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Why is SCH hated?Follow

#1 Jul 10 2008 at 7:47 AM Rating: Default
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I just find it funny how some people say SCH needs to have certain things while other people call us overpowered. I actually had a run in with people and them being extremely ****** I had SCH leveled and used it. Saying it was to overpowered.

No one seems to notice all the penalties we have for use what is special and that what we can do is limited to subjobs. Not to mention all the gear that we can't use and the spells we don't have access to use. Even funnier that with our abilities it gives less work endgame for certain jobs and also improve what other jobs can do with use of weather spells.

Yet some people keep treating us badly for being SCH. People need to really go play the job before they can give their opinions of it and if you think SCH is that good, then go level it?

Sorry for rant, just a bit annoyed.
#2 Jul 10 2008 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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People fear/hate what they don't understand or don't know about. It's human nature it seems. Not only that, but every body has their opinions, which are almost always different. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with my opinion that Camaro's are the greatest car ever made ^.^

Take it for what its worth, but don't let it eat you up. In the end, their opinions won't make a difference in the job, how you play it, and how long it lasts.... hopefully anyways.
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#3 Jul 10 2008 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
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Meh with SCH, you gotta "spread the word". Also in parties you have to be on your best, to impress the ignorant so more can respect SCH for what it is. And WHMs need to quit worrying about being replaced by SCH.

The ultimate limitation we have is charge use.
#4 Jul 10 2008 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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My tarutaru SCH is only 27 atm (loving the job so far) but....last night in a jungle party I was originally asked to help nuke b/c we had a PLD tank who barely required any healing, so I switched to SCH/BLM and outparsed our BLM/RDM in damage while still keeping regen on our PLD.

Later in the evening, party composition changed, had WAR and a SAM dual-tanking (or trying to), and I was asked to back-up heal, so I switched to SCH/WHM and ran circles around our WHM/BLM "main healer" (regen cycle, cures, buffs, bar-ra's and still paralyze/dia the mob) he was sitting around at full-MP most of the time not really doing much.

I could see how they would be ******* but I haven't run into the overt negativity you seem to be dealing with at higher levels. Now if only SE could introduce another tank job so it wouldn't be so **** hard to put together a decent lowbie pt...
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#5 Jul 10 2008 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Why is SCH hated?

wut? I <3 SCH for small-man events at endgame. SE got that job right IMO. So many advantages.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 2:20pm by DubiousNinja
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#6 Jul 10 2008 at 12:47 PM Rating: Default
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i just think the hate is cause sch is the first hybrid to not be gimped by havin both sets of abilties it can nuke and heal will need gear swaps but isnt crippled skill wise ie rdm given low melee and magic skills to "compensate" for havin cures nukes and some melee skill i lved sch to 37 kept mind and int gear on me and i went from dd to hlr just to keep the party goin its true versatility

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 4:48pm by bluguy
#7 Jul 10 2008 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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bluguy wrote:
i just think the hate is cause sch is the first hybrid to not be gimped by havin both sets of abilties it can nuke and heal will need gear swaps but isnt crippled skill wise ie rdm given low melee and magic skills to "compensate" for havin cures nukes and some melee skill i lved sch to 37 kept mind and int gear on me and i went from dd to hlr just to keep the party goin its true versatility


RDM is either healer or support, SCH is either healer or direct DD. Sch can support, but only to augment their healing ability (by subbing rdm). They're designed with completely different purposes in mind.
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#8 Jul 10 2008 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
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The only thing I have against SCH is they got the one upgrade RDM has gotten in the last 4 years on a silver platter. To match what a SCH gets for free, a RDM has to spend 220k exp. I do take some offense to that. Don't bring up Diabolos, because that is a much weaker phalanx.

I couldn't care less about Blinkra, Stoneskinra or Enspellra. Phalanxra grinds my gears.


