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SCH would totally suck for SoloFollow

#1 Jan 23 2008 at 8:27 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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I think everyone must have known this.
SCH relies heavily on MP.
BLM also relies on MP however they have SLEEP.
SCH is not like a RDM where they have Refresh and Convert.

Sleep is very useful spell to fight mobs as you can regain MPs.
SCH was told to be a very good at DoT.

I onces partied with a BLM as a WHM at lvl 75 we were fighting mob that is lvl 70's. I accidently cast Bio on the mob and almost got us both killed because we can't put the mob to sleep.

Without Warp, Escape, Teleport, I can see that SCH is only good for Mid to Low level enemies. What is your opinion?
#2 Jan 23 2008 at 8:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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1. SCH/BST
2. Helix
3. ???
4. Profit
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#3 Jan 23 2008 at 8:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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In other news, Kaeko of Odin server solo'd SCH from 1-75 in around two months.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/15452.html

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#4 Jan 23 2008 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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/RDM for defensive buffs, MAB, sleeps, bind, gravity, and fast cast.

I'll agree that for really hard stuff SCH just can't rely on Gravity/Bind for DOT'ing. They can't have those spells and /NIN at the same time, which is what's needed for assured survival using that tactic. Also, they can't rely on their enfeebles as much as a RDM or even BLM (but the latter only because gear options are still limited with no AF/JSE).
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#5 Jan 23 2008 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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1. Gravity/Bind
2. Helix
3. ???
4. Profit!

What's the point of sleeping a monster that you are gonna DoT really?

Also subbing BLM or RDM gives Sleep to scholar. Yes scholars can have a subjob!

Also did SE ever said Scholar would be an awesome Solo job?
#6 Jan 23 2008 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I suppose you can use Blm guide to solo and apply it to Scholar. It is harder to solo as Scholar, but it is possible. Slow but doable. Duo is usually better if you have to do a small party. With the lack of people levelling jobs at lower levels, you should try making duo or trio party and check the camp in the past. Sigil is extremely nice bonus for Scholar's small party. The ability to flip flop as healer and nuker is a great benefits for Scholar. You can easily get 3-4k per hour, on par with normal party at lower lvls. Thanks for the link to Scholar's solo, will definitely check it out.
#8 Jan 26 2008 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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One very nice thing about scholar is that you very rarely get your spells interrupted due to the fast cast. That makes a huge difference on soloing compared to blm which really can never afford to get hit.
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#9 Jan 26 2008 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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ya, i've been soloing sch same way as BLM solo bst pets. its the same thing, just as easy...
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#10 Feb 07 2008 at 1:20 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
One very nice thing about scholar is that you very rarely get your spells interrupted due to the fast cast. That makes a huge difference on soloing compared to blm which really can never afford to get hit.


You mean how you cast 5% slower than a BLM/RDM, who actually can take some hits with their Stoneskin and Blink?

Right..
#11 Feb 07 2008 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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I've been soloing on and off since 23... and I'm 33 now. Been focusing in this sub in the last 10 days. It's not bad. Bind is your friend and so is alacrity.
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#12 Feb 07 2008 at 4:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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eldelphia wrote:
I've been soloing on and off since 23... and I'm 33 now. Been focusing in this sub in the last 10 days. It's not bad. Bind is your friend and so is alacrity.


So are Campaign Ops.
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Before you ask a stupid crafting question, read this.
milich wrote:
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Everytime Arcturus sees this, he starts to die inside.......I know it D:
actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

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#13 Feb 07 2008 at 12:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You mean how you cast 5% slower than a BLM/RDM, who actually can take some hits with their Stoneskin and Blink?


Doesn't sch/rdm get blink/stoneskin/phalanx as well? And none of scholar's spells take as long as blm spells to cast. Why are you always bashing magic jobs that are not blm/whm/rdm?
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#14 Feb 07 2008 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Figured I'd weigh in since I was mentioned...

SCH/RDM is pretty good as a soloer, especially after 72 when you get access to Errant Gear. As someone mentioned earlier in here, the casting speed is really really nice - you basically get the same casting speed as a /RDM but an extra -10% due to arts bonus. It took me awhile to get used once I hit 70+ (fast cast II), and it is pretty noticable when you solo.

I think for anyone who's got decent experience working with a RDM/BLM or a BLM/RDM, this is an easy job to solo your way through. The damage is pretty sub-par compared to a BLM, but it's pretty MP efficient and durable with Stoneskin and Blink.

