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Why does an RDM cap Ice Magic merits?Follow

#1 Jul 14 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Having only just got my RDM into a state where he can spend some merits I looked at the Census for an idea of where RDMs usually spend them and found myself wondering why the massive lead Ice Magic Acc. has over every other skill except Convert timer.

Having looked at 'ice' spells I can see one or two I can think of as being useful to cap Acc. for but then all magic schools seem to have their fair share of useful enfeebs, etc.

What is it I'm missing that makes Ice so much more desired than the others?

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 3:54pm by Vlorsutes Lock Thread:
#2 Jul 14 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Ice has Paralyze, Bind and Blizzard.

Ice just gets the most mileage.
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#3 Jul 14 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Blizzard was/is RDM's most reliable nuke. In Abyssea, it's also RDM's strongest nuke.

Bind used to be vital for NM solos because almost everything was sleep immune, but not bind immune, and the ones susceptible to Gravity usually had increasing resistance so you couldn't rely on it forever anyway.

Nowadays, the older NMs that were vulnerable to Bind are easy for a 90RDM to take on, ice merits or not... and pretty much everything that matters NOW is bind immune. So it doesn't much matter anymore.
#4 Jul 14 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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Now a days our MACC merits are pretty mundane, they don't really boost stuff to the point of it mattering. But the reason why Ice is the mantra is pretty much what the above 2 have said.
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#5 Jul 15 2011 at 12:47 AM Rating: Decent
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It did occur to me that Paralyze was Ice and maybe that was one key factor, it didn't though occur to me that Bind was as important as it is (was?).

Thanks for the education. :)
#6 Jul 16 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Blizzard III/IV
Paralyze
Bind
Enblizzard

And most things we end up fighting are either weak to ice or neutral. Of the available choice's is just the most useful one.
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#7 Jul 17 2011 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Did we ever actually determine for sure if the magic acc merits actually work for Enspells?

One of my lingering questions from the Olden Days.
#8 Jul 17 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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yes they do. all magic acc effects enspells. Although the biggest boost to them comes from using them properly on the mobs weakness.
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#9 Aug 25 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
On the subject of merits, what are good ones for a lvl 90 RDM to get? I've had a lvl 90 BLM for a while, and just last night I got RDM up there too, and now I want to aim for end-game. I know exactly what merits I want for BLM but I have no idea what to get for RDM. I know in the old days it was something like:

5/5 Convert,
3/5 Ice,
2/5 Wind

5/5 BioIII
3/5 Slow II
2/5 Paralyze II

But is that still true? I saw on another thread here people saying Bio III just isn't worth it. I know that merits aren't hard to get these days but I'm not interested in changing them constantly. Thanks for the advice!

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#10 Aug 25 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Not really. That list is pretty terrible by today's standards and probably pretty bad back then too.

5/5 on Convert is a no-brainer.

Magic Accuracy isn't quite as crucial as it once was so you can probably tweak these to suit your taste, but Ice is still the most all around useful one.

For group 2 merits I wouldn't bother putting any in Bio III. It's just not a very good spell, and its claim to fame is either **** off people who merited Dia III or DoT solos for people who don't know how to nuke while kiting.

Dia III, Slow II and Paralyze II are all worth putting at least one point into. Beyond that it's really up to taste. Dia only gets increased duration, Slow's gains beyond the first merit are marginal, and no one has any math at all on Paralyze.

Edited, Aug 25th 2011 1:24pm by cidbahamut
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#11 Aug 25 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, Bio III was nice at 75 when the total damage was comparable to one of your nukes for a fraction of the MP cost.. now that we have tier IV and tripled Refresh capability, it's just a wasted cast.
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#12 Aug 26 2011 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Given the general overall **** of our groups 2's (now) 1 Dia, 1 Slow, 3 Para, and either 5 Phalanx 2.

Bio III does have its uses, but they are rooted more so in the solo area, its like having defender on all the time, with no impact on our attack. But for general play (groups) Dia III trumps it.

As for G1. 5/5 Vert. 5/5 Ice still the way to go.

