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Maxing Elemental MACCFollow

#1 Feb 22 2009 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I’ve been building a 320/120 build for my hume sch/rdm and have everything except for a couple items, Temenos AF material, and 3 merits till 5/5 int. Actually, with all that I’ll have 321/120 counting food and weather.

My current skill set up is 317 skill, 5 macc and 119 int counting food and weather (not counting staff however). I haven’t had a chance to try this out on anything other than NW Apollyon KB and Ulli. So only 1-2 dozen nukes, not a big enough sample size but still not a single resist in this skill setup.

I’ve read Kaeko’s post on macc vs skill vs int, also read dozens of the posts on macc vs skill. With all the gear choices that are within my reach, I can hit a build with 326 skill 9 macc and a measely 105 int. Basically the difference is druids over mahatma slops, numerist over goliard feet, balrahn over tamas, omega over snow.

Is this a more accurate set than a 320/120? With the assumption that 1 macc = .9 skill and 2 int = 1 skill (.9 skill?) it works out to be a more accurate set.

I’ve heard as a blm that you want to shoot for over 330 skill for resistive hnm, but I do not know if you try to keep the same 120int or if you can drop your int for skill and macc. Or is the idea of 120 int just to keep reasonable damage.

I apologize for the incoherent rambling. What's your perspective on building the strongest possible elemental magic accuracy set?
#2 Feb 23 2009 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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I'd definitely take mahatma and goliard over druid's/numerist. The testing linked on Kaeko's blog seems to shows that 1 INT = 1M.acc if your INT is less than 10 above your target, and 1 INT = 0.5M.acc past that point, so either way mahatma and goliard would win.
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#3 Feb 23 2009 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Unless you're targeting a specific HNM, I usually follow this rule: For any given piece add up the INT, Skill, and M.Acc. Then pick the piece with the highest number. If two pieces are equal, go with the one with more INT (or with some MAB).

This is only if you're going for a resist build, however. Obviously for general use, you would favor large MAB pieces over resist build pieces.
#4 Feb 23 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Goliard > Numerist
Mahatma > Druid (Unless you're over 120, since most HNM's have 110~ int.
INT+5 Ring > Balrahns (Same Reason as above)
Omega > INT+5 Ring (Slightly)


Generally speaking, INT = Skill = M.Accu up until the mentioned 120ish INT. There are some mobs however; when piling INT never reaches the inflection point due to absurd high INT. Kirin and CoP Wyrms are good examples where piling on INT (Super-INT build) will give impressive results.


But now, for something completely different: I wouldn't focus that much on the 320/120 build. I've come to the conclusion that there is almost no mob that can't be nuked effectively without Klimaform. I can get away with some basic +Elemental (AF2 Hat, Af1 Body, Torque, Goliard Clogs) and klimaform on almost all mobs short of Cerb and pals (Which not even BLM can). This allows me to keep most of the important Damage pieces (Novio/moldy, Elemental Obi, Hands/legs and cape).

In my humble opinion, a Mixed Set + Alacraty + Klimaform will outdo a Full 320/120 set with parsimon/ebu.

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#5 Feb 23 2009 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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Drakonite wrote:
Goliard > Numerist
Mahatma > Druid (Unless you're over 120, since most HNM's have 110~ int.
INT+5 Ring > Balrahns (Same Reason as above)
Omega > INT+5 Ring (Slightly)


Generally speaking, INT = Skill = M.Accu up until the mentioned 120ish INT. There are some mobs however; when piling INT never reaches the inflection point due to absurd high INT. Kirin and CoP Wyrms are good examples where piling on INT (Super-INT build) will give impressive results.


But now, for something completely different: I wouldn't focus that much on the 320/120 build. I've come to the conclusion that there is almost no mob that can't be nuked effectively without Klimaform. I can get away with some basic +Elemental (AF2 Hat, Af1 Body, Torque, Goliard Clogs) and klimaform on almost all mobs short of Cerb and pals (Which not even BLM can). This allows me to keep most of the important Damage pieces (Novio/moldy, Elemental Obi, Hands/legs and cape).

In my humble opinion, a Mixed Set + Alacraty + Klimaform will outdo a Full 320/120 set with parsimon/ebu.



This is not a terribly uncommon mentality, especially with the release of Focalization, which affords Klimaform-type tactics.
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#6 Feb 23 2009 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
In my humble opinion, a Mixed Set + Alacraty + Klimaform will outdo a Full 320/120 set with parsimon/ebu.


So far I've only messed around with Klimaform for nuking in my max damage gear set (272 skill, 124 int, +18 mab if ugly is active). I've been less than impressed with the results. Works fine on regular i.t. mobs but not on anything tougher. However, my greatest fault to how I play sch is that I rarely use Klimaform. I know, shame on me.

I'll have to try out Klima + Mixed set. Perhaps I'll be able to appreciate Klimaform a little more.

Thanks, this was huge help.

