Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Job Adjustments ManifestoFollow

#252 Aug 25 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
Obligatory counterpoints:

Quote:
I do know that you must wear the suit to gain the benefits and that our gear isn't that great for meleeing


Swap it in to cast buffs, change back to melee gear after? (It's 2011 and we still have to tell people to use gearswaps...?)

Quote:
Composure is still a toy for most RDM's if nothing more than we don't have the gear to use it.


If you can't acquire a +2 set for a job you take seriously enough to ***** about incessantly on the forums...

Composure is not a toy. Learning how to take advantage of it to the fullest is RDM 101.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#253ShadowedgeFFXI, Posted: Aug 25 2011 at 2:14 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Isn't it obvious? Duration for Composure for all RDM's no matter what style you play. Temper only caters to soloing/front line types. Basically, Composure fits our "jack of all trades" role, Temper does not.
#254 Aug 25 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
Jack of All Trades
******
29,231 posts
Quote:
Composure's triple duration and Acc bonuses can't be shared with others, why isn't it a steaming pile of crap as well?


I know many people who actually did consider it a steaming pile of crap for that reason, at least before AF3+2.
#255 Aug 25 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Isn't it obvious? Duration for Composure for all RDM's no matter what style you play. Temper only caters to soloing/front line types. Basically, Composure fits our "jack of all trades" role, Temper does not.

So, Spontanaeity, Saboteur, Magic Attack Bonus/Magic Defense Bonus/Magic Burst Bonus/Fast Cast/Group 1 Merits/Group 2 Merits, all of which cater only only to the magical aspect of the class, these are okay, despite offering no bonus to the melee-involved play style? They fit the "Jack of All Trades" role just fine, right?



Edited, Aug 25th 2011 1:30pm by SunriderRagnarok
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#256 Aug 25 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
Quote:
Basically, Composure fits our "jack of all trades" role, Temper does not.


This speaks volumes about how you look at the job. Frontline and backline RDM is not the distinction that should be made; There are RDMs that are prepared to leverage any of their trades according to the needs of strategy, whether it be meleeing, nuking, buffing, healing, stunning, crowd control, enfeebling, kiting, tanking, pulling, saccing, or any of the various combinations of the above; and RDMs who only bother with the aspects of the job they think are valuable/enjoyable (and curiously enough, tend to look down on other players who choose to utilize the aspects of the job they themselves shun).

As such, every spell/ability fits our 'jack of all trades' role, as they are all useful in various circumstances.

On a related note, I know Saevel likes to paint anyone that disagrees with him/her as a non-RDM that just wants RDM to cycle buffs forever, but the simple fact is that a great RDM has the gear/skill to cover whichever angle will get the job done faster/safer/more efficiently. If you're the type that refuses to cycle buffs when cycling buffs is what your party needs, or just flat-out refuses to come as RDM for that reason, you are a ****** RDM. Period.

And furthermore, why is cycling buffs even a problem anymore? Enhancing duration is doubled, drastically reducing the frequency at which you have to cycle; and the old XP format when cycling endlessly was the only way to keep your party going is long dead. The instances in which you'd find yourself cycling are drastically reduced in frequency, duration, and effort, and chances are good that it will be alleviated further with more duration+ gear at the very least. It really just seems to me like you're ******** just to *****, as per usual.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#257 Aug 25 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
If you're the type that refuses to cycle buffs when cycling buffs is what your party needs, or just flat-out refuses to come as RDM for that reason, you are a sh*tty RDM. Period.
Or you're a savvy individual calling ******** to an effed-up party set-up, as parties that require the support to simply cycle buffs ad nauseum typically wind up being.
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#258 Aug 25 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
So what you're saying is that you're opposed to actually helping your party. Got it.
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#259 Aug 25 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
1,033 posts
cidbahamut wrote:
So what you're saying is that you're opposed to actually helping your party. Got it.

I'm saying there are limits.

Everyone contributes, some more than others, some less visibly than others, but no one should be expected to roll over completely for the other 5/15/50 people's personal glory. You can volunteer to roll over all you want, but the moment someone else makes the assumption you should roll over for the benefit of others, sh*t's gone wrong.

While I wouldn't call people inherently abusive, there is a trend in advantage taken of one's kindness. You do your team the favor of cycling spells, to the exclusion of your own interests or comfort, ere long it will go from a generous favor to strict expectation. Are you the bad guy for becoming weary of it? Are you against the team effort for wanting to drop a DD in favor of a class that will share the burden?




If you find endless cycling fun, great. If you're okay with the acquisition of gear being enjoyable and the process of acquisition being tedious and monotonous, more power to you. If you're willing to suffer for "the greater good," I wish you all the best.

But there are many players--many RDMs--that are weary of it. They don't consider it a very honest definition of team work, they don't consider it an enjoyable (and thusly justifiable) use of one's time in a video game. And neither do I.

Edited, Aug 25th 2011 2:22pm by SunriderRagnarok
____________________________
Level 75 Scruffy/37 Nerfherder

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world, the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

- George Bernard Shaw
#260 Aug 25 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
Then go level a job you enjoy.

The solution to relieving the tedium of maintaining buff cycles is not to stamp your feet and scream at SE to never ever ever give you a spell that can be cast on others ever again. The solution is to stamp your feet and scream for SE to give you the tools to make maintaining buffs trivially easy such that they're not such a burden. Would you people be all up in arms if Temper was castable on others with a 30 minute duration like how Protect and Shell are? I think not, but please, feel free to correct me in that assumption and illustrate your commitment to ensuring you are not contributing to your party.
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#261 Aug 25 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
**
654 posts
Honestly I think at this point our best best isn't for more single target part spells, but instead a way to mirror our buffs onto other party members.
#262 Aug 25 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,345 posts
The job dosen't function the way advertised and described.

