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Scholar In PvPFollow

#1 May 21 2009 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
28 posts
Scholar is one of my favorite jobs in the game, and currently is my main. The other day I was in PvP with it, and got beaten to **** and back. My confidence was dropped extremely low from such horrible defeats. The truth is I have no idea how to use scholar effectively in PvP situations. Now granted, we did do a 30 cap, but still! I had no idea what to do.

Now I'm sure many of you have a much better idea of what to do with scholar in these situations, and was wondering if you could share some knowledge with me so that I might be able to get some revenge. Is scholar good in PvP? And how does Scholar work and do well in PvP?

Thank you very much!

Feel free to discuss a bit if no one really knows.
#2 May 21 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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It depends on what you're fighting and which tactics you're using.

So far I've successfully used SCH/RDM Stoneskin, Phalanx, Blaze Spikes to beat a DNC and THF so far.

Against a BLU the only way I won was Silence + Gravity and nuke.

Against a WAR Gravity DoT/Nuke.

Those are the only jobs I've played against to far. If its a job that can sleep use Sublimation regularly and sleep them or bind and run away for the 30sec cool down.
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#3 May 21 2009 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
28 posts
Hmm well that is interesting... But! What other strategies are there? I am sure there are basic and general tips for PVPing with scholar. Because I had a lot of problems.

First of all, do I bother changing between arts while in battle?

#4 May 21 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
28 posts
Sorry for double post, but is scholar generally good In PVP

Good bad or neutral?
#5 May 21 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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I dont PvP so i mite not be the best source for this, but.. I do solo a lot, Mostly IT++ mobs or NM's, as well as I have a lot of experience with crowd control in various EG events. I can tell you first off that you wont have much luck in a 30cap PvP fight. You've got hardly any abilities or spells available that truly make scholar shine.

Zagan gave a good example of what to expect at level 75 in PvP. Though, expect ppl to come after you first to kill. Graviga, sleepga, bindga, SSga, phalanxga, and all those agas can get annoying for ppl. lol

As for changing "Arts", well that entirely depends on what roll your trying to fill, or what needs to be accomplished.

Ceiblo wrote:
Hmm well that is interesting... But! What other strategies are there? I am sure there are basic and general tips for PVPing with scholar. Because I had a lot of problems.


It doesnt get more basic than wat Zagan said to you. Again, if your having problems its because lvl30 isnt really the best level to exploit Sch's abilities.
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#6 May 21 2009 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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SCH shines in team vs team ordeals. Graviga bindga drainga aspirga stoneskinga are GREAT. Resist silence is a ***** and sublimation makes you unsleepable. If you want to fully enjoy SCH in PvP I suggest doing OM (official match) so you can see the full power of SCH.

Also, lower caps are tough for 1on1 matches unless you're a melee class.

Edited, May 21st 2009 6:41pm by Hiswhitewings
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Hiswhitewings, Fenrir
75 THF,RDM,PLD,NIN,BLU,DNC
Ballista addict
I probably rated you down.
#7 May 21 2009 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
28 posts
Those are great tips Graviga, and sublimation to prevent sleep are very attractive ideas. From the sound of all the (Ga) spells it does sound like Sch stands out in offical Pvp matches with large groups, but let's face it!

Official PvP on FFXI is pretty much dead. PvP is restricted for the most part to personal LS matches and 1v1 Death matches.

So what about 1v1 Deathmatches? A lot was touched upon with Sch players in big groups... But are there any other things that can be said for Sch players in 1v1 matches? Generally good? Bad?

Also! How would you rank scholar in the PvP metagame? High Medium or low tier?

Sorry if I am a bit redundant. At work right now and not having time to double read everything.
#8 May 21 2009 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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1on1 SCH is just really lacking much like BLM is. All you can really do is bind/sleep nuke or DoT kite. Not very fun. For 30CAP I really can't say what would work for a 1on1 situation for SCH...

But overall SCH is one of those jobs that can easily be your greatest asset or your teams downfall. As I said before, SCH is great simply due to all the AoE it can throw around. But their defense, although not PAPER thin with the right gear, it is pretty lacking and you WILL be taken down easily if caught off guard.

My best advice for this particular 30 cap situation? Bring a melee job. THF is great! Bolts own these levels. Bolts with high EVA is DEADLY. Only downfall is that THF has no real damaging WS this lv but I remember doing THF/NIN and mostly shooting people to death in ballista.
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Hiswhitewings, Fenrir
75 THF,RDM,PLD,NIN,BLU,DNC
Ballista addict
I probably rated you down.
#9 May 21 2009 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
28 posts
I don't really care about strictly level 30 pvp matches I just wanna know if there is some light at the end of the tunnel for Scholars in PvP. It looks like there is though.

So... we went over basic tactics. Use AOE spells, Use sublimation to avoid sleep. Use resist silence to avoid being screwed. Use Graviga to keep distanced from the enemy.

In 1v1 Situations I should Kite...


But! We haven't gone over subjobs. What subjobs would be effective?