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#13 Aug 26 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
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The Rules:
-Merit Convert 5/5
-Merit Slow2 at least once
-Don't merit Bio3 unless you plan to go 5/5
-Don't merit Paralyze2 unless you plan to 4/5 or (preferably) 5/5
-Don't merit Blind2

I'd like to dismiss Phalanx2 and non-Ice merits, but there are probably enough niche arguments out there to prove me wrong.

Dia3 is the unique one; no rules behind it.
There are beautifully solid reasons to merit it 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, 5/5, and even 0/5.

Edited, Aug 30th 2011 2:51am by IcookPizza
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#14 Aug 26 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Bio III does have its uses, but they are rooted more so in the solo area, its like having defender on all the time, with no impact on our attack.

On a related note, Bio3 is often the better choice for solo RDM in terms of DD.

Casting Bio3 (as opposed to Dia3) allows for:
1-Less cure/regen/stoneskin "cast-lock"
2-Less cure/regen/stoneskin MP-spending
3-Less interruptions; further lessening "cast-lock"
4-Less MP spent on compensating for said interruptions
5-More nuking (due to points 2 and 4)
6-More sword-swinging DoT (due to points 1 and 3)
7-More sword-swinging TP (due to points 1 and 3)
*When using utility-based WS's such as Energy Drain, Aeolian Edge, Sanguine blade... increased TP gain is super valuable*
8-More effective utilization of Enspells (due to point 6)

Poison-like DoT and the immediate "mini-nuke" damage are the icing on Bio3's cake.

...And no; Rehashing that list never gets old.
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#15 Aug 26 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Oops, a daisy.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:27am by IcookPizza

Meh, I might as well make use of this accidental double-post (guess it's triple-post, at this point).

The first thing I merited was 1/5 Dia II, with the intent of deleting it after capping all of my other merits. Definitely clever, though I'm sure other RDMs had thought of it before me.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:46am by IcookPizza
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#16 Aug 27 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Default
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EDIT: NVM, reread what you were responding to, if it's a weak mob I cast dia, if I'm worried about taking hits then I cast Bio.

For G2 I merited 2/5 Dia (I hate 30 second duration with 1 merit) 1/5 Slow 2/5 Para and 5/5 Phalanx 2. My justification is not always going /sch everywhere (while a good sub, not one I'm always using) and with only 2 strategems, in my opinion constantly burning one on Phalanx is wasteful. Paralyze 2 is still better than Para 1 even at 1 merit but not by much (approximately ~5% minimum better). Obviously it costs more to cast but I don't really care that much.


EDIT: And it appears that due to rounding my Phalanx 2 is as strong as my Phalanx 1 at 390-400 skill (380 is weaker but no change between 390 and 400).



Edited, Aug 28th 2011 2:39am by Neisan
#17 Aug 27 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding 1/5 Paralyze2:
Quote:
Paralyze 2 is still better than Para 1 even at 1 merit but not by much (approximately ~5% minimum better). Obviously it costs more to cast but I don't really care that much.
Casting SIX TIMES the MP for an inconclusively "5% better" Paralyze doesn't sound like something I'd spend three merit points on.

I wanna say those three merit points are better spent elsewhere, but maybe Abyssea buffs have closed this canyon of a gap I'm imagining.

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 3:45am by IcookPizza
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#18 Aug 28 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Default
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The test done over on that over FFXI site had Paralyze 2 being 6% better at one merit, I rounded down. I can agree not wanting to waste merits on a more expensive spell that is hardly better than the original, however aside from dropping Phalanx I felt putting one extra merit in Para was better than unlocking Blind II which I almost never use other than to land an enfeebling spell on odd mobs (I don't evasion tank, and I rarely party on Rdm with evasion tanks either. I don't party on Rdm much these days but that's a different issue).

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 11:03am by Neisan
#19 Aug 28 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait, there wast testing done on Paralyze? Link me.
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#20 Aug 28 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Default
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I'll try, it's buried somewhere in my favs folder.

