Mathmatical comparison Redingote vs MahatmaFollow

Oki, so here' s the math that i have for comparing the new augmented body armor VS Mahatma Houppelande (current most damaging scholar body piece).

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Scholar tests

With Mahatma Houppelande (INT +11)

w/o uggy, obi, or food
[136(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 47] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 635)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) = 1.38] + .12 (mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.50]

Result: 952.5
-------------------------
/w Uggy, no obi, no food

[133(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 44] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 629)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) =1.38] + .20 (uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.58]


Result: 993.82
--------------------
/w uggy, /w obi,no food

[128(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 39] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 619)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .20 (uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.718]

Result: 1063.44
-------------------------
/w uggy, /w obi, /w food

[135(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 46] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 633)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .20 (uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.718]

Result: 1087.49
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*** added merited Hailstorm:

hailstorm with no uggy, no obi, no food


w/o uggy, obi, or food
[143(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 54] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 649)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) = 1.38] + .12 (mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.5]

Result: 973.5
-------------------------
hailstorm with uggy, obi, food


[142(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 53] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 647)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .20 (uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.718]

Result: 1111.54
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With Redingote( +5 INT, +4 MAB)

w/o uggy, obi, or food
[130(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 41] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 623)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) = 1.38] + .16 (BODY, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.54]

Result: 959.42
---------------------------------
/w Uggy, no obi, no food

[127(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 38] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 617)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) =1.38] + .24 (uggy, Body, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.62]


Result: 999.54
---------------------------
/w uggy, /w obi, no food

[122(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 33] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 607)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .24 (Body, uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.758]

Result: 1067.10
--------------------------
/w uggy, /w obi, /w food

[129(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 40] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 621)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .24 (Body, uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.758]

Result: 1091.71

------------------------
*** added merited Hailstorm:

w/o uggy, obi, or food with hailstorm
[137(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 48] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 637)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) = 1.38] + .16 (BODY, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.55]

Result: 980.98
----------------------
Hailstorm /w uggy, /w obi, /w food

[136(my INT) - 89 (Pudding INT) = 47] x2 + 541(thunder IV base)= 635)
MAB [1.15 (HQ staff) 1.2 (base trait) 1.1 obi =1.518] + .24 (Body, uggy, mufflers, moldy, yigit boots) = 1.758]

Result: 1116.33

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Conclusion: If nothing changes from SE's current discription and allowance of us adding the 2 augmented stats that they currently say is allowed, this new body piece will trump our current most damaging body piece in every way. For all you die hard (NO BUT SCHOLARS COAT IS BETTAR!!!), yes... WHEN you are actually encountering resists.


If any errors are found, please let me know so they can be adjusted asap and made correct. Thanks for your assistance in keeping the numbers right!


Edit1: adjusted figures
Edit2: added Merited Hailstorm benefits
Edit3: Adjust figures, took out Novio MAB +7


Edited, Mar 26th 2009 6:40pm by xXxNaobixXx

Edited, Mar 26th 2009 9:34pm by xXxNaobixXx

Yigit Boots are MAB +2 you have them as +7



Mufflers: MAB +5
Moldy: MAB +5
Yigit Boots: MAB +2
Total: +12

Not +17 or 0.17

Unless you're getting MAB +5 somewhere else.

Edited, Mar 26th 2009 7:13pm by Zagen

Ah yes, I always forget about Morganas, and you are absolutely correct. Over time, I have pretty much thrusted the idea of Morgana's as a viable body piece from my mind, simply due to the inconsistancy. There were too many times during testing where i'd have to take out dmg pieces for skill pieces to fight resists (something i admittedly don't like to do lol). So even though Morgana "can" outdamage mahatama, it doesn't outdamage it in the long scheme of dmg over time, thus i still consider mahatma to be on top.





MAB also effects helices, and in many incstances of my tests, (uggy vs enlightened chain, or obi vs pen rope for example) the MAB did better, so it is actually quite possible that the body will even out do errant in helix dmg. but the dmg formula for helix is still rather..... "unconfirmed" of sort.

But again, this varies on many levels PER PERSON due to their specific gear setup. Either way, I still wouldn't give up Mahatma either, simply for the HMP, which scholar will never have enough of ^,^




BAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

great catch, and thank you >< this is a huge huge difference that needs to be fixed.

EDIT: figured out that the extra 7 MAB was from the Novio that I had in the equation. It has now been removed for simplicity.




Edited, Mar 26th 2009 9:50pm by xXxNaobixXx

Can't we not wear morrigans...

Morrigan's Robe:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Morrigan%27s_Robe

Correct, Scholar cannot wear this.

However, they are not talking about Morrigan's Robe.

They are taling about Morgana's Cotehardie:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Morgana%27s_Cotehardie

Scholar can wear this.