Once you hit 75, you can really solo every normal mob a BLM can solo - it just takes longer; but you can do it. You have access to the same basic tools a BLM/RDM gets - at least 1 sleep, gravity, bind, aspir, drain, reasonable nukes, etc. I do think it takes a bit more tact since you have more speed to mess with and fewer sleep spells, but it is pretty good imo. Playstyle is honestly so similar to BLM/RDM, I use about 90% same macro layout as my BLM/RDM. Felt like I was just releveling BLM again.
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#15 Feb 08 2008 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You mean how you cast 5% slower than a BLM/RDM, who actually can take some hits with their Stoneskin and Blink?


Actually, SCH/RDM cast 10% faster than BLM/RDM, Access to Blink/Stoneskin/Phalanx.

Soloing as SCH and BLM is different,
as SCH you Bind/Gravity + DoT.
As BLM you Sleep/Nuke.

I personally prefer BLM play style since it's a bit "safer", but SCH has good solo potential too.
#16 Feb 11 2008 at 2:11 AM Rating: Default
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Have you ever tried soloing with bind/gravity? I have, and it blows. First of all, the helix aren't as strong as you think. It takes quite some time to DoT a mob down with them. This means bind/gravity are going to wear well before the mob is dead. God forbid you get partial resists on enfeebles too, because you can kiss your *** goodbye. It's not like BLM or RDM, where you can casually toss out a sleep, sleep II, or whatever your preferred backup plan is. SCH does not have this luxury.

There's a huge advantage sleeping has over kiting. With kiting there's the potential to run out of MP. You cannot even afford to cure yourself after a mishap, for fear of not having enough MP to finish the mob. The only reason kiting works well for RDM is because it has MP tools like refresh and convert. Sleeping is far superior, because you can easily rest back enough MP to save yourself in an otherwise dire situation.

If you're relying mostly on DoT, you've got a lot of running ahead of you too. This brings me to my next point: in order to kite, you have to have room for it. Most goblin pet camps are infested with tons of mobs that can obliterate you, and there are few safe places to kite. You're far better off going SCH/BLM and sleep/nuking, even if you don't have stoneskin or blink. You also get spells MUCH later than you realize off of subjobs. SCH does not have native stoneskin, blink, bind, gravity, OR sleep. Since all of these rely on subjobs, you must be twice the level of a BLM or RDM before the same strategies become practical. This puts you at a huge disadvantage until levels 40 and 42, when you get sleep and gravity off BLM and RDM subs.

Compared to other jobs, SCH is inefficient. BLM can 1-2 shot pets at most levels. RDM can sleep/nuke safely with protective buffs. Melees can pull the pets away and solo them with minimal room requirement. SCH on the other hand, has an extremely difficult and unsafe time trying to solo. While it can be somewhat successful at much higher levels, a BLM or RDM will get more XP than you and have a significantly easier and safer time of doing so. It doesn't get much better at 75 either. It has some advantages over BLM, but there's no situation I would want it over RDM for soloing.

With that said, I think the first reply was onto something. SCH/BST is probably the most creative application for a low-enmity helix. With the ability to cure itself and deal damage safely, it could be one of the most successful /BST jobs for soloing.

Edited, Feb 11th 2008 5:13am by Nateypoo
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#17Dartagnann, Posted: Feb 11 2008 at 6:17 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Boo Hoo.
#18 Feb 18 2008 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
40 posts
there was an inteview with SE in which it states that sch was never meant to solo
actually they said something to the effect of "sadly... sch is not designed to solo at all as compared to blm"
i was gonna post the link but the page is acting weird
well her eit is anyway if it works for you
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?LOADFEATURE=1766&BHCP=1%2C1&bhcp=1
#19 Feb 19 2008 at 4:58 AM Rating: Default
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PixelPink wrote:
there was an inteview with SE in which it states that sch was never meant to solo
actually they said something to the effect of "sadly... sch is not designed to solo at all as compared to blm"


Here is the quote:

The Article wrote:
To be completely honest, the scholar is not intended as a solo job. However, as a scholar reaches the higher levels, they become more capable of defeating enemies with offensive spells in much the same way as a black mage or red mage.


And honestly, I interpret that differently. It sounds to me that SCH was never designed to solo much the way that RDM and BLM were never designed to solo. RDM only became a solo powerhouse against high level NMs following Avesta's videos, and BLM only became a solo class once they were pushed out of parties as a consequence of the anti-Skill Chain mentality.

