SCH being ignoredFollow

I will get on my 53 WHM to teleport and people will ask me to party and I say I am done XPing on my WHM but I have a 52 SCH. Then they ask: "Can SCH heal?"

lulz

Not to be mean or anything but your guys servers must suck. On my server I was treated like the queen of Britain when I got around Colibris on SCH and these were all just pick up groups. When it came to manaburns I don't bother. Why would you want to do the blms desperate way for exp when you can get into a REAL pt easy. For mission and stuff BLM or WHM might be more required than a SCH for the lowered caped sh*t but on higher levels SCH can fill in the roles of a WHM defiantly and blm sometimes you just need to step it up and tell people what YOU can do. For merits I used another job honestly since haste is actually damn important.

Also for your last line

Its not hard... its pretty standard, just have /rdm. Your enfeebling magic stays high whether you have light or dark arts up, dispel can be used with Light arts and doesn't really suffer much consequences. Unless there asking for this at really low lvs (crawlers nest) in which case fk them!

Ya you guys must have some ignorant servers. On mine, I'll have certain days where I will get invites for random merit parties while I'm at an event in the middle of nowhere with no flag on as SCH. Back when SCH sucked, and I was taking it through a bird party, everyone loved me healing because they could get 5 DD and me as SCH and just rape the area. Stoneskin, Enblizzard, and cheap curing/regen.

Generally, many people do seem to not fully understand SCH. That just happens when someone hasn't played it or experienced it enough. Obviously, if someone has never touched SCH, and only sees crappy SCH play...they will have no idea what a SCH can do. Once they see a good one, they know. At that point, you wont get the "Haste Can I have it" comments anymore, or the "sub whm cause then you can heal" comments.

I took a (regrettable) invite, and the first thing out of the RDM's mouth was "you can AE haste, right?".

lmao had a ls pt in caedeva mire i accession run to pt stoneskin then get amnesia and drk says "AOE haste instaid of stoneskin"

/sigh

ps i have also thought of writng a macro "SCH DOESN'T GET HASTE SO STOP F****** ASKING"

I know this was a joke (and made me laugh too); but there is a lot of truth to it D:


SCH is not a wildly known job. It suffers from the same problems of DNC, PUP, and COR. This are jobs that since they are still relatively new and very very rare; people just don't know what they can do.
They just go with their gut instincts and try to compare it to the closest thing.
For many COR is just another flavor of BRD, SCH is some sort of RDM, PUP is another SMN, and DNC is a THF/WHM (Yes; I've heard that u.u).

And you can't really blame them. Very few people get to interact with this jobs. Before I took SCH up, none of my leaders had any clue whatsoever of what we could do. Took me some talking, explaining, and most important: demonstrating; before they started saying "Come SCH" over my other jobs.

So it is YOUR job to educate your teamates. If you know that a SCH can do a better job at a given task; just go SCH and show them.
Like I said in the other thread; it takes a few casts of Graviga before all the mages love you.

Not bashing Scholar or anything, but this is pretty much the entire reason people (stupidly) look down on the job from an exp standpoint.

I'm sure you're all aware of this, but no matter how hard you nuke, or how effective your en-ga is, it will not provide as much dot or usefulness in shortened recasts as hasting everyone.
The annoying part comes in when you invite said random RDM or WHM and it turns out there absolutely terrible. You know for a fact that random SCH would have had a higher chance of knowing his job better, and in the long run, probably would have provided faster exp due to less retarded deaths.

:(


In short, East Ronfaure [S] and level sync were made for SCH. It is no coincedence that exp there drys up at 41 lol.



EDIT: Whoever didn't invite SCH to a manaburn is pretty retarded too. Aside from the fact a SCHs nukes are virtually identical to BLMs except more efficient, they can also modify the weather for everyone which becomes massively potent at obi level. /sigh

Edited, Sep 5th 2009 12:59pm by bimrog

When people say they want a WHM, they usually just mean they want a main healer. Most people are flexible about it if you express your interest, unless the situation specifically calls for a WHM or whatever.

Not true, and you're pulling 40 MP away from your RDM to gain 30 MP for yourself *or lose 10 MP if you have relic body*.

In meripo, recasts don't matter when no one is /NIN. :-D

With your grammar (I had a little trouble following) I'm not sure if i totally understand your problem, but how is it possible that your mp problems with a RDM in an xp party are so bad? What is the RDM doing? Are you using strategems? I can't think of a single standard xp camp that I struggled that bad with mp, especially with another full mage.