Most welcome =)

No i don't, and yes you are correct in that all helices automatically gain the day/weather bonuses without needing any obi's to proc it. It was merely a comparison of INT/MAB to show that helices are not only affected by INT.





Ya, I agree, and i think that we're both highlighting the same similarities and agreeing on the same things, just in different ways. For me, almost all i do is "midnuke" to high, so therefore, morganas is simply not worth the inv-1, so i don't bother carrying it. I'm quite sure that given my merits and supporting gear, using a morgana's on nonresistant mobs wouldn't be a problem in the least; but again, that doesn't fall too much into my personal "category of gameplay".





I'm not clearly sure of what you're trying to point out here. I agree the HQ staff isn't +15 mab, but a 15% dmg bonus, hence:


this being shown prior to the actualy MAB via gear:


Was there a mistake I made in the damage formulas? or are you reiterating/supporting and just further elaborating something I have already done?

I am, admittedly, not 100% used to using the damage formula regularly, and honestly, im feeling like im missing something because i know I do much more dmg on puddings than what comes out on paper using the formula. Thanks again for your help in making this is accurate as possible.

Just as a check - Puddings take +64/256 magic damage, so normal nuke for 1000 does 1250 - however, the bonus from staff is applied to ALL mab, not just that from traits, which is what I was getting at.

As a sanity check one myself, I cast thunder IV 2x on the same spider just outside whitegate, once with Jupiter's Staff, once with Vulcan's (to maintain +INT from bugard+1, but having no effect on potency)

Tests done on BLM, since I can get more MAB to make the difference more notable.

Using no latent gear to ensure standard across testing.

INT: 79+50 (3 merits)
MAB: 32 (Base) + 26 + 10 (merits)

BLM/WHM

<staff> | Bugard + 1 | - | Phantom
Ree's | Prudence | Moldy | Novio
Morrigan | Morrigan | Tamas | Snow
Gleeman | Sorc. Belt | Mahatma | Yigit

ThunderIV w/ Jupiter: 1333
ThunderIV w/ Vulcan: 1160

1160*1.15 = 1334

However, the staff bonus comes into play fairly early in the equation and gets floored a few times, understandable to drop 1 damage.

Using http://bash.e3b.org/FFXIcmd/index.php backsolver to find spider int, I get ~54 for both values.

If I work forwards from 54 INT, using your formula and my stats, Jupiter's TIV should be, ignoring flooring for now:

Damage = (75*2+541)*(1.15*1.32+0.36)
Damage = 691 * (1.518+0.36) = 691*1.878 = 1297.698

The extra damage comes from 0.36 being multiplied by 1.15, for

Damage = 691 * (1.518 + 0.414) = 1335.012

For Single Target ThunderIV, assuming no MB, YourINT > TargetINT but less than undetermined breakpoint, from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage :

Damage = Floor(Floor(Floor(Floor(Floor(Floor((YourINT-TargetINT)*2+541)*(Resist Multiplier))*(StaffBonus))*(DayWeatherBonus))*((100+YourMAB)/(100+TargetMDB)))*(TargetDamageAdjust))

ResistMultiplier: 1/(2^n) n = 0 for no resist, 1 for half, 2 for 1/4, etc
StaffBonus: 1.10 for matching NQ, 1.15 for HQ
DayWeatherBonus: 1.1 for Day or Single Weather, 1.2 for Day and Single Weather, 1.25 for Double Weather, 1.35 for Day+Double Weather
MAB/MDB: Self explanatory, just to note that +1 MAB != +1% damage after the first point
TargetDamageAdjust: 1+<mob adjust> - ie, +64/256 for puddings, -64/256 for Ahriman

Edit: Sentence Structure Cleanup

Edit2: Forgot Potency Merits >.>, couple more typos

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 3:01pm by Radecx

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 3:18pm by Radecx

You guys would save yourself alot of trouble if you simply used this calculator.

Can easily demonstrate that Redingote beats Errant on TIV's but not on Helixes with this.

Hailstorm from a fully merited-stormsurge grants +7 INT. The spell used is thunder IV, so you'd get the storm benefit of 7 INT, but NOT the obi bonus. The obi bonus displayed is if the corresponding day of the week happened to be thundersday while getting hailstorm for the INT bonus from a scholar.



Thank you for posting that!!! I've never seen that before but am very glad you put it up. I'll definitely make use of it. I did notice, however, that even with that, the numbers still don't add up to the practical numbers that show up in the game ; ; but at least the numbers are closer to the games numbers than my math was lololol So i'm obviously missing something... or a few things.




Ya, I gotta admit, I do too. I was definitely one of the "why?" kids. I always questioned authority and almost never accept something at face value until i've plucked it apart and put it back together.