Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

What would you like to see for your job: Red Mage Edition!Follow

#52 Dec 12 2012 at 3:30 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
38 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
And also, Whoah rdmcandle, I don't give two flying firagas about enfeebling skill or it's potency, I don't care about refresh II, or haste Ii, I never said I wanted to do anything to it. I said that temper should be allowed to be used with subs, but capping at 10% potency(half potency) for /RDM. There's WHM, BLM, SCH, and DRK that all use enfeebles, are you thinking about how it will effect their enfeeble accuracy? I mean again, I don't care about this, all the ideas I proposed are not effected by this at all.


Of you course you don't care about enfeebling or refresh or haste. But just because you don't care does not mean the base mechanics are bad. You asked what I meant by placebo, I told you what it is, Refresh II is a placebo, haste II will be a placebo. Why should temper be allowed to be used as a sub job? So BRD and COR can apply it as well under their MP fountain with no native enhancing skill or MP for that matter.


Yeah but I'm not advocating refresh II, or haste II, you are directing it at me like it's an idea I support. It's not, at all. Temper would be gimped, and available to anyone who subs /RDM. Why should it be any different for BRD and COR, remember like phalanx, temper is self cast. I am sensing some deep seated hatred for other support jobs. I don't how to break this to you but...support jobs do everything a RDM does because RDM is a support job. Debuffing and Buffing be the name of the game. It's a good thing /RDM works so well, what this job really needs are exclusives that bring it front line and allow it to melee to drop plenty of enspell DMG. It needs buffs and debuffs neither job have, and If they do get it, don't apply the same way.

rdmcandie wrote:
/RDM won't be gimped. Adjusting mechanics post level 75 do not alter mechanics below level 75. Meaning the mechanics of /RDM will remain intact, the only change being that RDM mains ability to perform those same tasks is a lot further advanced. However even if /RDM was nerfed, this in no way nerfs the benefits that BRD and COR both provide, the issue with BRD and COR is that they are RDM mains competition, and through utilizing /RDM they completely remove RDM from the equation.


Oh ok, I understand.

rdmcandie wrote:
So ya I am not following your position on BRD and COR being weaker in an offensive role. (assuming you are excluding nuking which I hope you are because that seems to be a one sided observation)


I'm saying RDM should be stronger magically than BRD and COR, being that their buffs are AoE and RDM's are all single target. COR has quick draw, RDM should get feather so it can rock out with increased enspell DMG output, and inflict an enfeeble neither job has. Defensively mirror would increase RDM refresh abilty along with giving a defense increase for party members something bard can mimic with with Minne and Scherzo but at the cost of what.


rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
But I have no idea what to do, you bring up a legitimate problem to the world of RDM. I say...@#%^ the enhancing idea, make the RDM exclusive magic cost double mp subbed. That'll put a major bump in the road for them. Same for haste. Next case


No I bring up one of the three major issues concerning RDM, it is the major issue, it is the one that keeps us from groups. As long as a job such as BRD or COR, or even SCH, or one of your extra BLM's brings /RDM everything RDM main provides to a group is now accessible at an even level. This is the single largest drawback to RDM. Until /RDM is not providing the same utility (on effectively any job to be quite honest) as RDM main, you are just adding sh*t on to sh*t for the sake of it. AKA a placebo.


I'm going to assume this is once again about the old enfeebles, haste II, and refresh II. Things I have no interest in, and am not flipping talking about.

rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
Except somehow sword was severely left behind, I'm just trying to balance the job properly, I know it needs a major defensive boost to withstand close range fighting for end game.


Sword skill is fine, as is dagger skill, our sword options are great, our dagger options not so much. I don't get where severely behind comes from to be honest with you. As for being more defensive RDM is not designed to stand in melee range for extended period of time, it never was and it never should be. (exception RDM/NIN tanking but that should be obvious). RDM is designed to buff the party, debuff the opponent, and then. If applicable enter melee range and attack the mob, or stand back and nuke the mob. In some cases you can get away with meleeing for a period of time and then retreating during TP moves to nuke a couple times, and repeat.