Zaleshea wrote:
Meh with SCH, you gotta "spread the word". Also in parties you have to be on your best, to impress the ignorant so more can respect SCH for what it is. And WHMs need to quit worrying about being replaced by SCH.

The ultimate limitation we have is charge use.


I think WHMs are upset that, if you wanted to, you could AOE status removal every minute. WHMs have to wait 10 to do it once.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 5:34pm by Ranzera
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#9 Jul 10 2008 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
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For the same reason that people first hated word processors and PC's. They wanted to keep their 'Typewriters'. They complained about that, tradition, workmanship, people losing jobs; and today the complainers are here using their be-hated PC's, hating on something new. Smart people adapetd and had markeatble skills earlier than the complainers.

There has to be some progress and some people will always balk at it. The game has evolved a bit. I went started as BLM w WHM sub and switched to SCH. Mage jobs area lot more fun and more demanding than melee, but I got really tired of being squishy, putting in solo hours when needed just to lvl BLM. The trade off for the weakness should have been Nuke power, but many Mele DD'd outdamaged me all the wya up to lvl 36 WITHOUT having to nrest MP in between. I can solo things w my drg back to back that my BLM can't, even though my blm is 10 levels higher and has to rest each mob. I can self- XP chain w my DRG, unthinkable with a mage.

Now obviously the elemenatl de-buffs, and the ability to backup heal go along way. A WHM main healer is still great especially with raise and tele's. But the melee class is still more over-powered.

The problem is not that SCH is too good, imo; the problem is that melee just does to much compared to the mage class. Now dancer and Bard are chipping away at the mage class as well. A long story short the mages needed to evolve a bit and SCH is a step in that direction, but still not at the level as some melee. Mybe SE needs to upgrade the 'typewriters' themselves and build them into PC's.

Hate the game, not the player.
#10 Jul 10 2008 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Only time i hate SCH is in 60 cap official Ballista matches.
Paralyzega... Silencega... Graviga... Blindga... it's ******* annoying.

Outside of Ballista... i like them, it's a solid job.
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#11Sayuriko, Posted: Jul 10 2008 at 3:03 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) To my knowledge...SCH can't -ga light side enfeebs. <.<;
#12 Jul 10 2008 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Sayuriko wrote:
so what if we can -ga the -na spells...less worry for the whm to deal with.. @.@


That's the thing, whm is supposed to be the master healer, and they're getting overshadowed.

In other news, the only reason I choose my healers in exp WHM/SCH -> RDM -> WHM/BLMorSMN -> SCH is because main job sch doesn't have haste, and as nice as those enspells are, I feel SCH is better suited to work together with a WHM or RDM, as opposed to by themselves.

For endgame-ish stuff, nothing beats a SCH for support in a prolonged fight.

In the past few weeks I finally got First Lieutenant rank and I did 4/5 of the fights with a SCH, and the AoE buffs just made it a cakewalk. I would expect similar results from a SCH in salvage, or at any hnm in a tank party.
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#13 Jul 10 2008 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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starby wrote:
Sayuriko wrote:
so what if we can -ga the -na spells...less worry for the whm to deal with.. @.@


That's the thing, whm is supposed to be the master healer, and they're getting overshadowed.


Yes indeed, I only have whm leveled as a SJ and I completely agree with this. The only thing whm has going for it is Cure V. That's simply not enough. It need far more aggressive healer type abilities and spells.
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#14 Jul 10 2008 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Strai wrote:
Yes indeed, I only have whm leveled as a SJ and I completely agree with this. The only thing whm has going for it is Cure V. That's simply not enough. It need far more aggressive healer type abilities and spells.


Cure V is an amazing thing, and now that whm has /sch it helped a lot. Next change to whm needs to be making divine veil a permanent effect, with the hate of a single target -na spell.
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#15 Jul 11 2008 at 2:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Ranzera wrote:
The only thing I have against SCH is they got the one upgrade RDM has gotten in the last 4 years on a silver platter. To match what a SCH gets for free, a RDM has to spend 220k exp. I do take some offense to that. Don't bring up Diabolos, because that is a much weaker phalanx.

