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Why does an RDM cap Ice Magic merits?Follow

#77 Sep 01 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Shield and Parry proc rate on anything above EM was floored last I bothered to check (for Rdm, Pld evades like a brick in the first place...). Possibly not for anyone with capped skill/merits/etc. but I'm fairly certain hardly anyone bothers.



Edited, Sep 2nd 2011 12:09am by Neisan
#78 Sep 02 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Neisan wrote:
Am I reading it wrong or is it 0.2 second delay, or 2 second delay?


its .2 i just forgot to put in the "." Thats why slow past 1 merit point is pretty neglible.



Edited, Sep 2nd 2011 11:18am by rdmcandie
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#79 Sep 02 2011 at 10:22 PM Rating: Default
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Fynlar wrote:
Because losing TP when you switch weapons is totally an excuse for not switching any other equipment.


Except I never implied that. I even said that I do gear swaps, I just don't do a full change. For example, Esto hands+1 + sabo + slow II. My point was to counter that stupid notion that you should never cast in melee gear ever. You do and you fail if you don't.

Cid wrote:
No, you equip MND gear and cure potency in other slots and precast in Fast Cast gear.

God you are stupid.


Sooooooo. you DO cast in melee gear. Just checking because I could have sworn you said that RDMs should never cast in melee gear. Last time I checked, most swords are for melee and do not out beneift clubs/staves in the magery realm.


#87 Sep 03 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Enough of this. Can't a single topic in the Rdm forums or even somewhat pertaining to Rdm not degrade into this tirade of flaming and trolling? You guys wonder why I had to lock the job adjustments, but this right here is a perfect indicator as to why. This started as a legitimate question as to why Rdm tend to cap out Ice Magic merits, and it's degraded to the point that a good number of posts are nothing more than just pointless bashing

Alma, towards you in particular since I've seen this several times now, going around and calling people trolls all the time simply because they have a counterpoint to yours doesn't help your case at all. My #1 rule when it comes to arguing or debating something is that if I'm going to insult the opposing side, then I've already lost the argument. How do you expect them to respond? Do you think they'll just be like, "Well...he called me a troll. I guess I deserved it and I should listen to what he has to say now"? No, they're likely going to respond to your negative, derogatory attitude towards them with equal negativity.

I've said it several times so far, but if you guys disagree with what's being said, then just argue the point that's being said, don't insult the person saying it. If they come to agree with you, that's great, and if they don't, then it's better to just walk away and not bother with it, because once you start flaming, then you're only getting yourself in trouble. Regardless of whether your intentions are to try and keep what the other person is saying from being spread cause you feel it's bad advice, or you just have a grudge against them and their play style, flaming isn't the way to go.

I'm not saying that I want you guys to hold hands and become the best of friends, but at least try to be a bit more respectful, and I mean this towards everyone involved in here.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 9:11am by Vlorsutes
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#88 Sep 03 2011 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Sooooooo. you DO cast in melee gear. Just checking because I could have sworn you said that RDMs should never cast in melee gear. Last time I checked, most swords are for melee and do not out beneift clubs/staves in the magery realm.


Actually you are incorrect again. A sword is one of RDM's best options for MACC related use. Yes you won't get added MND or INT of a Club/Shield, or the MATK of a Staff, but using a sword allows you to use death blossom if MACC is a huge issue, allowing you to equip more stat gears in other places over MACC.

Not that it really matters, at the very least you should be using Fast Cast/Recast gear. The only time you need to swap a sword is when you are nuking to MB, which is acceptable considering you will be opening or closing a SC and thus have dumped your TP in the process.

I don't know why you read so much into small ****, you obviously know what was meant, and are arguing semantics, poorly as usual.
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#89 Sep 03 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Sooooooo. you DO cast in melee gear. Just checking because I could have sworn you said that RDMs should never cast in melee gear. Last time I checked, most swords are for melee and do not out beneift clubs/staves in the magery realm.
Incorrect. Even without a Sanguine Blade subjob (which can cure more efficiently than light staff cures, and saves your MP to continue nuking more often than with elemental staves)... Sword can be the better mage option.

If a mob dies faster, you're saving MP, and possibly your life.

There's no good reason for casting in melee armor.

