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Starting SCH with some nuke questionsFollow

#1 Sep 01 2009 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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Hi guys, after having levelled almost exclusively melee jobs for the last few years and recently becoming somewhat bored of it, I recently decided to make SCH my 5th and almost certainly last 75 job, but there are a fair few things I'm unclear about regarding the nuking side. I did try to find answers by wading through the forums but I couldnt find specifics.

My SCH is only 24 at the moment so I'm posting somewhat prematurely as most of my questions relate to SCH at 75, but I don't really like levelling a job without knowing as much as I can about it.

The first thing I'm not clear on is the effect of INT on reducing resists. At 75, how much focus should I put on INT, Elemental Magic skill and Magic Accuracy for reducing resists? As an example, what would be better to give the Selenian cap (as something of a temporary piece until I get relic head); INT+6 Magical Accuracy +2 (and Fast Cast) or INT +4 Magical Accuracy +5?

As another example what would be better for resists, Druid's Slops or Errant Slops?

Does 1 skill into Elemental Magic = 1 Magic Accuracy and nothing more or does it also have an effect on the damage, or is damage only modded by INT/MAtt?

Exactly how good is Magic Attack? I mean for example which is considered better, Yigit Gages (INT+5 Matt+2) or Vicious Mufflers (Matt +5)? Obviously Yigit would be better for reducing resists but from a pure max damage perspective, which would generally be better?

I'm sorry if this is just a random stream of questions but like I said there's a lot I dont know.

Thanks
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[Ragnarok]
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
#2 Sep 03 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lots of questions, lots of answers!

First for your gear questions: It's situational. "What's better" always depends on "what's the target?" and "what's your other gear/merits?". A build with prudence torque instead of ele torque has to make up for the lost 7 ele skill somewhere. Both can work, just depends what the rest of your gear/merits look like.

In general I'd go for the 6int/2macc head for SCH. You should also consider the 4int/2mab combo, which is better max damage than either, at the cost of some accuracy.

Errant/mahatma will be your go-to legs. Druid's slops are technically better macc, but it's a trade of 8 int for 5 ele skill. You can make a better trade on the body by switching errant body to AF body (10 int for 15 ele skill), or the head if you have argute m.board by switching af head to af2 head (5 int for 7 ele skill).

INT only lowers your resists by a little. It's not as good as Elemental Skill and Magic Accuracy for lowering resists. INT's advantage is that it adds damage while also lowering your resists. If you only need a little more magic accuracy, INT is usually the way to go since it'll boost your damage too. INT also is very good for helix spells, so you'll want a lot of int gear for those.

Elemental Skill and Magic Accuracy are generally assumed to be just about equal. The difference is that magic accuracy improves all spells, while elemental skill only improves elemental magic. The trade-off is that elemental skill usually comes in larger quantities. The only large source of macc on a single item I can think of is the appropriate ele staff.

Elemental Skill does not increase damage at all, only accuracy. Over time elemental skill will increase your average damage because of less resists, but ele skill itself doesn't raise your base damage any. Remember that there is a magic accuracy cap though, so just stacking ele skill everywhere will often lower your damage overall, since you will be wasting a lot of it and could've been wearing INT and MAB gear instead.

The general rule for magic attack on high level mobs with endgame gear and nukes is 2 int = 1 mab. At lower levels using lower tier nukes, int is a little stronger, but mab is harder to come by too. Since helices are based on the damage formula of low tier nukes, this is why INT is generally better than MAB on helix spells. So, vicious mufflers will generally do better on tier3 and tier4 nukes, while Yigit Gages will be better for helix spells and lower tier nukes (if you're casting thunder 2 or something @level 75 for whatever reason). The difference vicious mufflers make is pretty small compared to yigit hands anyway, but max damage is max damage.

Hope that helps.
#3 Sep 03 2009 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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[quote=lolscholarINT only lowers your resists by a little. It's not as good as Elemental Skill and Magic Accuracy for lowering resists. INT's advantage is that it adds damage while also lowering your resists. If you only need a little more magic accuracy, INT is usually the way to go since it'll boost your damage too. INT also is very good for helix spells, so you'll want a lot of int gear for those.[/quote]

This is very generalized and should be explained more thoroughly.