SCH is not designed to be a solo class, but the members of the Dev. Team that speak on this interview don't discount its ability to solo like a BLM or a RDM.

If you really think about it, the only job classes designed to solo were BST and PUP, for the reason that they were specifically introduced with that in mind. All jobs -can- solo, but almost none were designed for that purpose.
____________________________
Before you ask a stupid crafting question, read this.
milich wrote:
Quote:
Everytime Arcturus sees this, he starts to die inside.......I know it D:
actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

MNK ~ SMN ~ SCH
#20 Feb 19 2008 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If you really think about it, the only job classes designed to solo were BST and PUP, for the reason that they were specifically introduced with that in mind. All jobs -can- solo, but almost none were designed for that purpose.


Best post i've seen in awhile.

Thats the key thing. Who the **** wants to solo stuff? This game is a party game. So sch cant solo? And? Solo'ing in this game is high risk and most of the time small rewards other than bragging rights. When you could have less risk with a more people.

BST and pup were the only solo classes. But the real disconnect is that although se is like " Try new groups..." and "small parties" people are too set in a 6 or 1 ideal. I remember around 20ish me and a blm and a whm trio'd worms for some nice exp.

But when did we ever do what SE intended for us to do.


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#21 Feb 19 2008 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Been soloing pets and its not as bad as you would think. I have been doing the /nin thing. Dont ask, it works well for me though.
#22 Feb 19 2008 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
In other news, Kaeko of Odin server solo'd SCH from 1-75 in around two months.


Down after the first few posts..lol proves the thread header wrong. That and you know..as long as there is a worm your lv range? You're good to go.
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#23 Feb 19 2008 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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aaawe ok i got my quote a bit wrong lol since i couldnt relook at the website i couldnt remember exactly what it said
#24 Feb 20 2008 at 1:10 PM Rating: Default
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im gonna be the first sch running around melee-ing stuff. just watch. why? b/c im bored..and i can.

but whm/nin does alright. y wouldnt sch/nin?

sch can wear:
perdu club(about the only good DD club for sch)
genbu sheild
umbra cape
any melee orientated reward u get for missions (rajas, ethereal earring, ToAU ring, brutal, etc...)
chiv chain
#25 Feb 20 2008 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Acturus wrote:
If you really think about it, the only job classes designed to solo were BST and PUP


News to me.

XIglooX wrote:
any melee orientated reward u get for missions (rajas, ethereal earring, ToAU ring, brutal, etc...)
chiv chain


Yes, SCH can in fact wear "All jobs" gear.

Edited, Feb 20th 2008 3:25pm by bsphil
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#26 Feb 21 2008 at 5:06 AM Rating: Good
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bsphill wrote:
Acturus wrote:

If you really think about it, the only job classes designed to solo were BST and PUP



News to me.


http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3159493

Koichi Ogawa wrote:
When we decided to make the three new jobs, we already had the original 15 jobs and those were pretty specific in what they do. So the three new jobs basically ended up being these things that were balanced out, rather than focusing on one thing like the other 15 had. Basically all of the things you could focus on were pretty much taken up, and so the three became jack-of-all-trades kind of jobs. But, for example, the Puppetmaster -- the reason it doesn't get invited to parties very often just because we wanted to create another job that could play solo. Only the Beastmaster could play solo for a long period of time, and we wanted to make another job that could play solo, and that's why we made the PUP the way it is -- so it could excel at playing solo.
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Before you ask a stupid crafting question, read this.
milich wrote:
Quote:
Everytime Arcturus sees this, he starts to die inside.......I know it D:
actually, i think every time Acturus is called Arcturus he dies inside.


Now THIS is PvP!

MNK ~ SMN ~ SCH
#27 Feb 24 2008 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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XIglooX wrote:


but whm/nin does alright. y wouldnt sch/nin?



Because whm club cap is 26 points higher than sch, they get hexastrike and they can haste themselves.

Edited, Feb 25th 2008 1:21am by graspee
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#28 Feb 24 2008 at 11:36 PM Rating: Decent
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graspee wrote:
XIglooX wrote:


but whm/nin does alright. y wouldnt sch/nin?



Because whm club cap is 26 points higher than sch, they get hexastrike and they can haste themselves.


Yeah, our club skill is ******.
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