Quote:
Enough of this. Can't a single topic in the Rdm forums or even somewhat pertaining to Rdm not degrade into this tirade of flaming and trolling?
If I can't flame/troll here, I'm gonna flame/troll in real life.

You asked for it!

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 11:51am by IcookPizza
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#90 Sep 03 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Default
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Vlorsutes wrote:
Alma, towards you in particular since I've seen this several times now, going around and calling people trolls all the time simply because they have a counterpoint to yours doesn't help your case at all. My #1 rule when it comes to arguing or debating something is that if I'm going to insult the opposing side, then I've already lost the argument. How do you expect them to respond? Do you think they'll just be like, "Well...he called me a troll. I guess I deserved it and I should listen to what he has to say now"? No, they're likely going to respond to your negative, derogatory attitude towards them with equal negativity.


Since you felt the necessity to single me out as if I said or done anything wrong, I will respond. You're no different. RDD is a troll and he has admitted as such so you have no argument against me. So, either be an admin and address everyone equally or leave me out of it. I have not called a single person stupid, idiotic, etc. while others have said similar terms, yet you still feel the need to call me out. Because of that, your words have absolutely no value to me.

ICP wrote:
Incorrect. Even without a Sanguine Blade subjob (which can cure more efficiently than light staff cures, and saves your MP to continue nuking more often than with elemental staves)... Sword can be the better mage option.


False. Just because it gives hp doesn't make it a "mage" ability. Chakra isn't magery. Sanguine Blade is melee attack that is designed to give you hp. It's not magery but melee.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 6:27pm by Almalieque
#91 Sep 03 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Alma wrote:
I have not called a single person stupid, idiotic, etc. while others have said similar terms, yet you still feel the need to call me out. Because of that, your words have absolutely no value to me.


Alma wrote:
Everything is situational and for you to act like there's just one gear,support buff for every scenario is evident of your ignorance.

You're just a horrible troll

So, for you to pretend that you should do a complete equipment change for every spell you cast is just plain stupid.

You have no idea what you're talking about because you're so far behind the curve.

when in reality you're just too lazy to create a macro.

Even though it isn't necessary, it's the "Fynlar laziness" concept.

And I can say that you're a horrible troll and full of trash.

As I said, you're nothing but a troll.

You're just a horrible troll


From this thread alone.

And before you waste your time quoting all of my insults, of which there are many, know that I take full ownership of them, and mean every last one. I certainly wouldn't deny them when pressed by an Admin, as you so laughably have.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 12:53pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#92 Sep 03 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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Group 1

5/5 Ice
5/5 Convert


Convert Merits, No brain-er. In situations in which you're pushing MP the timer difference is noticeable and appreciated.

Ice Merits just make the most sense to me. Ice is a really powerful element given weakness correlation, and it works across the board for my offensive and debuff spells. Enblizzard, Blizzard, Bind and Paralyze all work on the Ice Element, and all benefit from having as much native accuracy bonus as possible.


Group II

3/5 Dia III
5/5 Paralyze II
1/5 Slow II
1/5 Blind II

Dia beats Bio in the majority of situations for me. 5% attack reduction is irrelevant when the monster is suffering from heavy debuffing and if I'm having difficulties maintaining buffs, I can always swap to blink tanking or stack on some extra %damage taken gear. However, in situations in which I'm not alone, the Defense down is highly worthwhile, especially in the company of lighter DDs, pet classes, and Blue Mage, which I frequently kept company of. 1:30 duration seems like a fairly comfortable duration for me.

Paralyze to Paralyze II can be the difference of night and day, and Saboteaur accentuates this more. A Saboteaured Para II can lock down a Dynamis Monk 2hr. (and with a DNC tank, that's important.) Solo, it's a good spell to have around when blink tanking as Ice Spikes do nothing for you at that point. That said, looking at my merits as a whole, you can tell I go full potency on Paralyze, relying on merits to help with accuracy troubles. If you land it, you want it to go as hard as you can because if you get lucky with it, it WILL out preform Slow II, but if you botch the rato, it's not even worth the merits. It's a high risk, high reward spell, so I stack the deck on it.

Slow II stays at one mainly because if I won't go 5/5, difference is negligible otherwise. But it's default potency is superior to that of Slow II and it overwrites haste. Given Saboteur, it can help cripple a monster quickly. Kinda foolish not to have this spell at least 1/5. However, given so many go 5/5 on it and my merits lean to ice, I opted for stacking Paralyze to full.

