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RDM update stuffFollow

#52 Oct 06 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Default
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Tranquil Heart should have been the silver bullet fix to allow Cure V to be opened to other jobs. It could have applied the Cure V enmity rule to all cures, been given at the same level White Mage gets Cure V and only given to White Mage. Suddenly Cure V becomes ok to hand out to others because it comes with a huge risk of pulling hate attached to it, leaving White Mage the preferred healer while allowing other jobs to not be left in the dust with spell progression.

Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Alright guys, stop it with the flaming and trolling. I swear you guys certainly know how to drive a Rdm topic into the ground by berating one another.

National sport, etc etc.
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#53 Oct 06 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Lyltia, in regards to your comment as to why that post had been left up there, no one reported it.


Fair enough. I'll use that next time instead of being a jackass, sorry about that.

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National sport, etc etc.


Smiley: laugh
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#54 Oct 06 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
To be fair though, there was also a bit of a difference between the situations. What happened in that other topic people were reporting that they considered it an actual threat towards Alma, that the individual (I forget who offhand) deliberately said he was going to go over to Alma's server and fraps him playing his Rdm. The context wasn't meant to be harassment, but there were people that felt that he (the individual) was planning on doing it to harass Alma.

In Hyrist's case, besides the fact that it wasn't reported, we've all had those days where we've just been so fed up with work and whatnot that you'll make an outrageous comment like that without any indication of meaning it (I found how he said it a bit on the sarcastic side, which further led me to that belief about no real indication of it). If he had named names and mentioned someone specifically from the forums, then there'd be no question about it.

As it was in the case of the post though, it was a gray area.
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#55 Oct 06 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's not so much a "bad day" perception for me as the growing vocalization that any RDM who dares favor developmental attention to its martial aspects is either some kind of second class citizen or mental reject. When you have these people picking fights with you on multiple boards or calling their buddies in to try and silence through vocal oppression regardless of context, or stage threads solely for that purpose, trying to take the higher ground just doesn't work and creating a welcoming atmosphere for legitimate discourse, no matter how dead horse a subject may be, is lost. That's something I think is worth getting mad over and no XI-related forum has really taken the steps to healthily address. Instead, it's just a sort of... throw your hands in the air and passively blame it on the internet being the internet kind of affair.
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#56 Oct 06 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
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To be fair though, there was also a bit of a difference between the situations.


What I said was:

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Anybody know which server x plays on? I have FRAPS, a spare character slot, and some free time.


Not even close to being nearly as direct as what Hyrist said. You can argue the implication of the statement, sure; but it's just that: implication, subject to the interpretation of the reader... whereas Hyrist pretty much came out and said that someday, he's going on a murderous rampage and targeting all the people he doesn't like (and guess what, it was posted in response to other posters who he has made explicitly clear he does not like), and your interpretation is that it was sarcastic/joking/etc, even sympathizing with him a little. Again, the power of interpretation at work.

All I can say is, both were out of line, but if one were to actually happen, which would be worse? One involves some internet hijinx, with some hurt feelings maybe, the other is... well, yeah, I don't really think there's a comparison... and consider that the lesser evil was merely implied, while the much greater one was stated as an inevitability.

TL;DR: If you're going to mod, you need to be dispassionate about it, or there's no @#%^ing point.

Edited, Oct 6th 2011 5:11pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#57 Oct 06 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Alright guys, stop it with the flaming and trolling. I swear you guys certainly know how to drive a Rdm topic into the ground by berating one another.


I bet this all wouldn't have happened if RDM had gotten Cure 5
#58 Oct 06 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
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It's not so much a "bad day" perception for me as the growing vocalization that any RDM who dares favor developmental attention to its martial aspects is either some kind of second class citizen or mental reject.


And as for this? Go read back through the thread, and you'll see that it was quite civil until Hyrist didn't like the answer he got and ranted off an essay about completely unrelated ****. If anything, we were encouraging him in his melee ways by attempting to explain how to properly compare gear when building his melee sets.

It's not the fact that he melees that makes people treat him (and others) like a mental reject/second-class citizen; it's the fact that he (and others) completely rejects sound math/advice simply because it came out of someone else's mouth, and further compounds it with aforementioned rant.

