SCH getting Stoneskin: Why? No, seriously. The reason why SCH doesn't get Stoneskin is due to Sublimation. SE didn't want to negate the drawback of the JA right off the bat. SCH has to /WHM or /RDM in order to gain Stoneskin, which means if they ever wanted to go /BLM, they can't have the best of both worlds.
AoE DMG reduction for SCH the same as SMN. Lifting their need to sub RDM or WHM for it.
SCH getting Phalanx: Why?
AoE DMG reduction to extend to the party. It's an enhancement that serves little role other than minor DMG reduction.
SCH getting Barspells: Why?
AoE DMG reduction to extend to the party. It's an enhancement that serves as major elemental DMG reduction. SCH is an enhancement job, granted RDM is self enhancement. It's not a major factor of its survivability yet I can imagine the bundle of Barspells granting instant half DMG/resists to almost every attack in the game is one reason SE feels RDM is too powerful. It's not about whether it's actually true, it is situational, but if we expect to get more offensive traits, spells, abilities. I think we need to consider losing some magic defense spells, we practically have every WHM one. They gave all of this to RDM before SCH was even considered. Mirror could be a healthy alternative to that would serve as phalanx, and Elemental Barspells, with a twist. It could step on WHM toes for healing, so may need to just convert the DMG to tp/mp.
Enspells + Temper + DD Gear = Your damage not being complete sh*t. Yes, you gear to DD if you're meleeing. Why? Because the best support you can bring is a deader mob.
Valedictorian of RDM school.
No, DNC is not a DD job. Nor is RDM. But they're both not dedicated healers, nor are they dedicated nukers. They're hybrids. They serve to fit multiple roles to increase party efficiency.
I'm going to request that you remember these words. RDM cannot temporarily tank, even though in reality give it a couple JA's and a potent enough set of spells could allow them this ability even on more formidable foes, without shadows. And I'm pretty sure I'm right on what's required for RDM to increase its versatility. It's a matter now of timers, mp cost, enmity gain, exact DMG reduction amount.
Because apparently nuking for half-assed damage is A-OK in everyone's book. Nevermind ridding of Tier IV nukes drops our damage considerably. The difference between Tier III and Tier IV is night and day. It's not about being backline, it's about pushing your abilities as far as they can go. The only way this could work is if RDM got M.Acc Trait Boosts.
What a grand idea, so RDM gets magic accuracy boosts. Loses skill chain bonus traits I suggested. How many tiers? It could be a new trait for us considering it's hasn't been natively given to any job before. Seeing as we're direct enfeeblers with weak nukes, seems fair. I'm not even being sarcastic that's a really good idea.
Obviously, Feather's draw-in is the "Inhibits TP gain" aspect of it, but it's negated by the fact that RDM has to strike it for piddly damage (good luck convincing a linkshell, let alone a PUG, to melee in a Zerg scenario. Not even DNC has this privilege). Why even bother lowering our damage anyway? Sword is one of the weakest DD weapons in the game. If you really want to provide a setback for Feather in the melee department, disable the ability to crit.
SE is trying to do away with Zerg options, remember those SMN's screaming about perfect defense? And SCH with embrava. RDM already has something for zerging options it's called chainspell + stun. SE is scared sh*tless of it, it's a major reason why they are hesitant to give us anything at all. Which is making me scratch my head looking at mirror now. It's a perfect defense of its own stacked with chainspell, probably should make it cost more mp so that the rdm's can only spam it a few times in 1 minute. Adding a long casting time or recasting time doesn't matter because again...RDM..
Feather isn't for Zerg fights, it's not at all. It's about as much a contribution to a Zerg fight as elegy or Addle attached to a DoT. It's for battles where you actually have to fight something, not spam to win. And again, for feather, take a look. I mean lower DMG but doubled ATK speed is. It's literally the same DMG in one minute, the same tp in one minute. As if it were normal, only difference is extra enspike DMG maybe, inhibited tp, and appearance, a really fast sword user. Now the WS would be gimped, unless that also negated mob tp gain. Hence, why I compiled fencer I, II, And III. To soften the blow of this JA for RDM's who need high numbers during WS to sleep better at night. RDM should get it, RDM should get the highest fencer trait of all, but I'm trying to ease in. When I want to go full speed ahead.
You see, I like the idea. But the issue here is you're making nuking extremely more situational than it already is because it is a job trait. There are times when RDM (or DRK for that matter) does not want to pull hate. I like the concept of "I don't care if I can't outdamage a BLM, I'll just cast more than you" (which is why after some thought, I'm enjoying the thought of Triple Cast), but raising enmity by 100%(double) is not the right way to go about.