That leaves my most controversial merit, the 1/5 into Blind II.

Put simply, the floor potency of this spell is 3 times more powerful than the floor of Blind I, and just 5 accuracy short of Blind I's cap. At is cap, it matches the Ni version Ninja debuff.

In any situation in which I'm soloing something that's not an NM, my evasion isn't floored OR capped, so this provides an extra layer of defense for me that makes up for the absence of Bio III. Additionally, when I'm with allies, I often have a Dancer Tank, in which case evasion still isn't floored, and it can be used as a substitute to the Ninja version if not available (or the /nin can't land theirs.) This is to insure that we have some sort of evasion enhancement in the party at all times, and that the baseline of it is far higher than Blind 1.

One might note about the MP intensity of trying to maintain all of these debuffs, but I've managed my MP without any form of autorefresh for years. And now between Refresh II and the fact that I'm getting a fair amount of Auto Refresh gear for idling in backline I really haven't noticed the drain much at all. Comparatively, the higher potency is more important to me.
#93 Sep 03 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
False. Just because it gives hp doesn't make it a "mage" ability. Chakra isn't magery. Sanguine Blade is melee attack that is designed to give you hp. It's not magery but melee.


Evidently you really have no idea how this game works. Sanguine saves MP and therefor directly extends the ability to be magelike. Unless you think Conserve MP traits, Refresh Effects, Sublimation, and Convert are not mage related. (each use amounts to about cure 4.5 and saves you 270ish MP every 3 uses.)





Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 1:06pm by rdmcandie
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#94 Sep 03 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
Quote:
False. Just because it gives hp doesn't make it a "mage" ability. Chakra isn't magery. Sanguine Blade is melee attack that is designed to give you hp. It's not magery but melee.


Evidently you really have no idea how this game works. Sanguine saves MP and therefor directly extends the ability to be magelike. Unless you think Conserve MP traits, Refresh Effects, Sublimation, and Convert are not mage related. (each use amounts to about cure 4.5 and saves you 270ish MP every 3 uses.)





Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 1:06pm by rdmcandie


I agree Sanguine Blade is Mage-like, but this is a bad justification for it.


Better to say Sanguine Blade is an ability that deals Magical Damage and benefits from Magical Attack bonus.

Healing as a Utility is not solely a mage Trait, any more than Waltzes make Dancer a mage.

Does it save MP? Yes. But it is a weapon skill, not a spell. What makes it Mage-like is the modifiers, not the HP restoration. It is a great utility, however.
#95 Sep 03 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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What ever floats your boat. Its magelike because it saves lots of MP. Which allows you to use more spells, which allows you to kill faster/safer, saving more MP in the process. Aeolian Edge for example, is not mage like, it benefits our mage side in really no way at all.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 2:50pm by rdmcandie
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#96 Sep 03 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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So, following your logic...

Dancer in it's entirety is 'magelike'.

As is a PLD's JA set. Weapon bash, and every other JA or WS that has some sort of utility?

That's a really brash generalization, man.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 2:08pm by Hyrist
#97 Sep 03 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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No DNC is not magelike it does no function at all with MP and therefor has no benefit from abilities that would support such (ie. Aspir Samba).

As usual you are thinking way to literally. Im not really that surprised though.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 2:53pm by rdmcandie
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#98 Sep 03 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, that was off-handed. I was pointing out how your argument had no real basis.

You're making an argument that because a spell CAN assist someone's MP pool, that it's mage like. That it is mage-like.

There's no 'taking it literally' it is what you are saying.

I mean, aruging your logic back against you. Just because Aspir Samba dosen't return the DNC back Mana, doesn't stop it from being "Mage Like"

Remember Aspir Samba is a subbable ability. Obviously it is mage-like because it restores MP.

Same thing with the Waltzes I can use to save myself some MP when I sub it.

It's probably the same thing people got upset at me for when I said "gimick" instead of "crutch" with stun. Which is why I'm more sensitive to it right now.

Sanguine Blade functions more like a support ability looking at the raw mechanics.

It's "Mage-Like" in that it prefers magical stats to Physical Stats, much in the way all Magical Weapon Skills do. Curing is just a perk of it.