You need to remove yourself from your echo chamber and see the forest for the trees, so on, so forth. You think everyone is out to point and laugh at you for meleeing on RDM, but the reality is that really, nobody cares. Really, they don't! However, if you're going to shove it in everyone's face every chance you get, people are naturally going to expect you to know your ****; and for some reason, it seems that these very same people tend to have very poor knowledge of how the game works (for a pretty good example, check out page 1).

You'll notice that melee RDMs that take the time to gear themselves properly and run parses so they actually have data to make cogent points about are generally treated pretty well by the community. This is not a coincidence, nor an isolated incident. Conversely, disregarding math in favor of ******** how RDM is a MAGIC SWORDSMAN and should be competing with heavy DDs is a pretty surefire way to get yourself immolated by the internet. This, too, is not a coincidence, nor an isolated incident.

So please, I know you've been carrying that torch for a long time, and it's probably pretty hard to let it go (all the times you've had!), but... just let it go. You'll feel much better, I promise.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#59 Oct 06 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
To be fair though, there was also a bit of a difference between the situations.


What I said was:

Quote:
Anybody know which server x plays on? I have FRAPS, a spare character slot, and some free time.


Not even close to being nearly as direct as what Hyrist said. You can argue the implication of the statement, sure; but it's just that: implication, subject to the interpretation of the reader... whereas Hyrist pretty much came out and said that someday, he's going on a murderous rampage and targeting all the people he doesn't like (and guess what, it was posted in response to other posters who he has made explicitly clear he does not like), and your interpretation is that it was sarcastic/joking/etc, even sympathizing with him a little. Again, the power of interpretation at work.

All I can say is, both were out of line, but if one were to actually happen, which would be worse? One involves some internet hijinx, with some hurt feelings maybe, the other is... well, yeah, I don't really think there's a comparison... and consider that the lesser evil was merely implied, while the much greater one was stated as an inevitability.

TL;DR: If you're going to mod, you need to be dispassionate about it, or there's no @#%^ing point.

Edited, Oct 6th 2011 5:11pm by LyltiaofLakshmi


Actually, that jogged my memory of the situation a bit. It wasn't towards you that I was having the issues with, it was towards someone else that made an escalating comment from what you had said. They made the comment of actually finding Alma IRL, which is what sparked the whole harassment issue. The whole going over to his server was what started it, but it was that person's comment that was what had me intervene in the topic, cause I taking comments like that rather seriously. Likewise, if Hyrist had made the comment and mentioned someone by name, then there would be no gray area, but since he didn't, there was that gray area involved.
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#60 Oct 06 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Default
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Let me guess someone has to report it then it is an issue? One Sec.
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#61 Oct 07 2011 at 2:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Conversely, disregarding math in favor of ******** how RDM is a MAGIC SWORDSMAN and should be competing with heavy DDs is a pretty surefire way to get yourself immolated by the internet.


See, you're doing it. Somewhere along the way, apparently wanting to keep the job true to its concept became the crime. The ultimate resulting argument is that the "math" doesn't add up to whatever aspect in question, usually melee, to a value found satisfactory. How many parses, which would inevitably be questioned and ridiculed to death if numbers don't favor the haters, are needed before some might go, "Well, okay, you guys do have a point..."? How many peanut gallery posters do we need to swing by and pretend a melee RDM totally ruined their FFXI (I'll be catty and call this Erecia's Law)? And what's to justify the, "Well, RDM should get XYZ first..." attempts at priority? Like, say... Cure V?

As you said, I've been carrying the torch a long time. Dropping it is exactly what all the naysayers would love for me or others who share my thoughts to do. By default, I have no issue with people who disagree with whatever view I have on a matter, but then you get people like this who, when they find they can't win the argument of opinion (THIS ISN'T MATH, FOLKS!), resort to personal attacks and start making things up. I know Cid happily congregates among them and he, as well as others, have a habit of going out of their way to instigate issues. Or you'll get people who will presume to speak for me in a negative context like RCD does here just because I said the old 80% "standard" got us nowhere in the melee game. If it did, the debate certainly still wouldn't be going on.