So Cid suggest you abandon the job and level something different.

GREAT way to fix the job. Let's just delete it!

And before you say "Well some people like RDM being a cycle based single target healer."

Some people also like watching child ****, or getting kicked in the nads by kleets. Doesn't mean it's fun in the conventional sense.

Single Target buffing the entire party seems like an exerosize in tedium, no matter how you try to phrase it. There's only two solutons: One, encourage RDM to try to focus on one person's heavy buffs in priority (And don't tell me it dosen't exist already, thats' what we have in a refresh/haste priority list.)

Or, you become an AoE buffer, in which case, you're pretty much a Bard or Corsair.

If we're going to be a single target buffer, lets have better support for giving a SINGLE target better buffs. I've no problem shooting specific buffs to specific people. But if we get more single target buffs the tedium of this is going to get even worse. And there's a sizeable concern among both front and back line Red Mages about the tedium of single target buffs.

The new JA won't help all that much with it even as it stands. Crying about temper not going the way of haste is laughable to me because people who desired it that way, weren't thinking of the long term development of the job and what adding a spell like that to the party list would impact it.

It's just a shortsighted "Oh I want another melee buff to cycle and be important again!" cry. And honestly, if we're wanting to support a party better in melee performance, debuffs would be better over buffs, as one cast covers an entire party's or sometimes even an alliance's performance.

Again, I'm in support of a singular ability that blanket effects our buffs to give to another. Then any arguments about self target spells and set ups is kind of irrelevant, and we DO end up meeting the manifesto in the buffing sense. And gives our solo/duelist fashion a twist to be able to bestow it upon a party member.
#263 Aug 25 2011 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
***
1,018 posts
Quote:
And before you say "Well some people like RDM being a cycle based single target healer."

Some people also like watching child ****, or getting kicked in the nads by kleets. Doesn't mean it's fun in the conventional sense.
I miss RDM's cycling prime days... like you cannot believe... *sigh*

I mean sheesh, the hand-motion of cycling 'refresh' and 'haste' is how I finally quit smoking cigarettes, and I had tried EVERYTHING from Nicorette to getting kicked in the crotch with cleats while watching child **** Zyban.
____________________________
--------- Xenith ---------
----------------------------
RDM /
*videos*
#264 Aug 25 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Quote:
Or you're a savvy individual calling bullsh*t to an effed-up party set-up, as parties that require the support to simply cycle buffs ad nauseum typically wind up being.


Or you're playing tank party RDM vs. HNM?

Savvy individual... lol.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#265 Aug 25 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
Hyrist wrote:
The job dosen't function the way advertised and described.

You say this like it means a **** thing. The job has been a mage for how many years now? Go complain at SE to update their decade old blurb on the official site. The job developed into something different from the original concept art. That's hardly surprising or unheard of. The job doesn't need "fixing" in the way you like to believe it does. You need to come to terms with the reality of what the job has been for the duration of FFXI's lifespan.

Hyrist wrote:

So Cid suggest you abandon the job and level something different.

GREAT way to fix the job. Let's just delete it!

Now you're being silly. No one said anything about deleting jobs. If you're not enjoying the class you picked, why would you continue to play it when there are 19 other ones to try out that you might find to be tons more fun?


Hyrist wrote:

Single Target buffing the entire party seems like an exerosize in tedium, no matter how you try to phrase it. There's only two solutons: One, encourage RDM to try to focus on one person's heavy buffs in priority (And don't tell me it dosen't exist already, thats' what we have in a refresh/haste priority list.)

Or, you become an AoE buffer, in which case, you're pretty much a Bard or Corsair.

If we're going to be a single target buffer, lets have better support for giving a SINGLE target better buffs. I've no problem shooting specific buffs to specific people. But if we get more single target buffs the tedium of this is going to get even worse. And there's a sizeable concern among both front and back line Red Mages about the tedium of single target buffs.

That's the thing though, no matter how you spin it if you can hand out buffs to people one at a time you're still going to end up being encouraged to hand them out to multiple people. It is the inevitable result, so making them AoE makes it less of a pain in the ***. You aren't going to get a single target buff that turns someone into Batman and not be expected to hand it out to as many people as possible. The solution is readily apparent. No one ever ******* about having to cycle Shellra, think about that for a minute and get back to me.

Hyrist wrote:

The new JA won't help all that much with it even as it stands. Crying about temper not going the way of haste is laughable to me because people who desired it that way, weren't thinking of the long term development of the job and what adding a spell like that to the party list would impact it.

It's just a shortsighted "Oh I want another melee buff to cycle and be important again!" cry. And honestly, if we're wanting to support a party better in melee performance, debuffs would be better over buffs, as one cast covers an entire party's or sometimes even an alliance's performance.

So you honestly prefer a cool buff to be utterly useless to anyone but yourself. Because you're so very very bitter after all those years of being required to actually assist your party instead of hitting things with swords all day long, is that it?

Hyrist wrote:

Again, I'm in support of a singular ability that blanket effects our buffs to give to another. Then any arguments about self target spells and set ups is kind of irrelevant, and we DO end up meeting the manifesto in the buffing sense. And gives our solo/duelist fashion a twist to be able to bestow it upon a party member.