By the way, you're totally ignoring the concept of "pt mp" and strictly thinking in terms of your own mp pool, which is what Banggugyangu was trying to tell you.

You should learn to conserve your mp better, if your problems are as drastic as your example. Even if you got refresh, it wouldn't do much to help the mp conservation problems you seem to be having.

I wouldn't say ignored, but uncommon.

On Fairy, majority of the time there can be about 1500 players up, 20 of which are COR, 13 are Pup, and 17 Sch. Dnc is fairly common nowadays, because of the small server/ high solo correlation.

In terms of Pties, its alot like my Pup where people didn't know what I could do, until I showed them. But in terms of exp, post 40 its been a dream.

Accession is virtually broken for awhile, Regenga II, Blinkaga, Phalanxaga, Stoneskinaga, Enblizzardaga, are really impressive spells. To the point, where I question the need of Haste as much in a merit pt, if you can negate majority of the damage taken by all the DD's with Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx and regen on every DD, and the healer can refresh themselves, allowing the member to go /war or something, but this is something I haven't tested completely yet, but would love too.

Nin afterall, gimps overall damage potential for "safety"

However, Sch's Accession makes it pretty useful for just about everything, I'd say I beat out for a Whm most times because even now with the Scholars cap, and maybe a /dnc in the pt or a smart Pld or Nin, I can main heal a Pt with low DT and some cookies, while raking in a good couple hundred dmg a Colibri based off Enspells with a handfull of DD's.

Sch has alot of potential, but the lack of Haste is understandable but hurtful. People will only change things when you show them that it can be changed, and many people invite X job for what they've seen soley at 75 and not whats actually in front of them.

In the same vein that a well geared Pup is the best DD you can get till 50, is the same reason a Mnk can beat out a Sam, or War/Nin, and a Sch can stand toe to toe with a Rdm, Whm, and Blm in the right situations.

You are the Scholar, educate the unwashed masses.

I have a question. How many SCH's put together a +enh set for maximizing enspellga's? Also do you take specific monster weakness into account or just blast with day / weather enspell? I'm asking this because most that I've asked in-game seem to just use AF and manifestation + enspell-whatever.

I know on RDM maximizing +enh skill makes a very large difference for full land rates (not just damage amount).

Weather / Day have very little effects on enspell's. Your talking ~2 extra damage possibly. That's why its always best to target the monsters weakness element so you get highest possibly accuracy rate (full land rate).

That being said, almost every monster I've ever fought has been weak to ice, or at least neutral to thunder. What does 5/5 Voidstorm do?

Regardless of the amount of initial damage, Weather/Day procs increase the damage by the same percentage. Sure, it may be a relatively small increase per Enspell proc, but when you consider that it can proc on each hit made by each player over a 3 minute duration, it adds up in a hurry.



I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is always true (Some targets are not weak to any Enspell, target is weak enough for resists to be a non-issue), but it's an excellent point regardless and should definitely be considered when choosing which Storm/Enspell combination to use.

Absolutely, that's exactly what i would do in that situation.

Where to start..

Colibri are naturally resistant to magic in general, not to mention the fact that they're VT. You are going to see substantial resists while using a neutral Enspell against them.

As such, STR+4 on one SAM's WS damage is not going to wind up dealing more damage than the difference between Enfirega and Enblizzardga on Colibri/Puks/Mamools.

Furthermore, if you have more than one SAM, why are you even bothering with Enspellgas in the first place? Enspellga is for 1-handers/Dual-Wielders; a 2-hander party will do much, much more damage if you use that charge on defensive spells to allow them to use DD subjobs.

Circular logic is circular.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 12:32pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

Hard proof? Go test it out yourself, it's blatantly obvious to the naked eye. Perhaps I don't use an enhancing build? Don't pander to me.



I was using something called logic; first I stated that the added damage from STR+4 on one SAM's overall damage will not overcome the difference in damage between 3 minutes of a neutral Enspellga compared to a strong Enspellga on all party members which, according to the parameters i set forth, will be 1H/DW DDs. Then, I stated that adding more SAMs to the equation was a moot point, because a 2nd SAM would entail not using Enspells in the first place. Try to keep up.



