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Abbysean DA/TA build worth it?Follow

#1 Jun 01 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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I'm still sitting on that trial path and have been mulling it over for a while as to what to do with it.

I've noticed that Red Mage can build approximately +21 Double attack on their own without Atmas. (DA+10 sword, Atheling Mantle, +2 DA on body and leg Add on pieces, Brutal Earring)Then Atma of Apoc and VV would tack on 15% triple attack plus another 5% double attack.

This would essentially give us a 41% chance to attack more than once, and a 15% of attacking 3 times, on each weapon, and in Weapon Skills.(Subbing warrior would add Fencer and another 10% DA if desired.)

The cost, however, is that it involves tanking hits in accuracy in the Add on gear such as legs and body (and a hit on haste in the absence of Goliard Saio.)It would also pretty much sacrifice any 'occasionally attacks' weapons for this to work.

What I'm wondering is, considering the chance of Double Attack/Tripple attack function on both of the higher damage weapons (Almace/Bladelair+2 for main hand or high damage dagger assumed.) that it would outweigh perhaps a shift in food choice (if necessary) to accommodate the loss of accuracy.

This would also be Abyssea specific, however. (I'll likely offhand Joyeuse outside abyssea and swap body with Goliard.)

In the end I'm wondering if this would be a viable build, and what sort of accuracy changes I could make in a standard TP build to accommodate for it (as well as the loss of accuracy on the legs outside of Abyssea.)

I've been away from the game for quite a while so I was fishing for some feedback, especially from Seriha and Zafire.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 6:48pm by Hyrist
#2 Jun 01 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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Razed, Apoc, Gnarled or Alpha/Omega or Sang Scythe (favoring the last 2 over GH after the crit damage update), I previously and always will advocate the use of elemental shamshirs over DA khanda unless you're capping attack/accuracy without one (which is still possible), if you can hit 24% haste without body (need+2 dusk I believe or V belt) can use add-on body with dual wield augment, shifting offhand is more favorable over going from curry buns to pizza if you cap with offhand, if not pizza and str sword is a good option, or offhand Chimeric.
#3 Jun 02 2011 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
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DA is the way to go currently, it boosts or TP gains, it boost o DoT dealt, and increase our WSD. The ACC loss is going to be very very minimal almost to the point it isn't even worth bringing up in discussion. Razed Ruin + Composure pretty much over caps us on nearly everything, except for some of the higher tier NM (atwhich point its moot since we likely won't melee on those for any real amount of time).

/WAR is also a viable build. You get pretty much a face value of 25% damage increase (factoring in of course the 60% effectiveness of berserks timer, as well as the 10% effectiveness of Warcry). In addition to this you also get Aggressor which allows you wiggle room to adjust gear for more ATK, Haste, DA/TA what have you. Depending on that you could see a larger than 25% increase from /WAR, oh and then of course there is fencer which is a free 5% crit rate, and allows use of sentinel shield for an additional 1% haste to help off set the loss of the G.Saio a bit.

now the value of worth is a totally subjective answer, while on paper the damage output is going to be tops, this applies only to being inside abyssea, outside of abyssea we have ACC issues out of the gate, we can't get TA and DA via atmas, Crit rate drops, damage drops, enspells significantly rise as a portion our DPS and once again Multihit weapons pull ahead. The of course there is the small issue with RDM melee in general in that it has no native access to any desirable Sword WS, and no really awesome dagger (twilight knife aside). To me it isn't worth it, nothing in abyssea really has been, outside of CDC, although outside of abyssea without Atma, we are so far behind in melee its astonishing SE even lets us maintain sword/dagger skills at all.

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#4 Jun 02 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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rdmcandie wrote:
Posting from empty tequila bottle,


Not very sure what the fretting is about here.

Most outside Abyssea content is either older content, in which our level difference has made up for most of our stat deficiencies already, or []NM content in which our magic side is levied to begin with. And, to face reality, to catch up on the gear I want both in upgrades and in my Emperyan set... I'm gonna be in Abyssea a while.

Yes I want more gear and support for our Melee side, yes I believe our gear is horrendously behind. But arguments for participation of Melee now that the majority of content nowadays can be done low man or with a party just doesn't seem to be as heated, so I'm not all concerned.

