Artifact 1+1.Follow

Hello, I'm about to ding 74 and I have both artifact upgrade items. I was wondering which would be the best?

I'm thinking the Scholar's Gown +1 would be the most improvement; 2 more INT/MND, and 5hMP. The mortarboard is only 1 more INT upgraded.

Any imput on any of the other Artifact+1's?

Double post

Edited, Jan 10th 2009 1:21pm by Crystan

For me, I'll take the Mortarboard +1 first.

I nuke in Max damage for almost 95% of the stuff I do, and the Mortarboard is the one piece I use the most out of everything in my inventory.

Scholar's Gown +1 is a close second. Perfect for a Elemental build, and everything else the Gown is good for.
hMP+5 isn't too important, since a good SCH should already be carrying Errant. Neverthless it is still slightly better to rest in unless you have Mahatma.

I definitely do NOT recommend getting the loafers first; you shouldn't be nuking in them. I don't believe anyone who has access to Loafers +1 but doesn't have Goliard/Cobra/Yigit.
The NQ is fine for what it should be used for (Buffs/Cures) until you get your other AF+1 done.
They are a definitive third place for upgrading on my Grimoire (hehe).

The pants +1 are good for upping our Light based enfeebles: Paralyze and Slow (And Silence to a degree). Not much else to look for in this.

Hands +1 are... our best healing hands? That's not saying much really; since our selection for hands to use during Light arts is pretty abysmal.
Other than using the rare Concealing cuffs for -ENM, there's not much else to use.
I'd probably just stick to Argute hands for Light arts if I get them, to save space (The difference between Scholar's +1 and Argute Hands is marginal).

All in all, my order would be:
Mortarboard +1
Gown +1
Loafers +1
Pants/Hands +1

One thing to keep in mind about SCH AF+1 is that, unlike most other jobs, the SCH AF+1 is more or less a pure stat upgrade. You won't see sudden increases or anything like that, but it really all depends on what stats you want to increase on. If you want INT, start with the pieces that give +INT, while if you want MND, start with the pieces that give +MND.

The body is nice because it has +5 hMP, but that's the only real special thing.

Dredging up stuff that's been answered I know, however I don't think it's been answered thoroughly enough. Bang presented a very black and white picture of things and frankly sh*t is situational. There is not one set of gear for any job that can be presented as the penultimate, even individual pieces are subject to being questioned depending on the situation.

That being said, rather than insulting a person's lack of experience with a job, I'll present information in a more objective manner. While it's self-evident that the Scholar's Mortarboard +1 and the Scholar's Gown +1 are the most desirable pieces of the set, which piece is absolutely the most desirable is dependent on what you do most commonly.

Unless you manaburn all of your xp, your ideal body/head combination for main healing a party is going to be AF+1 head and relic body. In this scenario the Mortarboard +1 offers little benefit except for a meager -1 enmity however, the AF+1 body offers no benefit at all unless you are forced to rest frequently, in which case an Errant Houppelande gives the same hMP. Mortarboard +1 wins by an insignificant margin.

If you DO manaburn all your xp and have enough Elemental Skill merits/gear then an INT build will benefit you the most by increasing damage and to a certain extent Magic Accuracy. Mortarboard +1 will win with that setup, however if you build for INT or MAB in all slots then you will almost definitely need the additional skill from Gown +1 to get closer to capping MACC, the fact that a Gown +1 offers a little extra INT is just gravy.

Since xp/merits are a pretty limited part of the game regardless of the job being focused on, let's shift the lens to more advanced portions of the game.

Still maintaining the reality that sch is not as potent or accurate a nuker as blm, I'll present two different styles of gearing, a skill set and an INT set.

Until the advent of relic scholar wasn't capable of reaching the mystical plateau of 320/120 Skill/INT for nuking high level monsters, and unfortunately as it's been pointed out these are the BARE MINIMUM requirements to meet and even with them you'll be nigh on useless for AU HNM's.

Taking these facts into account I'll focus quickly on a skill set and its benefits. Lowering resistance rates will offer higher average damage over time regardless of if you are a blm or sch nuking by lowering resist rates, your spike damage WILL be lower than someone with a super int build but they will be resisted far more frequently.
This can be made analogous to a melee who focuses on accuracy so that they don't miss but will not hit as hard as another melee with a focus on str, unfortunately that analogy gets murky when haste and food gets thrown in so take it with a grain of salt, please. With a skill setup the Gown +1 is the obvious winner.

