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Weather Spells...what now?Follow

#1 Jan 28 2008 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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I've read several topics on here and I see descriptions and different opinions on the Weather Effect spells starting at 41. It might be somewhere on the forum, but I couldn't find it.

My main question, what exactly do these spells do? Ive heard things about slight potency of spells, less risks of being resisted, activating latent effects, casting it on tank, casting it on self, summoners, etc. But its all said in an air of uncertainty. Is there any "official" description of what these spells are suppose to do. All the sites I see say "Adds weather effect to target". Ok... is that really it?
#2 Jan 28 2008 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think there's anything really 'official' about it other than what we've seen/proven. SE themselves said that adding weather effects to party members who have equipment with weather based latent effects will give them the latents. I'd assume the same would work for the Gorgets from sea as well as other less defined gear. Other than this, it's been seen that giving party members various weather effects increases their potency/accuracy with spells of the same element just as having naturally occuring weather would. As far as usefulness goes well.. that's kind of up to the user. I had a SCH in a party with me as I was on DRK in the 60s who was offering me and the white mage weather alternately to help us out. With Dark Weather on me I had less trouble sticking absorb spells and the White mage was seeing better cures- it was consistant but it beat the terrible resist rate I was getting on what we were fighting.
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#3 Jan 28 2008 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with everything Belkira said. Here is some more info:

Spell Accuracy and Damage
The character under the effect of a weather spell will have a 33-50% chance of receiving a 10% bonus to elemental spell accuracy and potency for spells of the same element. You can see this in damage numbers for elemental spells and HP for curing spells directly, but the accuracy of elemental and enfeebling magic is also believed to be increased.

For example, if I cast Firestorm on a BLM, his Flare spell will have a 33-50% chance of a 10% bonus to accuracy and damage.

SCH weather seems to overwrite zone weather if the zone weather is different. I don't think anyone has proved this conclusively except on equipment (see below).

Equipment Activation
Weather spells do activate equipment that is based on weather. For example, they activate the elemental sea Obis and Dessert Boots. Despite some ambiguous descriptions on these items, only the single weather effect is needed to cause the latent to occur, and SCH spells offer this single weather effect.

A nice list of equipment and spells can be found here:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=20;mid=1194122629278032256;num=45;page=1

Weather spells do NOT activate equipment that is based on DAY. This seems obvious but many people get excited about it working on avatar rings, but it does not.

You cannot receive the latent effect from two different pieces that are activated by different weather. For example, if one is activated by rain and another by sand, and the zone is rainy and you have sandstorm cast on you, only the sand equipment's latent will activate.

Helix Spells
If the SCH casts a helix that matches their current weather, the 10% damage increase occurs 100% of the time, not 33-50%.

Miscellaneous
Weather spells do NOT fill the Carbuncle Ruby for the SMN flag quest.

Speculation
Does SCH weather completely overwrite zone weather?
It's been shown that this is true for equipment activation only, when zone weather differs from the weather spell. What is not known is if spell casting is only affected by the SCH weather, or if SCH weather stacks to create double or triple weather when it matches the zone weather. Some people have reported that this stacking of same weather does happen.

Does casting a weather spell on the mob's current target affect accuracy of spells cast on the mob from other players?

Does weather have any effect on crafting?

Do weather spells have any barspell-type effect giving you resistence to, say, bomb-toss, when Rainstorm is up?

Evaluation (mine)
For waiting 41 levels and not being able to sub these, their confirmed effects seem underwhelming. Good in certain situations (e.g. sandstorm on a kiter wearing Dessert Boots), but for 60 levels they're the only unique spells SCH gets and their single weather potency seems like too little, in addition to their long recast time and rather short duration. They look cool and are a very cool concept but in practice are underpowered. People on this and other forums have had fantastic ideas on how to enhance them.

