Why does an RDM cap Ice Magic merits?Follow

Having only just got my RDM into a state where he can spend some merits I looked at the Census for an idea of where RDMs usually spend them and found myself wondering why the massive lead Ice Magic Acc. has over every other skill except Convert timer.

Having looked at 'ice' spells I can see one or two I can think of as being useful to cap Acc. for but then all magic schools seem to have their fair share of useful enfeebs, etc.

What is it I'm missing that makes Ice so much more desired than the others?

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 3:54pm by Vlorsutes Lock Thread:

Blizzard was/is RDM's most reliable nuke. In Abyssea, it's also RDM's strongest nuke.

Bind used to be vital for NM solos because almost everything was sleep immune, but not bind immune, and the ones susceptible to Gravity usually had increasing resistance so you couldn't rely on it forever anyway.

Nowadays, the older NMs that were vulnerable to Bind are easy for a 90RDM to take on, ice merits or not... and pretty much everything that matters NOW is bind immune. So it doesn't much matter anymore.

It did occur to me that Paralyze was Ice and maybe that was one key factor, it didn't though occur to me that Bind was as important as it is (was?).

Thanks for the education. :)

Did we ever actually determine for sure if the magic acc merits actually work for Enspells?

One of my lingering questions from the Olden Days.

Yeah, Bio III was nice at 75 when the total damage was comparable to one of your nukes for a fraction of the MP cost.. now that we have tier IV and tripled Refresh capability, it's just a wasted cast.

The Rules:
-Merit Convert 5/5
-Merit Slow2 at least once
-Don't merit Bio3 unless you plan to go 5/5
-Don't merit Paralyze2 unless you plan to 4/5 or (preferably) 5/5
-Don't merit Blind2

I'd like to dismiss Phalanx2 and non-Ice merits, but there are probably enough niche arguments out there to prove me wrong.

Dia3 is the unique one; no rules behind it.
There are beautifully solid reasons to merit it 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, 5/5, and even 0/5.

Edited, Aug 30th 2011 2:51am by IcookPizza

Oops, a daisy.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:27am by IcookPizza

Meh, I might as well make use of this accidental double-post (guess it's triple-post, at this point).

The first thing I merited was 1/5 Dia II, with the intent of deleting it after capping all of my other merits. Definitely clever, though I'm sure other RDMs had thought of it before me.

Edited, Aug 27th 2011 1:46am by IcookPizza

Regarding 1/5 Paralyze2:Casting SIX TIMES the MP for an inconclusively "5% better" Paralyze doesn't sound like something I'd spend three merit points on.

I wanna say those three merit points are better spent elsewhere, but maybe Abyssea buffs have closed this canyon of a gap I'm imagining.

Edited, Aug 28th 2011 3:45am by IcookPizza

Wait, there wast testing done on Paralyze? Link me.

para is inconsistent anyway, in fact I still use para 1 most of the time, and now with saboteur i can't really find a good reason to get para II at all. Infact outside of Dia III, and the utility Bio III offers our G2 merits are pretty sh*tty.

seems sh*tty too.

3/5 wind- useless
2/5 earth- useless

if you dont want/need convert go 5/5 wind or earth, but really who doesn't merit convert

3 slow - only need 1
1 phalanx II, why?
1 blind, why?
2 bio 5/5 or don't merit it.

Here is/was my reasoning.

My initial plan was 3 slow II/3 para II when it was only 6 merits.

I initially got para and was disappointed. Given my playing style, mostly solo/duo melee, ice spikes is a much better option for para.

So, I went with my plan and put 2 into Slow II. I stopped after I realized that I didn't need more than one, but really didn't know where else to put it. My philosophy is everything else pretty much sucked and at least I know slow will benefit from it.

I only got one phalanx II because as I said before, if SE wants us to be a buffer class, then it needs to better set us up as such. Otherwise, I'm not going into a "Pink Mage" of buffs, creating cycles of 2-3 spells.

1 phalanx II merit gives you phalanx which is better than nothing, if you want better, then ask a scholar or SMN. As I said, I'm a solo/duo melee person, so I'm not going to put my merits into a spell that I'll probably wont use as much.

Dia III was a given, with the TP burns and all.

I had no intentions of ever getting blind, but that's when I learned that you didn't need to be maxed on slow II, so I ended up getting blind II for ish and giggles, but ended up using it in solo play. BLind II > Blind.

After the update to 10, I put one more in dia because 30 seconds outside of TP burns is a waste, one minute is manageable. Then I put 2 in Bio III for solo play. Bio III > Bio II and if you don't have any MP problems, 1 min recast is nothing.

Then I put my final one in Slow II. Even though it isn't necessary, it's the "Fynlar laziness" concept. I would rather have my spell good enough to where I don't have to worry about gear selection.



Edited, Aug 31st 2011 12:11pm by Almalieque

The thing is, regular mobs is when I would use ice spikes. I need para II to work when I'm in the back row, not the front row. Slow II is one of the few enfeebles that you're almost guaranteed to get off, that's why I still put my merits in slow II.

Thats stupid, the difference between 1/5 Slow 2 and 3/5 Slow 2 is neglible, and only shows up on paper, you will never notice a fraction of a second difference at all, and if you say you can you are full of sh*t.

As for Ice Spikes, they are only useful solo, because you are never going to have hate in a group consistently enough to have the effect be consistently reapplied. Casting Para on a mob in a group is better than Ice Spikes, and Para II at 1/5 is a wasted merit as effect for MP cost at this point has Para 1 being more efficient.

Bio 3 is only better at 5/5 in terms of DMG/MP value, the only benefit you get over Bio II here is and extra 5% ATK down. As for MP problems, you must run into them all the time, or have never actually fought anything of real merit, because all this extra wasted MP you throw out.