You keep mentioning this as if it's a forgone conclusion ready to be released with the next patch. Stop doing that.
I'm not sure how you specifically envision this, but I actually see it having the potential to make buffs cycles much much worse than they are right now depending on the implementation.
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#266 Aug 25 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Quote:
So you honestly prefer a cool buff to be utterly useless to anyone but yourself. Because you're so very very bitter after all those years of being required to actually assist your party instead of hitting things with swords all day long, is that it?


Some are more open about it than others, but yeah, this pretty much sums it up.

I'm starting to wonder what the percentage of people complaining about cycling buffs having full +2 armor is, because it really can't be overstated how much less obnoxious it is with the increased duration.

And before anyone posts anything even vaguely resembling "not everyone has full +2, it's hard, etc.", stop wasting your time posting here and go get it already. There isn't a single piece that's remotely difficult or time-consuming to acquire.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#267 Aug 26 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,569 posts
cidbahamut wrote:
You say this like it means a **** thing.
This is the point you constantly keep missing: it does mean a **** thing.
____________________________
Products of boredom: 1 2 3 4 5
Besieged
Hopes for FFXIV: Fencer | Red Mage
#268 Aug 26 2011 at 12:54 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,059 posts
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I do know that you must wear the suit to gain the benefits and that our gear isn't that great for meleeing.

Only on cast.
____________________________
"And I'm prepared to passionately argue this point until nothing makes sense anymore. If that doesn't work, then the hours upon hours of whining will." -Red Mage Statscowski

Saggo of Garuda Lakshmi
#269 Aug 26 2011 at 2:10 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Quote:
And before anyone posts anything even vaguely resembling "not everyone has full +2, it's hard, etc.", stop wasting your time posting here and go get it already. There isn't a single piece that's remotely difficult or time-consuming to acquire.


Honestly, it's similar to the expectation of CDC, just a lesser degree of the zero to hero status and at least more accessible. Body seals are definitely the worst of the litter to acquire, though, and just like melee, it shouldn't have to wait until 90 and then some to happen.

However, how would some feel if Composure did indeed extend buffs to 3x for everyone before any of this? Refresh would go from 150s to 450s/7.5m and Haste from 180s to 540s/9m. Everyone wins. Of course, now there's the question of what to do with the set bonus. It could maintain buff duration boosts, making roughly 4x an eventuality for everyone. Or it could take another reasonable route and grant 3% equipment Haste per +2 with 20% for the whole set. Either way, we'd still be better off than we are now in terms of cycles. And while SE could add further duration boosts to other slots, 6 slots are already taken and I'd argue the top 4 should be out if you're attempting to be melee friendly due to TP loss occurring in 3 of those 4 on swaps. On the other end, the prospect of 10 possible inventory slots just for duration boosts doesn't excite the side that already fusses of managing inventory when hopping between jobs or even determining what's important at a given moment.
#270LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Aug 26 2011 at 2:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Again with this sh*t. Why are you so insistent that you should have everything just handed to you outright instead of having to work for it by attaining level 90 (laughably easy) and farming up some gear? (reasonably easy) I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is virtually zero <90 content in the game that doesn't directly relate to gaining XP, why do you care so much? You make it sound like we get absolutely nothing to buff our melee before level 90, while I can produce a list if you like: Enspells in the teens, Haste at 41, Composure at 50, Joyeuse at 70, and Estoqueuer / Almace 80+. While the set bonus is a very nice boost, it does not create this "zero to hero" scenario you keep bringing up.
#271 Aug 26 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
Quote:
Composure is a toy for most RDM's. I love how you fail to address that you don't represent most RDM's.


What? How is it a toy....

Every RDM uses composure, even if they just put it on for Refresh II. It is opposite of a toy, for RDM. (if there are RDM's not at least using composure + Refresh II on themselves then they fail hard).

Normal 300/60 = 5MP gained per MP spent
/w Composure 900/60 = 15MP gained per MP spent

That is a 300% increase to the efficiency of Refresh II, that is 900 MP for 60 MP, instead of 900MP for 180 MP.

Pretty good for a toy.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#272 Aug 26 2011 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Cactuar and Goblin suck, both as fights and repop/KI requirements. Just getting to fight the tiger is tedium on Sylph between the buffalo and tiger itself almost always seeing 2+ groups at them the times I've gone for myself and others. Sure, you could try to skip the buffalo step and buy hides off the AH if available, but some aren't keen on paying 80k+ just to see a pool of WHM seals load.

And what you consider "handing things out" is more of an attempt to cement job identity. Even if one might try to cling to the Manifesto, there's that nagging "But..." that, aside from a gross lack of party buffing spells, accomplishing an actual distinction from WHM does indeed involve fishing up a particular set of gear. In comparison, WHMs can still be decent healers without their own +2 set, it just builds upon the concept instead of being a requirement.

Overall, cycles aren't a problem that's rooted in gear. Equipment may mask the problem, but it's really the short, default durations and no natural growth through leveling that is the issue in contrast to Barspells, that while having a default duration, do indeed grow with Enhancing skill. Abyssea trivializing the leveling process doesn't change that and on some server somewhere you can have a first-job RDM slogging it through leveling and limit breaks where all the spiffy gear isn't just going to be falling into their lap unless they're lucky. You might not care about him, feel he has to earn his stripes, or whatever, but it's basically the difference between working to eventually, maybe have fun with your job and having fun while working to better your job. And I at least hope we've established cycles aren't fun.
#273 Aug 26 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
Im a sick individual, sometimes I do like cycling, I enjoy sitting back and stringing out my numerous buffs, making my group stronger (not demi god strong but at least superior mortal beings.) It only gets boring when you get stuck doing it every time you play. Watching a DD gain nearly 30% in damage by keeping constant haste, and keeping mobs dia'd is awesome to me.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#274LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Aug 26 2011 at 4:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A new RDM at this stage in the game isn't going to be cycling buffs nearly as much as we had to, and who are you to say if it's fun for them or not? I had a blast back in the day casting debuffs and cures while maintaining cycles on everyone; when done correctly, it makes a very noticeable impact on party efficiency, and it was very satisfying, especially when someone actually noticed, which was a good indicator of how knowledgable they were of party dynamics. Only after doing it for a few years did I grow sick of it. Now, they get to cycle with the ****** default durations for a bit, then work their way up to the +2 set and experience the vastly increased efficiency of their cycles, which I can tell you from experience is very satisfying indeed.
#275 Aug 26 2011 at 4:59 AM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Quote:
I don't see what this has to do with anything.