Edited, Jan 28th 2008 1:12pm by MordruMidgard
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#4 Jan 28 2008 at 10:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Basically, the spell gives the player with the effect on them the chance to get the bonus of that weather (just like the real weather). It also activates latents of the weather. From what I've seen using them, it really isn't worth it until you get the Sea Obis. The time I spend casting Thunderstorm is better spent doing something else.

The other stuff that watchamacallit posted, I have no idea. I only skimmed the thread and didn't bother with something that doesn't have any real testing. Maybe when I'm bored one day I'll try it out, but I'm not going to waste time casting -storm spells on random tanks until that can be confirmed.
#5 Jan 28 2008 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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MordruMidgard wrote:
For waiting 41 levels and not being able to sub these, their confirmed effects seem underwhelming. Good in certain situations (e.g. sandstorm on a kiter wearing Dessert Boots), but for 60 levels they're the only unique spells SCH gets and their single weather potency seems like too little, in addition to their long recast time and rather short duration. They look cool and are a very cool concept but in practice are underpowered. People on this and other forums have had fantastic ideas on how to enhance them.

I assume we'll see some kind of change to them, but is it just me or does it feel like the Weather Spells and the Helices should have been reversed in terms of when we received them?
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#6 Jan 28 2008 at 11:07 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Speculation
Does SCH weather completely overwrite zone weather?
It's been shown that this is true for equipment activation only, when zone weather differs from the weather spell. What is not known is if spell casting is only affected by the SCH weather, or if SCH weather stacks to create double or triple weather when it matches the zone weather. Some people have reported that this stacking of same weather does happen.


i had earth weather made me do 1400 thunder IVs when im supposed to get 1600 from thunder weather + obi
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#7 Jan 28 2008 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
i had earth weather made me do 1400 thunder IVs when im supposed to get 1600 from thunder weather + obi


Really? You mean there was earth weather in the zone and you had thunderstorm active on you? Your 1400 would indicate both opposing weathers were taking effect then, right, or somehow the Obi effect was not 100%? I assume you weren't noticing this on earth day... How often did you get the reduced damage with thunderstorm and earth weather in zone?

I've noticed matching weathers stacking, but never different zone weather affecting a spell when I had weather matching the spell active.

I spent one night casting around 200 times Fire 2 and Water 2 in Yuhtunga jungle on gob smithys. I would regularly see the bonuses stack when zone weather matched my weather spell. With single rain weather in the zone and rainstorm on I would toggle between normal damage, +10% damage and +20% damage using Water 3 on Windsday. With double rain weather in the zone, I would get anywhere from normal damage, to +10%, +20% and rarely a +25% (the bonus cap I believe).

With Firestorm + Fire 2 and rain weather I would only get my normal damage or the 10% bonus damage, with both single and double rain weather in the zone. I never got a -10% once. I did this over Earthday, Windsday and Iceday, around 100 casts per spell (skipped Watersday).
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#8 Jan 28 2008 at 4:30 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I assume we'll see some kind of change to them, but is it just me or does it feel like the Weather Spells and the Helices should have been reversed in terms of when we received them?


I really hope they are powered up. If this is my only chance at geomancer, I'd like tier 2 spells that do double weather, some kind of latent effect like +stats, spells that open up, or a Geomancy JA that adds buffs to a person dependent on their weather. I'd also like to see AOE versions.

I thought we got the weather spells too late. I don't know about helixes coming before them because I see them as the SCH version if tier 4 nukes, though they don't seem to be as powerful overall. However, I was expecting at least access to the elemental enfeebles natively at early levels.

Both of these spell groups just seem like the most simple, thoughtless way of implementing weather related abilities. Like they had SCH all designed as the hybrid mage and said "oh crap everyone is asking for GEO, let's shut them up."
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#9 Jan 29 2008 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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MordruMidgard wrote:
I really hope they are powered up. If this is my only chance at geomancer, I'd like tier 2 spells that do double weather, some kind of latent effect like +stats, spells that open up, or a Geomancy JA that adds buffs to a person dependent on their weather. I'd also like to see AOE versions.

