Why does an RDM cap Ice Magic merits?Follow

For your first point, I really don't know anymore. As much as the subject of the debate has bounced around, I've seriously lost track.

For your second point, that's not true at all. When I play any of my jobs, I aim for the norm at first, then tailor it to my personal play style if that in any way deviates from the "standard". Rarely do I ever have to deviate from the standard though just because of how solid that standard has come to be due to all the testing that people have done to come to that conclusion. However, should I go to a forum and say that I do "this" as opposed to "that", I'm going to bring evidence to support why I choose to go with my choice rather than the standard. I'm going to want to say why I choose to go with what I want rather than just say that I go with what I do and leave it at that.

That's why a lot of people, like RCD, have been "asking" for you to support your claims with numbers, because then maybe they can see why you believe what you do, and, if it's logical and reasonable, it might sway them, and if there's a mistake, they can point it out and perhaps sway you. In my opinion, having tangible evidence that you can lay out for people is the best way to go about a debate of any kind, and in a situation where someone is bringing forth something new, then the burden of proof lies on them to support their claims.

So in other words, the only reason you've been posting is to bait people into questioning the motives behind what appears to be a subpar playstyle so that you can post essays detailing how stupid they are for questioning you, while bragging about what an individual and outside-the-box thinker you are.

Sounds rather trollish to me.

I'll have to reparse, but if you're talking capped out accuracy, I do beleive there was old data suggesting that Ice Spikes goes as far as 45% on cap. I forget where though so until I've got an accurate parser and do some data.

The biggest problem with gathering accurate data on Ice Spikes is that the effect of it landing is hidden. You don't know it's landed until the first time it procs the paralyze effect, so there's no way to adequately guess how often it is actually paralyzing.

And no, player tests don't work out too well in this case cause SE has been known to screw with the game mechanics in PVP to some degree. (might give a good base to guess though.)

But there are a lot of boasts trying to say that Ice Spikes is more potent than Paralyze II. And even I do have to state that Ice Spikes seems much more potent than 15% on average.

If you want I can hop into ballista and try to confirm it on a weekend, but likely not this one.

Swapping attribute gear takes about .1 seconds.
Swapping attribute merits takes about 1-2 days.

Attribute gear (MND, INT, STR, etc) is readily swappable...
It's fairly stupid to not take advantage of that kind of accessibility.

Attribute merits (MND, INT, STR, etc), on the other hand, should be applied with a "fulltime" philosophy.

Merits are broader and more relaxed:
I personally merited 5/5 VIT.
I have survivability merits, cuz I can always equip more DD if need be.

Some people merit 5/5 STR.
They have DD merits, cuz they can always equip more survivability if need be.

Gear isn't broad nor relaxed.
If you're casting a MND spell and not wearing all the MND gear you possibly can, you're dumb.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 2:08am by IcookPizza

I was trying to cover frontline and backline in one sentence.

I had about 14 free slots (out of 16) to "possibly" gear MND when backline, about 10-12 free slots when DD meleeing, and about 6-8 free slots when pdt-soloing.

I know I'm getting those numbers wrong (lol) but you get what I mean.

I guess the Captain-Obviousy-thing I was trying to say the first time was

Ya but i wouldn't spend an hour configuring a melee XML built around 2 spells who's potency doesn't really scale well. In the end it doesn't make any real quantifiable difference.


(also just to note since im not a big editor of stuff ive already written after its been replied to: It is not 45 attack rounds, it is 15 attack rounds over 45 seconds, which is still a long time.)

In the end its not really worth my time to write extensive macros for a marginal decrease in damage received, its not optimal, but really not worth the effort. Ill concede you would have a longer life expectancy, although marginally. Fast Cast gear works for me as it gives up to a 3% increase to my damage, and thus kills mobs 3% faster, and in the end by rights gives me 3% increase to survivability.

But im not going to lie technically precasting/midcasting/endcasting proper sets is better, but for personal time efficiency, I can't be assed. =) Although I still wouldn't say its dumb not to, it is a colossal waste of time vs reward for something that is niche. it is more efficient to do it, but certainly is not dumb.

What is dumb is stamping your feet arguing that it is wrong, offering nothing to support why or why not, then proceeding to tell everyone that they are dumb because your way is obviously best because you have a BRD that sings wicked buffs like Madrigal and Minuet over March and um...March. Then claim that discredits your downfalls as a RDM, even though everything you claim is better because you have a BRD, is still not as good as it can be, with a BRD. That is dumb.