Quote:
You're in such a rush to 'fix' things for these new players that you're not stopping to think that you might be ruining the sense of progress and accomplishment that currently exists.


Gonna lump these together...

The current situation could basically be emulated through WHM with the following: Imagine Cure V and VI don't exist, but through their +2 set they receive +200% cure potency that's not affected by caps. Without this, they lack the tools to be considered a much better healer than RDMs or SCHs. In this situation, WHMs could still maintain a sense of progression like you crave, but people aren't going to be too fond of dealing with one who isn't optimized in situations where not being such is a liability.

The above is a case of lacking tools and trying to fix it through gear instead of addressing a potential problem with the job and its native tools itself. I have no interest in completely eliminating the need for progress and growth through equipment, but instead changing the cliffs currently present in balance to more gradual inclines. For RDM and Enhancing, this means either native duration boosts or some means to not have to cast as often like transferring or mirroring buffs to party members.
#276 Aug 26 2011 at 5:58 AM Rating: Good
***
2,890 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
Basically, Composure fits our "jack of all trades" role, Temper does not.


This speaks volumes about how you look at the job. Frontline and backline RDM is not the distinction that should be made; There are RDMs that are prepared to leverage any of their trades according to the needs of strategy, whether it be meleeing, nuking, buffing, healing, stunning, crowd control, enfeebling, kiting, tanking, pulling, saccing, or any of the various combinations of the above; and RDMs who only bother with the aspects of the job they think are valuable/enjoyable (and curiously enough, tend to look down on other players who choose to utilize the aspects of the job they themselves shun).

As such, every spell/ability fits our 'jack of all trades' role, as they are all useful in various circumstances.

On a related note, I know Saevel likes to paint anyone that disagrees with him/her as a non-RDM that just wants RDM to cycle buffs forever, but the simple fact is that a great RDM has the gear/skill to cover whichever angle will get the job done faster/safer/more efficiently. If you're the type that refuses to cycle buffs when cycling buffs is what your party needs, or just flat-out refuses to come as RDM for that reason, you are a sh*tty RDM. Period.

And furthermore, why is cycling buffs even a problem anymore? Enhancing duration is doubled, drastically reducing the frequency at which you have to cycle; and the old XP format when cycling endlessly was the only way to keep your party going is long dead. The instances in which you'd find yourself cycling are drastically reduced in frequency, duration, and effort, and chances are good that it will be alleviated further with more duration+ gear at the very least. It really just seems to me like you're ******** just to *****, as per usual.


*Cough*

You know you just agreed with everything I've been saying for the past 6+ years.

Quote:
I know Saevel likes to paint anyone that disagrees with him/her as a non-RDM that just wants RDM to cycle buffs forever,

Strawman, I never said anything of the sorts. There IS a group of individuals out there who have zero desire to see RDM do anything other then cycled buffs on them (the players, not the RDMs). They come on here and on the official forums and try to tell us "our place", Shadow is one of these, Cid is another. We've been chasing them off for a long time. I like to use Shadow as a prime example, because he doesn't play RDM. He used to play RDM, gave up and moved to Blue Mage. Ever since his point has been "don't melee on RDM, just cycle buffs, SE should give all the RDM orientated melee buffs to BLU instead". He's said this in various forms over the past couple of years.

Now I'll entertain any discussion or even debate, provided it's rational and even headed. I refuse to entertain trolls and rarely respond to them anymore. Unfortunately Alla doesn't have an Ignore poster option, at least not one that I can find. There is no problem with someone wanting to play RDM using the mage only tools, just as there is no problem with someone wanting to play RDM using the melee only tools. Both would be missing out on the full capabilities but to each his / her own. My beef comes when one or the other rants and raves on how the other is "doing it wrong" and tries to force their play style onto the other. I liken it to the bible thumpers who walk around telling everyone their wrong unless they do what the bible thumper says.

Quote:
but the simple fact is that a great RDM has the gear/skill to cover whichever angle will get the job done faster/safer/more efficiently.

You know, I swear I've said something that sounds a whole lot like this, many times over again. RDM is about White Magic + Black Magic + Melee, it's all three and thus a great RDM will have all three tool sets ready.

Quote:
If you're the type that refuses to cycle buffs when cycling buffs is what your party needs, or just flat-out refuses to come as RDM for that reason, you are a sh*tty RDM. Period.

When has this ~EVER~ come from my fingers? I didn't want to cycle MORE buffs then we already do, as in don't have SE add more to the list. I'd prefer if Accession worked with Haste / Refresh II so I can just get them all out at once. But that not withstanding, I do cycle haste / refresh, not because I like it but because it's needed (or rather was needed).