INT effects resist rates greatly UNTIL your INT is equal to the mob's INT + 10. At this point, the macc gained by INT adding any more INT is essentially halved. Because of this, if your INT is not equal to the mob's INT + 10, then you should focus on reaching that point first, then adding elemental skill for macc.

Basically... it's this:

Concerning Magic Accuracy only:
Elemental skill == Magic Accuracy.

When Player INT < Mob INT + 10: + INT == + Elemental Skill == + Magic Accuracy.

When Player INT >= Mob INT + 10: + INT == (+ Elemental Skill)/2 == (+ Magic Accuracy)/2


Too many SCHs I see nuking kirin with full macc gear when full INT gear will offer the same macc #/# until you reach 159 INT.
#4 Sep 03 2009 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks a lot for the replies guys I really appreciate it.


Banggugyangu wrote:
Too many SCHs I see nuking kirin with full macc gear when full INT gear will offer the same macc #/# until you reach 159 INT.


Why is that for Kirin people talk about aiming for 120skill/130int? Is that just an optimal amount or is there some other reason for it? Seems from what you've said that you should just focus entirely on INT since it's unlikely you can get 159 int.
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[Ragnarok]
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
#5 Sep 03 2009 at 7:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Why is that for Kirin people talk about aiming for 120skill/130int? Is that just an optimal amount or is there some other reason for it? Seems from what you've said that you should just focus entirely on INT since it's unlikely you can get 159 int


You have it slightly wrong, it's 320 skill/120 INT. That's not just for Kirin, it's a minimal ammount for pretty much every big time HNM.

Kirin is in it's own league really, where a super INT set will work out pretty nice due to his high INT.
#6 Sep 04 2009 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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KalessinMC wrote:
Thanks a lot for the replies guys I really appreciate it.


Banggugyangu wrote:
Too many SCHs I see nuking kirin with full macc gear when full INT gear will offer the same macc #/# until you reach 159 INT.


Why is that for Kirin people talk about aiming for 120skill/130int? Is that just an optimal amount or is there some other reason for it? Seems from what you've said that you should just focus entirely on INT since it's unlikely you can get 159 int.


320/120 is a generally accepted minimum for resist rates on HNMs. MINIMUM.

With the hyper INT build, the only problem is that there are certain things where you can get considerably more elemental skill than INT. It's best to go with the skill if there's a big difference between that and the available INT for that slot. If the INT offered is higher, go with that. Just an FYI, I'm sitting on 157 INT right now, and I have another 13 INT available. It's very possible to reach the 159 mark for Kirin with quite some ease.
#7 Sep 04 2009 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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The 120INT from the 320ELE/120INT rule comes from the data that almost all resistant HNM's (Wyrms and Sky gods in particular) hover around 110INT. So 110+10 will give the best amount of M.Accu per INT

There are exceptions, like Kirin (150ish) and Jormy (120ish I think); who have more. But this are like the only HNM's I can think of.
So yeah; for Kirin; you'd want to pile on INT; as it somewhat harder to get to the point of diminishing returns.

Or you can simply abuse Klimaform and go with a mixed set <_<

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#8 Sep 04 2009 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Or just zerg it
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#9 Sep 05 2009 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Drexis wrote:
Or just zerg it


Zerging is the most boring thing I can think of that anyone does on FFXI. If I fight Kirin, I want the longer battle that actually provides some gameplay. I don't wanna use a "game shark" KCDRK squad to kill the mob in 30 seconds.
#10 Sep 05 2009 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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That's cool. I think kited Kirin is one of the most boring fights in the game, and would rather move on to real gameplay as soon as possible when W. Legs Farming comes up. I don't wanna use a "gameshark" RNG/SMN squad to kill the mob in 30 minutes.

SCH's pretty nice in Kirin zerging btw, aoe cure4 from outside party is awesome for astral flow and if Stonega gets off.
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