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#1 Jul 06 2010 at 10:11 AM Rating: Good
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I responded to an Abyssea /sh looking for a a "backline job". So I immediately think ok, they need a healer. I ask do you need an 80 SCH? I can sub Whm for haste, or Rdm for convert/nukes, depending on the jobs we have. I get a reply, "we need a healer". I say ok, and wait for the invite. A few moments pass and I send another tell asking what the deal is. I get a response saying lol no thanks, Sch is Rdm-1.

It seems that people still don't know what the job is capable of. **** just the other day in Abyssea, I was dropping 2200+ Stone V MBs on Gigas mobs, while easily keeping my melee pt alive with the occasional stoneskinga/regenga.

This is partly why I manaburned all the way to 80. So much ignorance about the job, it's frustrating. Blms are happy as long as they get hailstorm/thunderstorm, and you don't get them killed. They're easy to please (until you outnuke them).

So, what are you guys' experiences with Sch post update?
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#2 Jul 06 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some people are idiots. This was true before the update as well.
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#3 Jul 06 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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svlyons wrote:
Some people are idiots. This was true before the update as well.


Yeah, I know. I guess I should've left the rant out of it. I'm just curious to know what you Sch's have been up to and how you've been doing it since the update. I don't know many Schs in game so I don't have many people to discuss Sch specifics with.

What do you think of haste so far? Would you rather go to events as /whm or /rdm if you had a choice? What's your max Stone V MB? How are convert and haste affecting your playstyle. Just share whatever you feel like.
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#4 Jul 06 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I am met with such idiocy, I believe the person was doing me a favor by not inviting me. A run set by such an idiot can only end in disaster.

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#5 Jul 06 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't hit 80 yet, so I can't comment on /WHM (for haste) vs /RDM (for convert). I've been spending my time working on Magian Trials, trying to get an Indra's Staff. Varuna's Staff will be next. And depending on how burnt out I feel on Magian Trials, I may pursue the magic accuracy versions of Yama's and Vayu's.
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1/467 on signed HQ Weskit!!!
#6 Jul 07 2010 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm now a believer in scholar as a main healer in end game.

I have to admit, with war and pup as my jobs, I had fallen into the "rdm or whm only" trap. We were in dynamis, and the tank party had a scholar and bard. Well, a few people had to leave and we shifted members around to give the scholar their own party to heal. This let us drop the whm in with the bard and pld.

Smooth sailing, right? Wrong.

I was floored by the difference. I simply could not register, without seeing it first hand, the damage mitigation that scholar can give a party in an end-game situation. Not only was the entire tank party now taking tons of damage, but the paladin had less mp than before because of all the healing he was doing.

Keep in mind, this same scholar frequently goes in the blm party, when no additional healers are needed, and nukes with them. Their gear is good, but not godly by any means.

In a way, I understand why I missed this before. It's hard to notice what didn't happen unless your face is shoved in the difference. And scholar has tricks to prevent the damage from happening.

Maybe I'll dust off that old sch38 of mine and play around with it. :D
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#7 Jul 07 2010 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm still just leveling SCH (just got 60 last night) but taking several jobs through 56+ bird parties with RDM,WHM (and the rarely SMN) healers. I noticed SCH did better than them. Now I love a good RDM or WHM just like the rest and not trying to be one sided or anything but just what i saw.

My XP party had
SCH/WHM (me)
PLD/WAR
SAM/WAR
DRG/SAM
RNG/NIN
THF/NIN

I basically spammed SS + Accession (once a fight) and kept Regen II on pld or anyone needed. My DRG were /SAM and I rarely dropped before 500MP (out of 660MP). I maybe used my Sublimation 4 or 5 times the whole 4 hour party (I had it fully charged just never needed). Any other job I took through this range had to wait for healers to get MP or a lot of the DD be half hp or almost dead a lot. Also never gotten a Chain11 in an XP party in this range lol.

But like I said I'm only 60 and the difference between healing a 60 PT and a 80PT could be a big thing but it is what i noticed. Can't wait for Phalanx/SS on XP parties should make it even funner.
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#8 Jul 07 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dolenithil wrote:
But like I said I'm only 60 and the difference between healing a 60 PT and a 80PT could be a big thing but it is what i noticed. Can't wait for Phalanx/SS on XP parties should make it even funner.

You'll add a Haste cycle to what you're doing that's pretty much it. Oh and a 4th Stratagem charge. SCH falls into the same issue many other jobs that aren't the cookie cutter jobs, idiots don't know how to play the jobs but are experts on why the job sucks in a party.
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#9 Jul 07 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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Fermion wrote:
I get a response saying lol no thanks, Sch is Rdm-1.


Granted, this only happens to me rarely; but when it does, it's usually based on false preconceptions. Relatively speaking, SCH's one of the newest jobs to the game, so I don't expect everyone to know what the job is capable of, especially when you consider the enormous difference that individual skill/macros/etc. can make on this job. I find that directly challenging their assumptions, and assuring them that I will perform above/beyond their expectations for whatever role I'll be playing, is usually more than enough to get an invite.

You'd be surprised how far a little education goes compared to writing people off as 'idiots.'

As far as our new toys @ SCH80, Convert is completely, utterly broken for this job. Last night i did a 90min Abyssea-Holla worm camp and rested twice the entire time. I gave SCH/WHM a spin in Einherjar and supported a DD party; between Firestorm/Haste/Stoneskin/Erasega, my DDs never broke a sweat. The skill bonus / level correction is great as well; I'm able to tier my nuking sets up a notch on pretty much everything now; the boost to Helices, albeit small, is welcome.

