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So help me out here, hands optionsFollow

#1 Apr 21 2009 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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I'm trying to get a feel on what the best hands are in given situations, typically. This is what I've been using up until now

Argute- in all my enfeeb macros, sleep/grav/para etc
errant- pure int macro for helixes
Vicious- nuking macro that equips a balance of skill and matk/int, I manually change pieces based on mob
Genie- sky/hnm/high resist scenarios


I'm working on yigit hands to replace errant, and I just got goli hands. The 4 macc > 1matk of vicious for most things right? So I'm thinking I should just nuke most things in goli use vicious when klima is up?

and if I'm gearing for absolute max dmg, would yigit or vmitts be better?


What do you guys find yourself using and what works for you in most scenarios? For reference, I do znms, nyzul, einherjar and dynamis mainly
#2 Apr 21 2009 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Yigit is best for helix. I tossed my vicious mufflers since Goliard is better in all situations.

Edited, Apr 21st 2009 11:59pm by Ellatrix
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#3 Apr 22 2009 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not so sure that I would agree that Goliard Cuffs are better in every situation. Of course, on a basic stat comparison, the benefit of 4 M.ACC would outweigh the benefit of 1 MAB. If this were the only consideration when building gearsets, then yeah I would agree. But this is, of course, not the case.

Look at it this way:

Goliard Cuffs: M.ACC+4 MAB+4
Vicious Mufflers: MAB+5
Yigit Gages: INT+5 MND+5 MAB+2 (M.ACC+2.5)

The difference between Goliard and Yigit basically depends on how your INT score compares to your target's. Besides being clearly superior for helices, Yigit vs. Goliard is essentially INT+5 vs. MAB+2 M.ACC+1.5. Personally, i will always choose Yigit over Goliard for both max damage and median setups.

Keep in mind that you are debating what to use for a max damage set; Genie Gages are undisputed for resistant mobs. It makes little sense to sacrifice more damage on your max damage set for a paltry 1.5 M.ACC, or even 4 M.ACC if using Vicious Mufflers.

Speaking of deceptive stats on inferior gear, remember how every THF used to have a Heart Snatcher? Remember how long it took to finally get them to NPC the worthless thing? SCH, Goliard Cuffs are your Heart Snatcher. You've been warned.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#4 Apr 22 2009 at 2:10 AM Rating: Decent
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4macc > 1mab
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#5 Apr 22 2009 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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4 M.ACC is not better than 1 MAB when your intention is max damage, as I believe I made quite clear. The key is to recognize which stats you can get in which slots, and to maximize the effectiveness of your overall build, not to make tunnel-vision pronouncements based on the stats of one piece of armor for one individual slot. You have plenty of other slots in which to place skill/M.ACC, and hands is a prime slot for damage gear. Giving up potential damage for a small amount of M.ACC in this slot is counterproductive and wasteful on all but the most resistant monsters.

Would you tell a melee job with near to capped accuracy to wear accuracy gear instead of haste, attack, or STR, simply because the sum of the stats on a particular piece of gear with accuracy is more than that of the damage gear? That is essentially your argument here.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#6 Apr 22 2009 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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Ellatrix wrote:
4macc > 1mab


No

LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
4 M.ACC is not better than 1 MAB when your intention is max damage


This

If you need an all-around nuking piece, then Goliard wins over Vicious. If, however, space is less of an issue, and/or you have a high-/mid-/and low-skill gear set, then Vicious will still raise your overall damage by more than Goliard can.

It's the same principle as Morgana's coat. If resists are not an issue, Morgana's coat is the nuking body of choice.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 10:06am by Acturus
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#7Ellatrix, Posted: Apr 22 2009 at 12:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Morgana's is 100% junk, especially with ACP body available.
#8 Apr 22 2009 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Morgana's? Junk??? Compared to ACP body??????

I think you need to read up on the damage formulas, sir.

You can easily use Morgana's in a max damage setup.. I suggest you get one and test it out before you make these uninformed "100%" statements you're so fond of. Besides, Klimaform is there for a reason.

Oh and by the way, if I deal a mere 5~7 points of damage per nuke more than you at 94% accuracy than you do at 95% accuracy, I win (And I would easily achieve this by using Vicious Mufflers over your professed "best for every situation" Goliard Cuffs, inb4 your gear is better than mine with no proof.). The math should be obvious to, well, anyone, but here it is anyway:

Assume the difference between 94% and 95% accuracy, given equal damage dealt on non resist, over 100 casts, is one half-resist.
One half-resisted nuke of anywhere from 1000-1400 damage = 500~700.
500~700 damage advantage of 95% accuracy spread over 100 casts = 5~7.