It comes from giving RDM all kinds of Magical enfeebles, nukes, curing plenty reasons to be back lines and not until recently taking the time to apply enfeebles that can be applied with the sword. The enspells before introducing temper were widely insufficient. And refresh + convert completely minimizes a need to be back lines at all, RDM takes a picture with sword and shield in hand for job description, don't tell me it's not meant to be in melee range. So your wanting to be back lines is wholly your decision, if you're gonna do that, come BLM/RDM for some good ol enfeeble back lines action that you so comfortably enjoy.

rdmcandie wrote:
This is why RDM melee is often frowned upon. You are not a DD, you do not have the staying power nor the damage output to warrant constant melee range attacks. You are also not a nuker, you have the ability to nuke but they are relatively under powered and inaccurate. RDM Damage is supplemental, and it is non uniform, in some fights melee damage is more useful to a group, in other elemental. These situations are what define good RDM's from bad.


Not trying to make RDM a DD, not at all. Just giving it a unique flavor, allowing it to be frontlines, through new spells, job traits, and abilities. You're the one who said RDM needs magic accuracy bonus, I agree they should give RDM several tiers of that kind of job trait. And yeah, feather also changes RDM offensive so if it needs to deal more elemental DMG than melee DMG you can cast feather + enspell which is double ATK rounds so more enspell DMG at the cost of melee DMG output. While inhibiting tp, can't get anymore versatile than that.

rdmcandie wrote:
As for your triple cast idea, it is bad and you should feel bad.


Oh no buddy, this job trait is poorly devised but still a really cool trait for RDM to have under its belt. Even if tier IV nukes stay could increase magical input by giving it 1/3rd chance of activation. I'm 30 forum comments in, and setting new precedent. I'll give you it doesn't work now, but only because it requires mathematical computation I myself simply have no patience for.


Edited, Dec 12th 2012 4:37am by Evokerofsorts

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 4:38am by Evokerofsorts
#53 Dec 12 2012 at 10:18 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
Quote:
You still haven't tackled the underlying issue with your skill fetish, though. Just how much would RDM's enfeebling skill make a difference? Because Arts and all the gear those other jobs bring to the table isn't leaving them flapping in the wind, either. 1% per point? 1% per 5 points? 5% per 10 points? C'mon, marvel us with this genius scheme, because SE will surely take it. Or, RDM gets Slow III at 55-60%, no fancy mechanic tinkering done, everyone else is stuck at 29% Slow I. End result, RDM still the superior slower by a significant margin. Now let's just let it land on mobs and affect the TP-move-as-attacks ones. Not exactly as sh*t pile or broken as you wanna exaggerate there. Certainly easier for the poor intern they have locked in their basement to do, too.


Actually its not that hard to come up with a base point to start from. You take the current effect at max value, divide it into the level 75 skill and get your growth value. For example with Slow 1.

276/29 = 10 points per % (9.5 really but SE prefers to play with whole numbers in calculations)

You then apply the benefit to level 75+ So you now have: (lets assume 424 skill)

Skill-276/10+29 =
424-276/10+29 = 43.8%

Which is roughly a 50% increase to strength. As for everyone else being stuck at 29% that again isn't true WHM SCH and BLM are all capable enfeeblers and all attain skill past level 75 all would benefit from an increase to enfeebling potency. RDM however would gain the largest native benefit. At the end of the day with gear and skill set included RDM will be on top, followed by SCH, followed by WHM/BLM/DRK.

As for Enfeebles utility, SE has already announced they plan on adjusting the mechanics on how they effect the mobs. Paralyze is currently being tested (according to the new big wig) as being able to interrupt TP moves, as it does Normal moves.

If you want to fix the job you have to fix the mechanics, adding sh*t on to the top does not do that. Making new placebo's does not do that. Enhancing is worse for it namely due to the lack of needing the skill of MACC, but Enfeebling is in the same boat, @75 WHM BLM were not landing enfeebles @ capped potency, @99 they are T2's do not grow enough to compete with this, and havign the other half of RDM group utility available to sub job use is killing the job.

