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#1 Feb 17 2009 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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Hello Scholar community! I come to you as a level 40 SCH still trying to learn the finer points of her new lovejob. I've read the top guide to SCH here already, and I rely on it somewhat religiously for spells, abilities, etc. Problem is, the gear section trails off 50+, and I'm fast approaching. Unfortunately since I don't have the ability to magically pull gil out of my.... purse.. I need to plan ahead.

With that in mind, my primary concern is Vermy. Is this piece, for a Scholar, necessary? Would you say it is definitely needed or just a bonus? I'm not one who believes in half-assing it to 75 and then gearing up, I want to gear myself as well as I can for the ride. Also, please feel free to suggest any other high ticket items that I will need to save up for. Thanks in advance!

One other question, not related to gear. At what level should I start using Sublimation over Refresh if there is a RDM in the party? Thanks again!

Serena
#2 Feb 17 2009 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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From the perspective of a RDM, with regards to your second question:

While refresh is "better" than sub since it can be on full-time and doesn't drain HP, I've found in ToAU camps that MP is hardly ever really an issue at all. RDM is a pretty busy job, so it might be nice to let the RDM just do their other business and keep your sublimation going so they have one less thing to worry about. Of course, a lot of RDMs are also pretty...bad...so it also might be in your interest to full-time sublimation simply because you are in control of it, rather than having to ask a lazy rdm for refresh all the time.

By the same reasoning, I would guess that Vermy is only really useful if you are a) staticing with a RDM that keeps you refreshed, or b) really, really hard up on MP. Since sub recast is 30 seconds after you use it, you're only looking at 10 more mp per cycle of sublimation charge+use+ready to charge again. If you're hard up on money, it's probably not worth the pricetag, and I doubt anyone would accuse you of half-assing for not having one.
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#3 Feb 17 2009 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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You can easily get away with it. Most people don't know anything about scholar and they see all the idiots playing dress up running around in full AF all the time anyway so you'd be no different.

Bring on the rate down but I'm sick of seeing other schs full timing AF 100% and they need to be called out.

I used vermy all the time from 59-72 and it amazed people when I told them I didn't need refresh or ballads. Shoot, it still amazes the bards in merits when I tell them not to bother. With constant auto-refresh + sanction + arts + sublimation you'll never hurt for mp. Take away one of those auto-refreshes and I'm not so sure.
#4 Feb 17 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having a Refresh piece isn't a bad idea for the times your sublimation is prepped but you don't need to use it. Just spending MP so you CAN use it isn't always the best of ideas, either.
#5 Feb 17 2009 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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So I'm a little confused. From the responses I got, and I could be completely off track, but it looks like vermy would only be used while sub is fully charged.. does that mean I can't wear it while charging Sublimation? Sorry if that makes me look silly, just trying to fully understand.
Thanks for all the already posted responses, I appreciate the help!

Serena
#6 Feb 17 2009 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you're concerned about money, go ahead an skip the Vermy. While something nice to have, the price tag is not worth the extremly marginal improvements it will offer. It will not make or break you: and it should be of the last things you should upgrade. Get HQ staves first, if anything.

As for Refresh. That kind of depends. If you're /WHM, then starting 56 (Stoneskin) is a good time to start fulltiming Sublimation to save your RDM some MP.
But you can wait until 60 when it is almost refresh-strong.

68+ (/RDM), you should always use sublimation.

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#7 Feb 17 2009 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Oh good to know! I hadn't even considered working toward HQ staves yet. I have a full set of normal quality from my summoner, but I suppose it would be beneficial to upgrade to HQ. On that note, if i'm looking to primarily be a support scholar moreso than a damage scholar, in what order would you suggest upgrading them?

Serena
#8 Feb 17 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Enhancing and Enfeebling sets, hMP, and -enmity spring to mind.
#9 Feb 18 2009 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
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You'll end up with more mp over time using a refresh cloak along with sublimation, although it won't feel like it because you will be getting 20 mp per minute in the form of 1 mp/tic back, and your sublimation will take 33% longer to charge, but you'll get the same amount back. granted though the difference is really miniscule (talking an estimated 10 extra mp per minute, at best), and many scholars, like myself, didn't bother with it.

Personally I'd say, if you got one, try out it, if you like it more, then use it.


-oh as an add in, you'll need /whm pre 68 to be able to use it effectively, or else youll have to keep ending sublimation to rest, which drops its efficiency down

Edited, Feb 18th 2009 4:34am by lovexhate

puppetmasterserena wrote:
Oh good to know! I hadn't even considered working toward HQ staves yet. I have a full set of normal quality from my summoner, but I suppose it would be beneficial to upgrade to HQ. On that note, if i'm looking to primarily be a support scholar moreso than a damage scholar, in what order would you suggest upgrading them?