Accuracy caps, Damage does not. Again, read the formulas and think critically.

And I assure you, your nuking gear is not "significantly better" than mine, especially since you apparently eschew the use of two of the best MAB pieces available, Morgana's and Vicious. How you can even make such a claim without seeing mine or anyone else's gear is beyond me, but I suppose it does fit with your general strategy of spouting misinformation.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#9 Apr 22 2009 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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SCH doesn't have a high enough elemental score to get away with nuking in no skill/macc and still be capped on resist rate. Even if you're at 94%, I'll be at 95% and do more damage overall. I am also 100% sure my nuking gear is significantly better than yours.


I don't know what game you're playing, but my SCH has absolutely NO +Ele or +M.Accu in any of my Max Damage gear past HQ staves and I have floored resists on 95% of what I do in Endgame.

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#10 Apr 22 2009 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Nuke Gear
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#11 Apr 22 2009 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Shame to see a Novio go to waste.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#12 Apr 22 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Default
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You'd like my BLM too, then.

Shame to see people value epeen damage over consistency and coming out on top on parser. Enjoy your endgame of nuking Leaping Lizzy with 1 more mab then. I'll agree and say macc is not needed there.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 4:03pm by Ellatrix
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#13 Apr 22 2009 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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The above post is proof that while you *might* be glancing over the above posts, you have neither truly read nor understood them.

We're talking about max damage. You use max damage on targets on which your accuracy is not an issue, therefore making accuracy a useless stat. Even Conserve MP, of all things, is going to do more for your efficiency than accuracy will on non-resistant mobs. Yet, still you think you're going to "outparse" everyone with your hybrid damage/accuracy pieces.

You should also put less stock in your parses... winning a parse means nothing. They only measure your effectiveness compared to the others in the parse. If you're truly interested in making yourself as effective as possible, you crunch numbers, test different setups, etc.

Let me give you a math problem which will hopefully show you where you're wrong about your max damage set:

95% accuracy + 5% accuracy = how much accuracy gained?

While max accuracy is nice, as I showed quite clearly in an above post using elementary-level math, it will not always result in the highest damage over time possible. If anything, focusing on accuracy too much will result in going over the 95% cap, essentially wasting space where you could add more damage.

There is no debate to be had, there are no opinions to argue, there are only numbers and facts.

You are wrong.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#14 Apr 22 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ellatrix wrote:

SCH doesn't have a high enough elemental score to get away with nuking in no skill/macc and still be capped on resist rate. Even if you're at 94%, I'll be at 95% and do more damage overall. I am also 100% sure my nuking gear is significantly better than yours.


Just expanding on LyltiaofLakshmi's summarized math to make it more clear.

I don't know mithra's base INT but this calculator has it at 70 same as hume so lets use your gear and then just swap out Vicious Mufflers in what you took a screenshot of.

Looking at the screen shot you provided I see +53 INT in gear.
Using that it would be:

INT: 70 + 5 (merits guess) + 7 (cream pie) + 7 (hailstorm) + 53 (gear) = 137

MAB(SCH/RDM):
Yours: 1.2 + 0.22 (gear) = 1.42
Vicious: 1.2 + 0.23 (gear) = 1.43

Picking Puddings since that's typically the most common mob a SCH would use a max damage build on which has a base 89 INT.

Blizzard IV: ((yourINT - targetINT) * 2 + 506) * (resist multiplier) * (staff) * (day/weather Bonus) * (1.00 + yourMAB)/(1.00 + targetMDB) * (target damage adjust)

Nuke Damage (excluding day/weather bonus and resist rate):
Yours: ((137 - 89) * 2 + 506) * 1 * 1.15 * 1 * (1.42)/1 * 1.25 = 1228
Vicious: ((137 - 89) * 2 + 506) * 1 * 1.15 * 1 * (1.43)/1 * 1.25 = 1237

Now lets assume both will get a full resist 1/2 damage at their respective percentages according to your numbers so 95% versus 94%. Also lets do the test over 100 nukes to make it easy to calculate.