A build that is focused solely (or nearly so) on INT offers a different set of benefits. While it is true that INT will offer some MACC thus negating some of what a skill set offers its primary focus is to increase max damage on un-resisted nukes. Make no mistake, you will be resisted more often so don't be disappointed when those Thunder IV's hit for 400 or so damage. When nuking things with low INT totals a super INT build is definitely superior. In this situation the Mortarboard +1 is clearly the best piece of gear that you can obtain for the head slot.

There is one exception to all of this blahblah that I'm putting out and that is helices. The likelihood of sticking an un-resisted helix on anything that is really tough is low enough that you want to make it count if it does stick. There is definitely an argument to be made for increasing skill, but the formula for helices works against us in general.

For a more thorough explanation from someone with far more knowledge than I have please refer to Kaeko's posts. (He will be missed.)

tl;dr: Situational gear is situational, no one can tell you definitively what is best.

This is proof that my statement *which was not intended to insult in any way* is true *edit* as you never stated for which you would be using said piece of gear. If you're speaking about EXP, limbus, etc... lvl 72+ has minimal resist rates on these types of things without elemental skill merits and in full damage gear. If you have to ask, you haven't experienced enough scholar75 things. Like I said... take a few weeks. Learn what you do the most... then your decision should be obvious to you. I'm not going to say which would be best for you, because I don't know what your playstyle is like. For me personally, morterboard+1 is an obvious choice, as I sit in max damage ~90% of the time.

Busa, no offense, but your retort toward me somewhat disgusts me. That is a fine example of the "baby-sitting" society that we have succumbed to. Everyone is too afraid of offending someone that they in-turn take that person's side and offend the one that said something that might have been taken offensively. I wasn't being derogatory toward anyone when I said that. It's simply a statement saying "learn what you do most, then decide based on that." If you are going to take a driver's license exam and you ask the DMV employee "Should I use my turn signal when I pull up to this light?" He will probably look at you weird, tell you "I think you need more experience if you're going to ask that question." and ask you to try again later. He's not being malicious by doing so... he's making an observation and suggesting what he feels to be the proper course of action.

Edited, Jan 24th 2009 12:26am by Banggugyangu

Edited, Jan 24th 2009 12:28am by Banggugyangu

What about "figure out what you use the most then decide what is best for you" is black and white? It should be an obvious decision, but it's a decision that is not necessarily going to be the same for one as another... those are the basics of a "gray area". Black and white would be me telling him which to choose.

Text doesn't communicate intent very well apparently. I've re-read your first post a few times since you responded to mine and while yes, you did say that the choice should be made depending on what you use most, it was structured in a way indicative of a belief that the Mortarboard is the obvious choice because what people *should* be using is what you use.

I believe that I just felt like there was derision directed at anyone who didn't stand around in a set comprised entirely of INT gear because that's what *you* wear and I've chosen a different setup. I offer my sincerest apologies for it appears that I just misconstrued or read too deeply into what you wrote.

Edit: Crystan, I was hitting full duration Cryohelix's on King Behemoth the other day in my INT setup, damage was in the 120-140's with Ebullience, un-bursted, most recent big thing I've tried them on and I was surprised at the efficacy.

Edited, Jan 24th 2009 4:30am by busakiller

Since the introduction of stormsurge I stick to hailstorm almost exclusively, the additional INT from weather along with the stats on Aquilo's means that I'm looking at +12 INT and +10 skill just for not choosing to cast Thunder Spells, the damage is easily comparable, my resist rates appear to be lower and of course mp costs are naturally lower on Blizzard spells anyway, so it works out for me. The only time it sucks is on Fire based mobs like Tiamat, just wanted to toss that out real quick in case you were curious why I stick to Ice magic almost exclusively.

Main: Aquilo's staff
Sub: Bugard Strap +1 (I've considered buying an Ice Grip but testing indicates the Bugard is still superior, though I think that testing has only been performed on blm.)
Ammo: Phantom tathlum
Head: Scholar's Mortarboard
Neck: Elemental Torque
Ear1: Elemental Earring
Ear2: Moldavite Earring (For big stuff a phantom earring+1 would be better but frankly, I have better things to spend that gil on right now.)
Body: Scholar's Gown +1
Hands: Vicious Muffler's (I always seem to miss Genie gages when they are up on AH D:)
Ring1: Balrahn's Ring
Ring2: Tamas Ring (Omega ring isn't too far off but I'm kind of annoyed that it will replace Tamas considering how much blood went into getting the damn thing.)
Back: Rainbow Cape (giiiiiiiiiimp but w/e, Gleeman's Cape isn't too far off. I'll never see a Merciful, oh well.)
Waist: Penitent's (I usually use Hyorin, forgot it that day...will probably never see Argute.)
Legs: Mahatma
Feet: Yigit

My gear is less than ideal. I do what I can with it though and continue to strive to improve it. ^-^b

Hat > Body > Pants

Hands suck and aren't worth the inventory. If you use feet for anything other than the marginal fast cast, you're doing it wrong. Pants is a very minor upgrade and you shouldn't lot the upgrade items over another SCH that doesn't have the first two.