/Rdm looked pretty good...
#10 May 21 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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1,949 posts
I pvp a lot. Well I did back in the day. Ballista died on my server just a after i had been 75 for a few months.

SCH in pvp has extreme advantages vers every other mage in the game. The rule of magedom pvp combat is Sleep > Silence > Defeat.

To the sch luck, we happen to have a great ja that allows us to be unsleepable. Sublimation. Its amazing when people /tell you "why wont you sleep!?" and just stand there casting it over again and again as you nuke them away.

Our other nice trick is the resist silence trait. Now bard being quite unsilenceable if built right, sch can come close. Silence from anything other than a rdm probably wont land, which is nice.

When it comes to tips and tricks. Sch is a major asset to ballista parties. Be sure to super buff your team before charging into battle. Things like, ss'd shadowed melee with phalanx(which is cheaper to cast than rdm casting phalanx II) and str+7 from firestorm and some enspells can really work in your favor.

You are a mage, you have about a step above toughness of smn and blm, but not as bad *** as rdm and super human a good whm can be. So definitly be mindful of who and where your at.

But the best...the best...thing about sch is...Bindga, graviga, blindga and if you ever are lucky enough to have /drk and stunga and not be a walking gate breach, those are must haves.

Blm hits the other team with sleepga, you follow with graviga and bindga, and watch everyone curse you for ur ablities.

Dont even bother with helixs, and the recast and casting reduction will make spells like drain nukes ur friend. Curega(before cura) was a quick and cheap way to rid urself of sleep, and with erasega and reganga you can keep teammates alive great too.

Apsirga and drainga are great for doing dmg and erasing shadows. I was surrounded one time. 100 hp left, got off drainga...was back at 900ish and managed to get out of 3 melees trying to rape me with a quick bindga. LOL.

Definitly stick to offical matchs tho. PVP in anything else will be just 1vs1 spam and sch cant cut it up close and personal, and bind nuke will work but thats kinda boring.

Subs-
/rdm at 75 caps is pretty much the best bet. Phalanx being 90% of the reason. Also access to sleep without strgms and bind and gravity. + SS which is a must if you are a mage and plan on anyone hitting "attack" on you.

Now magevsmage other subjobs could work, but if there are melee's bring your ss.

/whm anything below uncapped. 60 and lower. Its ur best bet. 60 cap you wont get ss from rdm. So whm is your best bet. Its also a good idea if you see ur paired with another sch(if your so lucky, i have been it was awesome.) maybe go /whm to completely knock out any whm needed functions without wait of strgms. I didnt use /whm much tho.

/blm. Only only only if you are fighting another mage. Group events, this is really bad, you are a gate breach, and a smn could survive a bit longer. Well not really.

/drk. Stunga is ****. And absorbga spells are nifty at first. 75 cap only, and only if you know for sure you wont be a main target. I'd say this works for big big battles. doesnt offer graviga tho.

Everything else kinda pales in comparison. Sch lacks defensive buffs, and only jobs with those spells make for good use.


Overall sch is a great job since PVP in the mage jobs is about aoe vs aoe. You've got strong nukes, that can hit faster and with less cost than blm, aoe enfeebles, aoe defense, and auto-nosleep and resist silence. But like anyjob, a sucky sch will be a pain, a good sch will rock out. You'll always at some point get ur *** kicked in ballista, but with more practice you'll learn how to pick ur battles. Definitly invest in dmg - gear, get a jelly ring and a that cape. I use them, they are nice!


I <3 aspirga...I really really do.


And dispelga...pretty nice. Wipe shadows and buffs!! Use it



Edited, May 21st 2009 9:35pm by EarthSage
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Olairik
Elvaan

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Leaden Salute-Omniscience
"I still /blm in the mire" LOL
#11 May 21 2009 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
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1,419 posts
I'm a firm believer of a good offense is the best defense in Ballista.

In 60 cap matches you won't have buffs as /RDM BUT you will still have a ton of goodies to spam. Namely, graviga/bindga! These two spells are what gives your team breach to score. Spam them, love them, be the biggest most annoying ***** you can be with it. The downfall? No buffs! So, if you get caught out in the open you're pretty much @#%^ed.

Some SCH choose the /WHM route and play SCH as an optimum healer. It can work, but imo /RDM will yield better results. As /WHM your bread and butter will be stoneskinga.

SCH/RDM for uncaps is a no brainer. You have the benfits of both /WHM and /BLM during 60 cap. Same deal, AoE buff your team. AoE enfeeble the enemy.

Best advice you can give anyone is use your head. You know your limits better than anyone else. AoE as much as you can but know when to do it. Dispelga, aspirga, drainga and all that good stuff really can **** a team over easily.

If you're REALLY interested in Ballista and it's dead on your server I suggest hopping to Fenrir for no other reason than I'm there myself =p

Edited, May 22nd 2009 1:14am by Hiswhitewings
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Hiswhitewings, Fenrir
75 THF,RDM,PLD,NIN,BLU,DNC
Ballista addict
I probably rated you down.
#12 May 21 2009 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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109 posts
EarthSage wrote:
SCH in pvp has extreme advantages vers every other mage in the game. The rule of magedom pvp combat is Sleep > Silence > Defeat.