I thought we got the weather spells too late. I don't know about helixes coming before them because I see them as the SCH version if tier 4 nukes, though they don't seem to be as powerful overall. However, I was expecting at least access to the elemental enfeebles natively at early levels.

Both of these spell groups just seem like the most simple, thoughtless way of implementing weather related abilities. Like they had SCH all designed as the hybrid mage and said "oh crap everyone is asking for GEO, let's shut them up."

Dammit, I had a lot more respect for you until you mentioned that you wanted Geomancer. =P

Forgive me, I'm going wild speculation for a moment...

I think we got the Helix spells too late. I would have rather seen Helices from 40-65 with a Job Trait/AF effect/Merit to increase potency and/or duration late. Actually, I'm still holding out for something to increase their potency and/or duration, but I suspect that'll be merits.

As for weather, ignoring the fact that it's not very useful right now and should have their duration and/or recast modified, I still believe we'll see something that will modify a single to double weather effect, but that in-and-of itself won't be much either.

What concerns me is that SE will slap Blink and Stoneskin (or variations thereof) on the job class pre-37 and wash their hands of it for 6 months. I understand they wanted potent subjobs from these two, but SCH doesn't offer anything unique or essential at late levels or endgame, and that really needs to be changed earlier rather than later.

I've been following some very good ideas on the BG discussion as of late, and if SE takes a third of them, I'll be very content with this job class, but for now... it just feels unfinished to me.
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#10 Jan 29 2008 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
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I said this on KI after someone was talkign about helix. there is quite a number of things that work differenty as sub then the main job so one could say just block these spells out for sub.

the helix formula we use now could be used on a level 1 helix, the formula for helix damage relfects what would be inbetween aero I and fire I.

with this being said and the fact that the primery fuction of a magic job can be seen at level 1, RDM get dia, BLM get stone I, RDM get cure, the first gen helix could start at level I as well and make it so you cant use them as subed.

then the second gen would start at 61 etc with a new formula.

and yes mount Z has earth and fire weather -_-

edit kind of read wrong:
Quote:
Really? You mean there was earth weather in the zone and you had thunderstorm active on you? Your 1400 would indicate both opposing weathers were taking effect then, right, or somehow the Obi effect was not 100%? I assume you weren't noticing this on earth day... How often did you get the reduced damage with thunderstorm and earth weather in zone?


i did not note this, I was doing this when SCH was new and was just messing around with things, my blm does need a buffer maybe i can take down better data when i do.

Edited, Jan 29th 2008 11:17am by RambustheRDMtaru
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"He taught me the only way to be strong was Through utter lack of remorse.
To make sure I did not end up like one of those pansy white or barbarian red mages,
He taught me that death and destruction are what truly great black mages contribute to the history pages."
Shantotto, Vana'diel Tribune II Nov. 30, 2004
#11 Jan 29 2008 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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Acturus wrote:
stuff


Agreed. We get "our defining spells" level 41-55 or 61-75. Come on SE. The weather spells, in all honesty, are not that good. They are nearly completely useless, have a long recast, and take a decent amount of time to cast. If the recast and usefulness were lowered and increased, I would have no problem with the casting time. ****, the duration sucks too, as you said.

61-75. The end of the game for "the spells" that are Scholar. Not only that, but we don't get spells from 1-60 that really make up for that. I made a post somewhere around here about the number of spells (subless) that BLM, WHM, RDM, and SCH have. Scholar was the lowest (but hey, we beat out Dark Knight by a few!) of the mages. The worst part is the lack of any defensive spells (for use as a real sub on certain jobs) and the lack of enfeebles (which means we're really tied to /RDM if we want White and Black enfeebles along with defensive ability). I picked up the job because I thought SE might do some cool things with it. If we don't see a fix in this next update, I suspect we'll be waiting a long (years) time for a fix.
#12 Jan 29 2008 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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Agreed again. I had fun playing the first 40 levels but it got really tiring just waiting for spells I already knew to open up again, with nothing original. Wanting to make a great sub us fine, but why does it have to be JUST that? It should be fun to play on its own. It should be GEO O.o

I'm also afraid SS and blink will be the ony additions. If so there's not enough to make me interested in continuing. And since I came out of 6 month hiatus to play SCH, it looks like I'll be suspending the content ID again and saving $13 per month.