Serena


If you're going to be a support based scholar, then HQ staves are not nessessary.
HQ light does not boost cure potency over NQ light.
HQ dark does not give more hMP over NQ dark.

but the moment you start doing debuffs/nukes, thats when you will find HQ staves nessessary. And if you do decide to upgrade them for nuking/solo SCH the priority should go like this:

Ice (cheapest stave and boosts both bind and blizzard), Wind/Thunder(same price, wind increases accuracy of gravity, which in a solo situation, outweighs the accuracy/damage boost that thunder staff gets, but if you aren't soloing often, then thunder gets priority over this), Dark (enhance potency of all dark based spells, more accurate sleeps main benefit to this), Earth(more accurate slows), Fire (pure boost to nothing but fire based elemental spells, like thunder), Water(no real benefit here, just another +1 MND to macro in for stoneskin), Light(just to say you have 8/8 HQ staves, and in case you ever want to lvl BST xD).
So to recap IMO priority goes Ice > Wind > Thunder > Dark > Earth, Fire, Water >Light

I myself upgraded in this order Light(from BST), Ice, thunder, Dark, Wind. The rest I haven't found nessessary but will be upgrading to an HQ earth next.

Edited, Feb 18th 2009 4:46am by lovexhate
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#10 Feb 18 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Pluto's Staff will boost Drain/Aspir. And Noctohelix as well.

On that note; the whole "Useless Staves" doesn't apply too much Scholar. Neptune is good for hydrohelix (Alzadaal anyone?), Apollo's good for Luminohelix (Tenemos, Nyzul, and weak-to-light mobs); and so on. We got strong nukes for all Elements; Light being a rare nuke to have.

Also; you should start gearing up for Damage. Support scholar can work almost regardless of your gear. The only pieces that might make a difference are Enhancing stuff (Torque and Earing); and MP/-ENM gear. You don't want to be one of those scholars that fulltime MP rings, it'll make you look very gimp.



Edited, Feb 18th 2009 11:51am by Drakonite
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#11 Feb 18 2009 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
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The reason why the gear section trails off after a while is because there isn't that much post 60 for SCH to wear until relic. SCH is lacking in a lot of endgame gear sets (Morrigans and Zenith are the two that come to mind) so you're pretty much stuck with Goliard, Errant, Scholar's, and Argute sets for endgame gear.

Neck pieces you're pretty much limited to the skill +7 chains and Enhancing Torque, and I would get at the minimum Elemental and Enhancing, plus Enfeebling if you have the gil. Earrings you're pretty SOL on due to the lack of acc/mind pieces, so I just use Abyssal + Moldy/Insomnia for my ear pieces. Cape get a Rainbow/Prism and that should hold you over for the most part. Belt you're looking at Penitent's Rope until you can snag Argute Belt.

And thats about it, the one major downside of our job is that gear selection is painfully low, although it does make gearing the job much easier.
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#12 Feb 18 2009 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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lovexhate wrote:
You'll end up with more mp over time using a refresh cloak along with sublimation, although it won't feel like it because you will be getting 20 mp per minute in the form of 1 mp/tic back, and your sublimation will take 33% longer to charge, but you'll get the same amount back. granted though the difference is really miniscule (talking an estimated 10 extra mp per minute, at best), and many scholars, like myself, didn't bother with it.


Bolded: You're actually considering a situation in which sublimation only charges for 30 seconds to be any means of judging performance of a piece of gear?

OP: Drakonite gave a fairly complete answer to your original question.

In response to HQ staves, each has its own use, but I would recommend Aquilo's > Jupiter's > Pluto's > Apollo's > W/e the wind one is called > Rest

though you may say "I'm primarily a support SCH" there will be instances where you will be nuking. For support, a light staff and a water staff are sufficient for all your support needs. Pluto's staff offers quite a bit in support for sleep/dispel acc *though dispel rarely misses*. Aquilo's, Jupiter's and Pluto's are the 3 most important though.

All of these questions were answered in previous threads btw. It's a good idea to read through the forums for similar posts. There's even a post titled something like "Vermy vs Scholar's Mortarboard".
#13 Feb 18 2009 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Banggugyangu wrote:


Bolded: You're actually considering a situation in which sublimation only charges for 30 seconds to be any means of judging performance of a piece of gear?



Wait what? I was referring to say.. hitting sublimation with af hat, letting it charge for..2 minutes, then hitting it off. compared to hitting sublimation with vermy, charging it for 2 minutes, then hitting it off. Both ways you will get the same amount of mp returned, except during the 30 second cooldown on sublimation you will be getting an additional 10 mp in 30 seconds from the vermy. Note how i said the difference is miniscule. Also, the less punctual you are with using sublimation, the more dramatic the difference between a refresh cloak and sublimation become.