That right there should say it all.

Thats the thing about mage jobs, specifically, rdm, blm, and sch, their all played the same way. Though rdm has more room to mix it up. Whether your in a pt or not your still going to cast the same spells in the same order. The only difference is the "aga's", but even then... if your fighting someone with shadows you'll still likely be using aoe moves.

As for sub, /rdm > everything else. Always!(speaking from a sch75/rdm37 perspective) Ya.. other subs add lil perks, but those perks come with more severe draw backs that make them not so worth while. I wont go in depth about it, unless ya ask me to. ^^

If you play the job the way it was meant to be played, "Crowd Control", you will always have a huge bulls eye on your back. Expect to die.. Hence why once you start tossing those aga's on the enemy, your not going to do anything else. You'll have a lot of angry ppl riding your ****!

Generally speaking, Mage > Melee in 1vs1 fights. If you arent winning its because of your lack of skill. Mage vs Mage is pretty much who ever grabs that first sleep/silence, in our case, likely us.
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Bst75, Sch75, Brd75, War75, Rdm75, Sam 75
#13 May 22 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Decent
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315 posts
Just curious, how much per tick does ebulience + helix do to an average melee?
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75NIN, 75BLM, 75SCH, 75SAM, 64BRD, 41RDM, 37DNC, 37WHM, 37WAR
#14 May 22 2009 at 7:41 AM Rating: Decent
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1,419 posts
Quote:
Just curious, how much per tick does ebulience + helix do to an average melee?


Not sure...but you can easily test it in a Brenner match for us! I'd love to know this myself...I have yet to see SCH use a helix in any match.
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Hiswhitewings, Fenrir
75 THF,RDM,PLD,NIN,BLU,DNC
Ballista addict
I probably rated you down.
#15 May 22 2009 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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109 posts
Well, your helix' would differ. Just like when testing it on a mob, your initial attack will determine the dmg per tick. Your gear as well as weather effects will have a big role in the dmg outcome.
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#16 May 22 2009 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fermion wrote:
Just curious, how much per tick does ebulience + helix do to an average melee?


To give you an idea a hume WAR/NIN without gear has 57 INT and a hume DRK/NIN has 66 INT.

Using this info and what's the understood formula for helices [(YourINT-TargetINT)+25] * (MAB/1)* (STAFF) * Weather * Day = Damage
Lets assume you have 130 INT in gear just to give a nice decent number you may have in gear and food.

MAB = /RDM + Moldavite Earring

[(130-57)+25] * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1 * 1 = 134.75 = 134/tick against a naked WAR/NIN

[(130-66)+25] * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1 * 1 = 122.37 = 122/tick against a naked DRK/NIN

Again these aren't exact but they give you an idea of how much damage you do and also how much damage 9 INT on the target reduces your potential.
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#17 May 22 2009 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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315 posts
Quote:
Not sure...but you can easily test it in a Brenner match for us! I'd love to know this myself...I have yet to see SCH use a helix in any match.

I would test it, but I'm currently on hiatus for a few a while.

Quote:
To give you an idea a hume WAR/NIN without gear has 57 INT and a hume DRK/NIN has 66 INT.

Using this info and what's the understood formula for helices [(YourINT-TargetINT)+25] * (MAB/1)* (STAFF) * Weather * Day = Damage
Lets assume you have 130 INT in gear just to give a nice decent number you may have in gear and food.

Thanks for the post. I already knew about the formula, I was just wondering if helices suffered any damage reduction like nukes do. I guess I should've presented my question differently.
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#18 May 22 2009 at 1:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fermion wrote:
Thanks for the post. I already knew about the formula, I was just wondering if helices suffered any damage reduction like nukes do. I guess I should've presented my question differently.


Nukes suffer a penalty? Unless they have shell or MDB of any kind on I've hit spells for what would be close to normal damage as SCH. I'd get nukes in the 800-900s for Tier IVs. Its been a while but I noticed my Helix spells did good damage against WAR and DNC but against BLU or RDM it was doing crappy numbers but that could have been due to Stoneskin as we didn't do matches specifically for testing all scenarios.
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Bismarck: Zagen
#19 May 22 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Decent
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2,976 posts
Scholar is FUN in Dynamis. Find a nice crowd of people and smash them with Graviga then blast away at them with tier 4 nukes. Mwahahaha! If you find a nice crowd of mages, hit them with Aspirga and you can restore virtually all your MP in seconds! Drainga's equally great for restoring HP if you're under fire!

There's just one tiny downside... we're fragile.

"Glass cannon" is a good way to describe us actually. We can dish out amazing damage, but we do so at the cost of survivability. We have Stoneskin and Phalanx to protect ourselves, but that will go down quickly to any decently equipped melee or even a Black Mage. Still, its a price worth paying in my opinion. We might not be as hard to kill as Red Mages, but we have far more fun doing it :)
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