Yours: (1228 * 95) + (614 * 5) = 116,660 + 3,070 = 119,730
Vicious: (1237 * 94) + (618 * 6) = 116,278 + 3,708 = 119,986

In other words your numbers are wrong, your build is "significantly" weaker by 256 damage.

Lets say the difference was 2% instead of just 1%.
Yours: (1228 * 95) + (614 * 5) = 116,660 + 3,070 = 119,730
Vicious: (1237 * 93) + (618 * 7) = 115,041 + 4,326 = 119,367

So your Goliard Cuffs would need to give you 2% ACC over Vicious Mufflers to out damage them...

Edit: Don't get me wrong Goliard are very nice gloves for any job that can use them seeking MAB that doesn't have or can't use Vicious Mufflers or Zenith Mitts/+1.

I'm sorry if this comes off as an attack towards you Ellatrix but I don't like when people spout off some armor being better than another armor based on numbers pulled out of their butt when those numbers themselves are wrong.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2009 6:34pm by Zagen
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#15 Apr 23 2009 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent
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SCH doesn't have a high enough elemental score to get away with nuking in no skill/macc and still be capped on resist rate. Even if you're at 94%, I'll be at 95% and do more damage overall. I am also 100% sure my nuking gear is significantly better than yours.


Woooooaaaahhhh. Really? Man, this is news to me. I need to sell all my MAB gear and stick to Macc/INT/skill then. Sounds like we are back in 2004 when people nuked exp mobs with elemental torque on. Come on, lets be realistic here. It is extremely easy to reach the Macc cap on puddings, and pretty much 90% of the mobs in the game. As a sch or blm you could probably do it half naked. Let me guess, Elemental torque is better than Caract Choker? Elemental earring is better than Morion +1/other 2INT options? Omega ring is better than Snow? Well according to your logic, the high Macc on these pieces is a perfectly fine exchange for the loss of damage.

Think about what you are saying before you say it. There is a time for these pieces and you want to gear for skill and magic accuracy. There are also just as many times when you will want to maximize your damage. If you are saying that you would go to a manaburn, or dynamis, or an assault and use Resist setup piece fulltime...you make my SCH disgusted. Sure, if you are nuking something with decent resist, maybe sea gods or hell dynamis NMs, sure wear goliard over Vmuffs.

We have the exact same gear set for max damage, except I know how to use mine. I know that Morgana's will definately outparse ACP body on max damage. I know that Vmuffs will definately outparse goliard on max damage. But hey, its ok, maybe you were thinking "max damage on mobs that resist a little bit not alot" and in that case you are probably right, Goliard > Vmuffs. But even then, I would sacrifice other slots before I sacrifice gloves.
#16 Apr 24 2009 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you for the math. Since you chose puddings..

Let's put forward the following idea: A mob is dead when it runs out of HP, and excess damage does nothing. I figured I'd go out and nuke some puddings just to refresh my memory:

Cryohelix + Blizzard4 + Thunder4 = dead pudding

Thus, it is better to get fewer resists instead of doing extra damage that is meaningless.
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#17 Apr 24 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Default
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The extra damage vs. puddings may not matter since they're dead already, but neither will the extra m.acc since your accuracy is capped on them regardless. Do you understand this concept yet? I do believe it's been explained several times by several people with undue patience up to this point.

Trying to covertly brag about your damage against puddings (lol) while attempting to force the issue to a draw is adorable, by the way.

You're still horribly, horribly wrong in every post you've made thus far in this thread. We can only hope that any impressionable readers haven't been swayed by your fascinating, detailed arguments concerning, well, anything.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#18 Apr 24 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ellatrix wrote:
Thank you for the math. Since you chose puddings..

Let's put forward the following idea: A mob is dead when it runs out of HP, and excess damage does nothing. I figured I'd go out and nuke some puddings just to refresh my memory:

Cryohelix + Blizzard4 + Thunder4 = dead pudding

Interesting I'd like to see damage numbers (a parse would be awesome) for that its not that I don't believe you, I just don't see the math adding up correctly on every pudding since they have 4,500-5,500 HP.

Blizzard IV: ((137 - 89) * 2 + 506) * 1 * 1.15 * 1 * (1.42)/1 * 1.25 = 1228
Thunder IV: ((137 - 89) * 2 + 541) * 1 * 1.15 * 1 * (1.42)/1 * 1.25 = 1300
Total 1228 + 1300 = 2528
Helix calculated using this site(seems about right): 185 * 10 = 1850
New Total: 2528 + 1850 = 4378

That's not even enough to kill the weakest pudding. Did you forget to include drain? because if you did Vicious would be even better since from my testing it has boosted my Drain damage. Or maybe you're using Ebullience on Cryohelix.