Time to focus on my max damage set. I'm only lacking another limbus set of materials, Yigit Feet(@8k assault points), Gleeman's Cape (14,970/15,000 Amp and no einhjer shell, thank you SE for your impecable timing on bannings) and Novio.
#7 Feb 24 2009 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Is there any number(s) on the amount of MACC Klimaform grants?
#8 Feb 24 2009 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Ineptvagrant wrote:
Is there any number(s) on the amount of MACC Klimaform grants?


Nothing concrete is available due to the nature of testing for M.Acc. But it's a good number, good enough to nearly floor your magical resists on most mobs when combined with standard nuking gear.
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#9 Feb 24 2009 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Acturus wrote:
This is not a terribly uncommon mentality, especially with the release of Focalization, which affords Klimaform-type tactics.


Oh no, not at all. Focalization has no place on this type of strategy. The point is to use Alacrity to allow Klimaform being up 2/3 of the time, to nuke as much as needed. Focalization on the other hand would be good for one nuke only.

Focalization + Klimaform is a overkill; unless you want to replicate ES effects for something important (Sleeps/Grav). Nuking is not something I'd use Focalization for.

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#10 Feb 25 2009 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't have 75 mage.. so bear with me.. really I don't know the ebb and flow of nukes on a endgame mob. But I'm lvling sch now, so I'm doing research on it.

I work on the assumption that MP is not generally your limiting metric on performance.

I'm trying to figure out the strategy to use with Klimaform. Its only a 1 min buff, which means you can cast a T4 spell twice at most. Is that all you can survive w/o pulling to much hate in 90 second ? If so, I would think some enmity gear would be better than MAB, so you could cast more often.

Or would you rotate the weather so you could cast another nuke or 2. But then you have the 3min recast on storms to contend with. Which means you'll have to use different elements the 2 casts of klimaform during the 3min recast.
#11 Feb 25 2009 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
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Klimaform is good, but I can't say hand-on-heart that it's going to floor your resist rates on genuinely tough monsters. Been there, tried that. Klimaform is a useful tool for mobs you get average resist rates on, but for mobs who resist you heavily anyway, Klimaform does little to annul that.

At best it'll take a high-resist mob to a moderate-resist mob. At worst you may not even notice the difference. And yes, I've used it as liberally as possible.

A good example is Imps who are phenomenally resistant to nukes. With fully merited Elemental skill + Torque + AF + Klimaform + over 120 INT I was barely denting them with Tier 4's. Elemental Seal seems a far greater bonus than Klimaform, in my humble opinion.
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#12 Feb 25 2009 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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Sir Crystan wrote:
Klimaform is good, but I can't say hand-on-heart that it's going to floor your resist rates on genuinely tough monsters. Been there, tried that. Klimaform is a useful tool for mobs you get average resist rates on, but for mobs who resist you heavily anyway, Klimaform does little to annul that.

At best it'll take a high-resist mob to a moderate-resist mob. At worst you may not even notice the difference. And yes, I've used it as liberally as possible.

A good example is Imps who are phenomenally resistant to nukes. With fully merited Elemental skill + Torque + AF + Klimaform + over 120 INT I was barely denting them with Tier 4's. Elemental Seal seems a far greater bonus than Klimaform, in my humble opinion.


As I've stated before, klimaform appears to me to add a number of +40~50 macc for it's 60 second duration. It has been enough macc to floor resist rates on gods with respective weathers. Your example of Imps seems rather flawed to me. Imps have high INT, so yes they're naturally more resistant to magic, but Imps also take reduced damage from magic attacks. This is probably your problem.

Vagrant.... what do you mean by "3 minute recast on storm spells"? Storm recasts are 15 seconds. If you so desire, you can very well spend the MP to cast a different storm for up to 6 nukes under klimaform without alacrity. With alacrity, you can get off more nukes easily.

Keep in mind, however, that many mobs that would entice the use of klimaform are obscenely resistant to a majority of elements. Generally only 1-2 elements are even slightly effective against them. Genbu: Ice and Thunder are both effective. Blizzard and Thunder 4 are both fine choices and under klimaform will most likely have capped acc in a full macc build.

I personally switch to max damage while under klimaform when fighting gods. I have a minimal resist rate even doing this *which isn't TOO much difference as most of my INT translates directly to macc.
#13 Feb 26 2009 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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My own experiences with Klimaform haven't been quite as positive. While I'm still a couple merits short of 320 Ele in my skill build, jumping to my more MATK heavy set up still sees frequent resists on anything above your usual EXP mob. 40-50 MACC just seems way too insane for SE's standard of minimalism.

Perhaps something I'm curious over, however, is if Dark skill somehow improves its potency. Not exactly something easy to test, but it'd suggest some growth in the spell as we level since even the suggested 40-50 in the mid-40s would be HUGE.
#14 Feb 27 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm.. it being based on Dark skill would made sense. I do remember it being significantly weaker when I got it at level 46; while being stupidly strong now at 75.
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