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What would you like to see for your job: Red Mage Edition!

#1 Dec 09 2012 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
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Evokerofsorts wrote:
Thanks for point something out, that /SCH is very proficient job for if you want to nuke. Giving enspells to Scholar would make room for the spells I felt would be better for the RDM. But I suppose if you can't part with your enspells, they can stay. Though i still think enhancements like stoneskin should go to SCH, it's better that way, it's way too much survivability in that job. Half you guys will sub /SCH or /WHM anyway.

Few questions: What in the world would SCH do with enspells? Accession them? That's obvious, but take Accession out of the picture. Now what? I suppose you're advocating them going into melee mode or something, but that's even more laughable than DRK putting on mage gear and nuking.

SCH getting Stoneskin: Why? No, seriously. The reason why SCH doesn't get Stoneskin is due to Sublimation. SE didn't want to negate the drawback of the JA right off the bat. SCH has to /WHM or /RDM in order to gain Stoneskin, which means if they ever wanted to go /BLM, they can't have the best of both worlds.

SCH getting Phalanx: Why?

SCH getting Barspells: Why?

To the bolded: Most of my days on RDM, I go /NIN or /BLU. /WHM is in EXP parties/alliances and /BLM is when I'm on Sleepga duty (because for some reason my server still does that in Dynamis). /SCH is used when I need to nuke. If I had BLM leveled, I would be going BLM instead. My WHM is currently 95, so I go WHM whenever I need to heal.

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Yeah, that's why they should get shield upped to C-. Redmage is also the toughest job to maximize DMG, it's situational.

Or a spell like Aura + Feather + an enspell. Enspells that apparently we're keeping now because it's closing gaps and setting new precedent. No, rouge jobs like thf, dnc, and nin should get DW. I even scratched my head at BLU getting it. And it's seems like youre peddling back to we need to deal DMG, when it's clear knowledge were not a DD class.

I need to rephrase on Enspells apparently.

Enspells + Temper + DD Gear = Your damage not being complete sh*t. Yes, you gear to DD if you're meleeing. Why? Because the best support you can bring is a deader mob. DNC figured this out when they learned that overloading on ACC and storing 300 TP to play support was not the right way to play DNC. Now they're doing their best to dish out as much damage as possible while using their JAs to support when needed. Guess you better head over to the DNC forums and tell them stop using their weaponskills.

No, DNC is not a DD job. Nor is RDM. But they're both not dedicated healers, nor are they dedicated nukers. They're hybrids. They serve to fit multiple roles to increase party efficiency.

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Unless of course they are not subbing SCH and using a sword. Stop trying to play me with this back lines noise.


Because apparently nuking for half-assed damage is A-OK in everyone's book. Nevermind ridding of Tier IV nukes drops our damage considerably. The difference between Tier III and Tier IV is night and day. It's not about being backline, it's about pushing your abilities as far as they can go. The only way this could work is if RDM got M.Acc Trait Boosts.

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"X hits target for 110" *Feather* "X hits target for 55" I imagine that'll look nice if he's doing that at double attack speed with enspell DMG.I meant literally half DMG, not half ATK, my wording was off, figured youd still see the vision. Wasted optimism.


Obviously, Feather's draw-in is the "Inhibits TP gain" aspect of it, but it's negated by the fact that RDM has to strike it for piddly damage (good luck convincing a linkshell, let alone a PUG, to melee in a Zerg scenario. Not even DNC has this privilege). Why even bother lowering our damage anyway? Sword is one of the weakest DD weapons in the game. If you really want to provide a setback for Feather in the melee department, disable the ability to crit.

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No, no no. There are already so many abilities in this game, there should be concrete traits that are automatically in place to alter game play, that. Clearly define the jobs role when it does someone that another job does. Like nuking, curing, casting etc. if your gonna make it an abilty might as well give to SCH and make it a lame stratagem. This is to make RDM nuke more for less mp, but still get am equal amount of enmity that it would if it still had tier IV Nukes. The way so they can nuke more without additional enmity comes from triple cast. Think of it as purposely giving RDM a weak submachine gun instead of the standard revolver.

Please Altana no more job abilities.


You see, I like the idea. But the issue here is you're making nuking extremely more situational than it already is because it is a job trait. There are times when RDM (or DRK for that matter) does not want to pull hate. I like the concept of "I don't care if I can't outdamage a BLM, I'll just cast more than you" (which is why after some thought, I'm enjoying the thought of Triple Cast), but raising enmity by 100%(double) is not the right way to go about.