Anyway, I can't pretend to know what motivates every single person out there who plays RDM to do so. I've seen plenty of examples, though, and I've seen plenty of people who would merrily **** on someone else's play style to get what they want. A lot of us have looked to the Official Boards as finally a way of being heard, but as far as FFXI goes on the whole, that success has been questionable of late. Some use that as justification for their bully tactics ("Temper can't be cast on others?! **** YOU MELEE WHINERS!"), acting on an irrational fear that any attention SE gives to RDM comes at an either/or basis when the painful reality is SE will do as much or as little as they want. Even so, how do you work with people unwilling to compromise, unwilling to actually converse without demeaning and belittling?

Finishing up with the earlier quote in mind, this is also the point where we'd find some of the "numbers" people to be hypocrites, or perhaps more appropriately, bandwagoners. Just look at DRK as an inverse to RDM when it comes to mage and melee. They've got more than their share of people who think paying attention to the job's magical side is a waste and that focus should be on making them the king DD. Yet, like RDM, magic is part of their concept. Neither job is what it should be without its collective parts coming together, and it's not some kind of travesty to want that to mean something. None of this, "Well, as long as you don't ABC around ME!" or "It's just a solo toy!" crap. That's a red flag that something isn't good enough, and as a game of numbers, can be fixed.

Edited, Oct 7th 2011 4:41am by Seriha
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#62LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Oct 07 2011 at 6:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I assure you that nowhere in the 'concept' of RDM does it say that you should be dealing damage on par with dedicated, heavy DD jobs. Your expectations are unrealistic and pathetic, hence why we laugh at you every chance we get.
#63 Oct 07 2011 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
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See, you're doing it. Somewhere along the way, apparently wanting to keep the job true to its concept became the crime.


I assure you that nowhere in the 'concept' of RDM does it say that you should be dealing damage on par with dedicated, heavy DD jobs. Your expectations are unrealistic and pathetic, hence why we laugh at you every chance we get.

A laughable comment in itself. Never has anyone supporting RDM melee ever expected or demanded that it equal or surpass the potential of a dedicated DD. Rather, we wind up spending more time constantly reminding you... people, of that fact.

But Seriha has a valid point in that RDM melee isn't going to get acceptance from the conservative crowd whether it's doing 80% or 120% of a DD's potential, so we may as well stop self-moderating and forgo restraint when beseeching S-E for improvements.

S-E, should they follow through, can moderate jobs without assistance. Temper should be proof of that.

Edited, Oct 7th 2011 6:05am by SunriderRagnarok
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#64 Oct 07 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Default
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A laughable comment in itself. Never has anyone supporting RDM melee ever equal or surpass the potential of a dedicated DD> Rather, we wind up spending more time constantly reminding you... people, of that fact.


I suggest you reread Seriha's post, then come back and tell me how he is not saying we should equal or surpass the potential of a dedicated DD. Here, I'll even point it out to you:

Quote:
Conversely, disregarding math in favor of ******** how RDM is a MAGIC SWORDSMAN and should be competing with heavy DDs is a pretty surefire way to get yourself immolated by the internet.

Quote:
See, you're doing it. Somewhere along the way, apparently wanting to keep the job true to its concept became the crime.



You might wanna try reading before jumping on my **** next time, pal.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#65 Oct 07 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey, I said it and I'm not seeing it, either. This one of those "putting words in my mouth" cases like the one I pointed out with RCD.

You're immediately thinking I'm translating melee to damage. Damage is a factor, yes, but being "magic swordsmen" in no way suggests the job should be hanging in the back wearing staves anytime they dare consider playing with people against things that, as is often used, don't matter. Melee can and should have its utility aspects to compensate for the lesser physical output, something with a reward that justifies the risk the harder the mob difficulty gets, but instead of entertaining the possibility and refining ideas, it's basically one giant hissyfit of doomsday scenarios.

I suspect for some, they fear their staunch posturing may somehow come off as wrong if they gave it a shot. Others, I imagine, just want to be lazy and not chase new gear if something came of it. Of the few legitimately happy with how things are now, or perhaps were, changes one way or the other really shouldn't bother them since we're not actively clamoring for nerfs toward the job itself.
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#66LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Oct 07 2011 at 7:44 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) If you can't see it, you fail reading comprehension forever. My only question is, is it willful, or is that really the lens through which you see the world?
#67 Oct 07 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for demonstrating my points, by the way.
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#68 Oct 07 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Default
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Just returning the favor.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#69 Oct 07 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Of the few legitimately happy with how things are now, or perhaps were, changes one way or the other really shouldn't bother them since we're not actively clamoring for nerfs toward the job itself.