I couldn't care less about Blinkra, Stoneskinra or Enspellra. Phalanxra grinds my gears.


Zaleshea wrote:
Meh with SCH, you gotta "spread the word". Also in parties you have to be on your best, to impress the ignorant so more can respect SCH for what it is. And WHMs need to quit worrying about being replaced by SCH.

The ultimate limitation we have is charge use.


I think WHMs are upset that, if you wanted to, you could AOE status removal every minute. WHMs have to wait 10 to do it once.

Edited, Jul 10th 2008 5:34pm by Ranzera

That is a good point, however, every accession, no matter what it is, will give us hate. I will agree that SE went a bit far by giving us access to Stona. Besides Cure V, it was the only white magic usable by WHM.
#16 Jul 11 2008 at 2:51 AM Rating: Decent
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bottom line...SCH is nice, i'm 75 on it. It's a versatile job, it could be a stand in for either blm or whm, but it can't replace them...NOTHING beats cure V and regen III. also NOTHING beats BLM's MAB IV (sch can only get MAB II from /blm) or teir 2 AMs. against things like puddings sch easily out nukes blms (my record on blizzy IV is 1.6k, but my gear semi sucks, highest SCH blizzy IV i've seen being 1.85k) but on things like kirin our nukes suck :/
sure things like phalanxga and en/na spellgas are nice, but rdm has higher enfeeb skill, haste which isn't essential...it helps, though. and without subs one of the biggest drawbacks is we have NO enfeebs other than sleep spells, all enfeebs come from subs. SE actually thought, imo SCH is was RDM was supposed to be. They found a good balance, and played well is an amazing job, but it doesn't have the ability to over shadow the others.
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#17 Jul 11 2008 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Besides SCH is a new job and Cure V isn't the only thing WHM has going for them now. They have Protect/Shell V, Devotion and the other meritable ability, access to haste, regen III, RR III, RIII. IT is good that we have access tot he -na spells because its always hard endgame to have WHMs around to cast Stona on people or whatever else when WHM have to focus on healing the DD and tank. Using accession is also a MP eater and doubles recast timers. If we wanted to counter the effects of accession we would have to use 1-2 more stratagems leaving us down to 1 gem for a while. Also we are hurt if we had to jump from support to nuking which requires a gem to get to our unique spells.

I have yet to be used as a replacement for a WHM in merit or endgame. I have always had people complain about my job lacking haste. I always get placed in a PT with a WHM to help with support or in BLM PT has a storm/buff *****. I have yet to be used as a replacement for a BLM or RDM. Because BLM has more elemental magic skill and the ability to use spells SCH cannot use. RDM has access to stronger enfeebling magic and has higher skill. I have never heard LS leader tell someone to come another job because I was on SCH. I was even turned down from a LS on my server because they required everyone to have WHM RDM or BRD leveled to 75, they didn't consider SCH a strong enough support job and they are one of the best LS on this server.

So if SCH really is overpowered that badly or does enough to push WHM, RDM, BLM out of their job slots in merit or endgame then I wonder what it looks to be a weak support job then if I am treated this way but label as "overpowered". I really don't see why people are so worried about...now if SE gave SCH A+ rating to skills while in dark/light arts, and access to every spell in the game, every job trait RDM, WHM, BLM had and access to all the gear each job can use then...ya you guys can complain about us. =3

Edited, Jul 11th 2008 9:55am by Sayuriko
#18 Jul 11 2008 at 8:22 AM Rating: Decent
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SE made SCH step on the toes of BLM and RDM and a bit of WHM on the side. For people to spend years making their jobs the best they can be only to have SCH come along and match it for nothing and we don't even know what their merits will be yet... means people wasted a lot of time to make themselves better.

