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#1 May 18 2009 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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So i've been doing Dynamis and looking at the SCH Set. What pieces do you think is worth getting?


Argute Mortarboard
[Head] All Races
DEF: 16 HP +10 MP +10 MND +5
Elemental magic skill +7
Grimoire: Reduces spellcasting time
Lv. 75 SCH

Argute Gown
[Body] All Races
DEF: 38 HP +15 MP +15
Enhancing magic skill +7
Magic Defense Bonus +5
Enhances "Sublimation" effect
Lv. 74 SCH

Argute Bracers
[Hands] All Races
DEF: 14 MP +20 INT +3 MND +3
Enfeebling magic skill +7
Enmity -2
Lv. 71 SCH

Argute Pants
[Legs] All Races
DEF: 27 HP +15 MP +15 INT +5
Dark magic skill +7 Enmity -2
Lv. 73 SCH

Argute Loafers
[Feet] All Races
DEF: 13 MP +20 Healing magic skill +7
Weather: Enhances Celerity
and Alacrity effect
Lv. 72 SCH

Argute Mortarboard - Nice for the +7 elemental skill
Argute Gown - Obviously for 4mp/tick return on sublimation (any other uses?)
Argute Bracers - Nice for Enfeebling magic skill +7 along with MND +3 for enfeebles
Argute Pants - Not sure if it's woth getting (maybe for drain aspir macro in? )
Argute Loafers - Not really considering getting these.


So for you guys that already have your armor, what pieces are most important?
#2 May 19 2009 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems to me you already have a good look on what to get.

Head, Body, Hands are the ones you want to focus on.

Legs offer the possibility of making Dark Magic gear set. Up to you if ya want to take things that far.

Feet... Well. I already cast at 50% casting speed without using Gems. Feet are hardly worth the macro space. But fun if your into completing the Set.
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#3 May 19 2009 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't forget the belt.

Everything is good to have, cept the feet. They aren't all that useful.
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#4 May 19 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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"They aren't all that useful."

True, for general use there are not very useful.

But in sutiations when they actually are useful, they can let you do things you would not be able to do without.

Like getting a much needed Bind in / squeezing in a Blizzard IV. Thanks to ice weather, Alacrity and relic boots you can get insane low recast/cast timers on both. See for instance longer solo/low man fights where you need to kite and rely mostly on DoT + the occasional nuke.

All in all, they are not my daily choice of footwear, but there are certainly situations in my SCH life (full of solo adventuring) where i put them to good use.

My advise: Get them and use when appropriate.

Edited, May 19th 2009 7:30pm by Mosel
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#5 May 19 2009 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
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first of all thx for the replies ^^

Just wanted to use this thread and ask another question, not really related to relic.

I'm very new in the matter of magic since this is my first mage job so bare with me :)

I finished awhile ago the ACP fight and still havent gotten the body cause I cant make up my mind on what to choose (for which job). So if i end up choosing this body for sch, i would go for +4macc and +4mab.

But my doubt is, since i dont nuke on HNM (only HNM's i do are in sky), morgana's body will always be superior right? I'm talking about dyna, limbus, solo NM's and stuff like that. So this body would go pretty much go to waste.

Or i'm i missing something? what other uses would there be for it?
#6 May 20 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Head: Best piece for an elemental skill build.
Body: Best idle piece during sublimation.
Hands: Best enfeebling piece hands down.
Legs: Wonderful aspir/drain macro piece.
Feet: VERY useful when used properly. Not applicable for all settings.

Feet can let you kill ix'mnk before even getting to the kite area. Any situation where you need to get a big nuke off fast, argute feet will turn that situation into gravy. My question: WHY THE *&$# DID THEY PUT HEALING MAGIC SKILL ON THEM!?!?!

Each piece is quite useful. Each piece is completely situational.

*edit* Not accounting for HQs of each piece. Benefits from each HQ are very marginal. Hands and Legs are really the only 2 pieces I would ever consider upgrading, but that would be a time when I literally have nothing else on which to spend currency.

Edited, May 20th 2009 2:03pm by Banggugyangu
#7 May 20 2009 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
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New in the matter of magic


Best advice from both a sanity and performance perspective would be to get the SpellCast plugin. At the price of thinking out a set of rules you want to play by for life, it will keep track of all your latents, arts, and even strategems. There is a learning curve to be sure, but it is overall one of the most freeing feelings, knowing I can type "/ma bind" and it doesn't spit me 4 lines of red text as my HP changes colour.
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#8 May 20 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Banggugyangu wrote:
Feet: VERY useful when used properly. Not applicable for all settings.