But I would like to still preform well, both in and out of Abyssea. So I'm wondering if this build is mailable enough for me to just make simple gear/food adjustments to aid me with content of moderate difficulty outside Abyssea, and if so, what would be good suggestions as to upgrades that keep the (17) lost accuracy in check.
#5 Jun 02 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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In all honesty you are not going to notice the 17 missing ACC in abyssea, and if it you do it will be in the 1-2% range, which is minimal for the damage potential you gain. To be perfectly frank its not even worth fretting over. **** back in the days of 75 cap big DD's seldm had capped ACC and were in the 85-90 range more often then not. There is no reason a RDM can not follow the same suit now, especially in abyssea where we are pretty capable DD's. But if capped ACC is simply something you must have, then you could always eat Pizza and cap it that way, or /WAR and come out almost dead even with what /NIN gives you overall, and maybe even slightly ahead because /WAR stacks significantly better into our WS's than /NIN does, and inside abyssea with Enspell damage falling off into the ream of neglible, and WS's on our end rising to the level of average, there is a dramatic shift in the weight of our damage dealing, from the old line of thought of maximizing dot (such was the popularity of J/J) or being forced to use B/J to gain access to a respectable WS. We can now do very well with vorpal at the limited cost to our dot (via multi enspells) /WAR.

On your remarks regarding Outside of abyssea, it is true that the vast majority is a joke, mostly because of our advanced levels etc, but really RDM melee outside abyssea has not advanced much, if any at all, we have a higher ACC rating, and native ATK from skill, but all that means is we are able to hit and damage mobs more efficiently. We do not have any wicked new tools like other DD's such as WAR, or even DNC. Our casting side has been the side that has seen the most buffs, and ever since SCH RDM has been quite capable of being part of a nuking team on these mobs, even at the T3 level.

Outside of Abyssea RDM has fallen far behind not only big DD, but the jobs that we should be close to in parity (BLU/DNC). BLU hasn't received to to much in the way of updates, but they do have access to some nifty tricks, that allow them subjob versatility, they can set DW and /THF or /WAR. All be it the DW is of a low trait, the bonuses offered from these subs certainly have added value when combined with the fact they also drastically increase their casting damage output at the same time. DNC i think is pretty self explanatory, it has gone from meh...we could u haste samba, to being in the top 3 non 2H dd. (MNK I consider a 2H DD in this regard.)

For inside Abyssea it is totally worth the effort to build a nice DA/TA based set, subjob choice is up to you, there are advantages on either side but pretty much is down to WAR or NIN (which in the end will likely end up being about even in abyssea). Outside of abyssea however, even in old content we are drastically falling behind, and DA/TA will work, but not nearly be as effective, and Multi hit weapons will once again be the mainstay of a RDM melee set.

(as for the tequila thing, its not a bad thing, it just states im either drunk, getting drunk, or high (see the rest about the joint) usually anytime i frequent these boards).

Personally (if I cared at all to advance my RDM melee set, but why bother when I have a DNC that does it better and is almost just as fun to play on) I would forgo getting the DA+ weapons, and focus on getting the top tier MA weapons. If the pattern of RDM is to continue the same as it has done in the past, we can expect to see more melee gear then mage gear in the next few updates, as well as some additional tools that help us stay on the front better and increase our damage potential. Until that happens however my observation is based on where we currently stand, and unfortunately outside of abyssea, even with the increased levels RDM melee is the worst it has been since we though EXPing on Crabs and Beetles was a good idea.




Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 3:53pm by rdmcandie
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#6 Jun 02 2011 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not all that worried in that aspect, honestly. I work with a very tight knit group and they're really not overtly worried about how high my individual damage output is, because we do a lot of teamwork and me opening skillchains is a boon for them, especially when I can burst on the aftermath (which boosts to our nuking side aid.) So outside of abyssea I'd likely just offhand Joyeuse and focus on accuracy/haste more.