Quote:
And furthermore, why is cycling buffs even a problem anymore? Enhancing duration is doubled, drastically reducing the frequency at which you have to cycle; and the old XP format when cycling endlessly was the only way to keep your party going is long dead. The instances in which you'd find yourself cycling are drastically reduced in frequency, duration, and effort, and chances are good that it will be alleviated further with more duration+ gear at the very least.

That is a recent development and a greatly appreciated one at that. But it means absolutely nothing if SE just stacks more cycled buffs on top of us. Anytime saved from longer durations is lost from having more buffs to cycle. Them not making Temper a cycled spell is a step in the right direction. Them not making it aoe-able is a sad thing. Potentially they'll give us a JA that aoe's our next self cast buff, we'll just have to wait and see. I'd prefer that or a way to "Aura" our spells so that anyone within range gets the effects, this would virtually cement us a place near the front but also allow us a spot in the back.

Quote:
It really just seems to me like you're ******** just to *****, as per usual.

Ahh and now it really comes out. LoO just can't let the ghost die can it. Why don't you step away from your sock puppet and let everyone know that this is a personal vendetta.


Where do people get this impression that I'm "Melee Onry" on RDM? Seriously I play both sides equally, and in actuality I tend to play the mage side more due to the events I bring my RDM on. I have a full enfeebling / nuking / convert / enhancing build, I have the subs leveled, **** I'm practically plastered to /SCH most of the time. I even have the item for Aquaveil for Accession on blink tanks, had Phalanx II merits until PLD's Phalanx become stronger. I'm for equal utility between all our facets, and right now the one suffering the most is the melee side. Just because some people chose not to utilize it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't valid. It's just as valid as our Healing, Buffing, Nuking, Crowd Control and Enfeebling aspects.

Edited, Aug 26th 2011 12:05pm by saevellakshmi
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#277 Aug 26 2011 at 7:58 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,286 posts
saevellakshmi wrote:
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:

I know Saevel likes to paint anyone that disagrees with him/her as a non-RDM that just wants RDM to cycle buffs forever,

Strawman, I never said anything of the sorts. There IS a group of individuals out there who have zero desire to see RDM do anything other then cycled buffs on them (the players, not the RDMs). They come on here and on the official forums and try to tell us "our place", Shadow is one of these, Cid is another.


Oh really? Because it certainly looks like that is exactly what you've been saying.

saevellakshmi wrote:

And just like I stated before, the ones QQ'ing about it are not the RDM's but the other players who wanted Temper cast on them.


saevellakshmi wrote:
rcd,

You realize your referring to two distinctly separate parts of the "community" right? The first being the older veteran RDM's who want the job to do something other then cycle-bot spam, the second being the non-RDM's or leveled-rdm-for-invites group who see's RDM as WHM-1 and is perfectly fine having another RDM cycle buffs on them. Ultimately this is like listening to the MNK's for info on what RDM should get, their instant response is "more buffs they can put on me". What your seeing on the boards is all the BG'ers and members from other job's forums jump over into the RDM forum in an attempt to create the illusion of negative feedback, they want SE to change it to other-targetable so RDM be forced to buff those posters. Seeing as SE's been tracking this discussion for quite some time, I don't see them being fooled by such tactics.
____________________________
Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#278 Aug 26 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
***
3,059 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Farm at off-peak times,

I'll just inform my boss that I can't make it to work today because I need to farm.
____________________________
"And I'm prepared to passionately argue this point until nothing makes sense anymore. If that doesn't work, then the hours upon hours of whining will." -Red Mage Statscowski

Saggo of Garuda Lakshmi
#279LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Aug 26 2011 at 12:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ..and if I agreed with everything you've been saying in that post, why did you find it necessary to type out an essay disagreeing with said post? Because you're ******** for the sake of ********* as per usual.
#280 Aug 26 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Quote:
..I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst analogies I've ever had the misfortune of reading. You need to realize that casting enhancing magic on party members, while an important part of the job; is only one aspect of the job. What's wrong with increasing it through gear, like every other aspect of the job? Inventory woes and macro laziness are not valid excuses, ever. Besides, if you look at WHM+2, it's less about cure potency than it is about shoring up things that are important to the job that could use a boost, like Regen, Auspice, MP recovery, Status cures, and Barspells; oddly enough, RDM+2 does precisely the same thing by increasing enhancing duration.


Yet I don't see Composure helping our nuking or healing. Both examples emphasize a gear set tailored for a specific purpose that didn't exist without it, yes, but the point I was trying to make was WHMs aren't so reliant on a specific set for something that should be native if SE is trying to pimp the RDM class as a buffer.

Conveniently omit my second paragraph if you wish, but I have no problem with gear enhancing a job's aspects when it's not a requirement to even introduce it as an aspect, hence why I called needing a +2 set a lesser variant of the CDC issue. WHM, however, doesn't need their set or an empyrean/relic/mythic weapon to be a decent WHM. It helps, sure, but I'm not exactly seeing alternatives for RDMs and buff durations for everyone but themselves, nor do I want to see a slew of items only for the purpose of extending durations (which would probably include WHM and SCH, thus defeating the purpose of creating a niche). WHM was just fortunate enough to receive native tools to emphasize their position and thus not absolutely need specific gear. RDM hasn't been so lucky.