Edited, Feb 18th 2009 12:49pm by lovexhate
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#14 Feb 19 2009 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
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id say its just a bonus.. mostly an inventory +1 peice honestly.. with its only stat being +refresh your going to be macro'ing it out for any spell you cast just about, specially dark arts based since the af body is +15 to all skills associated with dark arts. it becomes even more questionable if you ever get the relic body which brings your sublimination from +1 to +2 if your using af hat and relic body

Between that and the light arts enhancement on the legs + sublimination bonus on the hat are why im sure most use the af full time just about..

if your only getting the neptunes staff for the +1 mind on stoneskin, get kirins pole, its cheaper and its +10 mind/int
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#15 Feb 19 2009 at 9:38 PM Rating: Decent
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lovexhate wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:


Bolded: You're actually considering a situation in which sublimation only charges for 30 seconds to be any means of judging performance of a piece of gear?



Wait what? I was referring to say.. hitting sublimation with af hat, letting it charge for..2 minutes, then hitting it off. compared to hitting sublimation with vermy, charging it for 2 minutes, then hitting it off. Both ways you will get the same amount of mp returned, except during the 30 second cooldown on sublimation you will be getting an additional 10 mp in 30 seconds from the vermy. Note how i said the difference is miniscule. Also, the less punctual you are with using sublimation, the more dramatic the difference between a refresh cloak and sublimation become.


Perhaps you are slipping with how sublimation works....

Quote:
Both ways you will get the same amount of mp returned, except during the 30 second cooldown on sublimation you will be getting an additional 10 mp in 30 seconds from the vermy.


Quote:
talking an estimated 10 extra mp per minute, at best


How many seconds do you count in 1 minute?

we're arguing the same way.... I'm just upset that you had to emphasize our point by exaggerating the benefit of vermy in a very deceitful way. If vermy offered 10 MP/minute more than AF hat... that's a MASSIVE difference... As it stands for me, my sublimation is 281 MP. that takes 278 seconds to charge. 278 seconds is 4 minutes 38 seconds. During the NEXT 30 seconds, I would receive up to 10 MP from vermy cloak over the AF hat. This means I would receive an extra 10 MP for every 5 minutes 8 seconds. That is only 2.16 MP per minute bonus. This is a FAR CRY from 10 MP per minute.
#16 Feb 19 2009 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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wildsienna wrote:
id say its just a bonus.. mostly an inventory +1 peice honestly.. with its only stat being +refresh your going to be macro'ing it out for any spell you cast just about, specially dark arts based since the af body is +15 to all skills associated with dark arts. it becomes even more questionable if you ever get the relic body which brings your sublimination from +1 to +2 if your using af hat and relic body


If you're 75 and using AF Body full-time, shame on you. It's only situation of seeing a lot of screen time is for Gods.

If you have relic body, it's not "questionable" relic body + AF Hat is more MP/minute than vermy + sublimation. If you have a RDM refreshing you and you use vermy, then you'll get back more MP/minute over AF hat and Relic body..... but at the cost of the RDM's MP.
#17 Feb 19 2009 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Banggugyangu wrote:
lovexhate wrote:
Banggugyangu wrote:


Bolded: You're actually considering a situation in which sublimation only charges for 30 seconds to be any means of judging performance of a piece of gear?



Wait what? I was referring to say.. hitting sublimation with af hat, letting it charge for..2 minutes, then hitting it off. compared to hitting sublimation with vermy, charging it for 2 minutes, then hitting it off. Both ways you will get the same amount of mp returned, except during the 30 second cooldown on sublimation you will be getting an additional 10 mp in 30 seconds from the vermy. Note how i said the difference is miniscule. Also, the less punctual you are with using sublimation, the more dramatic the difference between a refresh cloak and sublimation become.


Perhaps you are slipping with how sublimation works....

Quote:
Both ways you will get the same amount of mp returned, except during the 30 second cooldown on sublimation you will be getting an additional 10 mp in 30 seconds from the vermy.


Quote:
talking an estimated 10 extra mp per minute, at best


How many seconds do you count in 1 minute?

we're arguing the same way.... I'm just upset that you had to emphasize our point by exaggerating the benefit of vermy in a very deceitful way. If vermy offered 10 MP/minute more than AF hat... that's a MASSIVE difference... As it stands for me, my sublimation is 281 MP. that takes 278 seconds to charge. 278 seconds is 4 minutes 38 seconds. During the NEXT 30 seconds, I would receive up to 10 MP from vermy cloak over the AF hat. This means I would receive an extra 10 MP for every 5 minutes 8 seconds. That is only 2.16 MP per minute bonus. This is a FAR CRY from 10 MP per minute.


10 mp per sublimation cooldown, aka 30 seconds. You got what I meant didn't you? mistake on my part.
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