Why? I never stated otherwise. Once you graduate high school in a few years, you ought to consider taking a debate class if you manage to make it into higher education; it'll help you stay on topic.



For the last time, produce proof on this; real, solid, irrefutable proof, or drop it for good.



You're absolutely correct; however, you're not looking at the entire equation, therefore this statement is as valid as my bus pass. You're talking about YGK, but I believe I've stated several times that if there's more than one 2H DD in a party, you forgo Enspellgas altogether in favour of Phalanxga, and, as stated above, a party of 1H/DW DDs with Enspellga will more than make up for that STR+4.

I'll just repeat, in case you missed it the first few times: Day/Weather effects have, to my knowledge, never been conclusively proven to add accuracy to spells/effects of their respective elements. Please provide your proof on this subject if you'd like to maintain the last shred of credibility you still, against my better judgement, possess.

He means that most DD's usually go with a defensive sub normally (to mitigate damage), like /NIN or /DNC (for SAM's, or other quick-tp gaining jobs), and this allows them to go with more offensive subs, like WAR, or SAM.



ok, how about a random tangent, like: "/rdm kicks the butt out of /drg for sch"?


Edit: minor grammer and spelling mistakes fixed.

Edited, Sep 21st 2009 11:01pm by Vestrivan

Wow I can't believe someone actually questioned me on my enspell knowledge.

Ok I'll break it down to the guy who doesn't understand spell resists and monster resistance.

Enhancing Skill during cast determines magic accuracy on tier I enspells. This is why its dreadfully important for a meleeing RDM (and incidentally a buffing SCH) to have the highest possible enhancing skill. Even if it doesn't get you into another "tier" for damage, it still enhances magic accuracy. My current setup has me at 315 enhancing skill, all I need is the merciful cape and I'll be at 320 which is the current highest possible for a RDM.

That being said, a 300 enhancing skill enblizzard has approx 80% effectiveness against greater colibri. Against conventional wisdom, G.Colibri actually have no negative resistance, this no real weakness. What they have is an amazingly high resistance to everything -BUT- Ice, with near immunity to Wind. So in effect they are neutral to Ice, but since that's their lowest resistance its what we target.

Second, contrary to popular opinion, STR does more for 1H then for 2H because it ignored delay. STR's primary purpose is to enhance base damage through fSTR (and WSC during WS). Since this is irrespective of the current damage / delay of the weapon involved (exception is when then cap is reached) it favors lower D / lower delay weapons.

Example, for this I am excluding haste because it will have the same effect on both sides.

PH/Joy vs Perdu GAXE (just using as example of fSTR)

Perdu Hangar
D44 Delay 225
Joyeuse
D35 Delay 224(1.45 DA divider) 224/1.45 = 154.4
(225+154.4) * .80 = 303.5 /2 = 151.7 delay per attack
151.7/60 = 2.52 seconds per attack
D44 + 35 = 79 /2 = 39.5 per attack
39.5/2.52 = 15.67 DPS

Perdu Voulge
D96 Delay 504
504/60 = 8.4 seconds per attack
at 96D per attack
96/8.4 = 11.42 DPS

8.4/2.52 = 3.33
The DW setup gets 3.33 attacks in for every 1 attack of the GAXE

Now lets add some STR in there and assume your at a decent STR level.
At 90 STR during TP.
90-67= 23
(23+4)/4 = 6.75 [6] fSTR
This is added on a per hit basis.

(44+6) = 50, (35+6) = 41
D50 + 41 = 91 /2 = 45.5 per attack
45.5/2.52 = 18.05 DPS For sword
18.05/15.67 = 1.151, or a 15.1% increase in DPS from fSTR

96+6 = 102
102/8.4 = 12.14 DPS
12.14/11.42 = 1.063 or a 6.3% increase in DPS from fSTR

And this relationship keeps the same no matter how much STR you tack on.

Sorry for the math, but wanted to make a point so everyone would understand. The 4STR extra from firestorm would actually help the DW/H2H crowd more then it would the 2H crowd, just like the enspells. So the real debate is does the benefit of 4STR (+1 fSTR and some WSC) outweight the benefit of higher total enspell damage? That really is a hard one but I'd say in most case's yes (especially on birds).

