So help me out here, hands optionsFollow

I'm trying to get a feel on what the best hands are in given situations, typically. This is what I've been using up until now

Argute- in all my enfeeb macros, sleep/grav/para etc
errant- pure int macro for helixes
Vicious- nuking macro that equips a balance of skill and matk/int, I manually change pieces based on mob
Genie- sky/hnm/high resist scenarios


I'm working on yigit hands to replace errant, and I just got goli hands. The 4 macc > 1matk of vicious for most things right? So I'm thinking I should just nuke most things in goli use vicious when klima is up?

and if I'm gearing for absolute max dmg, would yigit or vmitts be better?


What do you guys find yourself using and what works for you in most scenarios? For reference, I do znms, nyzul, einherjar and dynamis mainly

I'm not so sure that I would agree that Goliard Cuffs are better in every situation. Of course, on a basic stat comparison, the benefit of 4 M.ACC would outweigh the benefit of 1 MAB. If this were the only consideration when building gearsets, then yeah I would agree. But this is, of course, not the case.

Look at it this way:

Goliard Cuffs: M.ACC+4 MAB+4
Vicious Mufflers: MAB+5
Yigit Gages: INT+5 MND+5 MAB+2 (M.ACC+2.5)

The difference between Goliard and Yigit basically depends on how your INT score compares to your target's. Besides being clearly superior for helices, Yigit vs. Goliard is essentially INT+5 vs. MAB+2 M.ACC+1.5. Personally, i will always choose Yigit over Goliard for both max damage and median setups.

Keep in mind that you are debating what to use for a max damage set; Genie Gages are undisputed for resistant mobs. It makes little sense to sacrifice more damage on your max damage set for a paltry 1.5 M.ACC, or even 4 M.ACC if using Vicious Mufflers.

Speaking of deceptive stats on inferior gear, remember how every THF used to have a Heart Snatcher? Remember how long it took to finally get them to NPC the worthless thing? SCH, Goliard Cuffs are your Heart Snatcher. You've been warned.

4 M.ACC is not better than 1 MAB when your intention is max damage, as I believe I made quite clear. The key is to recognize which stats you can get in which slots, and to maximize the effectiveness of your overall build, not to make tunnel-vision pronouncements based on the stats of one piece of armor for one individual slot. You have plenty of other slots in which to place skill/M.ACC, and hands is a prime slot for damage gear. Giving up potential damage for a small amount of M.ACC in this slot is counterproductive and wasteful on all but the most resistant monsters.

Would you tell a melee job with near to capped accuracy to wear accuracy gear instead of haste, attack, or STR, simply because the sum of the stats on a particular piece of gear with accuracy is more than that of the damage gear? That is essentially your argument here.

I don't know what game you're playing, but my SCH has absolutely NO +Ele or +M.Accu in any of my Max Damage gear past HQ staves and I have floored resists on 95% of what I do in Endgame.

Shame to see a Novio go to waste.

The above post is proof that while you *might* be glancing over the above posts, you have neither truly read nor understood them.

We're talking about max damage. You use max damage on targets on which your accuracy is not an issue, therefore making accuracy a useless stat. Even Conserve MP, of all things, is going to do more for your efficiency than accuracy will on non-resistant mobs. Yet, still you think you're going to "outparse" everyone with your hybrid damage/accuracy pieces.

You should also put less stock in your parses... winning a parse means nothing. They only measure your effectiveness compared to the others in the parse. If you're truly interested in making yourself as effective as possible, you crunch numbers, test different setups, etc.

Let me give you a math problem which will hopefully show you where you're wrong about your max damage set:

95% accuracy + 5% accuracy = how much accuracy gained?

While max accuracy is nice, as I showed quite clearly in an above post using elementary-level math, it will not always result in the highest damage over time possible. If anything, focusing on accuracy too much will result in going over the 95% cap, essentially wasting space where you could add more damage.

There is no debate to be had, there are no opinions to argue, there are only numbers and facts.

You are wrong.