Ok redid it with using Ebullience on Helix which gets the over 200/tick you'd need for the weakest ones.

Helix calculated using this site(seems about right) with Ebullience: 209 * 10 = 2090
New Total: 2528 + 2090 = 4618

So you can kill the weaker puddings but that's still not enough for the higher end ones. Unless you're using Ebullience on all 3 in which case leads to a whole other argument about Ebullience vs. Parsimony usage. Also that defeats your argument because Stratagem recharge rate limits how fast you can kill mobs with less nukes if you're using more than 1-2 per mob.

Obviously adding in weather/day bonus to the nukes will get this closer to killing the weakest pudding but again you can't rely on them kicking in when you aren't using Obis over P. Rope.

Also none of this takes into account that 5% per spell you're still gonna get resisted since there is an ACC cap.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 11:50am by Zagen
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#19 Apr 24 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Ebullience always on helix, 235. 254 on iceday which just makes killing puddings a joke in nuke efficiency vs blm.
http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=39979

Should always be nuking with hailstorm+obi unless its thundersday.

Cryo+Bliz4+Thunder4 will kill any pudding with modus (5/5 merits), lower level will die, higher level prolly need a drain (and the <20 damage added from vicious wouldn't kill it anyway). Your mileage may vary - if 1 MAB is all you need to kill a mob so it isn't left at 1%, then go for it. But if it isn't, there is no point in choosing 1 MAB over 4 MACC.

MAB does not affect drain.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 12:24pm by Ellatrix
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#20 Apr 24 2009 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Without making another thread I'll just go ahead and ask you guys a few more questions here. I appreciate the help thus far, as well.


What did you all do merit wise?

I was thinking

5/5 MV
5/5 Helix acc/att

4/5 Focalization
1/5 Enlightenment
5/5 Stormsurge


I like having Enlightenment unlocked for the odd RR or r2 without wasting a charge, sleeping a link in light arts in nyzul, etc so I'm definitely keeping that but are there any other options aside from the above? I use my sch mainly for nuking in various events and soloing, not so much for curing and support.

I dont have access to sea to so no obis, prudence torque, or AF+1 for me, sadly.


So far my merits are

0/5 INT
1/8 MP
8/8 elemental magic
8/8 enfeebling magic
1/5 MV
3/5 Helix
1/5 Focalization
1/5 Enlightenment
5/5 Stormsurge

When soloing puddings I find myself with just not enough MP to keep chain going even spamming parsimony and aspir so I definitely need to beef up the MP merits but what do you guys think should take priority for me to merit next to best increase efficiency in soloing and dyna/nyzul/einherjar and the like?

As a hume sch/rdm my cryohelixes are landing for 180ish without food on puddings.

#21 Apr 24 2009 at 12:35 PM Rating: Default
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You have jet seraweels.. sell that junk and get mahatma and go finish CoP.
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#22 Apr 24 2009 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't realizing finishing CoP automatically filled out the rest of my sch merits. This whole time I've been joining merit PTs when I could have just finished CoP instead. Damn.
#23 Apr 24 2009 at 12:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ellatrix wrote:
MAB does not affect drain.

Sorry I shouldn't have included that because i don't have concrete math/parses behind that comment but I've found that the Enhances effect of "Absorb" spells part of the gloves does. It shouldn't but I've had better returns on my Drains/Aspirs with them on than without.

Ellatrix wrote:
Cryo+Bliz4+Thunder4 will kill any pudding with modus (5/5 merits)

Ah forgot about adding merits for it. I've neglected those since for my style helix is exp only sorta thing and not a high priority.

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#24 Apr 24 2009 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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Logiks wrote:
Without making another thread I'll just go ahead and ask you guys a few more questions here. I appreciate the help thus far, as well.

I dont have access to sea to so no obis, prudence torque, or AF+1 for me, sadly.


Ellatrix comment about finishing CoP more than likely is for 2 reasons 1) you can get Tamas, free Snow Ring (sorta) and 2) to get Obis which make a difference on your nuking damage for non resistant mobs.

