V cloak and schFollow

is V cloak REALLY needed for sch? At 75 im having no issues keeping MP with 300 mp per sublimation. the only benefit this would will be campaign and maybe Nyzul assault w/ signets. ya 20mp a min is ok but without rdm refresh to stack on, i'm not sure its a big deal(its not always a brd around).

Give me your thoughts on it

For exp, you wont need it really.

from 57-72 It will be the best body armor you can wear while resting for getting your mp back up fast for less down time until you get errant/mahatma houppelande at 72.

However, once you start using scholar in events/solo/duoing on endgame things and NM's, yes, vermy is extremely useful and any scholar wanting to venture into that territory should find any means possible to get one.

At 72, I'm able to efficiently chain 3 IT mobs back to back without resting due to proper usage of vermy and sublimation. Do you "need" it? no. Will it you be able to perform to a higher standard? yes, if used properly and efficiently.

thanks for the input =)

Only people who have problems in keeping up Sublimation should invest in Vcloak. Especially when you gain your Scholar's Mortarboard.

If you are looking at Mp as an issue, Vcloak would be worth it I guess. But why not use Penury/Parsimny more often. AF > Vcloak, in my opinion and some others it would seem too.

Actually, after lv56 with a /WHM sub, or lv68 with a /RDM sub, you can rest with Sublimation charging as long as you have Stoneskin up. So really its a matter of "Is 700k worth it to you for something you will only use situationally on Scholar?"

As such, I stated in my very first post that it's not NEEDED but will be an extremely valueable asset. To each his/her own I guess. For the things I do it is an incredibley useful piece of gear, and I'd gladly pay for it over and over again. Then again, I'm a huge stickler about being the most efficient I possibly can be.

Perhaps you could give example and further insight into what you're describing? I personally can't think of anything else more efficient than using af hat or vermy during sublimation, af, yigit, or errant/mahatma for nukes, af for enfeebs/drks, and vermy for all times otherwise.

Edited, Apr 25th 2008 6:50am by xXxNaobixXx

I'm glad you stated this. This statement is exactly what I was afraid ppl were interpretting the use of V cloack for. The point I'm trying to get acrossed is that it is NOT used during sublimination. There's no point right? use your M.board and you get 3 per tic which is the equivilant of using 2 per tic and vermy; it kinda cancels it self out so either way you do it is just as effecient (although I prefer the hat over vermy during sublimation stocking to speed up the process, allowing to to use it more frequently). However in that scenario, makes the vermy worthless in a sense of the cost/usage ratio.

Now that that has been covered and out of the way, let's push that aside and address where I am trying to say it makes its usefulness. Now please keep in mind that this is purely based on my personal playstyle and usages of scholar. I'll use the Uggalepih Pendant NM as my first example. You're kiting an NM with a godly amount of HP, that takes 2/3's magic dmg, and kited around in a big circle. It's completely an endurance fight if you're soloing/duoing/trioing it with mages. As a scholar, and due to the mp strain it puts on you to keep going nonstop, I "can" use sublimation as quickly as its recast allows me (yes using af hat not vermy in this instance), dump to my mp pool, aspir, and continue running in vermillion cloak in between recasts. Given the use of Parsimony, the demand for dumping a full load of sublimation into my mp pool that only lacks 100-150 mp at a given time, would be wasteful. Therefore I can get that mp back via V cloak until I'm ready to unload a bunch of spells at proper timing. Then I use sublimation, (again, remphasizing that I'm using af hat during sublimation use). Once it's capped, im back to using aspir/vermy for extra mp gain until my next big unload of dmg.


2nd Scenario: Sea

In sea, my LS tries to make the most use of our members, so much as to split into smaller groups to get 3-4 times more accomplished at a single given amount of time. Because of that, you're almost constantly on the run, spending mp, and getting it back. In that situation, you don't have time to pop a squat with stoneskin on and kickin it with sublimation going. You're trying to suck up as much mp as you can, anywhere you can get it to keep yourself going nonstop (and you can do it). With the usages of sublimation, vermillion cloak, aspir, and even gathering ghrahs or aerns that are relatively close to eachother and using the very scholar friendly Manifestation > Aspir, these tools can keep you near full the entire time while never having to stop.


So again, I'm not arguing the usage of vermillion cloak while sublimation is pulling hp. Im arguing other instances when sublimation is inactive, full, or inefficient at a given time, where vermillion cloak becomes yet another great tool and asset to keep a scholar (a job designed to be all about mp efficiency) as highly mp efficient as possible.

^.^

Edit: Grammar fixes



Edited, Apr 25th 2008 10:28am by xXxNaobixXx

Fixed.

Instead of writing a couple paragraphs saying why someone should spend 700k for an item that's situational at best, you could get some perspective on the actual question.



The answer is "no". When Sublimation is in effect (I.E. the majority of the time), the AF hat has the exact same effect.

A VCloak for SCH is a novelty piece, no one's saying that it's not a helpful equip. If you already have the cloak from WHM, SMN, or w/e then great, but anyone who buys this just for SCH has too much gil lying around.

My statement stands true, a SCH spending 700k for a VCloak is a waste of gil if he's using Sublimation correctly.

For the 3rd time, my very first post to this subject was concise and straight to the point with the same answer your giving but with a bit of intelligence behind it.