Well no sh*t Sherlock. Carnage Elegy alone is better than a fully merited Slow II with capped dMND. That doesn't change the fact that you're still dumb for not making use of MND gear.

I still want to hear how much +MND you're using when you cast Slow II.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:53pm by cidbahamut

So I assume because you use gain mind you have a macro that swaps in max enhancing skill, actually no you probably don't considering your position on at least swapping head and body on all casts for fast cast items.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:02am by rdmcandie

Speaking of LSD.

you should smoke a bunch of weed.

Lakshmi.

*baps Jlejeune*

Dude!

*passes a 'bowl' over to him.*

Dude...

Free your MIND!

People, can't you see that this no different than the anti-melee argument back in the day where people argued that if you didn't cast every single spell with staffs, then you were gimp. Swapping out to staffs would cause you to lose TP. So therefore melee is stupid. If you're fighting anything to where the staff bonuses actually matter, then you probably aren't meleeing.



How does that make me dumb? If your primary concern is stroking your epeen on how much MND you can stack as opposed to the effect of slow on the mob, then yes, you're absolutely correct. You said yourself, that elegy alone is better than any merited slow II with mnd gear. Sooooooooo with such a bonus, dMND isn't any longer an issue for me and what I'm doing, if you're looking at the effect of slow of the mob. If it got to the point where that additional dMND mattered, I probably wouldn't be meleeing the mob.

As I said, I just equip as much MND as I can, to include gain mnd, in mage mode. I don't know how much that is, because it has been a while and I haven't logged on since I left Kuwait.



Funny.. People say that they were crap because I didn't merit convert, then later admit Convert was overkill and not necessary, just an easy way to regain MP. Yea, "total crap".....

I do gear swap in melee mode, I've only said that A MILLION TIMES already. Your failure to comprehend the conversation isn't at any fault of mine.



That's d*mb. Just like with refresh.. you can't whine and complain about needing convert and then never refresh. Refreshing is like adding mnd to slow. It helps and benefits, but is it really necessary it after other bonuses such as refresh atmas/auto refresh and elegy? No, it's not.

You can pretend that you max out mnd all you want but answer me this. Did you max out your MND merits and cast gain mnd? I'm sure you didn't, so don't give me this crap about needing to cap mnd until you do it and with every other stat that you use. Oooops, that's physically impossible... hmmmm I guess you're in a dilemma.

Alma you're so silly.

Having a pocket Bard doesn't make it ok to be gimp make bad decisions.

You keep bringing up MND merits too, as if these are things you can switch out on every spell like you can with gear. That's silly. Besides, dMND caps at 75 which shouldn't be unreasonable to achieve without MND merits if you bother to gear yourself correctly. That's not even getting into the issue of stat merits not being tied to which job you're on, or the fact that those other stats provide more overall benefits than putting you closer to capping dMND while casting naked.

Yeah cause stalking and Harassing is SUCH a smart thing to do.

Let's just drop it, seriously. It's a giant clutter to the forums.

Wait everyone stop....
Hyrist passed the bowl like 10 posts ago....

... ... ... ...

Jeeeeesus, Jlejeune, how long have you been puffing that? Jiminy Cricket!

If you don't like it post elsewhere, carrying on in one topic is not cluttering the forums at all, it is an extended discussion with 1 retard who is teaching us how to play mediocre RDM. Let him teach us how to disregard everything that is clearly better, so we can all play in mediocre land together.

Plus it amuses me and as long as I am amused I am not trolling you, I am sure Lyl is especially pleased by this.


Actually I am going to expand this:

Forums need threads like this. They thrive on them. They are beneficial in several ways.

1. They keep boards clean. The amount of stuff actually discussed in here could have been 3-4 threads, while it is lost under some personal sniping (on all sides including me, ok a lot by me.) There has been some good stuff discussed, we learned that it takes 45 seconds for a Slow II @ 5/5 to show a benefit over a 1/5 slow II. We learned Fast Cast and AFv3 can combine for an average (average spell load) 5% damage increase. We learned that /SCH is not always the best subjob, for all mages, so it can't be the best, but it is the most versatile. We learned that Convert is just a tool, use it when you need to.

2. They allow people to vent.
People like to vent, threads like this that are direct but indirect, as in we have decent discussions over a variety of points, for others to throw in additional things that bug them about this or that. It started with Convert, and Subjobs, it moved to merits, and then on to other stuff because people kept adding additional talking points. Lots of people have been discussing their points, and recommendations and has actually made for good discussion.