But I'm having difficulty looking around for upgrades as many of my sources for info are now kinda dated. I might have to contribute to the RDM gear lists in Gamerscape, they don't seem to be updated past 75 at all.
#7 Jun 02 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Well id suggest getting the CDC (if you don't have already), and one of the other Multihit weapons. If you have a large amount of free time then worry about the DA. (optimally it is totally worth getting one) To be perfectly frank the overall DPS change is going to be pretty minor anyway. Joyeuse still gets benefit from the DA you would equip via gear/atma, all be it at a "reduced" amount a Joy combined with Alamace will actually still slightly eek out an advantage in TP gain rate (based on Delay and Number of Hits/Round), where as the CDC+DA will edge ahead in terms of sheer damage overall, and have a small advantage in the number of hits on a WS.

In the end the difference you are really talking about is maybe 3~5% on average, and varies greatly on randomness of crits, and ability or inability to use TP at exactly 100% TP.



Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 6:03pm by rdmcandie

Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 6:04pm by rdmcandie
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#8 Jun 02 2011 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I am planning on getting the Badelaire +2 hands down. That's a given.

But debating between the multi-hit sword and the Double Attack +10 Sword is the issue here.

As they weapons stand, either of them only barely out-stretches or undercuts Joyeuse, and honestly as I said before, Khanda is just more for fun for me right now anyways. Going DA in Abyssea would be an interesting change, especially for Abyssea and what I can stack up.

I intend on having a wide collection of swords (and some daggers) for my RDM anyways. It being the only job I hold interest in, I've got the storage space. Though, I've got to learn to carry my junk more in my sack and satchel more than in my actual inventory.
#9 Jun 02 2011 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes both the Kahnda and DA weapon are only a slight bit better than the joyeuse, currently. If SE extends these trials more tiers that could change things, it wasn't until Kahnda went 2-4 that it passed the joyeuse, and I think that it was concluded to be only a 1-2% edge over it in the end.

If you plan to have a bunch of swords why not just make them all then? Ii don't really get what the discussion is about now if you planned to have a plethora of options anyway, so I am going to wish you luck and respectfully bow out of this conversation.

(also Hi2U Karma camper!)

Edited, Jun 2nd 2011 9:10pm by rdmcandie
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#10 Jun 02 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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The issue with Khanda +2, is that it's marked "Rare", meaning I can only have one in the entire category. So essentially, once I finish the first trial on this particular path, I'm dedicated to it, unless I care to start again by tossing the one I got.

Also, the gear surrounding it becomes a concern. Not that they can't be redone, but this involves taking DA in both ACP and ASA pieces over accuracy. A lesser loss, mind you, but a loss of time never or less. Honestly, I'm still waiting on more varied feedback on this to make the decision but I am leaning heavily towards the DA path, JUST to have a sword that isn't the same bread and butter Multihit tactic as before.

#11 Jun 02 2011 at 11:39 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
DA is the way to go currently, it boosts or TP gains, it boost o DoT dealt, and increase our WSD. The ACC loss is going to be very very minimal almost to the point it isn't even worth bringing up in discussion. Razed Ruin + Composure pretty much over caps us on nearly everything, except for some of the higher tier NM (atwhich point its moot since we likely won't melee on those for any real amount of time)


I dont agree. RR + Composure is 40 ACC. A nice chunk, but not enough alone. We still need to be eating ACC food.

Personally, I would never consider a set built for raw melee damage, because thats not what we do best. My "DD" set is a PDT/MDT hybrid build, because that is what we do best.

That said, if I were to make a damage set, I wouldnt trade any haste for DA.
#12 Jun 03 2011 at 1:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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K1n371x wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
DA is the way to go currently, it boosts or TP gains, it boost o DoT dealt, and increase our WSD. The ACC loss is going to be very very minimal almost to the point it isn't even worth bringing up in discussion. Razed Ruin + Composure pretty much over caps us on nearly everything, except for some of the higher tier NM (atwhich point its moot since we likely won't melee on those for any real amount of time)


I dont agree. RR + Composure is 40 ACC. A nice chunk, but not enough alone. We still need to be eating ACC food.

Personally, I would never consider a set built for raw melee damage, because thats not what we do best. My "DD" set is a PDT/MDT hybrid build, because that is what we do best.

That said, if I were to make a damage set, I wouldnt trade any haste for DA.