RDM needs to be mechanically the best at something, considering its skill superiority in Enhancing and Enfeebling, these avenues should be the ones pursued.

But by all means argue for new spells and abilities that are ultimately nonessential to group play. Watch as the invite rate soars when you get 20% haste II, while BRD's are still capping Magic Haste /RDM (or /WHM). Add a new line of enfeebles, make them crazy potent, and watch as no one cares because enfeebles don't actually do anything in their present form. Then watch as the NIN crowd consumes itself in anger when they can no longer land any of their spells and require that SE add more tiers for them.

Or you could just adjust the mechanics that effect all jobs with native skill positively to provide separation at the top end of the very jobs that compete with one another, and to eliminate the subjob canundrum SE created when they moved the cap to 99.

Quote:
Meanwhile, this whole, "I came up with the Healing Magic adjustment!" line is getting old. Had I the motivation, I'm pretty sure I could dig up posts circa early-ToAU with angry WHMs wanting their skill to affect cures so they'd better fit into merit parties. But hey, maybe my memory is fuzzy after 6 years. You totally thought of something nobody nowhere else ever thought of AND it got translated to Japanese. Genius.


Awww dont be jealous I am sure one of the dozens of gimmicks you have come up with over the years will get noticed too. Me though, I got in when the getting was good. All those old ToAU grumbles were lost in places like this, I posted on the new (at the time) official forums. You could be right, but they copy and pasted my idea, however instead of a 50% increase, they gave it about a 40% increase. Id imagine something similar done here, since it is the same formula.




(as for your Whoa whoa whoa sh*t. I said people like you: not you specifically. Granted I also said asked for Cure 5 or a Cure 5 equivalent, which you did and ill happily dig through the trenches and find your little post about some cure spell that was like a hybrid regen/cure.)





Edited, Dec 12th 2012 11:28am by rdmcandie
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#54 Dec 12 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Good
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
EVO wrote:
Except somehow sword was severely left behind


It's exactly what a level B should be at. People only believe that sword was left behind because they want to see uber DD numbers.

EVO wrote:
I'm just trying to balance the job properly


We all agree to this statement, you're just going about it in a different way.

EVO wrote:
RDM doesn't necessarily need it's high DMG nukes, it needs fast casting nukes.


RDM does not have high DMG nukes in reference to tier V and BLM only spells. This is no different than back in the day when RDM had tier III and BLM had tier IV. Also, RDM already has quick casting time, it's called fast cast and it's 24/7.

EVO wrote:
but then my triple cast would be too powerful


Not if you make it a timed ability. Let fast cast and /SCH do the rest.
#55 Dec 14 2012 at 7:43 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
38 posts
Well, I don't need to see high numbers. I just would like for the party to be able to tell whose doing what. Anybody can cast an enfeeble, cure, or nuke, certain jobs have amazing spells that are job specific and truly stand out. I think if you bring a RDM to a fight, it should have something covered that everyonen is happy to have them over. This sounds so vague, if enspells are really rdms best spells, they should get abilities that increase it's prowess, make me stand out from a war, or PLD with a sword, I know B is pretty good skill but so what, this job doesn't get any real reason to use it unless its soloing.

Throw rdm a freaking bone. I gotta thank you guys for cutting into feather, because it went from a simple concept to something legit,ate, and worth having for RDM, anybody wanna help me scream this spell at the development team? I heard the new head of ffxi, actually reads these forums now.
#56 Dec 14 2012 at 8:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
RDM is in desperate need to overhauls to spells, abilities, traits, food, and equipment, but I've recently come the conclusion that RDM's biggest enemy right now is game play: there simply aren't enough events that cater to the job's potential. Everything we'd want to participate in requires the class to play like a pale imitation of some other class.
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#57 Dec 14 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
Evokerofsorts wrote:
Well, I don't need to see high numbers. I just would like for the party to be able to tell whose doing what. Anybody can cast an enfeeble, cure, or nuke, certain jobs have amazing spells that are job specific and truly stand out. I think if you bring a RDM to a fight, it should have something covered that everyonen is happy to have them over. This sounds so vague, if enspells are really rdms best spells, they should get abilities that increase it's prowess, make me stand out from a war, or PLD with a sword, I know B is pretty good skill but so what, this job doesn't get any real reason to use it unless its soloing.