If it was a "Cure" that relied on Say, Dexterity and your Defense, and used TP, it would be a lot less "mage like" and more just a utility that's useful to saving our MP.
#99 Sep 03 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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So wait restoring MP through melee (aspir samba) is mage like, how is getting a free cure 4.5 every couple dozen seconds not. Instead of restoring MP, it removes the need to use it entirely. You can't argue one is and not the other.

Then again, you are likely arguing for sake of arguing.

As for "curing" being a perk, no. Curing is the whole reason to use Sanguine Blade, if it wasn't needed, or wanted, to conserve MP or even be used in conjunction for HP spammy moments. Otherwise it is more beneficial to use Evis or CDC, as faster kills are better. The only reason one would opt for Sang over Evis/CDC is for the heal. The fact that it has very favorable mods is the perk.


(and stun isn't a gimmick, it is pretty much the only reason to /BLM over /SCH, and is the only reason /BLM is better sub then /SCH.)

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 4:13pm by rdmcandie
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#100 Sep 03 2011 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Alma wrote:
I have not called a single person stupid, idiotic, etc. while others have said similar terms, yet you still feel the need to call me out. Because of that, your words have absolutely no value to me.


Alma wrote:
Everything is situational and for you to act like there's just one gear,support buff for every scenario is evident of your ignorance.

You're just a horrible troll

So, for you to pretend that you should do a complete equipment change for every spell you cast is just plain stupid.

You have no idea what you're talking about because you're so far behind the curve.

when in reality you're just too lazy to create a macro.

Even though it isn't necessary, it's the "Fynlar laziness" concept.

And I can say that you're a horrible troll and full of trash.

As I said, you're nothing but a troll.

You're just a horrible troll


From this thread alone.

And before you waste your time quoting all of my insults, of which there are many, know that I take full ownership of them, and mean every last one. I certainly wouldn't deny them when pressed by an Admin, as you so laughably have.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2011 12:53pm by LyltiaofLakshmi


Lol- "laughable"... this is sad. As I stated, I never said anything along those lines.You obviousuly fail to differentiate stating an objective fact vs an opinionated insult. How you compare stating one's ignorance with calling someone "stupid" is laughable. With the things being said on this forum, the stuff I said falls short of "insult". So, for me to be singled out is unprofessional and BS.

-stating your ignorance isn't an insult. It's the polite way of stating that you don't understand something.

-Calling a troll a troll is not an insult. Rather you are trolling intentionally or not, when you consisently use various view points just to oppose me, instead of agreeing with a single concept, then you are trolling.

You notice when everyone disagreed with RDD's thought about /sch for nuking? He admittedly said "I'll take your word for it". Yet he spent post after post arguing with me when we were initially in agreemenet just to find something to be against.

-being behind the curve is a fact. I've been arguing the same stuff for years that people have just now decided to go along with. That is, unless you're denying the anti-RDM melee era. I've been doing RDM melee in/out pt since 2003. All of the stuff that you all bringing up as issues, I debunked years ago.

-Fynlar is being lazy, he said himself that it was too "cumbersome" to use a /ja for a spell that he admits isn't used for any "worthwhile" mob. That is laziness. Again, not subjective, but a fact.

- I could give you the "full of trash" comment, but that also is a fact as Fylnar even admitted himself that he wasn't needing sleep while fighting worth while mobs. Which means you don't need sleep readily available. Also, that comment of people dying due to referesh was indeed garbage if you are casting sleep. I already pointed out that mobs don't differentiate between the spells you cast.

The bottom line was that Fylnar painted this scenario when in reality it was multiple scenarios. Just like when he said was duo-box, but then said he would check to see what the other people were subbing and tried to use that horrible save of "well technically 2 people is a group". That would have saved him if he didn't already state that the other character was a monk. So, instead of just admitting to being wrong, he kept making stuff up until he finally gave up.
#101 Sep 03 2011 at 11:04 PM Rating: Default
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The bottom line is that if you were on the backline, then you wouldn't have a sword equipped. You're simply having the sword equipped because you realize the benefits of doing that WS outweighs the bonus of gear swapping for a cure spell.

Back in the day, people argued that a RDM should never have 100% TP. They wanted you to change out to staves for EVERY spell. SB only cures you, not anyone else. So, unless you're willing to switch to a staff/club to cure someone else, then you are indeed casting in melee gear.

It's not a bad thing because the benefits outweigh the cost.
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