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Which helix spellFollow

#1 Feb 21 2008 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Is luminohelix the only helix spell that is used once you hit lvl 75? I'm thinking since the helix spells are tiered making luminohelix the strongest, and the fact that just about everything in the game is weak to light attacks, we probably won't have any need to use any other spell. Maybe if you find yourself in fire or even double fire weather it would be better to use the (fire)helix spell. Pretty sure (dark)heliix spells wins out in dynamis which is double dark but thats a lvl 73 spell. Curious what any lvl 75 scholar has found out.
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#2 Feb 22 2008 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent
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only 66 but i try to match up day with my weather or monster weakness. i can imagine luminohelix being the preferred spell simply b/c its the last spell obtained.
#3 Feb 22 2008 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Obiar wrote:
I'm thinking since the helix spells are tiered making luminohelix the strongest
Since when are Helix spells tiered? Just because you learn them at different levels doesn't mean they have different base damage.
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#4 Feb 22 2008 at 8:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I was sure they were. Guess I'll double check.
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#5xXSaphieraXx, Posted: Feb 22 2008 at 9:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It seems it would best endgame at least. Although I dont have SCH up that high it is basic knowledge in any mage or melee job that the best spells are saved for last I.E. Chocobo Mazurka, Light Helix, Tier 4 BLM spells, Any job's Best WS, Dread spikes, etc etc. RRIII, Raise III, so i dont think i really need to go any further in explaining this. It may not be written down but it is basic knowledge in the world of FFXI in saying "Best for last" Unless you find yourself in one of those situations where best wouldnt be better like for instance double fire weather so you use the fire helix and the mob is weak to fire dmg things like that. I'm so tired right now lol I probably sound like i'm rambling atm but oh well at least you get my point.
#6 Feb 23 2008 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Helix spells are not tiered in my experience. It seems they all have the same base damage and scale up or down based on weather, day, INT, and enemy resistances.
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#7 Feb 23 2008 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I assume we get dark and light last due to Dark and light (purely of that element) spells are kinda rare in the game. Making SCH one of the few mages who can cause dark elemental and light elemental dmg. Light and Dark seem to be the overall most powerful elements in the game...well in ffxiness I guess. B

Esp when it comes to nukes...

Is there a Dark element based nuke in the game? I'm not sure.

And I dont believe there is a Light based nuke in the game either. Cant really count banish since doesnt that count by divine skill?

They probably arent tiered...but sorta in order of importance I suppose.
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#8 Feb 24 2008 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Drain, Drain II, MP Drainkiss, Digest, Blood Saber, Eyes On Me, and the Bio Line of spells are all Darkness Elemental Nukes. Inversely the Banish Line, Dia Line, Magic Hammer, 1000 Needles, Radiant Breath are all Light Elemental nukes. Have to remember for Bio and Dia, it deals a set amount of damage before the DoT kicks in afterwards.

The lvls of storms and helices acquired simply follow the order of when RDM when and BLM (and SCH)get nukes with Dark and Light tacked on at the end:

Stone -> Water -> Wind -> Fire -> Thunder -> (Dark -> Light ->) Stone, etc.

They aren't tiered by any means either, only subject to resists due to Mob INT, elemental alignment, Elemental Skill lvl, etc.
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#9 Feb 24 2008 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Drain, Drain II, MP Drainkiss, Digest, Blood Saber, Eyes On Me, and the Bio Line of spells are all Darkness Elemental Nukes.


Not sure for "Blue Magic" Spells....but isnt Drain, Aspir, Bio, Drain II all actually Dark MAGIC skill dependent?


Quote:
Inversely the Banish Line,


But doesnt banish fall under Divine skill?


Quote:
Have to remember for Bio and Dia, it deals a set amount of damage before the DoT kicks in afterwards.


Those fall under enfeebling skill as well.

I'm talking about Light or Dark Dmg that is dependent on elemental skill. IE light and dark nukes.

*Just checked online*

None of the above spells mention actually fall into elemental skill nukes. So our light and Dark helix are the only offensive elemental light and dark spells directly effected by elemental skill.
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#10 Feb 24 2008 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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They're not tiered.

