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#77 Jul 18 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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RDM WS is the same as every other job's WS, you stack stats in the appropriate mannor. We have access to strong swords but no strong sword WS (sans Emp). We have access to two strong dagger WS but no strong daggers to go with them (@90). We have plenty of MAB, INT, MND and nuking gear, yet the WS that could benefit the most from it we don't have access to. For the WS's we do have access to we don't strong STR / DEX / Attack / Acc gear available to us in comparison to what something like DNC / BLU / BRD / THF get. We're not even in the same sport, much less the same league as WAR / DRK / DRG / SAM / MNK / PUP. I've pimped Death Blossom out as much as possible, same with Evisceration. Gear we should be on, like Alcide (MNK THF BST RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC) we're not. And thus we're stuck using level 75 era gear while the rest of the jobs have moved on to level 90 era super gear. Seriously if we just had access to Sang Blade then this would largely be a moot point, we would TP in haste gear and WS in our nuking set, problem solved.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#78 Jul 18 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
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We got absolutely nothing for our melee side from 75 to 90, the sole exception is CDC and only cause SE decided to stick us on the sword with PLD and WAR, they could of just as easily stuck us on the dagger and we'd be really screwed.


Absolutely nothing? So I guess reducing buff cycles on party members by half doesn't help your melee DoT at all, eh... Zelus Tiara doesn't make it (much) easier to hit gear haste cap... How about Atheling Mantle, pretty sure that's the go-to back piece for just about every DD, and RDM's on it... I seem to recall a Hachimaki with a **** ton of accuracy and sword skill... not to mention a variety of 75+ accessories like +7 rings, +3 earrings... more Enhancing skill to buff enspells... I could go on.

Absolutely nothing? Only you're intentionally ignoring things to support your preconceived conclusions.

Also, the way you make it sound, SE somehow insulted RDM by giving it access to Almace? I am confused by this, and you're not the first person to allude to it either. Explain.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#79 Jul 18 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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except I out WS my pretty well built SAng set up using 75 era ATK+ gear and evis, in and out of abyssea. SAngblade is good for brews, good in solo farms, thats about it, its hardly the write home paycheck we need as a WS.

Seriously Hyrist, gear for Attack thats it. In anything where you see **** WS's you are probably better off "mageing" it.
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#80 Jul 18 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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Seriously if we just had access to Sang Blade then this would largely be a moot point, we would TP in haste gear and WS in our nuking set, problem solved.


One grace in this, as I see it, is what they talked about on Dark Knight.

Magic Weaponskills as they stand right now are laughable, but it seems as if they're going to be changing that if they're pushing this "Magical WS Damage" aspect for them.

So there is a (slim) chance of them making WS adjustments on our end as well.

But yea, I rolled my eyes at not having native Sanguine Blade.
#81 Jul 18 2011 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Sav, what's your take on this? Starfox had a similar approach in his STR building but I'm trying to figure out the balance specifically for a 75 Evisceration set. In the end I'm wondering if it's worth going out and grabbing a few choice pieces over what I have (Palwhan's feet over Ogres+1, contemplating turning ACP body into a mock Hauby, debating camping the Dobsonflys or grabbing the AKD hat for WS, etc.
Also, worth taking the hit on Dex on Evisceration to use Alky's?


Depends on the WS, but generally speaking we are a very low attack job, borderline 1.0 Ratio vs LV 95+ mobs like low and that is a place you never want to be. I've found +attack to work better then +DEX / STR on WS's like Evis / Vorpal / DeathBlossom. It gets a bit different with CDC, about 1 DEX to 3 attack. I'm currently building a CDC WS set but only after I'm finished with BLU as I should have a lv 85 Almace soonish.

And no for Evis / DCD don't use Alky's, but for Vorpal / DB their great. I'd hate to default back to Tarasque Mitts +1 (12 attack) but unless I find some nice +DEX piece stashed somewhere then that's what I'll have to use on RDM. Ogre +1 are for DB, but the new Rager Ledelsons (12 Attack 10 Acc) are a good choice for Evis / Vorpal / CDC, And Lithe Boots look good for CDC (6 DEX). I'll also use the +Sword skill head, I might make a MKD head for CDC, not sure yet. For Body you have good ole trusty AJ, its 18 attack 3 acc, heard to beat for a job as attack deprived as we are. I've tried ACP mini-hauby and I found that the AJ did more for DB / Evis / Vorpal. Legs are tumbler trunks for 18 attack and 5 DEX, really hard to heat that. Neck / Waist are the WS torques / belts, nearly impossible for other jobs to beat them, much less us. back is Atheling Mantle, one of the few new super DD pieces we can wear. Rings are good ole trusty Rajas + either the Atk +7 Acc +3 one, or a DEX+5 one for CDC. Earrings are ole Suppa / Brutal. That should just about cover it.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#82 Jul 18 2011 at 4:32 PM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
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Seriously if we just had access to Sang Blade then this would largely be a moot point, we would TP in haste gear and WS in our nuking set, problem solved.