Woooooaaaahhhh. Really? Man, this is news to me. I need to sell all my MAB gear and stick to Macc/INT/skill then. Sounds like we are back in 2004 when people nuked exp mobs with elemental torque on. Come on, lets be realistic here. It is extremely easy to reach the Macc cap on puddings, and pretty much 90% of the mobs in the game. As a sch or blm you could probably do it half naked. Let me guess, Elemental torque is better than Caract Choker? Elemental earring is better than Morion +1/other 2INT options? Omega ring is better than Snow? Well according to your logic, the high Macc on these pieces is a perfectly fine exchange for the loss of damage.

Think about what you are saying before you say it. There is a time for these pieces and you want to gear for skill and magic accuracy. There are also just as many times when you will want to maximize your damage. If you are saying that you would go to a manaburn, or dynamis, or an assault and use Resist setup piece fulltime...you make my SCH disgusted. Sure, if you are nuking something with decent resist, maybe sea gods or hell dynamis NMs, sure wear goliard over Vmuffs.

We have the exact same gear set for max damage, except I know how to use mine. I know that Morgana's will definately outparse ACP body on max damage. I know that Vmuffs will definately outparse goliard on max damage. But hey, its ok, maybe you were thinking "max damage on mobs that resist a little bit not alot" and in that case you are probably right, Goliard > Vmuffs. But even then, I would sacrifice other slots before I sacrifice gloves.

The extra damage vs. puddings may not matter since they're dead already, but neither will the extra m.acc since your accuracy is capped on them regardless. Do you understand this concept yet? I do believe it's been explained several times by several people with undue patience up to this point.

Trying to covertly brag about your damage against puddings (lol) while attempting to force the issue to a draw is adorable, by the way.

You're still horribly, horribly wrong in every post you've made thus far in this thread. We can only hope that any impressionable readers haven't been swayed by your fascinating, detailed arguments concerning, well, anything.

Ebullience always on helix, 235. 254 on iceday which just makes killing puddings a joke in nuke efficiency vs blm.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=39979

Should always be nuking with hailstorm+obi unless its thundersday.

Cryo+Bliz4+Thunder4 will kill any pudding with modus (5/5 merits), lower level will die, higher level prolly need a drain (and the <20 damage added from vicious wouldn't kill it anyway). Your mileage may vary - if 1 MAB is all you need to kill a mob so it isn't left at 1%, then go for it. But if it isn't, there is no point in choosing 1 MAB over 4 MACC.

MAB does not affect drain.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 12:24pm by Ellatrix

You have jet seraweels.. sell that junk and get mahatma and go finish CoP.

Sorry I shouldn't have included that because i don't have concrete math/parses behind that comment but I've found that the Enhances effect of "Absorb" spells part of the gloves does. It shouldn't but I've had better returns on my Drains/Aspirs with them on than without.


Ah forgot about adding merits for it. I've neglected those since for my style helix is exp only sorta thing and not a high priority.

I'm career mage, so maxed MP INT Elemental Enfeebling of course. Looking at your current merits, I'd probably focus on finishing up MP first, then INT. SCH specific merits i did the same with one exception:

Sublimation x5
Helix m.acc/m.atk x5
Focalization x4
Enlightenment x1
Stormsurge x5

Helix m.acc/m.atk is the obvious 5/5 choice; Arts Recast the obvious 0/5 choice. It took me a long time to decide between meriting Modus Veritas and Sublimation; really they're both small upgrades. If MV merits reduced the recast I would've gone 5/5 on that for sure, but +25% damage on a helix every 10 minutes, while nice and all, just wouldn't be used nearly enough to justify the merits. If I were a 100% Dark Arts at all times SCH, yeah, MV all the way, but that's just not the case for me. Not that Sublimation merits are awesome or anything, the increase to your efficiency is small, but it's a bonus that you'll receive pretty much constantly no matter what situation you find yourself in. Also, they're nice to have when you want to go into an event with the largest possible Sublimation stock, like Limbus. Throw on some HP equipment to get to 1400HP, and that's a 400MP stock right there. Again, I don't want to make it sound like Sublimation merits > MV merits for everyone, that's just the choice I ended up making, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Stormsurge and Helix m.acc/m.atk are no-brainers of course, but the remaining category 2 merits are difficult. I agree that unlocking Enlightenment is something everyone should do, simply because of the versatility if offers. However the last 4 points are kind of difficult to decide on. Both Light Arts Strategems are useless of course. Focalization seems the obvious choice and that's what I ended up meriting, but I did give serious thought to Equanimity.