I dont doubt that they help. But they aren't as useful as you make em sound. On all spells my normal casting speed and recast for spells is 50%, when using alacrity and celerity its 25%.

Things such as SS have 10sec recast and things like Bliz4 have 5 sec recast. The most those shoes are going to shave off is 1sec(cant prove it cuz i dont have the feet..)
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#9 May 22 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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ElVendi wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:
Feet: VERY useful when used properly. Not applicable for all settings.


I dont doubt that they help. But they aren't as useful as you make em sound. On all spells my normal casting speed and recast for spells is 50%, when using alacrity and celerity its 25%.

Things such as SS have 10sec recast and things like Bliz4 have 5 sec recast. The most those shoes are going to shave off is 1sec(cant prove it cuz i dont have the feet..)


1 second IS make or break in some situations. If you're fighting something in a confined area, 1 second less cast time can mean the difference between you getting interrupted and dirt-faced or killing the mob. If you spot someone throwing out a dark skillchain, 1 second could mean the difference between 1200 damage and 1600 damage. The use is there, denying it is stubborn and retarded. I stated in my post that they're not applicable for all settings... That pretty much covers all bases. When they're useful, they're VERY useful. When they're not... they're not.
#10 May 22 2009 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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ElVendi wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:
Feet: VERY useful when used properly. Not applicable for all settings.


I dont doubt that they help. But they aren't as useful as you make em sound. On all spells my normal casting speed and recast for spells is 50%, when using alacrity and celerity its 25%.

Things such as SS have 10sec recast and things like Bliz4 have 5 sec recast. The most those shoes are going to shave off is 1sec(cant prove it cuz i dont have the feet..)


How have you broken the 50% hard cap? All my tests have left me hitting the hard 50% cap be it with Fast Cast, Haste, or even normal gear. Alacrity and Celerity force a spell to 50% and nothing gear wise or spell wise has been able to break that cap in my tests besides relic boots with weather.

Edit: This is on non AoE spells those I can hit the 25% cap you're talking about because that's the natural 50% if the spell was single cast.

Edited, May 22nd 2009 12:01pm by Zagen
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#11 May 23 2009 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Elvanier wrote:
I dont doubt that they help. But they aren't as useful as you make em sound.


@Banggugyangu

Again i'll say it, I didnt say they weren't useful, just that they weren't as useful as you make em sound. yes, 1 sec extra could mean the difference, hell, adding a sec here and a sec there adds up overall. But still, the requirements involved for the feet to work may not always be present. But w/e, no need to argue play style, cuz its really irrelevant.

@Zagan

Well with /rdm, argute head, scholar feet, loq earring.. my casting bar easily hit 50-55%(hard to completely tell.) Wiki claims that alacrity and celerity doenst stack with gear and such. Well i can attest that it does. Now again, I am basing this entirely on what my casting bar says. If this is flawed logic, than plz point it out. lol.

Zagan wrote:
Alacrity and Celerity force a spell to 50% and nothing gear wise or spell wise has been able to break that cap in my tests besides relic boots with weather.


I always thought this, and i havent done extensive testing on it, but i first noticed it while trying to skill up parrying against 4-5mandies. Was casting SS at 50% just by casting it than 25% when using celerity. Now again, I may be missing something here that has eluded me. But that seems like it stacks to me.
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#12 May 29 2009 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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ElVendi wrote:
@Zagan

Well with /rdm, argute head, scholar feet, loq earring.. my casting bar easily hit 50-55%(hard to completely tell.) Wiki claims that alacrity and celerity doenst stack with gear and such. Well i can attest that it does. Now again, I am basing this entirely on what my casting bar says. If this is flawed logic, than plz point it out. lol.

Flawed logic because lag (from connection speed/quality, to rendering strain on the game, think dynamis) also affects the casting bar.

The only way I've found to consistently test gear is based on recast because Casting Time always seems to jump around too much to figure anything consistently even when in an empty zone and minimal animation.
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#13 May 29 2009 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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ElVendi wrote:
Well with /rdm, argute head, scholar feet, loq earring.. my casting bar easily hit 50-55%(hard to completely tell.) Wiki claims that alacrity and celerity doenst stack with gear and such. Well i can attest that it does. Now again, I am basing this entirely on what my casting bar says. If this is flawed logic, than plz point it out. lol.


Flawed logic because:

1: Name any spell in the entire game that, with or without fast cast, shows the animation for the spell cast exactly when the bar hits 100%.