For the most part, I check out the day, cast the appropriate weather on myself, then cast the -helix. Best case would be to get a skillchain that matches the element of the day, then magic burst it with Ebullience up against a monster that isn't strong to the element.
#11 Feb 25 2008 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent
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EarthSage, even tho they are all under Dark, Divine, and Enfeebling magic skills, they are still technically checked as "nukes" by the games system, just like the Blue Magic spells. Not all nukes are Elemental Magic spells, you know (you never really make it clear you were talking about [Elemental] Skill based nukes. >.>)

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 4:42am by ShokotanKnight
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#12 Feb 25 2008 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
.E. Chocobo Mazurka


nitpick, but a bard's best spell is carnage elegy, and we don't learn that at 75
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#13 Feb 25 2008 at 5:23 AM Rating: Default
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One of the first people to test the helix claimed they were tiered, when conducting tests in ballista. From what I've seen in my own testing: they are tiered, but the difference is insignificant. If you go out and cast a couple different helix on level 0 mobs, you'll notice the damage varying by only a point or so with every two spells in the sequence. Obviously day, weather, and mob resists are going to win over tiers.

But to answer the OP's question, cryohelix is actually the best. Ice is a pretty solid element as far as resists go and INT (from an ice staff) has a huge impact on helix damage. Plus, most mages already have a HQ ice staff.


Obiar wrote:
Pretty sure (dark)heliix spells wins out in dynamis which is double dark
Provided it's not resisted. I'm not sure if the mobs there would be strong against dark. There's a lot of demons and evil-ish stuff in dynamis.

Edited, Feb 26th 2008 10:03pm by Nateypoo
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#14 Feb 25 2008 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Nateypoo wrote:
If you go out and cast a couple different helix on level 0 mobs, you'll notice the damage varying by only a point or so with every two spells in the sequence.


Naked SCH75/BLM37 hume with INT72 on Tiny Mandragoras outside Windurst.

Geohelix: 112
Hydrohelix: 124 (Watersday)
Anemohelix: 112
Pyrohelix: 100 (Watersday)
Cryohelix: 112
Ionohelix: 112
No variation outside of the day weather bonus.

SCH75/BLM37 hume with INT72+41 on Tiny Mandragoras outside Windurst.
Geohelix: 145
Hydrohelix: 158 (Watersday)
Anemohelix: 145
Pyrohelix: 130 (Watersday)
Cryohelix: 145
Ionohelix: 145
No variation outside of the day weather bonus.

SCH75/BLM37 hume with INT72+41 (+15% MAB in equipment) on Tiny Mandragoras outside Windurst.
Geohelix: 165
Hydrohelix: 180 (Watersday)
Anemohelix: 165
Pyrohelix: 148 (Watersday)
Cryohelix: 167 (INT+4 on Ice Staff)
Ionohelix: 165
No variation outside of the day weather bonus/Ice Staff's INT+4

Cryohelix would be the best spell, given that you could control the other factors (Iceday, mob weak against Ice, Ice skillchain) due to the INT bonus on the Ice Staff, as Nateypoo said.

EDIT: I typo'd Hydrohelix 3 times and one of the damages. Ug.

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 12:39pm by Tidane
#15 Feb 26 2008 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Threnodies are all different elements, and they aren't tiered either. They all reduce the same amount of resistance. Granted they may not be offensive magic, but that's one thing to keep on mind in terms of some of the arguments on here.
#16 Feb 26 2008 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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Any job's Best WS



Rampage, guillotine, sidewinder, slugshot, blade:jin, penta thrust, need I go on?

just because something comes last doesn't mean it's best.
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#17 Feb 26 2008 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Xkallybhur wrote:
Quote:
Any job's Best WS



Rampage, guillotine, sidewinder, slugshot, blade:jin, penta thrust, need I go on?

just because something comes last doesn't mean it's best.


Shit's situational.
#18 Feb 26 2008 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Nnn durrr Smiley: boozing lol disregard this post I had a brain **** and then some.

Edited, Feb 26th 2008 8:57pm by RamseySylph
#19 Feb 26 2008 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Weird, it must have been from the +INT on light and dark staves. I was pretty sure I didn't use staves when I was testing it, but it was a long time ago.
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#21 Feb 27 2008 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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NynJaaa wrote:
Just for the record, all of the helix's cost the same amount of MP. Usually when things are tiered, they differ in MP cost and/or casting time. In the case of the Helixes, they are all 87 MP with a 41 second recast time (cast time unknown).


Someone asked me what the MP cost, cast, and recast were on -helix spells. I told them and someone else refuted me. I argued, told them to level Scholar.

Then I took off Dark Arts and they were right. Who the **** casts helix spells without Dark Arts though?
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