Glad I am one of the few who are more or less content with how RDM is being positioned. I agree that our melee output is kind of lagging but we have received increase to that from higher Fast Cast tier (now only requires Dbody Wchap to cap) extended duration on buffs (AFv3) which translates into more melee time (about a 5% increase to DD over our previous levels under a standard front line casting load.) We have Temper which is a variable % increase depending on other gear, but likely hovering in the 10% range most of the time. That is a 15% increase (give or take) to our melee side.

The only issue I currently have with RDM is the healing gap. Even SCH is fairly far ahead of us with Rapture healing, WHM is unquestionably the best. RDM is as well of as BLU DNC in ability to reliably heal, and is in the same boat as SMN/BRD/BLM subbing WHM in how well we can heal over all.

Lets look at it this way, our nuking side got a great buff with T4's and the gear associated with them. Our melee side has had a pretty good sized buff via abilities, and gear.

Our healing has gone no where since level 75, save for regen II and the amount of cure potency we can get.

Oh and our enfeebles are still being relegated to useless because SE has made everything immune or redundant to cast on.

But more or less RDM I like where RDM is right now, it has no clear role and other than healing can fill most positions adequately. You know like the job was designed to do.

If you don't like it, level a dedicated job. This is why I leveled WHM, I like to heal, RDM can't do it, so I leveled a job that could. (in less than a week).

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#70 Oct 08 2011 at 10:55 PM Rating: Good
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Hey guys, good to see that things are still pretty much as they were when I last came around, if perhaps with a bit less hilarity and a bit more direct hating.

To be on topic for a paragraph, I would really like to see red mage, as well as scholar and paladin, get some new form of people die less now. I'm not gonna say it has to be cure V since it is a pretty epic spell to suddenly dole out to everyone and I'm not gonna claim to have the right answer for it either, but for the love of god SE please hand out some more heals kthx.

Okay. Now for what I really want to talk about, and that's the omgrant that's been taking place here. I've always been in favor for throwing red mage a bit more of a bone in terms of their melee aspect because I love to melee with my red mage. When discussing it with others, I like to say things like "when the game was lv.50 cap, the gear that was available really allowed red mage to have fairly comperable stats to other medium level DD jobs in terms of gear." Somewhere along the way, that just stopped happening altogether and I've never stopped being sad about it, because there's no other job or class like it in any other MMO I've ever played, and lately I've been looking. There's something in the experience of red-maging that I have never found anywhere else.

The point? Most people have an attitude that says "You should have just leveled scholar, because that's what we want you to play." I see that primarily in RCD's posts, no offense intended.

I think it's understandable when Hyrist has the kind of reaction he had earlier in this thread. I find Seriha's posts to be lucid and calm and informative, and by contrast it seems like lyltia is just trolling. Yes, I read your quote. I don't think competing with = matching. I suppose the question becomes should a top tier melee RDM perform better than an AH anything? I think it should.

Because obviously no one talks about an averagely equiped melee red mage. Perish the thought that such things even exist. You aren't allowed to talk about meleeing on RDM without CDC and all the rare/ex gear in the game, and even then it's something that I guess we can just turn a blind eye to since even if we don't like it at least they have a good weaponskill and haste cap, amirite?

P.S. I love you Hyrist and I want your friends.

Disclaimer: I haven't touched RDM since 75 cap due to raaaage quit, and while I know of some of the new shinies it's my understanding that it's been more of the same until temper and suchlike just recently, so maybe AH melee is exactly where it was when i last looked?

Edited, Oct 8th 2011 11:56pm by Aiyl
#71 Oct 09 2011 at 1:56 AM Rating: Default
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I think it's understandable when Hyrist has the kind of reaction he had earlier in this thread. I find Seriha's posts to be lucid and calm and informative, and by contrast it seems like lyltia is just trolling. Yes, I read your quote. I don't think competing with = matching. I suppose the question becomes should a top tier melee RDM perform better than an AH anything? I think it should.