EDIT: Found the links and it seems Para 2 is even better than I first remembered (there was older testing but I can't find it), links here:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/83846-Extensive-Paralyze-I-Testing

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/59134-Paralyze-Testing



Edited, Aug 28th 2011 11:16am by Neisan
#21 Aug 28 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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para is inconsistent anyway, in fact I still use para 1 most of the time, and now with saboteur i can't really find a good reason to get para II at all. Infact outside of Dia III, and the utility Bio III offers our G2 merits are pretty ****
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#22 Aug 28 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II
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#23 Aug 28 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


seems **** too.

3/5 wind- useless
2/5 earth- useless

if you dont want/need convert go 5/5 wind or earth, but really who doesn't merit convert

3 slow - only need 1
1 phalanx II, why?
1 blind, why?
2 bio 5/5 or don't merit it.

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#24 Aug 28 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


Why does this not surprise me.
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rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#25 Aug 31 2011 at 2:57 AM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
I don't quite remember my merits, but this seems accurate.

5/5 ice
3/5 wind
2/5 earth

3 slow II
1 para II
2 Dia III
2 Bio III
1 phalanx II
1 Blind II


seems sh*tty too.

3/5 wind- useless
2/5 earth- useless

if you dont want/need convert go 5/5 wind or earth, but really who doesn't merit convert

3 slow - only need 1
1 phalanx II, why?
1 blind, why?
2 bio 5/5 or don't merit it.




Here is/was my reasoning.

My initial plan was 3 slow II/3 para II when it was only 6 merits.

I initially got para and was disappointed. Given my playing style, mostly solo/duo melee, ice spikes is a much better option for para.

So, I went with my plan and put 2 into Slow II. I stopped after I realized that I didn't need more than one, but really didn't know where else to put it. My philosophy is everything else pretty much sucked and at least I know slow will benefit from it.

I only got one phalanx II because as I said before, if SE wants us to be a buffer class, then it needs to better set us up as such. Otherwise, I'm not going into a "Pink Mage" of buffs, creating cycles of 2-3 spells.

1 phalanx II merit gives you phalanx which is better than nothing, if you want better, then ask a scholar or SMN. As I said, I'm a solo/duo melee person, so I'm not going to put my merits into a spell that I'll probably wont use as much.

Dia III was a given, with the TP burns and all.

I had no intentions of ever getting blind, but that's when I learned that you didn't need to be maxed on slow II, so I ended up getting blind II for ish and giggles, but ended up using it in solo play. BLind II > Blind.

After the update to 10, I put one more in dia because 30 seconds outside of TP burns is a waste, one minute is manageable. Then I put 2 in Bio III for solo play. Bio III > Bio II and if you don't have any MP problems, 1 min recast is nothing.

Then I put my final one in Slow II. Even though it isn't necessary, it's the "Fynlar laziness" concept. I would rather have my spell good enough to where I don't have to worry about gear selection.



Edited, Aug 31st 2011 12:11pm by Almalieque
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#26 Aug 31 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I read that a long time ago, Paralyze on regular mobs is awesome. The problem arises vs NM's and HNM's, where SE's evilness just gave them NM's straight resistance either through purely resisting it, or it such reduced potency that it'll wear before it procs most of the time. Paralyze II being stronger / more accurate suffers the same fate as Paralyze 1. Its a case of it's generally useless, but when it works it works REALLY good.
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#27 Aug 31 2011 at 4:47 AM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
I read that a long time ago, Paralyze on regular mobs is awesome. The problem arises vs NM's and HNM's, where SE's evilness just gave them NM's straight resistance either through purely resisting it, or it such reduced potency that it'll wear before it procs most of the time. Paralyze II being stronger / more accurate suffers the same fate as Paralyze 1. Its a case of it's generally useless, but when it works it works REALLY good.


The thing is, regular mobs is when I would use ice spikes. I need para II to work when I'm in the back row, not the front row. Slow II is one of the few enfeebles that you're almost guaranteed to get off, that's why I still put my merits in slow II.
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#28 Aug 31 2011 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, but why no Convert merits? Convert seems like a pretty obvious choice for group 1 merits.
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#29 Aug 31 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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The thing is, regular mobs is when I would use ice spikes. I need para II to work when I'm in the back row, not the front row. Slow II is one of the few enfeebles that you're almost guaranteed to get off, that's why I still put my merits in slow II.