One grace in this, as I see it, is what they talked about on Dark Knight.

Magic Weaponskills as they stand right now are laughable, but it seems as if they're going to be changing that if they're pushing this "Magical WS Damage" aspect for them.

So there is a (slim) chance of them making WS adjustments on our end as well.

But yea, I rolled my eyes at not having native Sanguine Blade.


Yeah it was kinda a no-brainer. The WS screams RDM, its not crazy high damage but has an amazing bonus effect of keeping you alive. That and I can get 1100+ on it with BLU/NIN and no special atma's or MAB sword(RR/VV/Apoc) + Isador / STR Shamshir+2. RDM would be able to push much higher then that with all nuke gear we have. Literally Sang blade is a tier IV nuke in a WS.

And I'm loling hard at the idea of "shortening out cycles". How out of fckign touch with the game are you? Did anyone miss the point that we don't do cycles anymore cause ... their simply not needed. Now I love having a 11min haste and a crazy long enspell / phalanx / refresh, self buffing is awesome. But honest, its been almost three months since I last was needed to cast Refresh II / Haste / Phalanx II or well anything. It's just not needed. We're looking at doing VWNM's and those are crazy hard, but again SE screwed us by making they tier III / IV's resistant to basically everything. That and their drop rates are so bad that it makes salvage look generous.
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#83 Jul 18 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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And I'm loling hard at the idea of "shortening out cycles". How out of fckign touch with the game are you? Did anyone miss the point that we don't do cycles anymore cause ... their simply not needed. Now I love having a 11min haste and a crazy long enspell / phalanx / refresh, self buffing is awesome. But honest, its been almost three months since I last was needed to cast Refresh II / Haste / Phalanx II or well anything. It's just not needed


Well we can just extend that to the logical conclusion and say RDM isn't needed at the moment, period... but as I stated above, anyone who judges a job by what it offers to Abyssea is rather shortsighted. There will come a time in the near future where it will matter, count on it.

Anybody with any kind of sense realized long ago that main reason RDM couldn't keep up with melee DoT in standard PTs was because of their heavy casting load, not because of gear limitations. Lol right back at ya, son.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#84 Jul 18 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Also, the way you make it sound, SE somehow insulted RDM by giving it access to Almace? I am confused by this, and you're not the first person to allude to it either. Explain.


Probably the same reason the majority rolled our eyes at Sagasinger.

Giving us toys without pourpose is frustrating due to the stigma surrounding our melee aspects. Without a reason, a utility, to take the front lines with these prized posession, the items get looked at as just trophies to groups and we get tossed in bottom priority for all of it.

Makes it a touch more frustrating in each step in trying to push that performance. (And I like to push what I can do no matter what it is.)

Think how more desirable Sagasinger would be if it allowed us to rip high tier buffs of of difficult NMs, and we had a Utility that would allow us to actually be more useful in the front lines with it?

I probably would still not use it against Voidwatch NMs, but I could imagine quite nice to use against quite a few differn't Abyssean NMs.

And who knows, maybe they'll add more NMs that make it worthwhile to use the weapon on.

But aside from that... there's really no tie in to get these things.
#85 Jul 18 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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Giving us toys without pourpose is frustrating due to the stigma surrounding our melee aspects. Without a reason, a utility, to take the front lines with these prized posession, the items get looked at as just trophies to groups and we get tossed in bottom priority for all of it.


The reason is to deal damage, and lots of it.. what more do you need? Our magical utility is unaffected by range, so it's not like you lose out by being in melee range, the damage is the added utility.

...this is also the part where i mention Enspell II, but stop because i'm laughing too hard, also maybe crying a little, who knows.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#86 Jul 18 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
The reason SE is hesitant, is clearly for one reason, they have no idea what direction to push RDM in. Ever faction of the RDM player base is screaming for something different,some want enhancing, some enfeebling, some nuking, some healing, some melee. SE has to choose carefully which to buff, because if they buff them all you will see groups of RDM and nothing but RDM.
Can you please stop bringing up that already-debunked claim into the conversation? As I said, the hybrid apocalypse is a myth.
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#87 Jul 18 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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You say it's fair for a Whm to out DD us, RDD, because they have to sacrifice so much to do so, but let me ask you this?

Why don't we have the ability to sacrifice our MP to DD as well?

If a whm can out DD us by sacrificing a lot of it's MP then where is our retardedly expensive enspell then to act the same in return?

Yes, whm has to sacrifice convert and refresh to DD, but at the same time on the list of jobs you would invite to DD Rdm is pretty much lower then Whm if both are geared well.