Speaking technically. I'm not, unless you're including Goliard Saio, which is comparable to the ACP body's Dual Weild enhancement either with accuracy or with Double Attack assisting it. That only looses steam if I go /war instead of /nin. It won't help my TP building, but that's part of the reason to go double attack in the same piece of gear.

The issue is the loss of accuracy, 17 accuracy specifically (10 for ACP body, 7 for ASA legs.) And he's right, RR alone makes up for that and then some. I'm not sure if it allows for the foregoing of accuracy food all together, but remember Pizza caps off at +40 Acc itself (at 400 base accuracy.) I've been gone a while and I by no means am capped on my sword, so that's a measurement in Abyssea I'll have to test out once I'm capped again, as well as having the proper Atmas and abyssites. In the end, these are long term goals. I've a lot of catching up to do.

Also, you're referring to a Tanking set, not a Melee set. Typically, I've a dancer with me when I'm using my more melee orientated set, or I'm part of a small group. PDT/MDT set is an entirely separate set with an entirely different purpose.

I've been gone a while, but it's a given that I'm a very heavy enthusiast at utilizing all parts of a Red Mage, that includes some of our Melee DD aspects, as well as tanking. It is the only job I play so I push exploration into the full depth of the job's performance, rather than investing time/gil/merits into multiple jobs. It's a highly uncommon playstyle, but no other job has managed to catch interest with me for very long like Red Mage has.
#13 Jun 03 2011 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Personally, I would never consider a set built for raw melee damage, because thats not what we do best. My "DD" set is a PDT/MDT hybrid build, because that is what we do best.


This would be why you need ACC food. Abyssea increases our hit rate by +27.5% for putting on the buffs and RR. (a total of +90 dex.) If you are not capping ACC this means your Hit rate is god awful terrible to begin with. Add in the 7.5% from composure and you have a total of +35% hit rate before you have even touched sword/dagger skill, and ACC gear in your melee set, natural dex, and dex on gear.

This means you could have a hit rate of 60% before even looking at anything else outside of buffs, and still cap your ACC.

Add in a couple things I can think of of the top of my head.

Woodsman ring 2.5%
PCC 5%
Suppa (with sword) 2%

that is another 9.5% Hit rate from 3 items which don't need to be replaced. Meaning you now need a naked land rate of 51.5% to cap.

There is no reason to not be eating meat (or curry) because you are going to be capped ACC in nearly every encounter, with a fall off on NM's to a degree that is accepted by the community. If it is Ok for a WAR to eat meat and parse 85-90% ACC on an NM then it is ok for a RDM to do the exact same thing. For everything else you are likely going to be capped or close to cap nearly always.

Quote:
Melee Damage Player Melee Melee % Hit/Miss M.Acc% M.Low/Hi M.Avg #Crit C.Low/Hi C.Avg Crit% xxxxxxxxxxxxx 14672 32.14% 344/61 84.94% 14/60 38.18 39 54/109 77.62 11.34 % Mageoholic 67666 44.52 % 1701/267 86.43% 0/114 37.1 128 42/151 71.71 7.52 % yyyyy 39881 30.80% 826/171 82.85% 0/74 44.34 68 63/133 92.25 8.23 %


This is a snipit of a parse I posted a long time ago. It does not have RR Atma, and LVL cap was 85.

Gear set was.

Blau/Joy/-/Tsting
Walmart/Spectacles/Coral/Coral
Goliard/Dusk/Woodsman/Woodsman
Ammets+1/Headlong/Venodors/Dusk

Total ACC from that gear was 23.
Food eaten was Yellow Curry Bun. (all ive eaten since composure was released)

Add in RR Atma and I break the Cap, Add in the additional 30Dex available from buffs with atmacite and I am well over the cap.

There is no reason to eat ACC food.


Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 6:07am by rdmcandie

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 6:14am by rdmcandie
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#14 Jun 03 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you are missing in abyssea consistently you need to get your Furtherances and Razed Ruin.