2: Eyeballing animations to judge how fast you're casting is just ... no.

3: Lag *as stated previously* has a major effect on how soon you cast.

Casting times are very difficult to test.

The best way to test it would be to cast a teleport spell under various conditions *multiple times each condition*.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that without relic boots and the appropriate weather effect, you will not cast any teleport spell faster than 10 seconds.

With celerity, relic boots, and the appropriate weather, you should most likely cast it in 8 seconds.

Regarding your comment about relic boots and me over-exaggerating their usefulness. Why argue this point? I'm stating situations where they're incredibly useful. Some of these are to the point where certain things may not be possible without them. You're simply saying, "They're not as useful as you say." As far as the whole "The conditions to use them aren't always available." argument... Do you have hailstorm up when you cast bliz 4? No? You should. Yes? If you need that to go faster use alacrity. If you need it even faster... boots are the ONLY way to do so. If it's a situation such as Ix'Mnk where you might want to pop with both adds for a nearly 100% chance of obtaining one of the drops. Windstorm before popping lets you grav the adds with plenty of time to take off *given you have herald's gaiters*.
#14 May 29 2009 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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109 posts
I wont claim to not have lag. Cuz i get my fair share. But i can tell you, that when im not getting lag, the gear i mentioned still gets me at 50% and 25% with celerity/alacrity. Again this is solely based on the casting bar without lag. I should prob grab a stop watch... and test it further before posting this. But i'll do it later to either disprove or prove what im saying. Maybe... when it sayd im casting at 50% without those gems im really not... but i fail to see why it would if i wasnt and how you would be able to know if it was otherwise. Again like i said in my last post, if im failing to see something in this all, plz, point it out.
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#15 May 30 2009 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Just get them all. They're all useful in their own senses.

#16 May 31 2009 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
not worth arguing against someone claiming to have achieved under 50% cast/recast w/out relic boots

it's just not possible.
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Obi:8/8 Novio\a:O Nashira:4/5 H.Gaiters: O
LS:AirshipRaiders/ValyrieRiders/NoEnkiduForU
Windurst :10 CoP:8-5 ZM:18 ToAU:48 WotG: 19
#17 May 31 2009 at 7:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Elvendi wrote:
Again like i said in my last post, if im failing to see something in this all, plz, point it out.



ZacheusofGilgamesh wrote:
not worth arguing against someone claiming to have achieved under 50% cast/recast w/out relic boots

it's just not possible.


Why even bother posting if nothing more than to attempt at insulting me? You've added nothing to discredit what I've said. If I tell you I've casted SS at 25-30%(based on casting bar) than that's because it's true. I gain nothing by lying. I did how ever say that if this is not an accurate way of seeing casting time than to tell me what I'm doing wrong. So instead of trying to attack me how about you try to enlighten me if I am mistaken?


Edited, May 31st 2009 11:18pm by ElVendi
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#18 May 31 2009 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Using the casting bar as your 'observation' has many shortfalls. This is because it is easily affected by lag and other client side effects. 2 players can have the exact same gear and stats, and have 2 completely different "it fired at X% casting bar" results. Because it is client-side specific, it is not a useful tool for judging small differences in fast cast such as your AF shoes.

It's not about lying. A person can either lie or tell the truth as far as when the spell fired on their casting bar - the fact is what it fired at on your computer is not all that relevant to another person's computer.

I personally believe AF1 feet and AF2 head are between 2 and 3% fast cast. This information was derived based on Kuuhalee's Cure Casting Speed testing and using known tiers of cure client side casting times to determine fast cast. I had a pretty long forum debate with someone on FFXIWIKI forums about this. He maintains it is 5% fast cast based on his casting bar and using Reraise. I told him the exact same thing I posted here that client-side based casting bar observations are not accurate, but apparently he opted to go with his 5% fast cast when editing the wiki page.

I've seen 2/3%, 5%, 9%, and 10% thrown around as far as the fast cast amount on AF1 feet / AF2 head. The 5%, 9%, and 10% values were all based on the casting bar observations - just goes to show you how different it can be computer to computer. I really didn't care to personally continue the debate since I don't really use Wiki for game mechanics information and am rather sure of the 2/3%, but to anyone that cares, that's why the Wiki says its 5%. It went from 2.5% to 10% to 9% to 10% to 2.5% to now 5% over the last year. Check the edits.

As far as AF2 boots, I never had the pleasure of testing them. Those saying it is another -10% fast cast are either confusing it with recast timer %, extrapolating that since the recast is -10% that the fast cast must be too, are fooling themselves with the casting bar, or did some other test method I don't know about. Whatever it is, the -10% recast timer makes them worth macroing, especially if you use Spellcast.