Overall, I wish certain people would stuff that "pride" in accomplishment or grossly minimizing the hurdles players not themselves can experience due to both RL and in-game conditions. Setting personal goals is fine, especially in the interest of bettering of your character. The problems arise when said people think they're superior because they did something first or someone bringing up issue is just whining just because they happened to put up with it. They can play the, "Oh, you're just trying to be a bleeding heart, martyr, white knight, moral ***!" or whatever card if they want, but just because a problem might not be a problem to them doesn't mean it isn't a problem. So, if it isn't obvious yet, fixing RDM's problems solely through gear isn't a solution, it's a band-aid.
#281LyltiaofLakshmi, Posted: Aug 26 2011 at 2:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seriha, you can keep saying the same thing over and over, but it doesn't make it any less wrong. Comparing RDM buff durations to WHM cures is just stupid. RDM doesn't need extended durations to be serviceable any more than WHM needs cure potency to be serviceable; but both can be enhanced through gear.
#282 Aug 26 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Quote:
The difference is, you don't have WHMs complaining endlessly that they should get a Cure Potency +50% trait. They seem to be just fine with acquiring gear to increase their effectiveness, why do you have such a major problem with it?


You can pretty much call the higher tier cures their potency traits. At 75, 20% cure potency wasn't too difficult for WHMs to get, with more if you were willing to fiddle with the Medicine Ring latent. Maybe a bit expensive when Noble's was first introduced, but it and Shining Cloth eventually crept down. Meanwhile, even their +1 head goes toward that purpose, as well as some accessories both exclusive and not. Correlating to RDM, our +1 feet and the cape aren't really a game changer, nor does a near-6 minute Haste stand out as much as an 1100+ cure (especially in dispel/overwrite-happy situations).

I'm not burnishing anything about saying cycles suck, though, and their overall effect on the job's ability to branch out is indeed a consequence. I'm not the only person here who hates cycles. I'm not the only one who understands that if SE were to pursue the Manifesto in earnest, more cycles will be misery without some universal attention to duration and application methods. I'll "think of the children" as much as I want, thanks. Some of 'em might even appreciate it.
#283 Aug 26 2011 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
***
2,890 posts
Quote:
I'm not burnishing anything about saying cycles suck, though, and their overall effect on the job's ability to branch out is indeed a consequence. I'm not the only person here who hates cycles. I'm not the only one who understands that if SE were to pursue the Manifesto in earnest, more cycles will be misery without some universal attention to duration and application methods. I'll "think of the children" as much as I want, thanks. Some of 'em might even appreciate it.


This is what I've been saying. At 75 cycles sucked, at 90 with full AF+2 and accessory (not an easy task by any means) their not bad at all. Now lets talk at 99, if SE maintains duration as is yet adds three or four new buffs that need to be cycled, all that extra time saved is lost and we're back to the exact same game play as we had at 75. The one that burned so many RDM's out and ended up with the vast majority of people using the job to get invites. And I'm serious about that, inside the game I meet a hardcore RDM about as often as I meet a hardcore BRD. This forum represents a minority of the games players, the minority who's smart enough to actually look stuff up.

What I find even funnier is that for a couple of years now the community has ignored MeleeRDM discussions in general, even though SE said they'd do something to bring give RDM more reasons / options up front. Then the moment SE starts to seriously put effort into it everyone freaks out.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#284 Aug 27 2011 at 12:03 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,770 posts
saevellakshmi wrote:

What I find even funnier is that for a couple of years now the community has ignored MeleeRDM discussions in general, even though SE said they'd do something to bring give RDM more reasons / options up front. Then the moment SE starts to seriously put effort into it everyone freaks out.


What effort are you talking about? Please don't tell me your so naive that you think Temper and a few minor buffs are clues to anything game changing. The longer duration of buffs isn't exactly a melee upgrade either. The reason being it applies to all facets of RDM including more time to heal and other mage duties. Show me some real proof by SE like gear and no AF3 +2 doesn't do **** for us except for the above mentioned duration boost which I already pointed out. All you have are hunches based on delusions of grandeur. I explained to you before that the balance of back-line jobs is already terribly unbalanced. You seriously think that SE would take steps to bring RDM to the front line in any capacity? How many years has it been seriously?

There is always hope Saevell. As FFXI continues to lose subscribers like with their latest stunt with billing, maybe they'll listen to the people still left. If RDM is EVER accepted to the front lines in any hybrid capacity(IE requested, like a BRD used to be requested), I have no doubt whatsoever that the game will be so changed that ALL mages and jobs will be on the front line just like an offline FF game. I'm sorry I had to shatter your dreams, but it's not healthy in live in a fantasy world.

I highly doubt you'll even respond to me at this point. You can say what you want about me, but I'm debating facts here. All you have is wishful thinking. Show me a shred of proof. Proof= real changes, not your typical JP DEV who laughs after each question and is so vague, there are 1,000 possibilities to what the guy was saying in the first place. You want to run your mouth, fine... prove what you claim for once.
#285 Aug 27 2011 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
**
654 posts
You want him to prove...the future?
#286 Aug 27 2011 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
**
824 posts
I can confirm that the future exists.

There are hoverboards, and Tab soda.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#287 Aug 27 2011 at 2:07 AM Rating: Good
**
654 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
I can confirm that the future exists.

There are hoverboards, and Tab soda.


2012
#288 Aug 27 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,770 posts
That's essentially what he is saying by making such claims. I personally won't pretend to know what will happen, but I do know that there are more variables besides our one class. Honestly what he is arguing is nothing but a pipe dream, however my own personal bias might be blocking my judgment. RDM has been far too versatile to nail down to one single role. Yet my thought process only considers what your typical RDM does, not the minority. Lastly I think it's important to say that while I gave up on RDM in a hybrid role(cuz of BLU) that doesn't mean I want the job to change for what I use it now. For RDM's to be accepted on the front lines in any capacity, SE will have to re-balance our mage role in the backline which will cause resentment with a lot of RDM's now. Those are just a few of the reasons why I'm against a hybrid role upgrade. I understand wanting to do something different though, that's why there are more jobs to play. The logic of some RDM's is that they want to hybrid on RDM when other jobs already do it. Well I'd like to be a master NIN DD like the class is designed in FF lore, but I'm stuck being a pseudo DD and tank. The point is that SE must have balance to a MMO and unlike an offline rpg, some roles get adjusted for the worse.