Throw rdm a freaking bone. I gotta thank you guys for cutting into feather, because it went from a simple concept to something legit,ate, and worth having for RDM, anybody wanna help me scream this spell at the development team? I heard the new head of ffxi, actually reads these forums now.


Don't get me wrong, we all agree with your concept. People just disagree with the "best" way of accomplishing it. That will never change.
#58 Jan 07 2013 at 5:15 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
38 posts
Does enspell effect enfeeble accuracy? I know they weaken a mob to an opposite element does it work with that, I know it's no point if someone is doing a table of enfeebles, but I am curious to know, anybody considered some kind of bonus to enfeeble when hitting target with enspell?
#59 Jan 07 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
T1s do nothing regarding any kind of other-magic MACC. T2s slightly low the resistance of an element related to the enfeeble in the strength/weakness chart, but to no meaningful degree and a currently insipid manner. Ex: Wanna make an ice mob more vulnerable to fire? Hit it with Enblizzard! Derp, enjoy the Enblizzards hitting for 0-3 while your mages don't noticed a difference and you just feed TP...

Otherwise, tying some kind of elemental boon to your active enspell isn't a foreign idea. Some think it should work whether you melee or not. I believe such a trait should only function if you're wielding a sword or dagger to rival the functionality and casting superiority of staves. Without such a caveat, the job's martial side just plunges further into the pooper. I know I've also bounced the idea of matching element boosting an inflicted enfeeble akin to DNC steps. Make it a progressively harder chance like TH, but whacking a mob with Enstone and Slow should slowly creep its slow percentage up if it lives long enough for you to care about such. Or you could up the tic damage of a SCH's active Helix or whatever.

Main problem with RDM is while there are some simple fixes it needs, it needs some complex work to make it appealing, too. It's just hard to see that happening with SE favoring other jobs for given roles, a history of ideas we've proposed being added elsewhere, and a dash of people who delight and support in RDM's misery due to the past. Maybe one day Matsui will actually look at the job, but I fear they trust the census a bit too much regarding whether or not it needs help.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#60 Jan 12 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
So what's everyone's opinion on the new proposed changes for elemental spells?
#61 Jan 12 2013 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,649 posts
Welcomed changes, will definitely make RDM nuking better. However it's a better buff for BLM and SCH.

We'll have to see how well Fast Cast and dINT will be implemented.
____________________________

#62 Jan 13 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
Ditto. Sounds nice, but then it'll be nice for everybody, which basically leaves RDM in the same place.
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#63 Jan 13 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Default
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
True, but you know the routine, we have to find the "bright side" on updates. In this case, since it helps everyone, maybe we can be seen as a better alternative for nuking.

He mentioned enfeebling, but he didn't state any details. I'm curious on how they will attack that.
#64 Jan 13 2013 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
It's one of those things I'd have to get my hands on to fairly judge, but if I were to raise an immediate concern, it'd be further marrying RDM to /SCH for the simple sake of Elemental skill via Dark Arts. Then maybe a dash of TP feed concern if we maintain the 10% TP a nuke paradigm.

I dunno, if SE wants nuking to be better for us, I'd like to see a bump to B or B+ skill and maybe native Occult Accumen with my ever-hopeful desire to see a trait that grants enspell element Affinity+ when main-handing a sword or dagger. That way we could at least build TP from afar and later open some SCs once harder content isn't so much about zergs.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#65 Jan 14 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
One enfeebling change has already been announced, or at least the idea has been pitched by Matsui to the Devs (or maybe vice versa), and that is to allow Paralyze to have an effect on TP moves. But they still do not have any ideas for slow (come on TP gain reduction).