Because between Razed Ruin's +25 acc, Composure's +15 acc, and the Cruor buff's +20-35 acc you really shouldn't be missing with +60-95 acc unless it's a super evasive monster which in that case you need to dispel or some higher tier NM which you shouldn't be building TP on in the first place or just some annoying NM like that fly which you should be nuking anyway.
#15 Jun 03 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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This was kinda what I mean by I'm behind the times and looking for insight.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/11958/calmecac-trousers

*stare* ... drool.

See this would work for that build I'm talking about, and accentuate further my questions on whether it was worth the gear shift...

Do waaaant...
#16 Jun 03 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Those were added less then a month ago.

I hardly call that being behind the times.
#17 Jun 03 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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I've been gone for over six months. So I had no idea when these came out.

Hell. I don't even know how to pop "!!"s yet.


Edit:
You know... thinking on this a bit.

I could go DW+3%, Acc +10 RR, then get the Calmecac trousers.

Have Goliard for Abyssea where Accuracy is fairly well covered by Atma and other buffs, wear the Reddingnote outside Abyssea to counter the -8 Acc on the trousers, and I'd only be down 15 instead of 17 total, with superior DA/TA than my previous assessment, and the stats should balance out, performance wise.

So yep, I've made mah decision. I'll work on it and in a year when I'm catching up to what's coming out then, I'll let you all know how it works out ;)



Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 3:37pm by Hyrist
#18 Jun 03 2011 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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rdmcandie wrote:
If you are not capping ACC this means your Hit rate is god awful terrible to begin with.


Thats just not true, man.

Consider the following:

80 Base DEX + 90 from RR/Cruor Buffs
351 Sword Skill (Capped Skill/Full Merits)
15 ACC from Composure

VS a level 95 mob with 390 EVA, that puts you at 88% hit rate. 7% is totally worth a pizza, or a gear slot. We still need a little bit.

Edited, Jun 4th 2011 1:11am by K1n371x
#19 Jun 03 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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If you are fighting a lvl 95 monster you are likely in a Hero's zone.

If you are in a hero's zone then you have an extra 30 dex which is an extra 15 accuracy which should bring you close enough to the cap; to justify meat over pizza.
#20 Jun 03 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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SlashAnonymous wrote:
If you are fighting a lvl 95 monster you are likely in a Hero's zone.


Not necessarily.

Quote:
If you are in a hero's zone then you have an extra 30 dex which is an extra 15 accuracy which should bring you close enough to the cap to justify meat over pizza.


You dont have to eat your ACC, you can wear a bit, and eat meat.

If you are soloing something, and you are throwing up composure only for buffs, youre gonna need a bit more there too.

All I'm saying is dont assume youre always capped vs anything other then EXP mobs, especially when the thread is about going all out melee damage on RDM.


Edited, Jun 4th 2011 1:32am by K1n371x
#21 Jun 04 2011 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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No matter how your slice it, given our gear and native skills/traits, ACC and ATK will always be a juggling act for us.
#22 Jun 04 2011 at 9:01 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
No matter how your slice it, given our gear and native skills/traits, ACC and ATK will always be a juggling act for us.


I'd love to see a new tier of enspells to address our attack issues somewhat, but magical damage per hit typically does make up for our DPS, provided the next tier is up to par. But as I say everywhere, it's going to have to regard the conflict with Sambas this time around.

But I tend to like to lean on the accuracy side of things.
#23 Jun 04 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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K1n371x wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
If you are not capping ACC this means your Hit rate is god awful terrible to begin with.


Thats just not true, man.

Consider the following:

80 Base DEX + 90 from RR/Cruor Buffs
351 Sword Skill (Capped Skill/Full Merits)
15 ACC from Composure

VS a level 95 mob with 390 EVA, that puts you at 88% hit rate. 7% is totally worth a pizza, or a gear slot. We still need a little bit.

Edited, Jun 4th 2011 1:11am by K1n371x


Yes 88% before you factor in gear at all. You need 14ACC to cap, be it from a combined +Skill (such as suppa) ACC on gear (hello PCC) Those 2 items alone is 14ACC 7% hit rate. Capped ACC, and we still havent touched any Dex on gear, or ACC on the other 14 gear slots.

You should not have to eat acc food at all you should be full timing attack food. In abyssea, all the time you are meleeing. There is no reason not to.
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#24 Jun 04 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Seriha wrote:
No matter how your slice it, given our gear and native skills/traits, ACC and ATK will always be a juggling act for us.