My logic goes like this: I'd only really ever use either during Tabula Rasa nuke spam, during which I would have the appropriate Storm + Klimaform up, making Focalization kind of redundant. On the other hand, Equanimity is completely useless while soloing. However, in a party situation, Equanimity could come in handy by eliminating the need to hold back, allowing you to spam as many nukes as possible without fear of death. In the end I went with Focalization because my LS has me on Light Arts during events more often than not, but I think Equanimity deserves a serious look, depending on what you use your SCH for.

Gaining Sea access should definitely be a priority though, very few upgrades will increase your damage like a Hyorin Obi will. Obis, AF+1, Capes, Prudence Torque, Relaxing/Novio/Novia Earrings.. all these excellent upgrades from a zone that is particularly SCH-friendly. Everything I listed you can obtain solo with the exception of the Torque, Novio, and Novia earrings.

Speaking of soloing, I really encourage you to abandon puddings and never look back. As a SCH you can farm VT/IT mobs solo faster and more efficiently than any other job in the game, and make 5~7k/hr doing it. Of course that isn't what you'd get on puddings, but who cares? You can make lots of money while you're at it farming Sky/Sea triggers, like Aura Statues for Diorite/Autumnstones, or Ix'aerns for Deeds/Capes. When you factor in the gil/gear gained on top of the xp earned, you'll wonder why you ever stepped foot on Mt. Zhayolm in the first place. Honestly, Puddings are for chumps.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 4:09pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 7:07pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm still up in the air on MV merits vs Sublimation merits, I guess I'll see what benefits me more as I solo more.

I use cream puffs, but when I decided to start looking at my dmg on helixes on average on puddings I didn't have any on me so I just said without food to indicate that wasn't the dmg with the +7 int from food.

Personally i go with the entire cobra set + Morgana's coat. /w mAcc from the cobra set I've yet to see any significant resists /w Morgana's on.

But, this is not the highest damage set. Just easy to obtain for a "casual" FFXI player such as myself with fairly decent results

And lolmAcc is not > MAB anytime. No added damage = no thanks. Personally +1INT > 4 mAcc IMO.

ROFLMFAO, do you even know what a wiki is? how about you wiki "wiki" first before making statements that really make you look uneducated...



Given your prior statement of going to a wiki for facts (LOL) i doubt anyone was listinging here, but i'd like you to back that up please? how is corba + morgana's like nuking with MND gear? (something you got from a wiki maybe?)

Morgana's is retarded under any situation. You don't see melee using -ACC to hit stuff, do you? Also cobra set is garbage (for nuking) at 75 when you have far better options available.

Doing the maximum damage when resist are not an issue is not retarded, i don't know where you got that exactly, i'v never had any issues with nuking in morganas, and was producing more damage then any other peice i nuke with, nor am i even convinced you can compare magic accuracy to meele accuracy, the rules with morgans are just as been said in previous posts,

You just have to know when to use it, since SCH can control there magic accuracy, you can effectivly negate that - 8 very easily. thru klimaform and even just have weather and obi on, morganas is not as bad as you think it is. just don't nuke high resistant mobs with it. - accuracy for meele is simply a chance for them to miss more, magic cannot miss, it just simply reduces the damage, i don't think it's fair to compare those.

Edited, May 4th 2009 10:51am by OrochiLede

As the other poster has said, this is counter-productive. Wearing Morgana + Cobra is inferior to a regular nuking set in both damage AND accuracy.

Full Cobra give this relevant stats:
Magic Atk. Bonus +8
M.Accu +4

Paired with morganas, you get a total of:
16 MAB and -4 M.Accu

Af Head, Errant Body, Yigit Hands, Mahatma Slops, and Yigit Crackows give:
INT+30
MAB +4

The 30 INT would give +15 M.Accu in the worst case scenario; which obliterates your set's -4 M.Accu.

And if we go by the Tier IV aproximation of 1MAB = ~2INT for damage (not exact, but close): We'd be comparing the equivalent of 19MAB for errant, against 16 from your set.

In short: Stop using Cobra gear. The only acceptable piece is the feet if you don't have Yigit.

This on most things. Similar to Yigit Crackows Vs. Goliard Clogs, the 2MAB slightly outperforms 1INT.