As for this adjustment, when looking just at RDM it is a nice buff, 6 second cast times and 30 second recasts are going to be nice with our fast cast and haste, its going to let RDM put out a lot of spells pretty quickly and the damage modifiers mean we aren't really just married to 1 maybe 2 spells. However when you compare to BLM and SCH it doesn't really close the gap much. The only ground really made up is a small % improvement in the T4>T5 damage gap (based on cast times/recasts and base damage). But SCH and BLM will still be slinging better nukes.


Sadly it isn't going to help RDM get into groups, but it will help us in solo/lowman stuff, simply by killing a bit quicker.




Edited, Jan 14th 2013 11:04am by rdmcandie
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#66 Jan 14 2013 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Checked the OF for giggles and saw the Enspell thread. Oh dear. -.-

So many thoughts, but I guess ideas would rather get lost to **** waving.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#67 Jan 15 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,649 posts
Seriha wrote:
Checked the OF for giggles and saw the Enspell thread. Oh dear. -.-

So many thoughts, but I guess ideas would rather get lost to **** waving.


The Enspell thread was a rant thread to begin with, so I never took it seriously. To be honest, it's hard to keep a serious outlook on the OF in any circumstance.

We actually don't have the worst enspells. While PLD has the best one in of itself, they don't have the ability to enhance it with +Enspell dmg gear via Hollow Earring and Chimeric Fluret. They're also stuck with sword 'n board while RDM can go /NIN for dual wield.

Our Enspell IIs are crap no matter how you slice it, but I prefer to forget they ever existed instead of hopelessly trying to fix them.
____________________________

#68 Jan 15 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
Seriha wrote:
Checked the OF for giggles and saw the Enspell thread. Oh dear. -.-

So many thoughts, but I guess ideas would rather get lost to **** waving.


That was a fun thread!

There were some good ideas, but sadly most people seem to still think damage is our way out. Damage means **** really for RDM, unless we swing Blizzard 4s on the end of our swords. Some type of utility is what we need, we need to be wanted because we offer something beneficial, not just because we are another of a dozen DD options.

I like the +Affinity you mentioned above, but I would rather see Elemental Debuffs on the enspells myself, debuffing a mob so 10 people benefit is always going to be better than just RDM doing a bit better. We are a support class, without the ability to really support...it makes me a sad panda.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#69 Jan 15 2013 at 6:58 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
When I was reading that thread and the logic came up that basically every other tier up of a spell was an improvement, while T2s basically bucked that norm, I thought to myself, "You know, T2s feel more like they should be called Defrost, Derasp, etc.." in the vein that if enfeebling was their intent, they could maintain their meager damage option with the -MEVA (removing the quirky cross-element relationship) on top of maybe the -stats.

But even in more in general regarding Enspells, I know myself and others have bounced the idea in the past the specific element bestows a specific bonus not unlike the +Affinity, just more specialized. Enaero would be +Subtle Blow, Enfire +ATK, Enstone +DEF, Enblizzard +MATK, Enwater +MDEF, Enthunder +Crit. Specific values probably couldn't just pull off the direct enspell damage offered, but your skill would at least be some kind of reference point. Each should at least emphasize a particular "role" you'd choose with your engagement at the time, where my thought on the Enaero aspect should be that our TP feed should be very minimal.

Overall, I'm trying to look past the game we know now with what's been hinted of the future. If zergs go the way of the dodo (for the majority of fights) while enemy TP moves and their use become more sensible, the endgame environment can look a lot different. And while some RDMs may look to play more of a nuker with the proposed elemental magic tweaks, I still don't want to see melee shoved aside entirely and will always continue to brainstorm on methods to help stop the whole, "Not in my party!" mentality that's plagued the job since forever.