As to merits I've slacked on SCH been playing around on COR a bit lately but my goal is:

INT 5/5
HP/MP 8/8 I haven't decided which I'm gonna do because MP doesn't help other jobs I'm interested in much but HP does help other jobs and even SCH through Sublimation.
Elemental Skill 8/8
Enfeebling Skill 8/8
Modus Veritas Duration 5/5
Helix Magic Acc./Atk. 5.5
Stormsurge 5/5 - IMO only tier 2 really worth meriting

Unfortunately because of Dynamis/NMs/Nyzul/Etc I find myself rebuilding my buffer more than meriting on SCH lately. But so far I've got:

Elemental Skill 5/8
Enfeebling Skill 2/8
Stormsurge 2/5

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 2:14pm by Zagen
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#25 Apr 24 2009 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm career mage, so maxed MP INT Elemental Enfeebling of course. Looking at your current merits, I'd probably focus on finishing up MP first, then INT. SCH specific merits i did the same with one exception:

Sublimation x5
Helix m.acc/m.atk x5
Focalization x4
Enlightenment x1
Stormsurge x5

Helix m.acc/m.atk is the obvious 5/5 choice; Arts Recast the obvious 0/5 choice. It took me a long time to decide between meriting Modus Veritas and Sublimation; really they're both small upgrades. If MV merits reduced the recast I would've gone 5/5 on that for sure, but +25% damage on a helix every 10 minutes, while nice and all, just wouldn't be used nearly enough to justify the merits. If I were a 100% Dark Arts at all times SCH, yeah, MV all the way, but that's just not the case for me. Not that Sublimation merits are awesome or anything, the increase to your efficiency is small, but it's a bonus that you'll receive pretty much constantly no matter what situation you find yourself in. Also, they're nice to have when you want to go into an event with the largest possible Sublimation stock, like Limbus. Throw on some HP equipment to get to 1400HP, and that's a 400MP stock right there. Again, I don't want to make it sound like Sublimation merits > MV merits for everyone, that's just the choice I ended up making, and I'm pretty happy with it.

Stormsurge and Helix m.acc/m.atk are no-brainers of course, but the remaining category 2 merits are difficult. I agree that unlocking Enlightenment is something everyone should do, simply because of the versatility if offers. However the last 4 points are kind of difficult to decide on. Both Light Arts Strategems are useless of course. Focalization seems the obvious choice and that's what I ended up meriting, but I did give serious thought to Equanimity.

My logic goes like this: I'd only really ever use either during Tabula Rasa nuke spam, during which I would have the appropriate Storm + Klimaform up, making Focalization kind of redundant. On the other hand, Equanimity is completely useless while soloing. However, in a party situation, Equanimity could come in handy by eliminating the need to hold back, allowing you to spam as many nukes as possible without fear of death. In the end I went with Focalization because my LS has me on Light Arts during events more often than not, but I think Equanimity deserves a serious look, depending on what you use your SCH for.

Gaining Sea access should definitely be a priority though, very few upgrades will increase your damage like a Hyorin Obi will. Obis, AF+1, Capes, Prudence Torque, Relaxing/Novio/Novia Earrings.. all these excellent upgrades from a zone that is particularly SCH-friendly. Everything I listed you can obtain solo with the exception of the Torque, Novio, and Novia earrings.

Speaking of soloing, I really encourage you to abandon puddings and never look back. As a SCH you can farm VT/IT mobs solo faster and more efficiently than any other job in the game, and make 5~7k/hr doing it. Of course that isn't what you'd get on puddings, but who cares? You can make lots of money while you're at it farming Sky/Sea triggers, like Aura Statues for Diorite/Autumnstones, or Ix'aerns for Deeds/Capes. When you factor in the gil/gear gained on top of the xp earned, you'll wonder why you ever stepped foot on Mt. Zhayolm in the first place. Honestly, Puddings are for chumps.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 4:09pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 7:07pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#26 Apr 27 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Trying to covertly brag about your damage against puddings (lol) while attempting to force the issue to a draw is adorable, by the way.


Noticed this a bit back towards the top...but the reason people refer to puddings as a general "base" for SCH and BLM is because 99.9% of SCH and BLM have at some point nuked a pudding. It's also the easiest mob to test a certain magic setup on while getting merits. Comparability and consistency is the key.