I'd love to see a new tier of enspells to address our attack issues somewhat, but magical damage per hit typically does make up for our DPS, provided the next tier is up to par. But as I say everywhere, it's going to have to regard the conflict with Sambas this time around.

But I tend to like to lean on the accuracy side of things.

I feel like "Sword Enhancement Spell Damage +" has been woefully under utilized. Aside from a handful of weapons and accessories, there's not much gear at all that boosts En-spell damage. It'd have been boss to see JSE pieces (or more armors in general) with "Sword Enhancement Spell Damage + 2/3/4/5," allowing RDM other means of contributing to damage without piling on ATK or +INT/MAtk gear for nukes. A more generous formula for En-spell tiers would be nice as well, without necessarily resorting to yet another "tier up" band-aid.

But of course, RDM is only allowed to deal damage on other classes' terms, not it's own.
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#25 Jun 04 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not opposed at all to gaining another tier on Enspells in order to fix some of the issues they currently have. As they stand, we have a choice of either a low level Enspell Damage that works with multi-hits, but conflicts with Dancer's sambas, befretting us of 5-10% attack speed, which is vastly superior to the damage output of our enspells. Or taking a severe hit in enspell damage output in order to be able to get that samba effect by limiting our enspell output to the first hit in a chain (with the output formula no only horrible, but the damage itself being sub par as well.)

It'd be easier to simply make a new set of spells that meet both the damage and the synergy crateria, and honesly, it'd feel appropriate at least for enspells to go one tier further than 2. (more appropriate than tier ups on enfeebles, honestly.)

As far as gear that enhances it. I would not mind more, and it's more than possible to see that in the future. However, I want merits in that department (as well as our melee aspect in general).
#26 Jun 06 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Much as I'd appreciate +Enspell gear, if it's not boasting comparable Haste to current sets, it's not going to compete. As is, the Fencer's Ring is **** to deal with in Abyssea and also requires a -HP set unless you wanna let a mob whack you for a bit. Things like the Lycopodium or Hollow earrings have a hard time competing with the Suppa/Brutal combo as is.

Just randomly mulling specifically on Enspells, something I'd like to see is a flat ATK boost based on the additional damage they'd do regardless of tier. Then there would be an additional effect that added the same amount.

Earth: -DT%
Water: +MACC
Wind: +Subtle Blow
Fire: +ATK
Ice: +MATK
Thunder: +Crit

This would give you some choice on what to use depending on the situation. If you're soloing, getting -21% DT from Enstone would be pretty nice, also as something to just keep on if you're sitting in the back for safety purposes. Enwater's probably the weakest of the choices since, at current, anything we'd be meleeing on shouldn't need too much of an MACC boost, but like with Enstone, it could be a bit of backline support on harder mobs that are resisty, but not immune. Enaero would be our go-to enspell on NMs, as gaining 21+ Subtle Blow (Plus SB from /NIN or /DNC) would curb the notorious TP feed argument. Now, if Enspell IIs were made not to suck, Enfire could grant a combined 70+ ATK, which is definitely something we could benefit from to up both or DoT and WS potential. Ice's MATK would be good for nuking or elemental WS, particularly if you have access to Sanguine. Enthunder would just be more icing on top of RR in Abyssea, but then once we step out, +21% crit rate would certainly help keep is contention while allowing those who do have CDC to make it more than just a Vorpal +1.
#27 Jun 06 2011 at 5:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow ya'll got some evil karma campers out there. Little bastards didn't even join the discussion, just following Hyrist around and spamming red arrow. Ohh well did what I could.

Hmm from my playing around I'd say that RDM definitely needs a gear update and balance out the WS distribution a little, we shouldn't need an Emperion weapon to get a decent sword WS. I'd like to see them boost enspells more, either modify the formula or introduce a new tier and make sure they do the calc on cast and not on strike.