#289 Aug 27 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
why would they have to rebalance the mage side? News flash you can not be a good melee and mage at the same time, the two are essentially in conflict with each other. You can swing a sword well, or cast well, mixing the two ends up diminishing your value.

Comparing to BLU is stupid too, BLU is a strong DD because of their SPELLS. There Melee damage is pretty pathetic. The similarties with the jobs stop at both using swords and both using MP. Otherthan that the jobs provide damage in 2 completely different ways on the front line.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 3:49pm by rdmcandie
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#290 Aug 27 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
9,047 posts
So after reading this last batch of posts, let me get this straight...

1. After complaining about being stuck in cycles, people want spells to be cast on others in order to cast cycles now that we no longer have cycles?

2. Somehow melee buffs aren't melee buffs because they aren't ideal and/or perfect?

3. Composure is a toy?

4. Most RDMs don't want to melee even though melee is the main thing that differentiates that class from other class, say SCH?

I seriously don't understand the vast majority of you "RDM's". I honestly believe only a few of you actually get it. Fortunately, I've seen progress throughout the years.

Personally, the proc thing kind of screwed over RDM, but at the cost of allowing me to actually play a RDM and not some bootleg WHM or BLM. If I'm in a group environment, people aren't as critical of my game play.

I absolutely love composure and how it only affects the caster... eff everyone else. That's what a brd and cor is for. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind having some special RDM buffs, but I prefer having a clear "role". If SE wants to make RDM the special "buffer" class, then I want everything. On the other hand, I don't want to be "the enfeebler" or "Jack of All Trades" doing buff cycles of 1 or 2 spells. It's either all or nothing in my opinion.



*. I'm actually surprised that no one mentioned Addle being given to WHM.
____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#291 Aug 27 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
4,770 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
why would they have to rebalance the mage side? News flash you can not be a good melee and mage at the same time, the two are essentially in conflict with each other. You can swing a sword well, or cast well, mixing the two ends up diminishing your value.

Comparing to BLU is stupid too, BLU is a strong DD because of their SPELLS. There Melee damage is pretty pathetic. The similarties with the jobs stop at both using swords and both using MP. Otherthan that the jobs provide damage in 2 completely different ways on the front line.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 3:49pm by rdmcandie


Because no job in the entire game can be that powerful. I realize you can't be a good mage and a melee hybrid at the same time now, but it's our melee aspect that needs the most work. Those that prefer to be competent mages will be turned off to the buffs and gear that will only complement that particular style. Either way, you can't be good at both because it causes imbalance. Look at BLU's backline abilities if you still can't comprehend this. All of their magical elemental spells basically suck compared to their physical spells. Sure a few are neat and MP efficient, but 90% of them suck and don't offer the back line role anything. The job must slant to a certain balance. If RDM were to be buffed on the front line side on purpose, our magical side would fall behind the curve(compared to other mages). This doesn't apply to your point. Because I think your point is more in line with gear and food choices. IE.. need a staff for mage duties and a sword and shield for melee. I'm reminded back when SCH got their first buff after being released. The job was terrible prior to this.Still this will probably go on to be the largest back line buff in the history of FFXI. If RDM is to transition to the front line, a similar buff will happen to us. When that happens, we'll fall behind in our mage updates and those that prefer the back line will lose their job.

As for BLU melee, I think you played with too many noobs. I've been parsing well on BLU's melee side since the lv 75 cap. Sure you need spells to compete against real DD's, but never underestimate BLU's melee skills especially when it's low man content(which happens a lot) and those other DD's aren't buffed to kingdom come with brd, cor, or broken Abby buffs
#292 Aug 28 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
Powerfull? Seriously?

Sure on paper a job that can melee well and mage well looks powerful, but RDM can not benefit from both arts at the same time, it is limited to either or. Doing both would drastically cut down on the impact of either art.

This is why I said long ago (shortly after SCH introduced the Arts swap) that RDM should have an ability that lets you swap between melee and mage mode, with obvious buffs and debuffs in specific areas. SE kind of attempted this with composure, but with RDM capping recast alone the effective "nerf" to casting is pretty much unnoticeable.

But RDM getting a huge melee buff won't break the job, because you can't really effectively use melee and magic at the same time, and unlike BLU we don't have the secondary tools to even support the notion.

BLU and RDM are not the same, BLU is designed around spell spamming and auto attacking, RDM is designed to apply constant melee OR cast spells. The way that RDM works prevents the combining of the two because of several reasons, most importantly cast lock. A BLU can drop a 4K spell in a secnd and a half, it takes RDM 4-5 seconds to drop a 2K spell. The job would be perfectly fine in balance if SE buffed the tits out of it.

Quote:
but never underestimate BLU's melee skills especially when it's low man content(which happens a lot) and those other DD's aren't buffed to kingdom come with brd, cor, or broken Abby buffs


BLUs damage comes from its spells, you don't invite a BLU because of its melee ability, you invite one because the can dump an MP pool and clear 20K of a mobs HP bar, while blood tanking it. BLU's melee ability is about as good as a RDM, outside of abyssea RDM pulls ahead because of Enspells. I have never been out parsed by a BLU in melee damage (in total damage yes, but that is because they kill with spells) and I have played with every level of BLU ****** as full AF to balls to the wall BLU's.

