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SCH being ignoredFollow

#52 Sep 24 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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Other than the oddity (and yet, surprise) of that actually working, your DD would prolly get more out of +3 STR/DEX (from Voidstorm) than +5 STR (from Firestorm); but hey, if your DD would get more out of Firestorms bonuses than Voidstorm bonuses, then don't let me stop you.
Although, I do kinda admit the enblizzardga while firestorm is up would be rather unexpected, and rather amusing in some sense.


Doesn't a fully merited Stormsurge provide +7 STR from Firestorm, not 5?

(Voidstorm provides halved stat boosts, so 7 becomes 3.5, and the .5 is truncated to make +3 to all)
#53Banggugyangu, Posted: Sep 24 2009 at 9:12 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I didn't say that you claimed there was proof.... I said that you're using the fact that you don't believe that they affect accuracy as a point in your argument.
#54 Sep 24 2009 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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I didn't say that you claimed there was proof.... I said that you're using the fact that you don't believe that they affect accuracy as a point in your argument.


For the record, I don't 'believe' one way or the other on day/weather bonuses affecting accuracy; there's no proof either way, so I disregard it completely when presenting my arguments. You're the one who brought it up in the first place, not me. I invite you to quote the post where I supposedly made this statement; good luck finding it. (You won't, because it doesn't exist.)

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Also... Why are you so adamant against using en-spells for 2 handed melees?


Because using that Strategem for an extra defensive spell makes it that much easier for those 2H DDs to ride Hasso fulltime, which will increase the kill speed much more than Enspells on 2H weapons will. Also, if you're at bird camp, fulltime Hasso DDs will run out of mobs unless you pull Wivres; would you rather give them Enspellga and lose the chain to Demoralizing Roar, or have that Strategem ready for Accession + Erase? I think the choice is rather obvious.

Quote:
It's fact that haste offers more for a meripo than en-spells do. It's also fact that haste has a more exaggerated effect on 2 handed melees *especially when they have a good haste build already*.


Right, because Haste gives exponentially increasing returns, while Enspells give decreasing returns as weapon delay rises. Last I checked, Hasso grants a Haste effect on weapon delay; every time they drop it for Seigan, their DoT decreases noticeably. As such, there is no reason for them to ever drop Hasso with a SCH in the party; if they do, and you're spending charges on Enspells instead of defensive buffs, your priorities are wrong. Just because we don't have access to Haste doesn't mean that our spells can't increase your DD's Haste.

That being said, if you can maintain a fulltime Hasso party with charges to spare, go for the Enspells; however, in my personal experience, all it takes is one DD who is incompetent/overpowered/suicidal (or a combination of the three, we've all seen it.) to throw this out the window. No matter how good you are, this is generally a variable that is beyond your control; pragmatism dictates that you expect the worst and hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Edited, Sep 24th 2009 3:53pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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#55 Sep 25 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
however, in my personal experience, all it takes is one DD who is incompetent/overpowered/suicidal (or a combination of the three, we've all seen it.) to throw this out the window. No matter how good you are, this is generally a variable that is beyond your control



This, I agree 100% with. That's partially my point, as well. It comes down to the melees in part. If you're doing your part right, yet the melees are doing their part wrong, then the problem isn't you. Rather than "fix" yourself, it's better for the melees to fix what they're doing wrong. I generally merit with friends only, so if I notice something that someone's doing, I'll mention it. I've never had a chain killed because I needed 1 extra defensive stratagem. I've never had a chain killed because a melee had to pop seigan for ~10 seconds. I have had chains killed because there was nothing left to pull.
#56 Sep 25 2009 at 8:01 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Assuming full Stormsurge, I don't see any real problem with Firestorm + Enblizzardga.

Fire weather means a roughly 33% chance for per-hit Enblizzard damage to go down by two points. That's roughly .66 damage per non-WS hit in exchange for raising fSTR by 1.75 points (right? I'm no real expert on melee formula) and 3-4 attack. Idk, but it sounds like a good tradeoff to me.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2009 6:20pm by Fynlar


Well its not firestorm + enblizzard vs nothing + enblizzard. Its firestorm + enblizzard vs voidstorm + enblizzard. Assuming storm surge is fully merited.

Firestorm +7 STR + Enspell (can SCH hit 300 skill?)
vs
Voidstorm 3 STR 3 DEX + Enspell

So you loose 4 STR but gain 3 DEX and don't run the chance of shooting your enspells in the foot.

4 STR = 1.0 fSTR and 2 attack, but 3 DEX is 1.5 accuracy so the loss of the fSTR isn't as bad as you would think.
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#57 Oct 03 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Default
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All these stories remind me of the first time I took SCH to einherjar. My leader had me BRD non-stop because I had it. The first time I went SCH, I have never went BRD again. I am always in the tank party for Odin and in the stronger DD pt for the tier runs. I myself, on Asura, have never encountered a situation where I am not wanted to fit a healing role. Sometimes a nuking role because of the restriction on our AoE Sleep2, and lack of stun. Overall, SCH has been a huge hit on Asura and it's a highly wanted. To our lack of haste/refresh; I always dreamed of getting two things.

One would be "Quicken". Level 55 SCH, 55 MP, 20 second recast, 4 second casting time. Lowers recast of abilities.(15-20%, depending on Enhancing skill) Cutting JA ability use by 20%.

The other would be a JA called, "Cumma Lade". Level 60, 5 minute recast. Consumes all/1/2 strategem charge(s) to give MP of a fully charged Sublimation to party members in range. Only works if you have a full charged sublimation. Will have "No effect" if you use a charging sublimation. Didn't know if all strategem charges would be a bit harsh, or if 1 or 2 seemed fair.

This would solve our no "Refresh" and "Haste" problem, while giving SCH even more unique traits to the job. Overpowered? Hell yes, but I can dream.
#58 Oct 06 2009 at 5:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Aristio wrote:
One would be "Quicken". Level 55 SCH, 55 MP, 20 second recast, 4 second casting time. Lowers recast of abilities.(15-20%, depending on Enhancing skill) Cutting JA ability use by 20%.

The other would be a JA called, "Cumma Lade". Level 60, 5 minute recast. Consumes all/1/2 strategem charge(s) to give MP of a fully charged Sublimation to party members in range. Only works if you have a full charged sublimation. Will have "No effect" if you use a charging sublimation. Didn't know if all strategem charges would be a bit harsh, or if 1 or 2 seemed fair.

This would solve our no "Refresh" and "Haste" problem, while giving SCH even more unique traits to the job. Overpowered? Hell yes, but I can dream.


hehe those ideas seem nice but from the power of them they would have to be merit abilites (SE are harsh).

and for the no refresh and no haste i was actually invited to a merit party once /shocked and we were knoking out around 20k/hr was first time healing a merit party and i loved it.

so i do agree the no refresh and no haste can make people shun sch alot but from the schs perspective with af head (i dont have af2 body yet ppl lotting when they wont use it in old ls /sigh)they dont have to rest much as /rdm with phalanx and stoneskin up in merit pt i didnt rest once in about 1hr when we disbanded cos was getting late for JPs (and yes it was a JP pt as well double /shocked)
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#59 Oct 31 2009 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I've leveled SMN and considering how under-appreciated SMNs are as damage dealers even in the end game (non wyrm/non hnm) scene, SCH isn't being treated any worse than the other specialty jobs. It probably has a leg up too given it can play decent healer for meripos desperate for a healer.
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