Kaeko


Edited, Jun 1st 2009 1:26am by Kaeko
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#19 Jun 01 2009 at 4:54 AM Rating: Decent
thanks kaeko, for having the patience to say something I did not have the patience for at the time, but really, 2/3%?

would using a spell like rr with a long recast and looking at the cool-down timer be a good way to test this?

i'd be happy to run a few tests, tho i'm lacking the relic feet.

i was truly under the impression that it was much closer to rdm's AF hat/relic body #s.
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#20 Jun 01 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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Just for clarification, Kaeko, are you saying "2% or 3%" or are you saying "two-thirds of a percent" when you type "2/3%"?
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#21 Jun 01 2009 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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I currently own 4/5 relic pieces (missing Argute Mortarboard which refuses to drop). Here's my take on the pieces after using them.

Argute Gown:
Possibly one of our BEST relic pieces. If you get a chance to lot this item, don't turn it down. It effectively gives us a 4mp/tick Sublimation when combined with AF hat. The enhancing magic bonus is something I've never really needed. It's easy to hit the caps on Stoneskin and other buffs without this, so only really useful if you're casting Barspells.

Argute Pants:
Another great piece, but mostly for Aspir's and Drains. Since both of those spells work directly off your dark magic skill rather than INT or MND, it's extremely useful when paired with AF body as it's essentially a +22 to dark magic skill. I also own a Dark Torque which enhances it by a further +7, so it's easy to rack up high drains and aspirs. My record after getting these pants was a 340 Drain and a 190 aspir, and there's nothing more fun than the occasional Aspirga to restore your MP to full in one go!

Argute Bracers:
Basically a macro piece for the enfeebling magic skill. Not really much else to them. I tend to macro them in for heals and Sublimation as well, for the +3 MND, since the enmity down is exactly the same as the bonus on Errant Cuffs anyway and doesn't eat into your HP for Sublimation.

Argute Loafers:
Um... well a very situational piece. To be frank, I've never really found a good use for them. The Celerity/Alacrity effect is nice if you happen to be in the right weather to use them, but if you're casting nukes you're probably better off equipping an INT piece anyway, since the casting bonus really isn't that more noticeable than regular Alacrity. I'd rather have the extra damage than a tiny speed bonus.

Argute Motarboard:
No, I don't own it yet, but I still have an opinion on it. It's a nice piece in terms of maximum elemental skill, but that's about it. The only monsters you'll really want to maximise your Ele skill on are HNMs or particularly resistant BCNM mobs. For everything else you might be better off with AF hat or better for the INT.

Edited, Jun 1st 2009 12:37pm by Crystan
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#22 Jun 01 2009 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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2/3% means it is at worst, 2%, at best 3%. Sorry for the confusion. I got those values by using known tiers of client side firing rates on Cure 3/4/5 (basically Kuuhalee's testing). I could not pinpoint the exact value, only limit it. Basically, even though fast cast matters when you are casting a cure, the animation on how long it takes to fire is 'tiered' - so if you have say 0% fast cast and 15% fast cast, your cures will appear to take the same amount of time to fire (note, NOT the casting bar, but by counting frames).

The thread I was referring to is here:

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=19703&sid=29f81061b59b36de13e7f544950e6745&start=15

Honestly this is a very tough one to pin down so if you're really interested, I suggest reading the thread and both sides and reaching your own conclusions.
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#23 Jun 01 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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Thx for the post Kaeko. Read the link that you had mentioned here and the other one in the actual link you provided. lol... a lot of stuff. I dont believe i'm technically wrong in what i've posted. Mostly because i was specific about saying it was the "casting bar". Though I will agree that it is not 50% technically, which is pretty discouraging now. ><


Sir Crystan wrote:
Argute Loafers:
Um... well a very situational piece. To be frank, I've never really found a good use for them. The Celerity/Alacrity effect is nice if you happen to be in the right weather to use them, but if you're casting nukes you're probably better off equipping an INT piece anyway, since the casting bonus really isn't that more noticeable than regular Alacrity. I'd rather have the extra damage than a tiny speed bonus.


This was exactly what I was trying to say earlier, but with much less success. >.>
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#24 Jun 02 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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The +7 magic skill pieces are essentially a free magic skill torque level upgrade on a different slot and generally you can have your 'Enhance Dark Arts' Body AF piece or 'Enhance Light Arts' Leg AF piece and equip the relic to further boost the particular magic skill you need.
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