Yeah inside Abyssea accuracy isn't an issue if your got the abyssites and RR, at the worst your talking Pizza+1 territory although I tend to use Bison steaks. Actually Hyrist I'd suggest you go +atk on the body rather then +acc. I know it sounds crazy but the way our skill has been scaling hitting the 40 cap on pizza is trivial if we even need it. Between composure / gear / crour (abyssea) I have an over abundance of acc and a severe lack of atk. BLU, NIN, DNC and THF's are already running into an attack problem due to how defense scales. Monsters 90 or higher should be having 350~400 defense which is turning into a nightmare to get anywhere near the cap on, especially once LCF is thrown in. The good rule of thumb I've made is 700 attack average is what you want to sit at.
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when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#28 Jun 06 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've been talking a while with people about what they'd agree Red Mage needs in order to be acceptable in front lines. And honestly, for so much of the talk of Utility, most of them just want us to have more raw attack. So that should most defiantly be noted to SE on that matter.

But as far as taking Attack on my build above Accuracy, I might give it a shot I'll have to see how it all pans out with the leg piece, which I'm pretty much just waiting for the price to drop on. Remember, the RR is going to be aimed primarily at outside of Abyssea where Accuracy is more prominent.

As far as netting 700 attack... that would be quite a goal.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 1:05pm by Hyrist
#29 Jun 06 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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Remember, the RR is going to be aimed primarily at outside of Abyssea where Accuracy is more prominent.


On currently a very limited number of mobs. (ones that we probably wouldn't be meleeing anyway.)
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#30 Jun 06 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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A lot of the attack issues could be easily solved by giving us Dia IV and V :D

(Holy **** karma campers, free round of greens for all)

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 2:54pm by SlashAnonymous
#31 Jun 06 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Its pretty gross, at first I thought it was the usual people hitting me, until I saw everyone getting red arrowed. I been trying to keep up the green arrows but its hard when im being bounced between yellow and blue every other post.


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A lot of the attack issues could be easily solved by giving us Dia IV and V :D


If they do this then I really want them to scroll our merits, and maybe put t4's in their place. Drop the levels on them to the mid to late 50's give us T3's for Slow Para Blind @ 75 with Bio III(its Dark magic) and phalanx staying. Put T4's + T5 Dia @ 99 merits with Break II and Addle II as other options.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 11:41pm by rdmcandie
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#32 Jun 06 2011 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Got a hunch it's some anti-melee/BG people I **** off on the official boards. After all, according to them, we're all retards.
#33 Jun 07 2011 at 5:05 AM Rating: Good
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Seriha wrote:
Got a hunch it's some anti-melee/BG people I **** off on the official boards. After all, according to them, we're all retards.



I'm anti-rdm-melee for most things, but i'll rate everyone up as theres isn't a single thing that warrants a red arrow in the thread.

rmc wrote:
(as for the tequila thing, its not a bad thing, it just states im either drunk, getting drunk, or high (see the rest about the joint) usually anytime i frequent these boards).


I concur, but its a shame the bottle of Tequila has to be empty, sounds a little negative or depressing - I hope theres another bottle of spirits around for after the empty bottle to carry on getting wasted.
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#34 Jun 07 2011 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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They've been visiting all the RDM threads lately, I've noticed several spats. /sigh I wish they would make it so that you have to post in a thread before you can red arrow, then at least everyone would know who they were rather then anon trolling everyone.
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the **** out of the way instead...
#35 Jun 07 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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I concur, but its a shame the bottle of Tequila has to be empty, sounds a little negative or depressing - I hope theres another bottle of spirits around for after the empty bottle to carry on getting wasted.
I play FFXI, obviously I have more booze.
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#36 Jun 08 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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I keep telling my 3.5 person friend static that if we're doing hero's nm's, to get them done earlier on in the night, but we still seem to end up doing the tougher mobs towards the end of the night which I keep telling them it isnt a good idea. Not only is my macro pressing slower, but I forget about JA's /DNC i'd usually use (just relying on my whm for cure) I have no chance at hitting stun, and generally play irratic (unless by that time I feel like i'm really 'in the zone'. The funny side is, we still seem to get the job done even with me tanking sub-parly due to intoxication.
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#37 Jun 08 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll for you to see those pants, hyrist. :3

To be honest though, there's not a lot of new melee gear for RDM. If you haven't seen the likes of the Zelus Tiara then that's an epic head piece for TPing in, but other than the double/triple attack pants you were drooling over already (and i was too!) then I don't think there's much else that I can point you towards. Just some other 'All Jobs' kinds of equips that a recentish thread covered. Otherwise yeah, everything else has been said well enough by others and i guess I JUST WANTED TO COMPLAIN A LITTLE. =D

Best of luck though. I love you and your RDM melee posts, but alas that much struggle isn't for me anymore. After the spell enmity nerf I dropped red mage entirely and leveled paladin and thief to 90. Scholar is next. I'm sure you see what I'm doing there.