To answer the OP on merits...I would suggest:
8/8 Elemental
5/5 Helix
5/5 Stormsurge

After that, I personally have:
5/5 INT
4/8 Dark
4/8 Enfeebling
5/5 Sublimation
8/8 MP

Now that I've gotten a few more pieces of gear for my Dark Magic set I will probably remove the 4 dark merits and move them to enfeebling. Most people frown on Dark Magic merits anyway, but I really have found them to be benefitial for soloing.

I also notice the comment that you don't eat food? Or do you mean without food that's the damage you do? Eat cream puffs. 7k for 6 hours of soloing, that will increase your damage substantially. Make sure you are casting the proper storm spell for your helices. Helices get the day/weather bonus even without Sea Obis. Work on CoP when you can, Sea obis really make your SCH nuking exponentially better. Adding a straight 10% to every cast you make more than likely trumps any other piece of gear aside from elemental staves.

Edited, Apr 27th 2009 3:12pm by haleoale
#27 Apr 27 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for the input everyone.

I'm still up in the air on MV merits vs Sublimation merits, I guess I'll see what benefits me more as I solo more.

I use cream puffs, but when I decided to start looking at my dmg on helixes on average on puddings I didn't have any on me so I just said without food to indicate that wasn't the dmg with the +7 int from food.
#28 Apr 28 2009 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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As far as the choice between MV and sublimation. I personally went with sublimation because I have Argute Gown. When you are getting back 4MP/tick, the longer sublimation is active the higher its efficiency. For me, being able to get back 320MP every few minutes outweights being able to increase your MV once every 10minutes. If you dont have the argute gown yet, I think the choice is a little closer.
#29 May 01 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Default
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Personally i go with the entire cobra set + Morgana's coat. /w mAcc from the cobra set I've yet to see any significant resists /w Morgana's on.

But, this is not the highest damage set. Just easy to obtain for a "casual" FFXI player such as myself with fairly decent results

And lolmAcc is not > MAB anytime. No added damage = no thanks. Personally +1INT > 4 mAcc IMO.
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#30 May 01 2009 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Ugh again with the opinions.

There are no valid opinions for what gear is better or worse concerning nuking.

Go to wiki, find the Magic Damage formula, plug in numbers, and voila! You have the answer! Not somebody's IMO, but the real answer based on facts!

It's really not difficult. -.-

And to above poster, 1 INT > 4 M.ACC? Just be aware that's your opinion, and it's gonna be wrong in a lot of situations. IDC what you think from eyeballing your numbers, it's based on math, there's a right answer and a wrong answer.

Also, nuking in Cobra + Morgana's? Please nobody take this as a serious answer, as that's about as fail as you can get, short of nuking in MND gear. >.>
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#31 May 03 2009 at 3:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Go to wiki, find the Magic Damage formula, plug in numbers, and voila! You have the answer! Not somebody's IMO, but the real answer based on facts!


ROFLMFAO, do you even know what a wiki is? how about you wiki "wiki" first before making statements that really make you look uneducated...

Quote:
Also, nuking in Cobra + Morgana's? Please nobody take this as a serious answer, as that's about as fail as you can get, short of nuking in MND gear. >.>


Given your prior statement of going to a wiki for facts (LOL) i doubt anyone was listinging here, but i'd like you to back that up please? how is corba + morgana's like nuking with MND gear? (something you got from a wiki maybe?)
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#32 May 03 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Edit, Nevermind, the feet are about the only peice that is really useful of the cobra set..and even then i have a hard time using them over goliard feet.

Edited, May 3rd 2009 10:36am by OrochiLede
#33 May 03 2009 at 10:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Morgana's is retarded under any situation. You don't see melee using -ACC to hit stuff, do you? Also cobra set is garbage (for nuking) at 75 when you have far better options available.
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#34 May 04 2009 at 2:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ellatrix wrote:
Morgana's is retarded under any situation. You don't see melee using -ACC to hit stuff, do you? Also cobra set is garbage (for nuking) at 75 when you have far better options available.


That's only true because there isn't a piece with -acc on it where other benefits make it a viable option. If one were, the positive stats would have to be weighed against the -acc and then compared to your other options, and then there'd still be a lot of questions you'd have to ask to determine which would be more beneficial to wear (What are you fighting? Can you make up the acc in other slots? How much would be losing if you did? Are you capping acc or close to it? etc.)
#35 May 04 2009 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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Ellatrix wrote:
Morgana's is retarded under any situation. You don't see melee using -ACC to hit stuff, do you? Also cobra set is garbage (for nuking) at 75 when you have far better options available.