Vermy isn't something that is rendered as "situational" gear. If it was something you'd only use at a kirin fight, or only use as at kiting, or only this or that, then situational comes into play. Good sch's will make much use of their vermy in every situation.

Adding "at best" to the end of your statements doesn't miraculously make you right or the statements fact. All it does is show desperation that your perspective on it will hopefully be the final deciding factor, which it won't.

Read first, Understand everything that's being discussed, then debate intellectually like an adult, not an immature condescending moron.



fixed

Edited, Apr 28th 2008 3:25pm by xXxNaobixXx

Double post.

Edited, Apr 28th 2008 11:25pm by ihatetaru

If that's what you personally consider situational, then yes, it's situational gear. But in that context, that would mean that every single piece of gear is situational, as almost nothing that mages wear should be "full-time" use.



yeah... that's mature and appropriate. I could give 2 sh!ts or a f@ck what any other scholar wears. There's ppl here that try to read posts to learn how to become better at their job. There's others here that do nothing more than lurk to tear ppls posts apart to try to make them wrong. There's others that post for no other reason than to get a rise out of others and piss em off. Only thing I'm trying to do is help sch's that want to be more than just an average sch. Nothing more nothing less. The childish squabbling doesn't interest me, so just drop it. Macroing in "situational" pieces of gear to get even the most minor use of them will improve your over-all job and play when all coupled together. That is the one and only thing I'm advocating. Nothing more, nothing less. If ppl don't care to take it that far, then that's their decision. It doesn't make them any better or worse of a player, it's merely their preference of play.




Which is exactly what I said in my very first, 2nd, 3rd, and last post. It's amazing what it takes to get through to ppl on forums and how much they try to pick every little thing apart that they can to turn it around. To each his own I guess, I'll just leave it at that.





Edited, Apr 29th 2008 10:30am by xXxNaobixXx

Again, you're taking what i said, out of its context, isolating it, to make it look wrong. What i DID say, however, is:

" once you start using scholar in events/solo/duoing on endgame things and NM's, yes, vermy is extremely useful and any scholar wanting to venture into that territory should find any means possible to get one."


And again:

Yes just like you don't NEED to have a car, but it's extremely useful.



Which is exactly NOT what I said, nor implied. No piece of gear in the game is "necessary" there is and will always be other gear that can be used in place of that may not be as good but still suitable. What I implied is that it will help push a players effeciency over the edge of average, just as your hauby analogy would. Nor is that piece of gear necessary either, my war is 75 and I rarely use the hauby. Could I be more a more efficient war if i used it? yes, undeniabley, do I "NEED" it, nope.



And never once did I disagree with it. But it will help, it will be more efficient, and when sch's and players of any job, do all the small things that add efficiency, it all adds up and they become an extremely efficient and great player of their job. That simply all I was getting at before the symantecs started.

im going to start a thread exploring the validity of HQ staves for sch because its my only mage job and i dont nuke that much

Already did that.

Honestly I agree that Vermy is really good for scholar. I've had it since 59 and I don't see any better alternative. I work it into my Light Arts macro because there is no better gear to support you when you're playing a support class. Should I find the need to switch into dark arts, I macro my AF hat and robe but lately as I've been coming to exp on imps and colibri, my black magic is less and less needed than it was in my late 40s and early 50s.

I can see that the AF hat is a viable alternative to solo'ers, who will be in black arts more often, but when you're light arts, with ballad/evoker's roll and sitting on a 50-75% full MP tank, with a full stratagem charge, nothing is better than the vermy to ensure that you have the means necessary to deal with links, dropping multiple cures, and using MP-expensive AoE stratagems without needing to rely on the 1/2 MP stratagem to go in tandem.

In all fairness - vermy is NOT a godly piece or something that is essential, but besides a full yigit set, it is the best option that scholars have available, and I can't see any better alternatives (i.e. a head/body combo that will out-do a constant 20 mp/minute) for the 60-early 70's stretch, and I have certainly tried to find them.

Edited, Jun 4th 2008 11:30pm by KarusTheGreat

An alternate method to charging a full sub then using a vermy when not at max MP recovered is to try to always ensure you are below that 250-270MP cap, which is far more efficient than the first situation:

Situation One - - - - - - - - - - - - Potential MP Lost/Gained (Base 3)
Charge sub with head or vermy (0mp/tick)
Sub is full, swap to vermy (-2mp/tick)
Utilize x seconds later. (+250MP)
Wait 25 secs on recast with vermy (-2mp/tick)
Charge sub with head or vermy (loop)

Situation Two
Charge sub with head or vermy (0mp/tick)
Sub is full, use immediately (+250MP)
Wait 25s for recast (-2mp/tick)
Charge sub with head or vermy (loop)

In Situation 1, you are losing a potential 2mp for every 3 seconds you wait for you to use your MP from the moment sub is full to the moment you drop below your own personal Sub Threshold over Situation 2.

Whilst you have to appreciate that it is often hard to always be below the Sub Threshold, especially for solo situations, you can tweak values slightly based on your role as nuker (e.g. Using Ebullience over Parsimony to drop below the Sub Threshold) or healer.

exit V-Cloak
enter iCloak

CRAP! APPLE came out with a cloak now too!?!?! gotta get rid of my old cloak and get the shiny new i-cloak i wonder if it plays mp4s gotta have ass kicking music when your kicking ass


lol couldn't resist