3. Entertainment.
=2 has seen much higher traffic, a lot of people have not even posted, they have just been watching the "drama" unfold, most probably ignore the numerical discussions and follow the quips and jabs. Threads like this provide a show, while at the same time a good discussion. I learned a good deal, and I don't even play, I crunched numbers on Slow, Fast Cast AFv3 because I was curious as to the worth/loss was after reading this. I was kind of surprised at the numbers. Its been a good thread and its provided knowledge, and entertainment.

Threads like these help keep forum communities going.


Edited, Sep 10th 2011 12:04am by rdmcandie

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 12:06am by rdmcandie

There is more to it than just that though. Healing is spammy as hell, its the same reason I have always put BLU's dead last on a refresh cycle. Refresh does not work well with spam, it is a spell that provides an MP buffer, when you are spamming it is not that great, or even useful. It takes 2.5 minutes for 150 MP, when you are spamming 100+ every few seconds, refresh is pretty useless.

Get off the soapbox Hyrist, it was all for the lulz.

If I didn't have the mnd gear, the macros and never used either, then I would be gimp and/or making bad decisions. Since I do have the gear, the macros and use them, just not on stuff where it matters, you can not legitimately call me gimp or making "bad decisions".



That's the point. You have to make decisions. You're acting like MND is any different from INT or STR. Do people change those merits? Are those players only playing one job? NO, but they still chose to merit a certain stat. So it makes no difference what stat you merit, no stat is universal as helpful for EVERY job.

If MND is such a big deal to you, then you would not only merit MND, but use gain mnd. Since you do neither, you're simply making a decision.



As a person who was one of the few defending RDM melee, I can say it was exactly like this. Not only that, but the inv. argument. The argument was that they didn't have room to carry melee gear because of all of the other gear that they carried. I countered that they didn't need all 8 staves, full int, full mnd, etc. to fight lolcolibris. It's the same exact argument now.



If you were to see me online, 9/10 it's my brother and that wont tell you anything because he "borrows" gear from my other retired brother who had every single good drop gear.



I give you props for being persistent. You know good and well that my argument was never implying that what I was doing was optimal, but quite the opposite. The whole argument is that you don't NEED to carry your optimal gear for every single thing you do. You're basically killing a fly with a hammer, completely unnecessary. You know this, but are consistent and attempting to turn stuff into fictional arguments. Bravo.



You're going to come over to Iraq? I'll be waiting for you.. :)

I agree that is ridiculous, I assumed it was a joke. But not after saying for the lulz. Why do you care how he plays. It doesn't matter how he plays, what matters is spreading false information to people who ask questions. He could run around naked if he wanted to, but don't say it is optimal when it is not. I honestly though you were joking, but not anymore...thats absurd.

You're misunderstanding me. The fact that you can "need" convert and not "need" refresh supports my claim that you don't necessarily "need" anything that inherently benefits you.



Trust me, I don't see them making it on post here in Iraq... but they can try.



Pay attention. I'm not wearing the same gear in Mage Mode fighting something worth while as I do a not so worthwhile mob while melee. It's just not necessary.



That's the thing. I am. If I'm meleeing a "hard hitting" double attacking mob, I'm more concerned fast cast, haste and defense than I am mnd. MND is low on my priority, especially when I have a freakin brd.

That's not gimp, it's being situational aware. If you're using the same gear and every scenario, you simply fail.

I did my tours in Afghanistan, thanks, you can stop bringing it up every chance you possibly get, serving is a privilege and an honor, not some merit badge for you to be flashing at people on the internet constantly... and this doesn't even make sense within the context of what you're replying to anyway, you don't read very well do you? Good ol' eleven-alpha.



You even bitched at Alma yourself for preaching stupid sh*t without backing it up with numbers... I suppose offering to run a parse for it to give it some concrete data to back up its ridiculous claims is completely, totally out of line?

Honestly, look at my @#%^ing sig, do you really think I don't have better things to be doing with my FFXI time than simply harassing some forum-mouthbreather?

If anyone is to blame for how ridiculous this sh*t is getting Vlor, it's definitely you for letting it go on when you should've locked and banned the first time you decided to post. Y'know, instead of getting dragged into it. The part where you actually apologized to it was rather priceless, I suppose your boss gave you sh*t?

WTF?

They wanted my location, I gave it. WTFRU talking about? Admin said something about physical threats. I replied.. they are not likely to get in the gates. This is because of security... which means I'm safe and not concern of any Internet threats.

That was you that took stuff out of context.