How can competing /=/ matching? If you lose everytime, it's not a competition. And yes, a top-tier melee RDM does compete given targets that aren't completely out of their reach... but that requires gear and stuff. As for CDC... Empyreans are standard equipment for anyone serious about meleeing on most jobs these days; RDM is no exception, and it's not like the RA/EX gear is difficult to acquire either... if it drops in Abyssea, it's easy.

Almace: Abyssea
Zelus Tiara: Abyssea
Rancor Collar: ~300k
Suppanomimi: Divine Might
Brutal Earring: CoP
Goliard Saio: Nyzul
Dusk+1 / New DynaTav gloves: 1mil or kill Arch Diabolos or w/e
Rajas: CoP
Other ring varies
Atheling Mantle: Abyssea
Goading Belt: Abyssea
Calmecac Trousers: 1mil
Dusk +1: 1mil

This isn't even the best set, but it caps Haste for 4mil + quested stuff + Abyssea drops. If you're actually serious about being a good melee RDM, this is about a month's effort at most, and you can lowman your way through all of it, which is why it's hard to take anyone seriously who ******* about how terrible RDM melee is and how hard it is to get all the gear for it.

This is why I have zero respect for Seriha, because he believes that RDM melee is just inherently broken, and that having to acquire gear to get good results is somehow unfair. Perhaps if he spent less time whining here and on the official forums for SE to hand him everything and more time in-game killing stuff and improving his gear, he'd see things my way... but I'm not holding my breath.
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#72 Oct 09 2011 at 4:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is why I have zero respect for Seriha, because he believes that RDM melee is just inherently broken, and that having to acquire gear to get good results is somehow unfair. Perhaps if he spent less time whining here and on the official forums for SE to hand him everything and more time in-game killing stuff and improving his gear, he'd see things my way... but I'm not holding my breath.


It's easy to assume I'm just sitting in my MH with no gear, isn't it?

You want to throw around that having an Empyrean weapon is standard gear. I disagree. We've been over why, but as a recap for new readers, I don't believe any job should have to hit max level and then some before it can even begin tapping into an aspect of it. This isn't me saying, "I want to be awesome without gear!" It's me saying, "The cumulative aspects of RDM are on too much of a steep slope, with Almace being the perfect example of Zero to Hero type balancing." And even with this, you still see resistance, you still see people claiming RDM melee is beyond repair and not worthy of dev time. If the job is truly in such a good place as your collective effort would imply, why aren't you in their face calling them ignorant, dumb, and immolatingeducating them?

Overall, I know what I've been through here, on other boards, and in-game. Tapping into RDM's martial aspects is an uphill battle statistically and socially. The former influences the latter, and not having your respect, the @#%^ all it's done for me or could ever hope to, isn't going to change that. Meanwhile, I have no interest in seeing RDMs, present and future, go through the same crap myself and others have just because we didn't choose the path of least resistance. Capped haste and CDC might've done the trick at 75, but everyone else has grown since then. I'm not sorry that me calling that to the attention of others is so offensive to your sensibilities, but I stand by the point that if we were so truly and honestly well off, people wouldn't be going insane the moment RDM and melee is spoken in the same sentence without ridiculing it.

Edited, Oct 9th 2011 6:49am by Seriha
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#73 Oct 09 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Default
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We've been over why, but as a recap for new readers, I don't believe any job should have to hit max level and then some before it can even begin tapping into an aspect of it.


Beginning from a flawed assumption such as this is a big part of why your argument fails... it's like you don't understand RDM at all. As a generalist, RDM can perform many roles, but starts at a disadvantage in each of them compared to the specialists of the field. It is no different for nuking, curing, tanking, kiting, etc. You also make it sound like RDM's melee capability is terribad until you hit the cap, and as anyone who meleed their way through old XP parties (until we got Refresh and started camping the backline fulltime), you're full of ****.

Quote:
And even with this, you still see resistance, you still see people claiming RDM melee is beyond repair and not worthy of dev time. If the job is truly in such a good place as your collective effort would imply, why aren't you in their face calling them ignorant, dumb, and educating them?


What do you think I'm doing here?

Quote:
Overall, I know what I've been through here, on other boards, and in-game. Tapping into RDM's martial aspects is an uphill battle statistically and socially. The former influences the latter, and not having your respect, the @#%^ all it's done for me or could ever hope to, isn't going to change that.