I think a lot of it has to do with your perception. If you spend the next 5 years working on SCH day in and day out and SE comes along and makes SCH all but obsolete, you'd not be too thrilled either. Most people that don't care are the ones that don't have real time put into a job that had its toes stepped on.

That being said, I'm both RDM and BLM. I'm thinking of taking SCH to 75 too. But, I fully believe the other jobs need to be rebalanced now.
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#19 Jul 11 2008 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Most people that don't care are the ones that don't have real time put into a job that had its toes stepped on.


I think that the ppl that don't care, are the ones that both, understand what scholar really does and can do, AND understand that sch, whm, blm, rdm, ALL have their place, strong points, etc. and thus, know that none of the above are obsolete, they all have their places and uses, and not even a sch can take that from them.
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#20 Jul 11 2008 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Jereth wrote:
But, I fully believe the other jobs need to be rebalanced now.


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#21 Jul 12 2008 at 1:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mages don't like it because:

A fresh-to-75 SCH can nuke on par with a fresh-to-75 BLM while maintaining greater versatility and self-sufficiency.
It can cast AOE status cures 10 times more often than a WHM and do it on other PTs to boot.
It can give other people phalanx without having to spend merits like a RDM.
Its AOE buffs easily eclipse most of the useful SMN party buffs.

Melees don't like it because:

It doesn't have haste.
It's not a bard.
Enspells make annoying sound effects, seriously.
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#22 Jul 12 2008 at 2:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
SE made SCH step on the toes of BLM and RDM and a bit of WHM on the side. For people to spend years making their jobs the best they can be only to have SCH come along and match it for nothing and we don't even know what their merits will be yet... means people wasted a lot of time to make themselves better.

I think a lot of it has to do with your perception. If you spend the next 5 years working on SCH day in and day out and SE comes along and makes SCH all but obsolete, you'd not be too thrilled either. Most people that don't care are the ones that don't have real time put into a job that had its toes stepped on.

That being said, I'm both RDM and BLM. I'm thinking of taking SCH to 75 too. But, I fully believe the other jobs need to be rebalanced now.


Hmm Rdm was my first job to 75 It is fully merited relic 5/5 ect ect ect so I would think I have put a ton of time (4years) into this job.. My blm is currently 75 and my Sch is 75 so I can speak from all mage sides that are involved in this conversation save for whm.. Sch in no way at all steps on the toes of RDM or BLM period at things like Kirin Cerb or any other endgame event if I tried to nuke on sch all I would get is a ton of resists. Comparison Sch Aero IV on kirin generally lands for 30 damage ..... yea overpowered. And our job defining abilities are only there to help other mages so ummmm.... We wont even discuss helix spells simply because on ANYTHING ENDGAME they are completly LOL..

I will agree that something new would be nice for blm I just hate that I can NEVER get a pty on the job anywhere outside of Mount Z but honestly that was a problem before SCH ever appeared.
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#23 Jul 12 2008 at 4:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Because it's imbalanced and can do thing as well as, if not better, than multiple mage jobs, without even half the gear and merits those jobs require. Strategem charges are an absolute joke of a limitation, and anyone who actually takes time to do the math knows that SCH is simply too good out of the box, with NQ gear and no JS merits.

It's useless for good merit parties because it doesn't have haste, but then again, so is BLM.

SE jumped the shark with that update.

</topic>
#24 Jul 12 2008 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
I get burn merit party invites all the time on my server lol
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#25 Jul 13 2008 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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so what if it doesn't have haste? lol, enspells make up for any dmg lost, and to the person saying helixes were lol in endgame, they pretty much are :/ only mobs i've found them useful are salvage bosses, wit hthe same set up me helixing vs me not helixing the mob there was a 6 minute difference in time killed, from 14 to about 8 minutes
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#26 Jul 13 2008 at 2:58 PM Rating: Default
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so what if it doesn't have haste? lol, enspells make up for any dmg lost

In merits? roflno. Maybe if you think 15k/hr is awesome.
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