Thats stupid, the difference between 1/5 Slow 2 and 3/5 Slow 2 is neglible, and only shows up on paper, you will never notice a fraction of a second difference at all, and if you say you can you are full of ****

As for Ice Spikes, they are only useful solo, because you are never going to have hate in a group consistently enough to have the effect be consistently reapplied. Casting Para on a mob in a group is better than Ice Spikes, and Para II at 1/5 is a wasted merit as effect for MP cost at this point has Para 1 being more efficient.

Bio 3 is only better at 5/5 in terms of DMG/MP value, the only benefit you get over Bio II here is and extra 5% ATK down. As for MP problems, you must run into them all the time, or have never actually fought anything of real merit, because all this extra wasted MP you throw out.


Your merit layout is bad, and your reasoning for it is flawed. As someone who actually does a lot of low man and solo work, I can tell you right now you don't have the MP to support the spells you claim to use, mostly because your Group 1 merits are absolutely laughable.
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#30 Aug 31 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
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cidbahamut wrote:
Yes, but why no Convert merits? Convert seems like a pretty obvious choice for group 1 merits.


At the time, I had trained myself to save convert for the oh-ish momments, but then as the game transitioned into the TP burns, I literally forgot I had convert. I later realized that in those moments, I should ride convert and I did so while I was the main healer, melee RDM. Even then, I hardly ever needed to convert under 10 mins.

I'll probably change it in the future if my game play changes to where I actually need convert under 10 mins.

RDD wrote:
Thats stupid, the difference between 1/5 Slow 2 and 3/5 Slow 2 is neglible, and only shows up on paper, you will never notice a fraction of a second difference at all, and if you say you can you are full of sh*t.


And yet it's better than any other choice on the list. Those spells should have been regular learned spells and the enhancements should have been the merits. That was the only choice to guarantee a boost.

Besides, since when is +1ing a stat ever negligible in ffxi? People literally spends millions on +1 items for an increase of 1 or 2 int/mnd/str etc. So to act like that's something out of the ordinary is stupid.

Look at the category with int. How many people dropped 9 merits to increase those stats by ONE?
Do you call that negligible or do you see that as every little thing counts?

IF you paid attention to what I said, if you can get the same/similar buff with equipment, then that little boost from my merits made it that much easier to boost from my gear.

RDD wrote:
As for Ice Spikes, they are only useful solo, because you are never going to have hate in a group consistently enough to have the effect be consistently reapplied. Casting Para on a mob in a group is better than Ice Spikes, and Para II at 1/5 is a wasted merit as effect for MP cost at this point has Para 1 being more efficient.


And since I solo, duo/tank MOST of the time, ice spikes is a much better option for me than para II. The only other time that I'll be in a group fighting a mob that's worth casting para II over para I would be in an alliance with other RDMs who have para II. I'm not going to sacrifice my solo play for the few times I play along side other RDMs with para II.

RDD wrote:
Bio 3 is only better at 5/5 in terms of DMG/MP value, the only benefit you get over Bio II here is and extra 5% ATK down. As for MP problems, you must run into them all the time, or have never actually fought anything of real merit, because all this extra wasted MP you throw out.


Were you even paying attention in the other thread? Everyone agrees that MP is not an issue in abyssea. As a RDM with refresh II, MM atma, ballad III/ballad II, Duelist chapeau,Estoqueur's Sayon +1, Sanguine's Blade and temp items, I have very little MP problems. As a result, that + 5 is all worth it. If MP starts to become a problem, I just switch back to BIO II.

If they allow more merits in this category of merits, I will add it to Bio III.

RDD wrote:
Your merit layout is bad, and your reasoning for it is flawed. As someone who actually does a lot of low man and solo work, I can tell you right now you don't have the MP to support the spells you claim to use, mostly because your Group 1 merits are absolutely laughable.