Your merit layout is bad, and your reasoning for it is flawed. As someone who actually does a lot of low man and solo work, I can tell you right now you don't have the MP to support the spells you claim to use, mostly because your Group 1 merits are absolutely laughable.

Your damage must suck as a melee RDM if you are wearing MP atmas, getting a BRD to give MP buffs and refresh gear. LOL. You are full of sh*t, I doubt you have even succeeded in soloing trash mobs for gold chests let alone anything of real value. Why don't you take the two useless points from slow II and put them in Bio III, and then tae 1 from dia and stick it there too. Wear DD atma's and have your BRD sing useful buffs.





Oh somebody getting upset. Although the same could easily be said about you. But then again one of us actually knows what they are talking about, and its not you.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 11:39am by rdmcandie

well considering earth and wind merits were useless at 75 cap, it goes without saying they are useless now.

Well obviously you know nothing about RDM melee solo. It's not about dealing damage, it's about outliving your opponent. I don't have MP atmaS. Only one, the rest are usually defense related. With the proper haste build up, enspell, capped sword with full merits, you don't worry about attack, but defense to stay alive. Now, if the mob is so lol that dying is of really no concern, then by all means, go on the offense.

As I said, you're nothing but a troll.

FFXI is all about +1, so therefore those two merits for slow are not useless and the brd is not always casting ballad, mostly acc and atk. I merely stated that he can if there were a need for MP, just to show you that MP is not a problem.



Says the guy who told me to get DD atmas... LOL..



Read above. I AM NOT WEARING MP ATMAS, I'm wearing ONE for refresh and I'm not soloing in Abyssea, only outside of Abyssea. Inside is duo with brd. I was never in need for convert nor would I ever convert tank/meleeing a mob. I know it can be done, because I have before and seen others do it, but it's just not worth the risk. If MP is starting to get low, I switch out to MP gear, get ballad and withold on spells like blind II until I'm back ready again.



How is he good at it if he's arguing with the only person who agrees with him in a thread? He called me retarded for AGREEING WITH HIM.That's horrible trolling. On the other hand, I'm not trolling at all, I mainly just only partake in threads where I'm the opposition or else it isn't fun. The difference is, I'm not just making stuff up just to argue.

Gloating? I was told that I didn't know my information. I defended myself by demonstrating that the same thing was said about RDM melee and here we are today at a complete 180 on the opinion of RDM melee.

That's just ONE example.

My merits suck? The RDM merits in general suck. I shouldn't have to dump half of my merits into a spell just to make it "worthwhile" to cast. Blind II doesn't overwrite NIN (If I"m not mistaken). Phalanx is already available through other jobs. I mean the whole line up is crappy. So, for you to pretend that one set up is so much worse than another, while completely ignoring the difference in gameplay scenarios is just silly

Just because I chose not to be a cookie cutter RDM doesn't make me wrong. Just like how I wasn't afraid to be different about RDM melee in 2003, I'm not afraid or concerned about being different with these merits today.

Being different doesn't necessarily make you right, either.

Alma has a point here, RDM solo is not RDM group, the atma's would be different. RDM Group I use VV / RR / Apoc, MP is rarely an issue with AF+2 legs and Refresh, also I idle in my +2 body and relic hat. That being said, his merit choices are somewhat ..~huh~ worthy.

Mine are,

Convert 5/5
Ice Acc 5/5

Was originally
Convert 3/5 (9min flat timer)
Ice Acc 5/5
Wnd Acc 2/5

But since SE made most NM's immune to gravity, and I can land Silence / Gravity on any NQ monster practically naked, I just changed merits.
Ice acc are natural for Blizzard nukes and enblizzard melee. Para / Bind aren't as useful as they used to be though. I've been seriously debating switching to 5/5 Earth just for Slow II and Break, but don't know if that would be wise.

Tier II

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 5/5

Was originally

Slow II 5/5
Dia III 2/5
Phalanx II 3/5

Once PLD's native Phalanx was stronger then our Phalanx II I removed merits from it. I don't participate in any activity that requires me to use ST Phalanx II where I couldn't use Accession Phalanx. I then dumped the merits into Dia III to extend it's duration, nothing else worth while. I've already said how SE has given most NM's a flat reduction to the potency of Paralyze, and anything weaker doesn't live long enough to justify Para II over the 6mp Paralyze. Bio III I have a deep rooted hatred for due to 5/5 Bio III RDM's randomly casting it and ruining my Dia III per-zerg prep. I've since moved Dia III from a "per-zerg" spell to a "full time" spell, basically its the first spell out when a fight begins, second being Slow II. I love Slow II, practically nothing resists it and few NM's have a flat potency reduction to it.

Anyhow, Merit choices are a YMMV type thing.

So you think that the only thing you waste when meriting the wrong things is merit points?

Besides, with any sort of decent gear you are already capping Slow II potency against most targets with 1 merit, and 4 M.ACC for spells that already have high innate accuracy, combined with the amount of M.ACC we get from the gear you'd be casting them in.. both are completely worthless; as in, having zero effect, and not doing a damn thing for you.

So yes, I'd definitely call that a waste when I could merit something else that would at least have an effect on my character.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 4:47pm by LyltiaofLakshmi

Dude, it's all about the defense. I have *some* gear in macros and I know that I'm lacking in that area, but the whole point is, if I can get the same effect in my defense gear by merits and not have to swap gear, WTF would I swap?

You're just proving my point on the cookie cutter. If it's soooo easy to cap Slow II, then why swap, unless that is, you need some extra M.Acc to push you to that hump?

Edit: It's either one or the other, choose a side and stick with it.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 11:07pm by Almalieque

Why wouldn't you gear swap?