But even in a broader scope, I'd certainly like to see Enspells/Sambas/Weapon effects play nice with each other. The fact they don't hurts /DNC as a sub for us, and for those who have Excalibur, it's effect becomes a juggling debate between it and enspells.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 8:01pm by Seriha
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#70 Jan 16 2013 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,649 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Checked the OF for giggles and saw the Enspell thread. Oh dear. -.-

So many thoughts, but I guess ideas would rather get lost to **** waving.


That was a fun thread!

There were some good ideas, but sadly most people seem to still think damage is our way out. Damage means sh*t really for RDM, unless we swing Blizzard 4s on the end of our swords. Some type of utility is what we need, we need to be wanted because we offer something beneficial, not just because we are another of a dozen DD options.

I like the +Affinity you mentioned above, but I would rather see Elemental Debuffs on the enspells myself, debuffing a mob so 10 people benefit is always going to be better than just RDM doing a bit better. We are a support class, without the ability to really support...it makes me a sad panda.


That's the issue however. Have we ever been a support job, or was that what we were regulated to? The only spell that I could truly call a support spell was Dia III. Refresh and Haste were really the only spells that deemed us as a support job back in the day. Nowadays, we don't really have anything that drives us into a solid role.

And I believe this particular middle-ground we are at right now is very important. It's a point where many RDMs particularly on this forum has been wanting to achieve, striking a fair balance between Melee and Magic. Personally, I want to keep this balance, even if it doesn't lead us into a solid role. I don't want to be like SCH where the only thing that matters is how good your Embrava is.
____________________________

#71 Jan 16 2013 at 8:39 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,547 posts
HeroMystic wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Checked the OF for giggles and saw the Enspell thread. Oh dear. -.-

So many thoughts, but I guess ideas would rather get lost to **** waving.


That was a fun thread!

There were some good ideas, but sadly most people seem to still think damage is our way out. Damage means sh*t really for RDM, unless we swing Blizzard 4s on the end of our swords. Some type of utility is what we need, we need to be wanted because we offer something beneficial, not just because we are another of a dozen DD options.

I like the +Affinity you mentioned above, but I would rather see Elemental Debuffs on the enspells myself, debuffing a mob so 10 people benefit is always going to be better than just RDM doing a bit better. We are a support class, without the ability to really support...it makes me a sad panda.


That's the issue however. Have we ever been a support job, or was that what we were regulated to? The only spell that I could truly call a support spell was Dia III. Refresh and Haste were really the only spells that deemed us as a support job back in the day. Nowadays, we don't really have anything that drives us into a solid role.

And I believe this particular middle-ground we are at right now is very important. It's a point where many RDMs particularly on this forum has been wanting to achieve, striking a fair balance between Melee and Magic. Personally, I want to keep this balance, even if it doesn't lead us into a solid role. I don't want to be like SCH where the only thing that matters is how good your Embrava is.



I think yes we have been a support job, perhaps not in the technical sense of active support, but we have been a support player at least ever since I played. RDM has alwaqys been that job that can fit in to just about any role. While RDM may not actively support in the sense of say a BRD or a COR, we provide support in a different way.

Or at least we did before Convert went to subjob, and SE embraced the Zerg mentality and went with it.

If you look at a lot of the relevant support buffs, RDM could provide those similarly, from Evasion+ to ACC+, unfortunately things like Gravity 2 (-40EVA or up to a 20% increase to Hit Rate) and Blind are coin flips in whether they are immune or not. Of course thats not even getting into the *********** of G2 Merits and the inability to really take Blind II at all as a spell.

Abyssea kind of gutted RDM as a support role though, its inabilities stack up faster than its abilities, and it has had a great impact on the job, ie. it is no longer deemed relevant in content.

Thats why id rather see more emphasis put towards making RDM a desirable option because what it can do...if needed, and what it provides otherwise while waiting for that need to open up. It doesn't need to be a long list of buffs or debuffs. Simply giving RDM the ability to increase group productiveness (such as En-Elemental Debuffs, or something in that similar sense EN-Trait) while waiting for a WHM to get low on MP or BLM to need to /heal. Enfeebles not being immune on everything would also help a lot, as most of RDM's buffs actually are tied to enfeebles.