And again, why SCH? Give it to DRK and RDM (or make it RDM only), make it affect Elemental/Dark magic only, and separate it into tiers (CC I would be -20% MP Cost, CC II would be -30%, etc.)

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And you want to cap the DA rate at level 60? It's impossible to hit 20% without 500 Enhancing skill. That's a considerable change.


Lower the required skill to cap it. So it can be used at a lower level, to give RDM a taste of meleeing at fast speed. Before Aura, to make it feel like a fencer.


I don't object to this, outside of Temper being capped at low levels and negating it to push it's cap further. However, I'm with Seriha on keeping Temper as a RDM exclusive. At the very least, it should be level 50. I understand there's Aura in your concept, but I'm more than convinced that SE would make the individual spells more powerful than the super spell.

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Utsusemi, is /NIN. Stoneskin and phalanx I'm convinced should go. I'm not saying their bad, stoneskin is the amazing. I'm just saying when I was coming up with these amazing job traits, spells, abilities I just felt it would never happen, and only way it could happen is if RDM lost a bunch of things that SE deems too powerful. Stoneskin fell into that category, given that most likely people who want SS, sub whm and SCH anyway, just give to SCH and call it an enhancing job. And I already said this is an alternative to convert, incase your front lines mid fight and want to make use of a frontline version at half the timer. Except unlike convert the HP/MP goes off how you are hit instead just swapping your MP/HP. RDM/NIN + enfeebles + stoneskin is cool. This move is more for taking big tp moves from mobs with open arms, suddenly RDM now can absorb 1000 needles, astral flows, bombs, self destruct. I know most people would rather just be able to reduce DMG, or shadow tank, but for RDM it could use some originality.

Adding alternatives to convert instead running out of battle range. I want to imagine we without subjobs when discussing RDM balance, because if I mention updating meleeing you bring up /NIN, And if I'm casting you bring up /SCH. I'm taking the job as a stand alone, what can go and what can stay about the job. I'm trying to make RDM really fast, without taking its core idea in mind.


The problem with that mentality is subjobs are part of the game once you hit level 18. -A lot- of job balance comes from subjob use. It makes jobs go from "zero to hero". Could you imagine BLM being BLM without a support job? SE would have to give a large update to not have dead bodies everywhere. The reason why DNC and BLU got Dual Wield is not because "it makes sense", but because SE wanted to allow them to utilize other subjobs and not stay married to /NIN.

RDM and BLU are the only jobs that can sub any job and gain some use of it, because both jobs are so self-sufficient on it's own that their losses aren't as heavy as other jobs when subbing something oddball. RDM in particular gains a -heavy- role shift depending on what subjob it uses. /BLU means you're supertanking, /WHM means you're support, /WAR means you're dealing damage, etc.

As for your explanation of Mirror. I wasn't sure Mirror would be affected by AoE moves, but since it does. I see it's uses now.

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Well I'm glad I was able to get your full support on two of my ideas, I'm still certain feather needs more convincing, simply because I sold it improperly. Understand I don't think well get those jobs abilities/spells/traits unless we get rid of some spells RDM has that it doesn't use, or need. Stoneskin can be used on other Jobs. Rdm doesnt need it. Pitching alternatives are closer to getting SE's attention. I honestly Feel the reason we got that terrible 2 hour is that the community is begging for more enfeebles, and for redmage to be party inclusive without making it play it's intended role, because it's "too situational". Mobs are too strong, and rdm should be back lines where its "safe". You are making me think, mirror should be a spell.

So, am I assuming that Barspells , aquaviel, blink, Diaga, Tier IV's nukes removal are fine? We still have much more to bargain for.


Bolded: I hate being in the backline as RDM. I'd rather be WHM, BLM, or SCH. All three are better at the job anyway.

I prefer if all the spells stayed, though I wouldn't cry a river if Aquaviel and Blink were gone. I see no reason to remove Diaga, it's a harmless spell that serves as our only AoE magic without SJ use. You would need something considerable to replace Barspells and Tier IV nukes(Especially if you want your Triple Cast idea to work), and stuff like CC and Mirror aren't enough.

Edited, Dec 9th 2012 11:17am by HeroMystic

Edited, Dec 9th 2012 11:19am by HeroMystic
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