I expect some kind of weather enhancement on the AF also. But just giving it double effect really won't change the fun factor of playing the job at all, it will just make the current abilities slightly less useless.

I love some of the ideas on BG. They are unique, would be fun to play and wouldn't be game breaking.

I understand the idea of helices coming sooner now. It would have made sense to be able to do damage based on weather before being able to change the weather. Then the storms would have had more excitement when learned, and they would have been a natural progression of power ups to the helices.
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#13 Jan 30 2008 at 6:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, most jobs get their "class defining" abilities starting at level 40. If we are really expected to have weather effects as class defining, then I see no reason to have not pushed the first 6 Helices out prior to 37. In a perfect world, SCH main would get a 90-120 second duration on a Helix, and SCH sub would get a 30-60 second duration with reduced potency. In following with other elemental increases, save Light and Dark Helices for levels 38 and 40.

Obviously this is not a perfect world, and I'm still betting on a fix to both the helix line and the storm line, but I'm with ModruMidgard, playing SCH pre-41 is like playing a waiting game for rewards that you've seen before. ****, even at 41 there's nothing fantastic except the Strategem you got a level ago.
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#14 Jan 30 2008 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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acturus wrote:
****, even at 41 there's nothing fantastic except the Strategem you got a level ago.


Exactly. Though I did like the Sandstorm animation, for like an hour. But Thunderstorm is my favorite :)

I agree about getting class defining abilities after 40 in terms of the major ones you use constantly, like Convert, Refresh, etc. But don't all other mage jobs get something unique and useful, if not job defining, way before that? Enspells, Gravity, Dispel, Phalanx, elemental enfeebles, Warp, -na's, etc. SMN has to wait till the 20s for useful abilities but man at least you can whip out all those avatars at level 1! The boring pre-40 strategems don't count either!

I'm converted to the school of some form of early helices, and like the idea of dumbing them down when subbed. I also like what someone else posted about a JA "Geomancy" (sorry man :P) that when used on a player gives them a weather-specific buff, like Store TP if their weather is fire, MACC for Hail, etc. If that came at level 25, we could at least take advantage of zone weather before we could use storms, and it wouldn't be broken for /SCH because you would never be able to change the weather.
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#15 Feb 13 2008 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Can someone clear something up for me? Apologies if I've missed it. My SCH is 36 so I can't yet test it. My original aim was to get it to 37 and forget about it but I'm a lot more interested in it now...

1)When you cast a weather spell - how is that shown on the person that has the new weather on them?

2)Does the weather effect completely replace any weather in the zone?

3) Can you overwrite double-weather with a SCH single weather spell?

It might be that I've gotten the wrong idea about how it works but essentially I want to know for example if as SCH I could give a WHM light weather in Apollyon which overwrites the double dark weather.
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#16 Feb 28 2008 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Good rather than start a new thread, I just figured I'd boost this one back up.

Quote:
Spell Accuracy and Damage
The character under the effect of a weather spell will have a 33-50% chance of receiving a 10% bonus to elemental spell accuracy and potency for spells of the same element. You can see this in damage numbers for elemental spells and HP for curing spells directly, but the accuracy of elemental and enfeebling magic is also believed to be increased.


So we've tested this then and we get a chance of getting a 10% boost..it's not a more higher % than it..I mean a spell that lasts for 2 min just to get a chance at a 10% increase? Now THAT I wouldn't mind changing during the update.

Anyways, I was going to ask something I looked at the Wiki..