Although I think in order to reestablish RDM in a similar role it had at the 75 cap, it would require the restriction of convert to subjobs...and I think that one would **** a lot of people off.


|I don't know Id rather compete with BRD/DNC/COR for a party slot, instead of with 10 DD's, or be pigeon holed into a singular role again.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#72 Jan 16 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Locking or even nerfing Convert as a sub would change nothing, really. MP efficiency for other jobs has improved a lot since the 75 days. And while I get not wanting a giant list of debuffs to run through, SE could still pony up and introduce mixed spells that aren't compromised in potency. But like with Additional Effect interaction, the log would need to reflect multiples landing simultaneously and not just one to avoid questions of resists/immunity. Remember, time to be diverse has always been our enemy.

Edited, Jan 16th 2013 4:57pm by Seriha
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#73 Jan 17 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
The All Knowing
Avatar
*****
10,152 posts
HeroMystic wrote:

Our Enspell IIs are crap no matter how you slice it, but I prefer to forget they ever existed instead of hopelessly trying to fix them.


I would rather fix them. They are subpar, but not nearly as much as people are making them out to be. Just changing the +enhance to be at casting would be a great enhancement. As awesome as dual-wielding EII would be, I do believe that would be too much of a boost. I would rather have the second hand be a samba or some other enhancement.

Maybe create a Tier III that gives some sort of buff/debuff and only works on the off-hand?
#74 Jan 17 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
Almalieque wrote:
As awesome as dual-wielding EII would be, I do believe that would be too much of a boost.

Why does everyone keep insisting on this?

If the problem is the amount of damage tier 2 caps at stacking the deck for a Dual Wielding RDM, simply cap the damage lower when Dual Wielding--at half the single-wield potential, just to throw out an idea.

And Sambas should exist in parallel with En-spells, not either/or. They need to stop ******* about and address that.

Edited, Jan 17th 2013 5:04pm by SunriderRagnarok
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#75 Jan 18 2013 at 5:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
11,147 posts
Yeah, like I said, additional effects need to play nicer with one another.

And I'm not really sold on a fully powered T2 being dual-wieldable as the end of the world, especially in party settings. Our innately lower ATK values are still a concern, with that lesser WS potential. Attack rate, thus TP gain, is also inhibited by casting, albeit offset a bit FC and Temper and DA/TA gear. Basically, that added damage would help compensate a bit. Sure, we'd munch through fodder mobs more merrily, but are really worrying about fodder or things that matter, that'd likely involve MDB and resist issues anyway?

There's a part of me that hopes with SE adjusting nukes that they also go through the game and adjust every mob so elemental strengths/weaknesses mean more for us. Right now, it's pretty much Thunder and Blizzard or GTFO unless the mob is deliberately resistant to both. Situations where Thunder would do like 0.25x damage while Aero would do 1.75x on an Stone-y mob would be welcome by me, nuke or enspell.
____________________________
Violence good. **** bad. Yay America.
#76 Jan 18 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
Seriha wrote:
And I'm not really sold on a fully powered T2 being dual-wieldable as the end of the world, especially in party settings. Our innately lower ATK values are still a concern, with that lesser WS potential. Attack rate, thus TP gain, is also inhibited by casting, albeit offset a bit FC and Temper and DA/TA gear. Basically, that added damage would help compensate a bit. Sure, we'd munch through fodder mobs more merrily, but are really worrying about fodder or things that matter, that'd likely involve MDB and resist issues anyway?
Ditto. I was simply offering a real compromise, as opposed to "doesn't work on any additional hits or off-hand," which is utter garbage.

A tier 2 friendly to multi-hit/Dual Wield, and with tier 1's formula, would have set us up nicely to fill a "magic DPS" niche.

That is, until they created Rune Fencer to fill that niche instead.
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 1 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (1)