Now we're getting somewhere, your problem with it is the similar to feather. In that the double penalty is too steep a penalty. So if I made it so that it increases enmity gain, instead of doubles enmity gain. It has immediately become a good job trait. I also was thinking no tp gain for the mob from the 2nd and 3rd cast. Since apparently magic DMG instant gives a mob 10 tp, that would be very counter productive to what I'm trying to achieve here.
And again, why SCH? Give it to DRK and RDM (or make it RDM only), make it affect Elemental/Dark magic only, and separate it into tiers (CC I would be -20% MP Cost, CC II would be -30%, etc.)
I'd like to do that, if SE makes tranquil heart two traits, and increases enmity shed for casting healing magic, it would be nice and even. Though I still wouldn't make Chaotic Cruelty work for dark magic, it's mp and enmity is just fine.
And you want to cap the DA rate at level 60? It's impossible to hit 20% without 500 Enhancing skill. That's a considerable change.
Lower the required skill to cap it. So it can be used at a lower level, to give RDM a taste of meleeing at fast speed. Before Aura, to make it feel like a fencer.
I don't object to this, outside of Temper being capped at low levels and negating it to push it's cap further. However, I'm with Seriha on keeping Temper as a RDM exclusive. At the very least, it should be level 50. I understand there's Aura in your concept, but I'm more than convinced that SE would make the individual spells more powerful than the super spell.
But I want people to sub it. 40/80 looks better than 50/90. Things like that kill me inside. Could work, though Id prefer to keep it 40. Didn't SE make it so SCH couldn't accession haste, because it would gimp Garuda's Hastega? I figure it should be like that, any job that subs it can use it. Only job that would be able to reap it's full benefits being RDM, WHM, and SCH (with capped enhancing) by being able to melee with it. That sounds fair. No enhancing magic, enjoy your 5% DA. For paladin it would be able to achieve full effect, this of course if its enhancing cap requirement is lowered to cap 60 like i feel its suppose to. I could see a PLD,DRG,DRK, BLU, taking this with open arms. I know sometimes they like to use that sub, it'd be cool to give an additional perk. That wouldn't be broken at all. If you feel this is too much for PLD, hey they could gimp anyone who subs RDM anyway, they've done that for several job Abilties/ meditate is what comes to mind.
The reason why DNC and BLU got Dual Wield is not because "it makes sense", but because SE wanted to allow them to utilize other subjobs and not stay married to /NIN
But that's the thing, any job that melees with one handed weapons and wants to take little DMG is going to marry NIN. It doesn't mean every job should get dual wield, RDM should be fast attacking without the need of dual wield, I do think they should get the shield, just for keeping them out the bowl of those other DD's. DW for RDM should just be an option through sub. They gave it to DNC for all the other melees that liked dnc abilities but can't build tp fast enough to maintain it. So giving it natively to another job serves little purpose it's been well dispersed. Thf maybe should get 3 tiers of it starting at lvl 40,60,80. Maybe even ranger at 80. But I don't see it going to RDM definitely doesn't need it at all. Not remotely a rogue type job. So exactly how many tiers of fencer would out perform dual wield on RDM exactly?
[quote]RDM and BLU are the only jobs that can sub any job and gain some use of it, because both jobs are so self-sufficient on it's own that their losses aren't as heavy as other jobs when subbing something oddball. RDM in particular gains a -heavy- role shift depending on what subjob it uses. /BLU means you're supertanking, /WHM means you're support, /WAR means you're dealing damage, etc.[/quote]
A lot of melees like DRK, PLD, DRG, use /RDM to decrease casting time, refresh, convert, stoneskin, aquaviel, dia spam. More or less, enfeebles, mp return, fast cast. Now RDM cut in half should best give you an idea of what the other half of RDM should be. add in temper to the mix and DD might even show up to an event as /RDM. This of course if we're not talking about Zerging.
[quote]As for your explanation of Mirror. I wasn't sure Mirror would be affected by AoE moves, but since it does. I see it's uses now.[/quote]
Yeah, I added, when you said it was insufficient. I think it should cost more mp though. Like 120-150 mp. Its return is 250 mp. Seems reasonable. I know the rest of the party wouldn't complain.
[quote]I prefer if all the spells stayed, though I wouldn't cry a river if Aquaviel and Blink were gone. I see no reason to remove Diaga, it's a harmless spell that serves as our only AoE magic without SJ use. You would need something considerable to replace Barspells and Tier IV nukes(Especially if you want your Triple Cast idea to work), and stuff like CC and Mirror aren't enough.
Just using RDM current spell list chumps as leverage. The overall effect of triple cast could be additional nukes don't gain additional enmity, don't give the mob additional tp, and do the same DMG as the initial spell. Does that sound better?
Edited, Dec 9th 2012 9:25pm by Evokerofsorts