Doing the maximum damage when resist are not an issue is not retarded, i don't know where you got that exactly, i'v never had any issues with nuking in morganas, and was producing more damage then any other peice i nuke with, nor am i even convinced you can compare magic accuracy to meele accuracy, the rules with morgans are just as been said in previous posts,

You just have to know when to use it, since SCH can control there magic accuracy, you can effectivly negate that - 8 very easily. thru klimaform and even just have weather and obi on, morganas is not as bad as you think it is. just don't nuke high resistant mobs with it. - accuracy for meele is simply a chance for them to miss more, magic cannot miss, it just simply reduces the damage, i don't think it's fair to compare those.

Edited, May 4th 2009 10:51am by OrochiLede
#36 May 05 2009 at 12:02 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
ROFLMFAO, do you even know what a wiki is? how about you wiki "wiki" first before making statements that really make you look uneducated...


Pretty sure using "ROFLMFAO" kinda disqualifies you from making judgements on who 'looks educated' on the internet. Then there's the spelling, but that's a different beast entirely.

Quote:
Given your prior statement of going to a wiki for facts (LOL) i doubt anyone was listinging here


The magic damage formula on FFXIwiki is 100% accurate and is corroborated by many other sources. Didn't feel like digging them up to make a link while writing the post, so I referenced a well-known, easy to navigate website... I'm not sure exactly what point you were trying to make there, Sideways. Nowhere did I state that everything on wiki was 100% accurate; why would you respond as if I did?

Quote:
but i'd like you to back that up please? how is corba + morgana's like nuking with MND gear? (something you got from a wiki maybe?)


In regards to nuking in Morgana's + Cobra being retarded? Well yeah, it is. Nuking in MND gear is also retarded. Thus, they are somewhat similar (Hint: Because they're both retarded.) Why would you focus other slots entirely towards making up for the negative aspects of one particular piece? It goes against the entire logic of how gear and macros are used in FFXI. We use macros to constantly switch gear to maximize whatever task we're performing at the moment; using a combination like Morgana's + Cobra is a zero-sum approach to a min/max game. It fails.

Morgana's is for those situations where you have enough accuracy over the cap that the M.Acc-8 will not lower your real accuracy. You would get far better results from using gear that uniformly improves your stats, instead of compensating for negatives. The 'nuking in MND gear' statement was merely an example used to illustrate my point.

To the rest of the posters that think Morgana's is trash:

You don't have to use full accuracy gear against everything you fight. In fact, on most everything outside HNM, your accuracy is already more than capped (especially if you have elemental merits), so the negative accuracy from Morgana's will not drop your real accuracy below 95%.

You have macros. Books and books of space for macros. If you don't have at least 3 different sets of nuking gear for different situations (and you should have more), you are doing it very, very wrong.

Edited, May 5th 2009 1:23am by LyltiaofLakshmi
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#37 May 05 2009 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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sideways wrote:
Personally i go with the entire cobra set + Morgana's coat. /w mAcc from the cobra set I've yet to see any significant resists /w Morgana's on.


As the other poster has said, this is counter-productive. Wearing Morgana + Cobra is inferior to a regular nuking set in both damage AND accuracy.

Full Cobra give this relevant stats:
Magic Atk. Bonus +8
M.Accu +4

Paired with morganas, you get a total of:
16 MAB and -4 M.Accu

Af Head, Errant Body, Yigit Hands, Mahatma Slops, and Yigit Crackows give:
INT+30
MAB +4

The 30 INT would give +15 M.Accu in the worst case scenario; which obliterates your set's -4 M.Accu.

And if we go by the Tier IV aproximation of 1MAB = ~2INT for damage (not exact, but close): We'd be comparing the equivalent of 19MAB for errant, against 16 from your set.

In short: Stop using Cobra gear. The only acceptable piece is the feet if you don't have Yigit.
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#38 May 13 2009 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't seen Mahatma hands mentioned in this thread. Unless I've missed something, they have the most int you can get in the hands slot, with 6 int total. I was just wondering if these may be best for helixes? Yigit seems to be its only competition for helixes at 5 int, 2 MAB. Any thoughts?
#39 May 13 2009 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yigit seems to be its only competition for helixes at 5 int, 2 MAB. Any thoughts?


This on most things. Similar to Yigit Crackows Vs. Goliard Clogs, the 2MAB slightly outperforms 1INT.
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