And I can say that you're a horrible troll and full of trash.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 5:15pm by Almalieque
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#31 Aug 31 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

Were you even paying attention in the other thread? Everyone agrees that MP is not an issue in abyssea. As a RDM with refresh II, MM atma, ballad III/ballad II, Duelist chapeau,Estoqueur's Sayon +1, Sanguine's Blade and temp items, I have very little MP problems. As a result, that + 5 is all worth it. If MP starts to become a problem, I just switch back to BIO II.

If they allow more merits in this category of merits, I will add it to Bio III.


Your damage must suck as a melee RDM if you are wearing MP atmas, getting a BRD to give MP buffs and refresh gear. LOL. You are full of sh*t, I doubt you have even succeeded in soloing trash mobs for gold chests let alone anything of real value. Why don't you take the two useless points from slow II and put them in Bio III, and then tae 1 from dia and stick it there too. Wear DD atma's and have your BRD sing useful buffs.



Quote:
And I can say that you're a horrible troll and full of trash.


Oh somebody getting upset. Although the same could easily be said about you. But then again one of us actually knows what they are talking about, and its not you.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 11:39am by rdmcandie
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#32 Aug 31 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Wait, if you're wearing mage atmas in Abyssea then magic accuracy merits make even less sense. Meriting convert would at least make soloing NMs go faster with more liberal nuking capacity due to a better convert timer.
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#33 Aug 31 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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cidbahamut wrote:
Wait, if you're wearing mage atmas in Abyssea then magic accuracy merits make even less sense. Meriting convert would at least make soloing NMs go faster with more liberal nuking capacity due to a better convert timer.


well considering earth and wind merits were useless at 75 cap, it goes without saying they are useless now.
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#34 Aug 31 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And I can say that you're a horrible troll and full of trash.


No he's actually quite good at it, as he can turn it on and off, and focus it where he wants it; whereas you troll every single thread you post in with your alternate-reality FFXI advice whether it's your objective or not.

Also, he's proven himself capable of learning from others, something you seem unable to do; you'd rather just tell people they're 'full of trash' and gloat that you're 'ahead of the curve.'

Also, your merits suck, and if they're any indication of your playstyle, it explains much.
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#35 Aug 31 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Decent
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RDD wrote:
Your damage must suck as a melee RDM if you are wearing MP atmas, getting a BRD to give MP buffs and refresh gear. LOL. You are full of sh*t, I doubt you have even succeeded in soloing trash mobs for gold chests let alone anything of real value. Why don't you take the two useless points from slow II and put them in Bio III, and then tae 1 from dia and stick it there too. Wear DD atma's and have your BRD sing useful buffs.


Well obviously you know nothing about RDM melee solo. It's not about dealing damage, it's about outliving your opponent. I don't have MP atmaS. Only one, the rest are usually defense related. With the proper haste build up, enspell, capped sword with full merits, you don't worry about attack, but defense to stay alive. Now, if the mob is so lol that dying is of really no concern, then by all means, go on the offense.

As I said, you're nothing but a troll.

FFXI is all about +1, so therefore those two merits for slow are not useless and the brd is not always casting ballad, mostly acc and atk. I merely stated that he can if there were a need for MP, just to show you that MP is not a problem.

RDD wrote:
Oh somebody getting upset. Although the same could easily be said about you. But then again one of us actually knows what they are talking about, and its not you.


Says the guy who told me to get DD atmas... LOL..

Cid wrote:
Wait, if you're wearing mage atmas in Abyssea then magic accuracy merits make even less sense. Meriting convert would at least make soloing NMs go faster with more liberal nuking capacity due to a better convert timer.


Read above. I AM NOT WEARING MP ATMAS, I'm wearing ONE for refresh and I'm not soloing in Abyssea, only outside of Abyssea. Inside is duo with brd. I was never in need for convert nor would I ever convert tank/meleeing a mob. I know it can be done, because I have before and seen others do it, but it's just not worth the risk. If MP is starting to get low, I switch out to MP gear, get ballad and withold on spells like blind II until I'm back ready again.

Lyltia wrote:
No he's actually quite good at it, as he can turn it on and off, and focus it where he wants it; whereas you troll every single thread you post in with your alternate-reality FFXI advice whether it's your objective or not.