On an annoying note, I have AF2+1 before I get my Temenos AF1+1 piece..

Edited, Jan 26th 2009 1:04pm by Ellatrix

That's your build for helix's?

It really isn't just a "stat upgrade" when you think about it.

AF+1 hat is the only increase you can receive to a max damage build for head piece over the AF hat. This makes the AF+1 into a staple piece for a max damage build.

AF+1 body is a significant upgrade for resist builds in 2 ways:
If your INT is lower than the target's INT, you're essentially gaining 2 macc extra.
Regardless, you're still gaining an increase in spell damage.

AF+1 boots are officially more effective than rostrum pumps with the same damage increase now.

Pants are a little less important, but still useful. The MND+3 and VIT+3 are indeed IMO simply "stat increases" as the benefit you'll see from them is minor.

Gloves, IMO are pretty worthless to upgrade however. I suppose keeping +5 MND while having the 20% spell interruption rate reduction is nice, but not necessary by any means.

Quick question: What's the difference between the AF and the AF+1. More stats. That's it. Whereas most other jobs get other increases or additional stats, SCH AF+1 is just an upgrade in stats from the AF. Stop pretending otherwise.



Not saying that's a bad thing, but I look at SCH as a versatile mage rather than just a nuking mage. Meaning that nuking is only one thing that I do as a SCH, but I also heal, enfeeble, and enhance. I look at all things that can improve performance for all four things.



MND is good for putting higher numbers in healing, maxing out Stoneskin, and helping land white magic enfeebles, such as slow, paralyze, and silence. There is no piece of AF+1 that's worthless in my own opinion.

"AF+1 head is only a stat upgrade" = black & white.

"AF+1 head is the best option for nuking" = gray.

"AF+1 body is only a stat upgrade" = black & white.

"AF+1 body offers SCH the best macc of any body piece." = gray.


basically... you're looking at it wrong. You're seeing 1 more INT. I'm seeing best option available. If you look at THF AF+1 gloves, you would probably see some special bonus. I in turn see just a stat upgrade. But that simple stat upgrade turns that piece into the best option available for the situation.

I have whm so it's super rare that I'm in a situation where I'm healing on sch, clearly this is a sch discussion so I'll try to be objective about the application of the feet. The few times that I've merited in TP burns, I find that unless we get multiple links I'm sitting around waiting for my enspell, weather or phalanx to drop while putzing around chatting or something.

It's pretty much unarguable that a sch can keep as busy as they want to, flipping arts, casting nukes etc. but there's a point of diminishing returns on your effort, so w/e. That being said, I'm not challenged on time keeping buffs up and doing other things to support the melee so the reduction in cast time is pretty irrelevant.

For longer fights like Ultima or things of that nature I'm again not stressed for time and more concerned with enmity management, Avocat Pigaches offer me a benefit in a better -enmity footgear (admittedly it's pretty insignificant) along with the added functionality of increasing enfeeb acc (skill is acc right? I can never keep that rdm stuff straight @_@).

I'm not sure if my experiences differ dramatically due to my use of sch or what the case may be but the loafers are just unnecessary and cramp an already jammed inventory. I do see a certain utility to them but I would easily rank them close to the bottom of the upgrade list, still better than hands though.

Quick aside, I think I get what you're saying Bang, like I said in an earlier post, I likely just misinterpreted your intent, read things the way that I wanted to read them. :x

I was being metaphorical for that. My problem wasn't your outlook at the AF+1, but rather the wording you were using to describe it.


suggests a negative tone. It comes off as though you feel that the AF+1 is nothing special because all it offers is better stats than the AF. This can, and will, deceive some people who don't properly understand what you mean. If you expect that everyone will understand what you mean, then you obviously are overestimating the intelligence of the common reader. In this current discussion, there was no need to bring up that all AF+1 offers over it's AF counterpart is merely improved stats. This was a discussion about which piece is better. The correct answer is: "The better piece is dependent on what role you fill the most." What's offered or not offered on each piece has nothing to do with that answer.

*edited for a botched quote tag*[/i]

Edited, Jan 30th 2009 12:47pm by Banggugyangu