I can, at the same time, make this exact statement toward you. Produce real, solid, irrefutable proof against this theory, or drop it for good. I'll agree that until proof is posted in favor of this, then I can't shove it down someone's throat as "fact", but at the same time, until proof is posted in contrast of it, you also cannot shove it down anyone's throat as fallacy.

Although eyeballing doesn't prove a single thing, I myself notice considerably more resists to debuffs that are weak to the given day/weather. At the same time, I notice considerably less resists and more full effects for debuffs OF the given day/weather.



You're making these strange insinuations about how I handle a meripo and they're all very wrong.

1: I pretty much refuse to meripo with 2 handed melees anymore. Not that I dislike them, because I personally even enjoy playing them myself. It's simply that I rather dislike spending extra time getting the same exp that I could get otherwise. It's my own prerogative that no one should really have to comment about.

2: Phalanx is on all my melees all the time. It isn't sacrificed for anything else. If your melees are good enough, 1 stoneskin cast will generally last quite some time. As such, I keep firestorm, enfire, and phalanx up constantly. Stoneskin is refreshed when my sublimation kills it. At 4 HP/tick, that's just about every 4 minutes *works out perfectly, huh?*.


You're also trying to pervert others' words by making statements such as "you're saying that melee DDs should always use offensive subjobs." Allow me to make a couple slightly more correct general statements:

1: For 1 handed melees, /NIN has somewhat become the staple subjob for nearly everything. Other subjobs are situationally useful, but not as often.

2: For 2 handed melees, /SAM has become the staple subjob. Other subjobs are useful under certain situations, though it's rare.

Obviously a NIN and SAM can't sub itself, so there's a bit more freedom.

No one is claiming that any of these subjobs are end-all for every situation. The situation at hand, however, is meripo. If you're a 2 handed melee DD in a meripo party that isn't centered around DRG healing, then you should be /SAM or /DRG or /WAR unless your healers can't handle it. Since we're in the SCH forum, we're assuming that the healer is going to be a SCH. SCH can hnandle it.

There's no accuracy buff to enspells with weather. There is however, a damage increase thanks to the normal 10% modifier you get with other spells. Of course, this is usually floored to 1 unless you can hit 20+ with your enspell, but the extra damage does make a difference when you consider that there's 4+ melee's using it.

Mind you, Enspells are the bane of dancers, so I avoid casting them when there's one in the team. It overwrites their Samba ability including Haste Samba which is doing far more for the party, imo, than your enspells will. On the upside, it 'frees up' an Accession strategem to use for other things... like my personal favourite, AoE Firestorm (+7 STR is lovely) with a side order of Thunderstorm for the THF if requested. I've noticed some very big numbers coming out of their weaponskills after using Firestorm so it's hard not to smile when they thank me for it.

Actually, no you can't. Allow me to quote myself:





And this is what you said:



All I said is that there is no proof that Day/Weather affects accuracy; logic dictates that there's no proof against it either, else I would use that as proof against your above statement. My only problem was with you claiming that there was proof for it, which you made quite clear in the bolded portions of your quote, when there is none.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the final nail in the coffin of your credibility on these forums. Please stop posting.

No, no, no. This is getting laughable. Here's the simple version:

-You claim day/weather affects accuracy.

-I say there's no proof that I'm aware of, please provide some or I'll be forced to call bullsh*t.

-You retreat from your earlier statement and make claims that at some point I claimed there was proof that day/weather did not affect accuracy; if you can find where I said this, feel free to quote it. Here's a tip: you won't.

-You attempt to twist the argument in an effort to divert attention from the fact that most of what you spout on these forums is complete, self-serving bullsh*t.

This is getting ridiculous. If you'd just admit that, hey, you were wrong, my bad, moving on, then the rest of us could too, and there'd be nothing more said on the matter. Instead, you can't stand the fact that you made false claims about something and got called out on it, so you attempt to drag everyone down with you so you're not alone on the wrong side of things.

There's a reason the Sub-Default filter hides 90% of your posts, y'know.

Other than the oddity (and yet, surprise) of that actually working, your DD would prolly get more out of +3 STR/DEX (from Voidstorm) than +5 STR (from Firestorm); but hey, if your DD would get more out of Firestorms bonuses than Voidstorm bonuses, then don't let me stop you.
Although, I do kinda admit the enblizzardga while firestorm is up would be rather unexpected, and rather amusing in some sense.

Edit: found a better word than the one I used before.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2009 10:35pm by Vestrivan