Also, he's proven himself capable of learning from others, something you seem unable to do; you'd rather just tell people they're 'full of trash' and gloat that you're 'ahead of the curve.'

Also, your merits suck, and if they're any indication of your playstyle, it explains much.


How is he good at it if he's arguing with the only person who agrees with him in a thread? He called me retarded for AGREEING WITH HIM.That's horrible trolling. On the other hand, I'm not trolling at all, I mainly just only partake in threads where I'm the opposition or else it isn't fun. The difference is, I'm not just making stuff up just to argue.

Gloating? I was told that I didn't know my information. I defended myself by demonstrating that the same thing was said about RDM melee and here we are today at a complete 180 on the opinion of RDM melee.

That's just ONE example.

My merits suck? The RDM merits in general suck. I shouldn't have to dump half of my merits into a spell just to make it "worthwhile" to cast. Blind II doesn't overwrite NIN (If I"m not mistaken). Phalanx is already available through other jobs. I mean the whole line up is crappy. So, for you to pretend that one set up is so much worse than another, while completely ignoring the difference in gameplay scenarios is just silly

Just because I chose not to be a cookie cutter RDM doesn't make me wrong. Just like how I wasn't afraid to be different about RDM melee in 2003, I'm not afraid or concerned about being different with these merits today.

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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#36 Aug 31 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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All I heard was "I am a special snowflake and I am not particularly good at playing Red Mage".

Also your Bard should be giving you double marches, not attack and accuracy. And you wonder why we give you a hard time...
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Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#37 Aug 31 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalieque wrote:
Just because I chose not to be a cookie cutter RDM doesn't make me wrong. Just like how I wasn't afraid to be different about RDM melee in 2003, I'm not afraid or concerned about being different with these merits today.

Being different doesn't necessarily make you right, either.
____________________________
"And I'm prepared to passionately argue this point until nothing makes sense anymore. If that doesn't work, then the hours upon hours of whining will." -Red Mage Statscowski

Saggo of Garuda Lakshmi
#38 Aug 31 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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That, and there is no such thing as a 'cookie-cutter' merit setup for RDM, as it what's best varies greatly according to what one uses their RDM for. That being said, there's still bad decisions to make, such as Slow II above (x1), Phalanx2 (x1), (seriously, wtf?) and anything in Cat1 besides Ice/Convert; hence the lulz @ your merits.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:27pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#40 Aug 31 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Alma has a point here, RDM solo is not RDM group, the atma's would be different. RDM Group I use VV / RR / Apoc, MP is rarely an issue with AF+2 legs and Refresh, also I idle in my +2 body and relic hat. That being said, his merit choices are somewhat ..~huh~ worthy.

Mine are,

Convert 5/5
Ice Acc 5/5

Was originally
Convert 3/5 (9min flat timer)
Ice Acc 5/5
Wnd Acc 2/5

But since SE made most NM's immune to gravity, and I can land Silence / Gravity on any NQ monster practically naked, I just changed merits.
Ice acc are natural for Blizzard nukes and enblizzard melee. Para / Bind aren't as useful as they used to be though. I've been seriously debating switching to 5/5 Earth just for Slow II and Break, but don't know if that would be wise.

Tier II

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 5/5

Was originally

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 2/5
Phalanx II 3/5

Once PLD's native Phalanx was stronger then our Phalanx II I removed merits from it. I don't participate in any activity that requires me to use ST Phalanx II where I couldn't use Accession Phalanx. I then dumped the merits into Dia III to extend it's duration, nothing else worth while. I've already said how SE has given most NM's a flat reduction to the potency of Paralyze, and anything weaker doesn't live long enough to justify Para II over the 6mp Paralyze. Bio III I have a deep rooted hatred for due to 5/5 Bio III RDM's randomly casting it and ruining my Dia III per-zerg prep. I've since moved Dia III from a "per-zerg" spell to a "full time" spell, basically its the first spell out when a fight begins, second being Slow II. I love Slow II, practically nothing resists it and few NM's have a flat potency reduction to it.