It's like saying that Rangers back in 2004 should of out DDed everyone because they had to "pay" for their damage.

That's really only ultimately fair if everyone else has the same opportunity to sacrifice something to increase their damage as well.
#88 Jul 18 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Ruisu wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
The reason SE is hesitant, is clearly for one reason, they have no idea what direction to push RDM in. Ever faction of the RDM player base is screaming for something different,some want enhancing, some enfeebling, some nuking, some healing, some melee. SE has to choose carefully which to buff, because if they buff them all you will see groups of RDM and nothing but RDM.
Can you please stop bringing up that already-debunked claim into the conversation? As I said, the hybrid apocalypse is a myth.



Ya cus RDM/SCHx5 RDM/DRK couldn't kill Byakko every 2 hours......(@75 Cap)
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#89 Jul 18 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Ya cus RDM/SCHx5 RDM/DRK couldn't kill Byakko every 2 hours......(@75 Cap)


Haha yeah I remember doing this, was a lot of fun!
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#90 Jul 18 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Decent
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
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Ya cus RDM/SCHx5 RDM/DRK couldn't kill Byakko every 2 hours......(@75 Cap)


Haha yeah I remember doing this, was a lot of fun!


ya and was when kitty pants were like 8mil on drop + 2 mil for the fight (+2mil if the guy didnt have a pop)
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#91 Jul 18 2011 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Neck / Waist are the WS torques / belts, nearly impossible for other jobs to beat them, much less us.
Anguinus Belt beats the Ele. Belt by a margin, especially since we're att deprived.
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#92 Jul 18 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Doesn't the Cuchulain's Belt beat that though except for when we need the accuracy?
#93 Jul 18 2011 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
Doesn't the Cuchulain's Belt beat that though except for when we need the accuracy?
CDC maybe, not really on Evis, it's about even.
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#94 Jul 19 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Anguinus_Belt

If we needed the accuracy then yeah I'd agree, but 15 attack 1 DA vs 0.1 fTP, kinda depends. 3.45 fTP vs 3.35 comes out to 2.98% difference. I can see 15 attack and 1 DA doing that considering how low our attack is at. If your single wielding then its a 4.2% difference, belt would probably beat out 15 attack 1 DA then.

I've had my eyeball on that belt for awhile, might look to getting it, but I had planned on getting the Cuch belt once I had CDC. Inside abyssea though I'd want to stay with attack / fTP belt because your going to have so much DEX that 6 more isn't gonna add much vs a percentage like attack / fTP.




Edited, Jul 19th 2011 3:55pm by saevellakshmi
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RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#95 Jul 19 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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The DA is easy enough to calculate. +1% chance to add +1 fTP per hand which averages about a +.02 fTP increase while dual wielding if my math is correct.

Looks like the rate down trolls are back, time for a round of green.
#96 Jul 19 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
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For Gorget/Belts I assume really Soil/Snow covers most of our current needs?
#97 Jul 19 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Anguinus_Belt

If we needed the accuracy then yeah I'd agree, but 15 attack 1 DA vs 0.1 fTP, kinda depends. 3.45 fTP vs 3.35 comes out to 2.98% difference. I can see 15 attack and 1 DA doing that considering how low our attack is at. If your single wielding then its a 4.2% difference, belt would probably beat out 15 attack 1 DA then.
I was just looking at dual-wielding when I figured Anguinus was better, really.
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#98 Jul 20 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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*looks at OP. Skims entire thread*

Looks like I haven't missed anything. Good thing I told myself to level WAR and PLD.
#99 Jul 20 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Default
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saevellakshmi wrote:

The big feeling I get from SE is their afraid of enabling another Avesta. Of giving the job anything that could possibly make it stronger in any sense, out of fear that someone will find a way to abuse it to solo super NM's. And until this fear is removed, RDM will never ever ~ever~ get anything of substance. Avesta did some amazing things, but no single player hurt the job more then he did.


Why would they care at this point in the game? SE has tried to make things more and more casual. It's no longer an issue to solo things. BLU and NIN can solo a lot of the NM's in Abyssea, why is that allowed and not nerfed if SE is worried about extreme soloers? I think your mind is stuck in the past when RDM's served a real purpose, not like now.
#100 Jul 20 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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What I see as a 'wtf' moment is if THF and BLU can both be given utilities that make their relatively low TP damage effect into more useful contributions, why can they not do so for Red Mage to encourage more availability for their martial side?
#101 Jul 20 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Neither of those jobs are invited for DMG, they are invited to (THF) Tank and/or TH (proc Blue), (BLU) to Proc Yellow.

Thats it, they are no more useful then RDM, if BLU didn't have its own unique procs, it would be just as useless to people, If THF didn't have THF or the ability to TH, then it would not be used over DNC, or NIN as the preferred Evade tank.
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