All we need now is a 2-charge Strategem to -ga Elemental Magic on the way to 99 and I'll be happy! =D
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#10 Jul 07 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:

All we need now is a 2-charge Strategem to -ga Elemental Magic on the way to 99 and I'll be happy! =D

I'd say broken but I used to say that about being able to Convert without being RDM main...
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#11 Jul 07 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Personally I'm loving /Rdm. Convert, another MaB tier, more MaB gear makes me a happy taru. /Whm be damned, I'd much rather sub /Rdm for pretty much anything. Maybe that makes me selfish, but whatever, I don't wanna become a haste bot having experienced all the new toys we have.

Speaking of convert, I've found that if you let your sublimation charge fill completely, save up all charges, cure yourself to full (have a max hp/mp macro for this), then regen II and maybe aurastorm before converting (my hp/mp for my convert macro is 1075/1049) will make your mp last that much longer.

Warning: Make sure your sublimation stock is filled, as convert will stop it, thus reducing your efficiency.

You want to go ahead and get the convert timer ticking down asap while you have a full sublimation charge, so when you get down to -300ish mp of your max, you sublimate, and by then there's usually about 5-6 minutes left on convert (if you've been abusing parsimony/penury during that time, this is why you save your charges).

Now you're at max mp, you should have a strat or 2 for whatever you need to do, and about 5-6 minutes left on vert. You should be able to get two more full sublimations in before you start the cycle over again.

And if you throw in an aspirable mob...basically this...
Quote:
Convert is completely, utterly broken for this job


Tl;Dr lolhaste

Edited, Jul 7th 2010 3:55pm by Fermion
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75NIN, 75BLM, 75SCH, 75SAM, 64BRD, 41RDM, 37DNC, 37WHM, 37WAR
#12 Jul 08 2010 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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Fermion wrote:
Stuff


Y'know, gaining Convert kinda reminds me of when I first leveled the job, trying to figure out the optimal balance of Strategems/Sublimation/etc. All I've determined so far is that it's going to vary widely based two major factors:

-Sublimation setup: Merits, AF/Relic, HP/Race all play a role in how fast your average Sublimation charges, so this varies a lot by player. I have both AF/Relic and full merits and my charge usually maxes in 5-6 minutes while actively casting; or it can happen a lot faster if I don't cast at all. Even assuming your gearswaps are completely optimized, there's always going to be a minimum charge time, and your real charge time which is going to vary a lot based on your actions.

-Strategem usage: If you just spam Parsimony every time a charge refreshes, you could probably get a good rhythm going, but that's hardly optimal. Personally, even if I'm using charges on nothing but Parsimony, I only use it under the following conditions:
-@4 charges, or will be before next nuke (30s~ usually),
-MP is within Uggalepih activation range,
-Sublimation/Convert are down and MP is low,
-Stone5, maybe.

When you consider all this, it becomes very difficult to come up with some ideal strategy that applies to more than a very particular set of circumstances; there's just too many permutations. Honestly, I think trying to perfectly balance Sublimation and Convert so that Convert doesn't interrupt Sublimation is pretty much a fool's errand, as sitting around on recast timers for either is making you much more inefficient than the alternative.

This is how I usually start off:
-Parsimony first nuke to get recasts started
-Free nuke until MP is within Uggalepih range, then start spamming Parsimony
-Use Sublimation once your MP is low enough to stay within Uggalepih range and continue nuking to low MP
-Convert, Cure, Activate Sublimation
-Repeat

At this point my timers are all over the place, so I just make the best decisions I can as timers diverge. All I know is, Sublimation is a gradual effect on a very low recast, while Convert is an instant MP refill on a long recast; Convert always takes priority. If Sublimation gets cut off below 150ish MP by Convert, I'll usually nuke once and use it to get the cycle going again. My focus is always on keeping recasts rolling as much as possible on things like Strategems and Convert to maximize their benefit, and keeping Sublimation active as often as possible. I would certainly never wait an extra minute, or even an extra second, on Convert just to see that shiny 'Sublimation: Full' icon.

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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#13 Jul 08 2010 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
When you consider all this, it becomes very difficult to come up with some ideal strategy that applies to more than a very particular set of circumstances; there's just too many permutations. Honestly, I think trying to perfectly balance Sublimation and Convert so that Convert doesn't interrupt Sublimation is pretty much a fool's errand, as sitting around on recast timers for either is making you much more inefficient than the alternative.


I never said to apply this strategy to every situation. Look at the title of the thread, I was simply giving my experiences and explaining the decisions I was making. It's not like I'm trying to make a guide, I was just curious as to what other Schs are doing.

Quote:
I would certainly never wait an extra minute, or even an extra second, on Convert just to see that shiny 'Sublimation: Full' icon.


It depends, sometimes I might, sometimes I might not. Anyway, sharing a few experiences I had =/= YOU MUST DO THIS ALL THE TIME. Idk, maybe my use of the word "you" was throwing you off, that's just how I explain things. But whatever, thanks for your input.
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75NIN, 75BLM, 75SCH, 75SAM, 64BRD, 41RDM, 37DNC, 37WHM, 37WAR
#14 Jul 09 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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Fermion wrote:
I was simply giving my experiences and explaining the decisions I was making.


Same here, no need to take it personally.

There's nothing wrong with what you outlined in your post; I just wanted to offer the counterpoint that such strategies are difficult to tailor to many situations. Therefore, working out rules and priorities for your abilities in relation to your MP status to maximize overall efficiency is generally more useful in playing the job on a day-to-day basis.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#15 Aug 26 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
They're easy to please (until you outnuke them).



So so true :)
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