Anyhow, Merit choices are a YMMV type thing.
____________________________
RoTZ: Complete DM: O
CoP: Complete AN: O
99 SAM, RDM, BLU, WAR, PLD, DRK

lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#43 Aug 31 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Default
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jlejeune wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
Just because I chose not to be a cookie cutter RDM doesn't make me wrong. Just like how I wasn't afraid to be different about RDM melee in 2003, I'm not afraid or concerned about being different with these merits today.

Being different doesn't necessarily make you right, either.


You're absolutely correct, but in this case it does.

LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
That, and there is no such thing as a 'cookie-cutter' merit setup for RDM, as it what's best varies greatly according to what one uses their RDM for. That being said, there's still bad decisions to make, such as Slow II above (x1), Phalanx2 (x1), (seriously, wtf?) and anything in Cat1 besides Ice/Convert; hence the lulz @ your merits.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:27pm by LyltiaofLakshmi


LOL, that's cookie cutter. If the merits in general didn't all suck, then you would have a point. Right now you're arguing that cat poo is more disgusting than dog poo. That was no "bad" decision. People dump 9 merits to gain one mnd or int, yet dumping 9 merits for + 2 slow effect and 4 M.Acc is a waste? GTFOWTBS...

People also said that RDM JSE was complete garbage during the time when it was one of the few gear with M.Acc claiming that "we dont' know what it is, but it can't be that good". Now that everything has M.Acc on it, RDMs and BLMs are stocking up on it. It's the same cookie cutter fad crap. You can deny it, but it wont make it any more true.
____________________________
Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#44 Aug 31 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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824 posts
Quote:
LOL, that's cookie cutter. If the merits in general didn't all suck, then you would have a point. Right now you're arguing that cat poo is more disgusting than dog poo. That was no "bad" decision. People dump 9 merits to gain one mnd or int, yet dumping 9 merits for + 2 slow effect and 4 M.Acc is a waste? GTFOWTBS...


So you think that the only thing you waste when meriting the wrong things is merit points?

Besides, with any sort of decent gear you are already capping Slow II potency against most targets with 1 merit, and 4 M.ACC for spells that already have high innate accuracy, combined with the amount of M.ACC we get from the gear you'd be casting them in.. both are completely worthless; as in, having zero effect, and not doing a **** thing for you.

So yes, I'd definitely call that a waste when I could merit something else that would at least have an effect on my character.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:47pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#45 Aug 31 2011 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Alma has a point here, RDM solo is not RDM group, the atma's would be different. RDM Group I use VV / RR / Apoc, MP is rarely an issue with AF+2 legs and Refresh, also I idle in my +2 body and relic hat. That being said, his merit choices are somewhat ..~huh~ worthy.

Mine are,

Convert 5/5
Ice Acc 5/5

Was originally
Convert 3/5 (9min flat timer)
Ice Acc 5/5
Wnd Acc 2/5

But since SE made most NM's immune to gravity, and I can land Silence / Gravity on any NQ monster practically naked, I just changed merits.
Ice acc are natural for Blizzard nukes and enblizzard melee. Para / Bind aren't as useful as they used to be though. I've been seriously debating switching to 5/5 Earth just for Slow II and Break, but don't know if that would be wise.

Tier II

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 5/5

Was originally

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 2/5
Phalanx II 3/5

Once PLD's native Phalanx was stronger then our Phalanx II I removed merits from it. I don't participate in any activity that requires me to use ST Phalanx II where I couldn't use Accession Phalanx. I then dumped the merits into Dia III to extend it's duration, nothing else worth while. I've already said how SE has given most NM's a flat reduction to the potency of Paralyze, and anything weaker doesn't live long enough to justify Para II over the 6mp Paralyze. Bio III I have a deep rooted hatred for due to 5/5 Bio III RDM's randomly casting it and ruining my Dia III per-zerg prep. I've since moved Dia III from a "per-zerg" spell to a "full time" spell, basically its the first spell out when a fight begins, second being Slow II. I love Slow II, practically nothing resists it and few NM's have a flat potency reduction to it.

