and in overall DPS; that changed as soon as I obtained Beyond, and with the coming update BLM will gain an even better Ice spell, while we drop another spell behind in the curve (Water5/Aero5 > Aero5/Blizzard5). It's no contest, SCH couldn't compete in Scars, and Heroes is looking to push us even farther behind. Like I said above, if you want SCH to become relevant again, you'd better join me in hoping for a game-changer Wind atma.
#24 Dec 04 2010 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
BLM will have access to Blizzard 4, Blizzard 5, Blizzaga3, and Freeze2. SCH gets... Blizzard 4, Blizzard 3, and Cryohelix. Pre-Scars, my SCH was still outdamaging my BLM both per-nuke and in overall DPS; that changed as soon as I obtained Beyond, and with the coming update BLM will gain an even better Ice spell, while we drop another spell behind in the curve (Water5/Aero5 > Aero5/Blizzard5). It's no contest, SCH couldn't compete in Scars, and Heroes is looking to push us even farther behind. Like I said above, if you want SCH to become relevant again, you'd better join me in hoping for a game-changer Wind atma.

Quote:
Also, about the stratagem charge, I'm pretty sure its going to be a 48 second cast. Stratagems are on a 4 minute cooldown and for each stratagem, its always been 240/x seconds per charge where x is how many stratagems you have. If they leave it at 1 minute per charge, the total stratagem cooldown would change from 4 minutes to 5 minutes once you hit 90 and that just seems more unlikely since it would take a lot more to code.


You're not sure at all, you have no idea, and given what SE has stated, it appears likely that you're wrong. Haven't the last two updates been enough to show you that just because things worked a certain way at 75 has absolutely zero bearing on what they'll decide to do? Here's an example: Accession + Haste.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 11:40pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

No, I am pretty sure, I'm not certain(of course not) and I don't know but I am pretty sure. Also, their patch notes don't include everything, like when drgs and dncs got the next accuracy bonus JT, dnc getting multiple dual wield job traits, pld and drk getting the next attack/defense bonus JT, mnk getting the next MA JT, sch getting the latest clear mind at 76, etc.. But they all got them! Its true that SE has been much more thorough with their patch notes(aka... not @#%^ing cryptic) but it hasn't included every single little change. It doesn't state anywhere that the cooldown of stratagems are being changed to five minutes from four minutes does it? I'll admit, it could change to 5 minutes once we hit 90 and thus making each stratagem a 1 minute per, but stratagem has had a four minute cooldown every since level 10 and its much more likely for it to have a 4 minute cooldown still. Also, I could be wrong about this, but wasn't the Accession + Haste thing specifically stated in the patch notes that it wouldn't work before the patch even went live? Your post seems to be attacking me for some reason I don't really get why. I'm not certain, your not certain. I have no idea, you have no idea. I'm sure, your sure. You have your opinions and stated why. I have my opinions and stated.

Edited, Dec 5th 2010 12:10am by palomaru
#25LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Dec 04 2010 at 11:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ...all signs point to the recast remaining at 60 seconds.
#26 Dec 05 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Also, about the stratagem charge, I'm pretty sure its going to be a 48 second cast. Stratagems are on a 4 minute cooldown and for each stratagem, its always been 240/x seconds per charge where x is how many stratagems you have. If they leave it at 1 minute per charge, the total stratagem cooldown would change from 4 minutes to 5 minutes once you hit 90 and that just seems more unlikely since it would take a lot more to code.


Stratagems are actually just a 4 minute recast JA, and the server packets do indeed treat it as such . As you level, it just takes a smaller amount of time per use. However, it's fairly trivial to alter a recast timer, as is the case for LA/DA recast merits.

As for adjusting the timer, it could easily be either, there's just not enough information given in the notes. That being said, there's no need for LyltiaofLakshmi to be an *** about it.
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#27LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Dec 05 2010 at 12:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Debunking a logically flawed argument for something that isn't likely to happen is being an ***? Sorry for bursting your collective bubble, but honestly this was nothing compared to how nasty I can get.
#28 Dec 05 2010 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
But honestly this was nothing compared to how nasty I can get.


That does seem to be the problem. Your default responses are already borderline-insults. There are ways of relying information and yours lacks tact.

This one is a good example:

Quote:
This is the problem with 95% of the people on the internet; if somebody disagrees with them, they take it as a personal attack. Grow some skin.


Other than the obviously biased logic there, that last comment was unnecessary and aggravating.

In fact, that you think that 95% of the people that disagrees with you is offended is just a reflect of how you respond. I do disagree with a lot of people, but it usually remains constructive. On the other hand, most topics that you post in result in you vs someone that got offended. That and how you already lost your Sage despite usually providing well-backed up information speaks for itself.

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#29LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Dec 05 2010 at 1:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is the only thing that matters to me, and the only reason I post here. You guys have fun with your arrow-clicking popularity contest.
#30 Dec 06 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
A few things:

-The notes say we can store an extra Strategem up to 5 at 90; nothing about reduced recharge, and I wouldn't count on it. I don't care how it's worked up til 75, the notes have been very detailed this time, and I doubt they would've forgot to mention it.


Nov. 20, 2007:
SquareEnix wrote:
The time required to regain one charge will also vary depending on the maximum number of possible charges available.


*edit* before you re-emphasize your "I don't care how it's worked up til 75" point, keep in mind that the update notes on Nov. 20, 2007 were 100% direct and to the point with absolutely no room for interpretation or error. We have absolutely 0 basis to assume that the method that SE had originally set for and explained should change simply because they didn't emphasize it in their recent notes.

Edited, Dec 6th 2010 10:21am by Banggugyangu
#31LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Dec 06 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey y'know you're so right! And while we're doing the time warp, let me call up Bear Stearns for some sound financial advice!
#32 Dec 06 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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SCH Lv.88
Teaches the white magic Adloquium.
Gradually increases target's TP.

Discuss.
#33 Dec 06 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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ShibayamaG wrote:
SCH Lv.88
Teaches the white magic Adloquium.
Gradually increases target's TP.

Discuss.


- I foresee 2~3 tp/tick.
- These scrolls will be AH'd for 3 million gil and NPC will sell them for ~150K.
- If SE is smart, it's AOE-able, otherwise there is going to one **** of an uproar.
- Life is going to be tough for "Dark Arts" only SCHs.
- "/anon" is going to find its way into your macro sets.
- No one will ever exclude SCH from their /shout when asking for mages again.

Edited, Dec 6th 2010 1:41pm by GagBag
#34 Dec 06 2010 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
SCH Lv.88
Teaches the white magic Adloquium.
Gradually increases target's TP.

Discuss.


Scholar will be what red mages were for the past 5 years? If it's AoE, it will be a huge boost to having scholars in every DD party
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