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Refresh on SchFollow

#1 May 08 2009 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
I guess I'm not so aware that a Rdm cannot refresh a Sch when they use sublimate?
But Brd, and cor can?

Never noticed the issue till my last few partys when I made the mid 60's on sch
Any comments on it?

. “Power even if it is raw uncontrolled potential is just as dangerous as a trained assassin. It is unpredictable and deadly if your are not prepared." ~Gatomon From the story A Fox Among Wolves.
#2 May 08 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Default
353 posts
I found this extremely annoying, and was hoping it would get fixed so only RDM/SCH couldn't generate so much MP on it's own (Combined they'd be like 5 or 6 MP/tic) solo, but I don't see why that has to impact on SCH, and never did the whole time I was levelling it. Just seems like lazy programming to me, unless i'm missing some other reason why it was put in place.

I'd hoped it would come up in an interview or something after sublimation was added, but no such luck.
#3 May 09 2009 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
2,976 posts
RDM/SCH is a generally a poor choice anyway, even if Refresh did stack with Sublimation. They'd need to switch arts too often to make good use of it or pay the extra MP and recast costs associated with casting the wrong type of spell. However, it'd be extremely useful for a nuking RDM. Chainspell + Nuke with a charge stored is a great way to deal damage fast, especially with Dark Arts which greatly reduces resists. Combined with the accuracy and damage gear available to RDM, and their own native MAB they could tear targets to shreds.

They could, of course, prevent Sublimation when SCH is subbed (like Call Wyvern on Dragoon), but that would annoy a LOT of other mages, especially WHM for whom SCH has now become the secondary profession of choice. To make RDM a special exception would be seen as unjustly cruel...
R.I.P. Crystan FFXI
#4 May 09 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
109 posts
As much as I ~wish~ I could have refresh + sublimation I understand that it would be too much. First off looking at rdm/sch. Fully geared rdm/sch could be getting 7mp tick in all areas, or 8mp tick in aht urghan and 9mp tick in assault. Sounds a little ridiculous to me. Sch/rdm(for overall things) fully geared with a rdm refreshing would also be getting 7mp tick, 8mp in aht urghan and 9mp in assaults.
As for other mage jobs(think blu mite be an exception), im fairly sure its 1mp less in all the areas i've mentioned.

Now look at a solo standpoint, rdm would always have those perks. Sch would go down to 4/5/6 in their respective locations and other mage/sch would be at 3/4/5.
Again, assuming optimum gear.

Rdm/sch would just pull too far away from other jobs in self efficientcy, which they already do. lol

@ Crystan..

I'm by no means a Rdm, lets just get that outta the way. So comment how you see fit about my logic... lol

refresh = sublimation, but only when casted on ones self. not others. Well... its close.

Refresh = 150mp - 40mp over 2min:30secs(keep into account that you spent 40mp)
sublimation = 100mp over 2min:30secs

**The argument can be made that you have to keep SS up to effectively use Sublimation, But I don't think I know any healer that doesn't already keep it up** >.>

As for swapping arts... or not swapping and getting the penalty for what your casting. That's a silly statement, You've leveled sch, how do you do it on sch? Theirs no difference between doing it on sch or /sch. You just have to rearrange your play style.

So we can agree that refresh or sublimation is essentially the same, or at best.. marginally different. Light arts and Dark arts swapping should not pose a problem, at least not any more than sch has.

As for Stratagems, /sch is kinda lol.. 2 gems with 2min timers. All I can say is better use them wisely.

I'm not an advocate of /sch by any means. But dismissing it as a poor choice just means you havent learned to adapt it into your rdm play style.

The thing I do advocate though, and I say it a lot in almost all of my posts. You have many subs, all being better at different events.

If ya think I left something out, or I'm mistaken about something. Please clarify so I dont look like a fool thinking otherwise >.>
Bst75, Sch75, Brd75, War75, Rdm75, Sam 75
#5 May 18 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
4,419 posts

That's not quite the case, at least with the advent of Composure. Composure + Refresh = 7:30 duration, 450 MP return for 40 MP, giving the edge to Refresh. That said, /SCH is still hot for Chainspell Nuking as Crystan said (or any nuking, really), especially if you preload a Sublimation charge to add even more MP to your barrage of nukes.

Edit: Also, /SCH lacks Erase, which can be big in some cases.

I'm not going to give you too rough of a time about it (since from your sig's job list you're not a RDM, and can't be expected to know), but as a RDM if you are capable of covering a duty, you are expected to, no matter what it is. That means running a Haste cycle while Enfeebling and Curing (XP party), Crowd control while Healing and running a Haste cycle (Nyzul), Refresh BLM party while Crowd controlling (Dynamis), and any combination of those things.

"Haste > Paralyze > Haste > Slow > Haste" is all fine and dandy, but when you get into "Haste > Sleep Add > Haste > Dispel > Haste > Gravity" it will eat up all your Strategems, leaving you stuck in an Art that isn't the best for all your spells, or with no Art on at all, which makes you wonder why you didn't just /WHM or /BLM (as the case may be). Don't get me wrong, /SCH rocks in the right situations, but it's just that, situational, at least for RDM.

Edited, May 18th 2009 1:50pm by Aliekber
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#6 May 18 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
109 posts

Just typed out this whole thing, but i erased it because it just makes me sound like a pompous idiot trying to still sound right. lol.

I'll simply put this.

Refresh(/composure) - Gives 450mp for 40mp cost. over 7:30mins
Sublimation - Gives 280mp over 7:30mins Including the 30sec gap in between using the ability.

You are completely right! Stupid of me to have forgotten about the update.

/sch does add some nice quirks to Rdm. But with the lack of strategems and recasts on them. You would at best.. balance mp consumption between arts. Which again you mentioned, why not use another sub that's much less complicated.

Thx for your civil reply ^^ /grin
Bst75, Sch75, Brd75, War75, Rdm75, Sam 75
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