Anyhow, Merit choices are a YMMV type thing.


I will probably dump my wind and go 5/5 Earth, 5/5 Ice

LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
LOL, that's cookie cutter. If the merits in general didn't all suck, then you would have a point. Right now you're arguing that cat poo is more disgusting than dog poo. That was no "bad" decision. People dump 9 merits to gain one mnd or int, yet dumping 9 merits for + 2 slow effect and 4 M.Acc is a waste? GTFOWTBS...


So you think that the only thing you waste when meriting the wrong things is merit points?

Besides, with any sort of decent gear you are already capping Slow II potency against most targets with 1 merit, and 4 M.ACC for spells that already have high innate accuracy, combined with the amount of M.ACC we get from the gear you'd be casting them in.. both are completely worthless; as in, having zero effect, and not doing a **** thing for you.

So yes, I'd definitely call that a waste when I could merit something else that would at least have an effect on my character.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:47pm by LyltiaofLakshmi


What M.ACC gear?..... exactly, that's the whole point. You chose to reach cap through gear, I chose to reach cap through merits, it's not a waste. I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear.. It's no different than what Fynlar has been arguing against /sch. The only difference is I accept the difference.

As said, cookie cutter.
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#46 Aug 31 2011 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear.. It's no different than what Fynlar has been arguing against /sch. The only difference is I accept the difference.


Almalieque wrote:
I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear

Almalieque wrote:
cast it in my melee gear

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Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#47 Aug 31 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
What M.ACC gear?.....


Uh, Estoqueur+2?

Quote:
exactly, that's the whole point. You chose to reach cap through gear, I chose to reach cap through merits, it's not a waste. I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear..


You deign to lecture me on RDM, and then admit to this? I mean, I knew you were terrible, but I didn't think quite that terrible...

Pretty sure that's /thread, move along, sideshow's over.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 5:02pm by LyltiaofLakshmi
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#48 Aug 31 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default
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LyltiaofLakshmi wrote:
Quote:
What M.ACC gear?.....


Uh, Estoqueur+2?

Quote:
exactly, that's the whole point. You chose to reach cap through gear, I chose to reach cap through merits, it's not a waste. I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear..


You deign to lecture me on RDM, and then admit to this? I mean, I knew you were terrible, but I didn't think quite that terrible...

Pretty sure that's /thread, move along, sideshow's over.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 5:02pm by LyltiaofLakshmi


Dude, it's all about the defense. I have *some* gear in macros and I know that I'm lacking in that area, but the whole point is, if I can get the same effect in my defense gear by merits and not have to swap gear, WTF would I swap?

You're just proving my point on the cookie cutter. If it's soooo easy to cap Slow II, then why swap, unless that is, you need some extra M.Acc to push you to that hump?

Edit: It's either one or the other, choose a side and stick with it.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 11:07pm by Almalieque
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Demea wrote:
Almalieque wrote:

I'm biased against statistics
#49 Aug 31 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Semantic games won't get you out of this one, champ.

If you don't swap gear on RDM, you **** fail, end of story, your argument is invalid.
____________________________
rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#50 Aug 31 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Why wouldn't you gear swap?
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Server: Midgardsormr
Occupation: Reckless Red Mage

IcookPizza wrote:

I think RDM's neurotic omniscience is sooooooo worth including in any alliance.
#51 Aug 31 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love how I've hardly contributed to this thread, yet I've quite obviously made enough of an impression on a certain someone in here in order for my name to keep getting brought up. I feel all warm and tingly inside.

Quote:
I don't want to be lugging or switching M.Acc gear to cast slow II, when I can just cast it in my melee gear.. It's no different than what Fynlar has been arguing against /sch. The only difference is I accept the difference.


I especially love how when it's me choosing to take the easy way out on things regarding subjob choice and MP maintenance, it's sheer laziness and a refusal to accept the fact that I'm giving up Glorious Benefits; but when you're taking the easy way out with gear, you're allowed to just handwave it like it ain't no thang.

I WAS getting all warm and tingly before, but now I think I'm actually getting turned on a bit.
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