Edit: Green arrows for everyone! I <3 you all.

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 3:15pm by Aiyl
#38Jajuzza, Posted: Jun 08 2011 at 2:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) /blu khanda +2 oa 2-4, haste gear, int/mab atma...sanguine in proper gear.
#39 Jun 08 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aiyl wrote:

Best of luck though. I love you and your RDM melee posts, but alas that much struggle isn't for me anymore. After the spell enmity nerf I dropped red mage entirely and leveled paladin and thief to 90. Scholar is next. I'm sure you see what I'm doing there.


I has a fan! <3

Yeah, in spite of the nerfs I'll never give up on RDM (without giving up on the game itself.) It was my first job and the only one that's kept my interest all of these years. Any jobs I take up will primarily be out of curiosity, or necessity for the new merit system they put into place (Heard rumor that they will benefit those with multiple jobs leveled >.<)

But there is SO MUCH in a Red Mage that can be enhanced and embraced, and enough gear sets for at least two jobs on its own. So I figure it's a worthwhile venture to just continually invest in Red Mage. I doubt I'll ever be done gearing it.

As far as the Zelus Taria. I've spotted it. It's a lot of work to get up to that NM. But I'll be after it once I'm caught up more on the basics.

Also, random bit. I've found a new love in Procing !! in Dynamis. Yey for massive drop rates!

Quote:
/blu khanda +2 oa 2-4, haste gear, int/mab atma...sanguine in proper gear.


No numbers or anything? Back up what you say man. Explain your experiences, what you target on average, what you enjoy about the set up, etc. Just listing the stats doesn't do anything for me, as I was already aware of that build as a possibility, but lack any feedback on it.

Edited, Jun 8th 2011 4:53pm by Hyrist
#40 Jun 08 2011 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just **** around with Cosmos/Minikin/Ultimate on BLU, I was able to break 2k as BLU/RDM. RDM's SB gear would be a little bit better in comparison, but you should figure around that much, if not more with Ascetic's Tonic up. Would be a lot better if we had a dark-based Enspell to crank up, as similar on DRK can yield 80+ a hit before decay.
#41 Jun 08 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eh. I'll eventually make a build for it, but the 2-4 Khanda has kinda lost its luster for me. We could likely break those numbers + addional DoT with the build I was mentioning earlier.

I do wish we got Sanguine Blade natively though, because you could play a bit more on the support line with that build subbing Scholar and still yeild good numbers.

Denying RDM EX weapon skills really does kind of aggrivate me. After so many years it dosen't seem to hold a point any more.
#42 Jun 08 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Eh. I'll eventually make a build for it, but the 2-4 Khanda has kinda lost its luster for me. We could likely break those numbers + addional DoT with the build I was mentioning earlier.

I do wish we got Sanguine Blade natively though, because you could play a bit more on the support line with that build subbing Scholar and still yeild good numbers.

Denying RDM EX weapon skills really does kind of aggrivate me. After so many years it dosen't seem to hold a point any more.



the 2-4 Khanda is atm the best SH weapon you could choose to use (Alamace/Mythic/Relics aside). But even saying that Its DMG value (ill look for thread in which it was discussed to death when I get home from work). is only a few % higher than a Joyeuse. Basically it comes down to "do you want to pour in the effort needed" for a weapon that is only marginally better then one you likely have or could easily get from a likely seldom camped NM. The only Way I could see the K2-4 being an end all be all is if SE added a new tier that either lowered the Delay or Added DMG, other wise it isn't going to be very appealing to someone with limited time, or concern over 3-4% (that only applies if you WS every time you get to 100%.) more damage.
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