This is how I know you sit around in your MH and don't have good gear (or you choose bad targets, or you just don't know what you're doing in general, take your pick), because my experience as melee RDM is the complete opposite.

Edited, Oct 9th 2011 11:03am by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#74 Oct 09 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Default
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Capped haste and CDC might've done the trick at 75, but everyone else has grown since then. I'm not sorry that me calling that to the attention of others is so offensive to your sensibilities, but I stand by the point that if we were so truly and honestly well off, people wouldn't be going insane the moment RDM and melee is spoken in the same sentence without ridiculing it.


and gain, no matter how many times you want to deny it. You entire argument always always comes down to damage. It always does. RDM is not a DD, can it DD sure, but it is not nor should it ever be a job that pops to mind when you are making a group and need DD.

RDM is a job that has ability to adequately function in many roles, but should never be truly great at any of them. As my last post said, sure we still need some tweakings (primarily on the part of the devs to put us on EX Dagger/and Sword WS's. Put us on Dagger Magians) for melee and healing. But for the most part the job is in a good place.

If you want to play a job where people will say we need X to do Y, go level a dedicated job. If you want to play a job that can fit into most slots and is a gear swap away from others then play RDM and learn to accept the fact that because RDM can do a bit of it all, that you should have limitations.

Funny you always bring it back to being about damage though.

Quote:
And even with this, you still see resistance, you still see people claiming RDM melee is beyond repair and not worthy of dev time. If the job is truly in such a good place as your collective effort would imply, why aren't you in their face calling them ignorant, dumb, and educating them?


because they are right there are much more larger issues with RDM then its melee side currently. Enfeebles are practically useless because SE refuses to make mobs vulnerable to them, healing is growing further and further behind (especially now with SCH's buffs), our "super buffing" is limited to Refresh II, and Phalanx II as our only unique native buffs. (and the fact Temper and our gain spells are both restricted from accession is just another punch to the jaw on top of it all.)

All things that are more important to a group then our melee (even if we hit as hard as a WAR the benefits w provide otherwise have always been more useful).

Edited, Oct 9th 2011 11:00am by rdmcandie

Edited, Oct 9th 2011 11:03am by rdmcandie
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#75 Oct 09 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
[quote]

Almace: Abyssea
Zelus Tiara: Abyssea
Rancor Collar: ~300k
Suppanomimi: Divine Might
Brutal Earring: CoP
Goliard Saio: Nyzul
Dusk+1 / New DynaTav gloves: 1mil or kill Arch Diabolos or w/e
Rajas: CoP
Other ring varies
Atheling Mantle: Abyssea
Goading Belt: Abyssea
Calmecac Trousers: 1mil
Dusk +1: 1mil


To speak only for myself, I've always had a terrible, terrible time keeping anyone around longer than it took for the pick up group to get them the item they wanted out of the experience, and pretty much have no competent friends to speak of. So basically, if I can't solo it, it probably isn't going to happen, although by some miracle i did jump into a pickup for zee calmecac trousers and got them. I also have a Rajas, atheling, and I've been poking my way towards a brutal earring solo/occasionally duo. I also tend to only be floating about 100k at any given time. I'm 7/9 on zone clears in aby and only have 1 caturae win under my belt.

In the mean time i'm still wearing swift in my waist, using NQ dusk, swinging a joyeuse, not really having a body piece besides scorpion harness and generally feeling kind of bad about it. It would be nice to have some middle ground in terms of upgrades that were readily soloable.
#76 Oct 09 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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And as long as you have Evisceration, (buy a 100K blau), a modest haste set,eat meat, and at least RR, GH atmas, your melee will be competent enough for abyssea. Gil is easily made (especially for a RDM) by farming Dark Rings which will let you buy some of the pricier gear, and/or pay LS's to get you the items.

As for CDC you can easily solo for the non EMP weapon, to have CDC open while you work on building an EMP weapon.

The gear isn't unobtainable, it just requires a drive to get it, and sometimes some good friends who don't need to get something to come help. (then again saying you have no competent friends to speak of is probably a bad way to start asking them for help.)

Actually **** the rest....GL to you.
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