The jobs is designed with spell damage as a priority with melee supplementing. RDM is either a melee DD, or a mage (DD) not both. BLU is married to casting spells, where in order for RDM to melee (DD) efficiently it stops casting pretty much entirely.

But humor me, how is RDM going to become super powerful?

____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#293 Aug 29 2011 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
***
1,569 posts
rdmcandie wrote:
News flash you can not be a good melee and mage at the same time, the two are essentially in conflict with each other.
The fact we can switch gear mid-combat suggests otherwise. I don't agree with shadow, but I do know where his claim is coming from.
____________________________
Products of boredom: 1 2 3 4 5
Besieged
Hopes for FFXIV: Fencer | Red Mage
#294 Aug 29 2011 at 2:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Just gonna quote myself from the OB after tinkering some on the test server:

Quote:
Pain not having windowed mode on the Test Server...

Anyway, preliminary findings on Temper: Costs 36 MP, is called Multi-Strikes in the buff window, and lasts 3 minutes by default, which can be extended by Composure and such. It stacks with Enspells just fine. I went to Grauberg(A) to whack on some crabs with regen atmas and I feel like the DA rate is somewhere between 5 and 10 percent. Took about 60 hits to kill a crab, and basically had to manually count DAs as they happened, averaging around 5 per fight. I was using Flat Blade for a few of my later crabs to see if the DA would trigger on WS and I think it did, but I also may've been hit at the same time. Sub used at the time was /NIN single-wielding one of my Shamshirs with no DA gear on. Tried a few with my DA Khanda, Atheling, and Brutal and while I naturally swung more, I couldn't tell you if Temper was a factor.

Personally was hoping more for 10-15%, but maybe if we can get some more testimonials floating around we can find out I was either having bad luck or it's more in the 5-10% range.
#295 Aug 29 2011 at 5:05 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
Ruisu wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
News flash you can not be a good melee and mage at the same time, the two are essentially in conflict with each other.
The fact we can switch gear mid-combat suggests otherwise. I don't agree with shadow, but I do know where his claim is coming from.


Yes we can sap gear, but the issue is casting times, and repetitions. I have said it many times, RDM is a decent DD when played in a DD role. This means minimalistic casting. By mixing the two arts RDM can do to much you end up destroying the ability to preform both.
____________________________
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.

#296 Aug 29 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,345 posts
It just came to mind, but with the Test Server allowing you to take your pick at any piece of gear, this might be the prime time to do some REAL testing of RDM's melee performance with peak methods.

Ain't going to be a better way to see it through SE's eyes and settle issues as to exactly what's going on in their heads and see what they're thinking of giving us such weak buffs generally.

I can't get in the game until at least after September due to billing issues and a lack of money, might be until October at least. Is anyone game for trying this?
#297 Aug 29 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
Avatar
*****
10,664 posts
Can't exactly pick dream gear, but then again, the distribution moogles are/were kinda buggy, so I might've missed some options. If it's something you can store on a slip, you can get it, as well as various tools like shihei or COR cards. Lack of extended macros could arguably hurt performances, too.

Edited, Aug 29th 2011 7:15pm by Seriha
#298 Aug 29 2011 at 5:17 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
****
4,345 posts
Hmm. Rats.

Cause the Test server would have been optimum to test specific things in the game like that and dispel rumors or preconceptions... for ANYTHING, honestly.

Go in, test a build/make to check the viability of it, and upon confirmation, chart your genuine game effort to get the gear for your live account.
#299 Aug 29 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Or just look up the stats and do some math?
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#300 Aug 29 2011 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
****
4,345 posts
LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Or just look up the stats and do some math?



Math equates nothing for human judgement or error. Using it as your sole method of data gathering treats your players like robots which is both inaccurate and just plain terrible behavior.

Actual testing, especially in the case of Red Mage takes testing beyond raw math data and gives back the whole picture.

Was it wise for RDM to be casting X Spell vs Bursting Y spell or just meleeing?

How likely is it for RDM to commit to WSing at the correct time?

There is a wealth of data that cannot be made simply by punching numbers into a spreadsheet, and the fact that people have taken the game down to that has, frankly, ruined a great deal of fun for me in the genera as a whole.

Let's take another popular genera, like MOBA's, and make a rough Analogy.

Breaking this game down to the spreadsheet has essentially posted all the possible scoreboards in every MOBA fight possible. All you have to do is punch in the right combination of characters with 'insert x gear' in it and your fight outcome is made up for you.

You don't even need to play. Just enjoy your stat sheet and move on.

That's how FFXI is beginning to feel to me. There's no reason to go out and do anything when the effort is weighed, measured, and at it's worst, judged before it's even come to my mind as an idea to do.

What's the point?

At least when you physically do a test like I recommended, the feedback data is more of a scoreboard rather than a spreadsheet.
#301 Aug 29 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
**
824 posts
Quote:
There is a wealth of data that cannot be made simply by punching numbers into a spreadsheet, and the fact that people have taken the game down to that has, frankly, ruined a great deal of fun for me in the genera as a whole.


I'm not saying that the sort of test you propose is entirely useless; just that it's useless for determining if a piece of gear is better or worse than another in terms of general performance. It would take hours and hours of killing things and writing down the results to come to the exact same conclusions as plugging stats into a formula would give you.

After you have that information is when you start considering strategy, etc. Good example: Rancor Collar.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 16 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (16)