Quote:
Skillchains, being based on one or multiple elements, are also increased in power in their elemental weather. For instance, during the above Fire weather, Liquefaction and Fusion will have a chance to do more damage.


This is the part that interests me. We are making a very smalL XP pt for jobs to take to 75. In it is DNC / SCH / RDM and another DNC toggling PUP along the way. So we're interested in doing the old way of things SC and such.

I was curious to if our weather spells helped with SC's. Now if I put something wrong here just tell me to be honest I'm a mage player..now I'm trying my 2nd Melee job. first one was pup. If our SCH has the weather spells and say we want to make.. Scission (Earth.) and our small party makes an SC that ends with.. Seraph Blade (Light Based Element Sword Weapon Skill..right?)

Now the skillchain itself is earth, but the ending SC element is Light. Which would be best for our SCH to shove on the sword bearing job ending the SC? Light? Since I'm told that the ending WS is what makes the SC stronger, or Earth? Since the actual SC is earth based. Though I know the Storm's are only on the single person..that single person is the one who is making the Earth based SC with a Light Based WS.

Quote:
Note that these weather effects also apply to enemy attacks and spells as well. In this same instance, the Lizard-family's special attack "Fireball" can do more damage than usual.


Wiki said this later on, I know wiki isn't 100% accurate but I would figure half the info I could find that's true is on there..I was wondering since putting Firestorm on a member, don't know WHY I would, makes the lizard's attack stronger. Could I use a different Storm spell..kind of like a reverse barspell? Since Water weakens fire, would someone who has Rainstorm on them tend to have a better chance at resisting some a fire-based spell?
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#17 Feb 28 2008 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
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eldelphia wrote:
1)When you cast a weather spell - how is that shown on the person that has the new weather on them?


Icon at the top of the screen.

eldelphia wrote:
2)Does the weather effect completely replace any weather in the zone?


If the weather is dusty and you cast Firestorm, you get the bonus of Firestorm until Firestorm wears off.

eldelphia wrote:
3) Can you overwrite double-weather with a SCH single weather spell?


Haven't tried. If it doesn't, it should, because those spells are already too weak to bother with 99% of the time. If they did take precedence over double weather, it could be useful in, as you said, Apollyon.
#18 Feb 29 2008 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
If the weather is dusty and you cast Firestorm, you get the bonus of Firestorm until Firestorm wears off.


So we won't be both benefits then? If a person is casting say Fire IV..in that situation he'd get the boost possibly, but if he were to cast Stone IV he wouldn't have any chance at all to get the boost?

Also I was wondering since our Weather spells fall under enhancing magic, does having or stacking enhancing or MND since..for SOME spells that seems to be the corresponding stat with the skill..give a greater chance of that 10% to be given to the person? Or has nobody tested it at all yet?

I know it goes with the rest of my line of questions. ^^
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#19 Feb 29 2008 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Unclear wrote:
Quote:
If the weather is dusty and you cast Firestorm, you get the bonus of Firestorm until Firestorm wears off.


So we won't be both benefits then? If a person is casting say Fire IV..in that situation he'd get the boost possibly, but if he were to cast Stone IV he wouldn't have any chance at all to get the boost?

Also I was wondering since our Weather spells fall under enhancing magic, does having or stacking enhancing or MND since..for SOME spells that seems to be the corresponding stat with the skill..give a greater chance of that 10% to be given to the person? Or has nobody tested it at all yet?

I know it goes with the rest of my line of questions. ^^


I haven't tested it, but it wouldn't be very hard. Go to a zone that gets a weather often, cast something else on yourself. Helix matching your weather buff then helix matching the current zone weather (make sure there's no day bonus, of course). I don't think it would work like that, though, because then you have the chance for your bonus to process then the natural zone weather has the chance to counter that.

I doubt enhancing magic effects that rate at which the weather spells kick in. No test, but I feel that SE would just take the weather effect, focus it to a single target, then let it do exactly the same thing. That's the easy way out.
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